UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

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dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

ronya posted:

higher ed is overwhelmingly consumed by the upper-middle class

Upper middle class makes up 35% of the population now?

# ¿ Jan 1, 2016 21:52

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:54

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Has our economy had an upgrade from "strong" to "strong and secure"? Happy days.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 09:21

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

EvilGenius posted:

Eh? Any particular reason?

According to the Telegraph people are littering because we have too much YOOMAN RIGHTS: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12066598/New-150-fines-for-litter-louts-who-think-it-is-their-human-right-to-drop-rubbish.html

NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:

Abusers with power tend to seek out women with fragile self esteem because the abusers power makes them feel privileged to receive attention and makes them easier to control.

Did you post that before or after seeing this "news story" in the Telegraph today: :nws:

Karen Danczuk's selfies. In pics: Ex-councillor posts revealing photos for her 68.4k Twitter followers :nws:

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 11:28

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:

If Labour somehow found a charismatic Blairite to lead them to the mythical centre, the Tories would have to move to the centre to combat them, and The Mail and The Sun don't want that.

Moving to the centre mostly means agreeing that the deficit is the most important problem facing the nation and that government has to make massive cuts to reduce the deficit. The centrist position is that the deficit is entirely structural and can't be recovered through growth or tax increases or monetary policy.

How do you meaningfully criticise Tory policy from that position, when they are just going to reply "there's no money left so we need to make cuts" and "Labour refuse to say where they would make cuts - they have no economic credibility"? I've seen that same debate play out hundreds of times over the last 6 years and nearly every time the Labour person is left gibbering a bunch of word-salad. Those are the two most important arguments in the current political debate and I don't see how a centrist Labour leader has an answer to either of them. At least none other than "I fully agree and the Labour party is going to cut 'out of control' NHS spending to create STRONG ECONOMY". But that's hardly going to pull the Tories towards the centre.

It just makes it easy for the Tories to win elections by announcing that they will spend more on the NHS than Labour because their business experience allows them to save �50 billion a year from efficiency savings ( :smuggo:

) and cutting the ~~scroungers~~ welfare budget. That has worked two times in a row now. Miliband got destroyed on NHS spending by the Tories because he couldn't come up with �8 billion within his self imposed fiscal limits without being prepared to do things like cut local government budgets by 70%.

The scope for the type of "kind-hearted" cuts or centre compatible tax increases that a centrist might propose in preference to Tory cuts has rapidly reduced since 2010 (most of that stuff has already been cut), while the debt has increased. In that context what does centrist Labour economic policy even look like now? Matching the Tories on welfare cuts and local government cuts and all the other cuts so that you can match their NHS spending? Putting up the basic rate of income tax? Serious privatisation? But again I don't see how any of the options would drag the Tories to the left.

Also it should be remembered that there are some areas where a centrist Labour opposition would attack the Tories from the right. In particular they have tended to do that over security/civil liberties/policing issues (see for example Cooper attacking May from the right over Abu Qatada).

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 15:48

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

TinTower posted:

The splitting of hairs over the age of consent and the dictionary definition of pedophilia is beneath you guys. Yes, it's legal (in certain circumstances) for a fifty year old to have sex with a seventeen year old. But it is still incredibly creepy as gently caress.

Also, the age of consent if you're in a position of trust � e.g. employer to employee � is 18, not 16.

I'm not sure I understand. So he's a pedophile on the inside but not on the outside? Could you illustrate this with a diagram?

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 15:57

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Fans posted:

"The gently caress are you talking about there's no money left. We're one of the richest countries in the world. I thought you said we were in a strong economy, you lying sack of poo poo."

You think Cameron ever goes within 100 meters of a TV camera without a copy of that loving note in one of his pockets?

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 16:09

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Who needs photoshop when �20 on ebay can get you one of these:

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 16:19

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Cash machine blown up in Long Ashton post office

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 12:44

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Angepain posted:

The trick is to wander off before they can even ask the question, rookie mistake

Or repeatedly refuse to answer the question and then claim that you have answered it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGa49rM6iM

A less favourable media would have spun this interview as Cameron admitting that he was blackmailed by a Saudi government that was threatening to blow up bombs over the UK.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 14:46

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

LemonDrizzle posted:

Who likes polls? We like polls!

You forgot to include this for some reason:

quote:

EU referendum poll:
Remain: 41% (-)
Leave: 42% (+1)
(via YouGov)

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 17:38

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

quote:

Best party to handle immigration:
UKIP: 29%
CON: 24%
LAB: 15%
LDEM: 5%
(via YouGov)

Clearly Labour need to adopt UKIP immigration policy. That's how this works isn't it?

Seems like pissflaps also overlooked the EU referendum poll for some reason

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 17:52

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

LemonDrizzle posted:

He started out with possibly the single most perfect issue with which to go after the Tories and push his anti-austerity narrative - they cut spending on flood defences heavily during the coalition and relaxed rural land use regulations in a way that increased the likelihood of severe flooding downstream - they literally helped to submerge northern England in order to save a few pennies and help their friends who own grouse moors. loving grouse moors! If they'd come out of the gates with a concerted attack on that issue, they could've been forcing the Tories to explain how saving a few quid and making sure that Tarquin and Jocasta can have a jolly good time blazing away at some dumb birds was more important than preventing York from flooding.

I agree but it's not a surprise and I don't think it's unique to Corbyn. The Labour party have always felt very uncomfortable talking about 'countryside' issues and especially anything that might upset landowners at all. They had long enough to seriously address these kinds of issues when in government, and there was no lack of people calling for them to do so. I think they probably would have done if they felt they had the political capital to do it. They had a hard enough time banning foxhunting, which was widely publicly supported. Even that was enough to get parliament flour bombed by rural terrorists.

There is a countryside variation of 'prolier-than-thou' and a lot of people on the left aren't prepared to stick their neck out over rural issues due to a fear of being labeled inauthentic and not 'real-country'. We all laughed at that tweet linked in here the other day but it's an amazingly effective argument when it comes to rural issues. The assumption that farmers and landowners know what they are talking about (and scientists and NGOs don't) and have our best interests at heart seems to be pretty deep rooted in British class culture. The people who don't think like that seem to be the ones that it's very hard to get interested in rural or land use issues at all and are probably already Labour or Green voters anyway. Another problem is that a lot of the issues relating to flooding intersect badly with a desire for more housing development, which has been a central plank of Labour economic policy for a number of years now. Policies that would have made housing development more difficult weren't what people wanted to hear.

There is a thing where some people on the left think that associating themselves with countryside pursuits enhances their proletariat credentials or makes them more authentic than urban ivory-tower Islington socialists, as if 'living off the land' was a thing that the modern day rural poor could actually do as an alternative to employment. If I had brought up banning driven grouse shooting in this thread last year there would have been opposition to the idea based on those kinds of arguments (I'm pretty sure at least one thread regular expressed support for it because it's a source of food and some people in the UK need to use foodbanks and therefore banning it would be an attack on the poor and hungry).

Some of these issues have already played out in the media last year over the Somerset floods. People blamed the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts and the Environment Agency for "putting wildlife before people", even though RSPB and WT reserves have prevented thousands of homes from being flooded in recent years. The government has used that same line this time. If you want to start talking about river catchment management and grouse moors you are going to have to accept getting absolutely slaughtered in the Telegraph etc. These kinds of policies are direct personal attacks on the hobbies of a lot of the right wing establishment including journalists, newspaper editors, judges, CEOs, newspaper owners etc. They will take it far more personally than just about any other policy a Labour leader is likely to propose. As a London dwelling urban Labour MP Corbyn lacks credibility on this issue, as does just about any other Labour MP for similar reasons. He would have been attacked mercilessly as an out of touch liberal urban city dweller who doesn't understand the countryside. The Tories will argue that more dredging of rivers and more drainage ditches is the answer and anybody who disagrees doesn't understand the countryside or is a looney lefty wildlife nutter who wants to put wildlife before people. The NFU, BASC, NGO, SGA, SLA etc all have plenty of very authentic sounding people ready to put on their flat caps and stand in a field talking to the BBC about Corbyn's lack of understanding of the countryside.

Having said all that I still think they should go in hard on the issue. I just don't think it's as easy a win as it seems at first glance. I'd like to be wrong though. Attack your opponents strengths and all that.

I'm not sure waiting is a good idea either. The news cycle tends to drop stories about floods pretty quickly. As soon as the dramatic pictures dry up the news coverage does too. The only exception to that in recent years was when the flooding happened to a bunch of wealthy well-connected landowners in the south of England. This bunch of floods have been so serious that they do have a decent chance of sticking around but it depends what else happens over the next few weeks.

dispatch_async fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 4, 2016

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 20:26

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Jeremy Corbyn�s �revenge reshuffle� claims its first victim... the press

quote:

Journalists reporting on Prime Minister�s Questions have frequently marvelled at The Corbyn Stare. This afternoon, they got to experience it for themselves.

Word had got out that the Labour leader was putting his so-called �revenge reshuffle� into action. Eager news hounds gathered in the stairwell near his parliamentary office.

The sight seemed to amuse the leader�s spin doctors. �It�s like a picket line out here,� chortled Kevin Slocombe, his spokesman. �We do like a picket line!� chimed in Seumas Milne, his director of communications. The two men shuffled off. The news hounds continued to wait.

Abruptly, the door at the top of the stairs swung open. Standing behind it, however, was not a grim-faced Hilary Benn, or a gloomy Maria Eagle. It was Jeremy Corbyn himself.

�Excuse me, guys,� he snapped, with the same headmasterly irritation he reserves for unruly Tories at PMQs. �Do you mind not hanging around outside my office?�

Silently the journalists glanced at each other, and then at their feet, as if they�d just been caught playing football in the school corridor. Although they didn�t dare meet it, they could feel The Corbyn Stare burning into them. Their cheeks prickled with shame.

�Could you all leave, please,� said the headmaster testily.

There was another silence. And then, still without a word, the children traipsed sheepishly down the stairs.

Shortly, a Labour underling was dispatched to stand guard over the stairwell.

It was a curious day. Those tipped for promotion went on TV and radio to insist that they were very happy in their current jobs, thank you, and it was all just speculation from the silly old media. Diane Abbott said she wasn�t thinking about anything other than her work as shadow international development secretary, which was �very important�.

But not as important as the work of a shadow foreign secretary, surely? �Well, I don�t know about that,� she said, as convincingly as she could manage.

Clive Lewis, meanwhile, was sure that it was much too early in his career for him to become shadow defence secretary � although if Mr Corbyn considered his promotion �essential�, he was prepared to �think about it�.

Mr Lewis � a firm supporter of Mr Corbyn � rejected the idea that Labour was at war with itself. At heart, he explained, Labour was �a family� � and wasn�t it normal for families to have �differences of opinion� over Christmas?

Possibly, although most families� festive rows tend not to end with Granny being demoted to uncle, or the dog being promoted to nanny.

Wes Streeting, a Labour moderate, complained that the reshuffle rumours were overshadowing the vital work that shadow ministers had been carrying out. He launched into a list of examples. �We had Michael Dugher talking about the gendering of children�s toys��

With any luck, we�ll be able to confirm the new shadow cabinet tomorrow. Provided, of course, that Mr Corbyn gives us permission.

The Telegraph also have a hilarious live blog where they keep posting about how nothing is happening and what that means: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12080687/Jeremy-Corbyn-begins-Labour-shadow-cabinet-revenge-reshuffle-live.html

quote:

News or no news?
Reports were swirling about 15 minutes ago that Corbyn�s team would be briefing out any announcements imminently, but those are being played down now.
In short, nobody knows when we might hear anything official � and if there is even anything official to be briefed as of yet. Could be tonight, could be tomorrow.
Confusion reigns.

Benn leaves Corbyn meeting - makes no comment

Silence descends
All quiet on the reshuffle front. Presumption is Corbyn and his team are putting in calls to those affected � but all the indications are this could go late into the night.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 20:46

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Noxville posted:

Eagle, Eagle and Falconer? Just what is with Jeremy Corbyn's sinister agenda against birds?

Somebody should send a warning to John Woodcock :ohdear:

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 22:58

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

ronya posted:

what the deprived really need: well-intended condescension

Tell us more about how people supporting renationalising the railways in polls is meaningless because they are too thick to understand that it would cost money

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 11:16

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Tesseraction posted:

The main complaint is donkey voters (I can't remember if this is the actual term or if I'm misremembering) who vote for the first candidate on the list regardless of who it actually is, which can be countered by randomising the list, but that can lead to problems with counting. Which could be sorted with digital voting records, but that can lead to problems of its own.

Isn't the solution to provide a 'None' option and always put it at the top of the ballot?

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 13:13

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Pissflaps posted:

What poo poo does the rest of the EU have to put up with from the UK?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCJ0-HEXzZA

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 13:16

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Realpolitik:

People talk about how polls show that the UK is a naturally centrist or centre right country and that Labour needs to adjust their platform to cater to voters. The polling numbers on immigration are worse for Labour than for any other policy area. Labour's immigration numbers have been terrible for years and years. If there is any area where Labour is alienating voters by being too far to the left it's over immigration and the EU. Labour's numbers on immigration make Corbyn's numbers look good in comparison.

Unlike things like austerity - where you could argue that the opposing case wasn't really being made in the media - the argument over immigration has been a loud and public one for a very long time. Pretty much every side of the argument has been run into the ground by this point. The idea that Labour just "isn't doing a good job communicating their message" doesn't convince me at all. Their numbers on immigration have been appalling over multiple party leaders and multiple responsible ministers who have come from all wings of the party. There is no new argument to be made that is going to win people over.

Other parties with pro-immigration and pro-EU platforms (Lib Dems, Greens) did very poorly in recent elections and continue to have awful results in the polls. Where is the mythical block of pro-EU and pro-immigration voters that Labour is going to pick up to make up for all the people that have turned to UKIP or the Tories because of Labour's immigration and EU policy? If they exist they aren't turning out to vote. If anything anti-immigration and anti-EU sentiment is stronger in the marginal seats that Labour would need to win to get into power. The pro-EU and pro-immigration vote is concentrated in urban Labour safe seats.

If Labour are serious about winning the next election they would campaign to leave the EU in the referendum. They also currently have the first leader in a long time who could campaign on the leave side with some amount of credibility. It won't happen because there are a lot of people in the Labour party who care more about the EU project and ideological purity than they do about keeping out the Tories in the UK.

:can:

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 13:38

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 15:58

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Apraxin posted:

Isn't that the picture that got Emily Thornberry booted from the shadow cabinet for 'elitism' a year or two back? What point is he trying to make with it?

Yes. Presumably he's signalling that Corbyn should adopt the Danifesto

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:03

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

The front page of the BBC has a giant story about the eastenders actress whos missing, the cricket, and a link to the reshuffle liveblog. Then in the lower sections, you have a mention about ministers getting a free vote, another link to the reshuffle blog and tim peakes spacewalk, then some sport.

EU vote is the top story:

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:18

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

Not on the homepage it isn't. You know, the thing most people go to.

Most people don't visit the top level BBC homepage for the news. I didn't even know they put news snippets on there. I've never seen anybody visit that page.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 17:26

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

Most people don't go to bbc.co.uk when visiting the bbc website?

Are you serious? Its like one of the most visited pages on the entire internet.

Yes I'm serious. I've never seen anybody visit the top level BBC homepage to view the news. They visit news.bbc.co.uk which has now moved to bbc.co.uk/news. That's the 'BBC News' site.

The site you are visiting is the homepage for the entire BBC online presence which includes TV, Radio, iPlayer, Travel, News, Lifestyle, Weather, Food, Sport. I'm not sure the ordering of stories in the various sections on that page is even based on any kind of editorial weighting. It may just be the newest items from each section of the entire BBC site.

You could argue that the homepage is a sign that the BBC News editorial team considers "Kick-start your 2016 diet with these delicious meal plans" or "Sound of 2016 countdown: Blossoms make shortlist" to be a more important news story than "IS video suspect thought to be Briton" or "School children rescued from flood bus" which don't feature at all. It's really that the top level homepage only ever has a few news stories on it and has a lot of the page dedicated to Sport, Food, Music, and iPlayer.

:goonsay:

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 18:01

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

Well thats confirmation bias for you.

The fact I've not seen people use that page is confirmation bias. The fact that it's not the homepage of the BBC News site is something that's obvious to anybody who has even a vague idea about what the BBC is and how it is organised.

Maybe a lot of people do use that page because they are more interested in cooking, travel and sport than political news stories about non-existent reshuffles (and who can blame them). That still doesn't mean that BBC News is leading with the EastEnders actress murder story on the BBC News website.

The EU vote was the first item on the last BBC News channel roundup at 5. IS video was second billing. Actress murder was 3rd. Reshuffle was 4th. The 6pm headlines will likely be the same if nothing significant happens before then.

The idea that what Corbyn is doing has knocked the EU vote story off the agenda is complete rubbish.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 18:19

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

Most people use that page because its the fastest thing to go to. If you look at the stats here http://bbc.co.uk.hypestat.com/

98% of the daily visitors to the bbc website visit the homepage. Only 0.65% of people visit news.bbc.co.uk. You cannot in good faith claim that the homepages choice of news stories has no impact on the people that view the website, since for 4.9 million of the sites 5 million unique visitors per day that is what they see.

new.bbc.co.uk is just a redirect to bbc.co.uk/news now. The only people visiting it are ones who have not updated their bookmarks in 5 years or however long it has been and possibly people directly visiting very old stories.

All visits to bbc.co.uk/news are counted as visits to bbc.co.uk because it's under the same domain. So it isn't showing what you think it's showing.

Also if true your stats would suggest that only 0.65% of visitors to the bbc ever actually read any of the news story articles. Which is ridiculous at face value.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2016 18:35

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

LemonDrizzle posted:

only been in his post for four months; I don't think anybody could reasonably judge his effectiveness in the post based on such a short tenure

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 10:02

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Cerv posted:

sadly we all will be getting hosed by continuing conservative government

Are you prepared to vote and campaign for a Labour party that promises tough immigration controls and an EU exit (the only way of achieving reduced immigration)? Only 15% of voters agree with Labour on immigration. Fifteen percent! Labour won't win another general election until they give up on an immigration policy that only the hardcore far left in the UK support.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:06

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

You can't say he's made things worse than the last leader when the last leader led the party to a crushing general election defeat, disastrous result in the Scottish parliament elections, was beaten by UKIP in the EU election and had multiple poor showings in local elections. Corbyn hasn't even achieved a quarter of Miliband's extensive record of failure.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:22

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

No, if he refuses to sack people for dissent for months then finally has to sack people after repeatedly being stabbed in the back, he's weak.

Was Blair weak for not sacking Gordon Brown?

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:27

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

serious gaylord posted:

Yes.

In that case it seems like a weak leader is an inevitability for a party with a broad base like Labour. Every Labour leader in the last 40+ years has been 'weak' by those standards so it's not particularly surprising to find that Corbyn is also weak.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:34

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

What do they think is actually going to happen here if Corbyn does step down? Do they think the members are going to reward them for this behaviour in the next leadership election? Do they think they can get away with holding a leadership election without letting the membership vote?

At least I'm enjoying the thought of McDonnell running for leader. The party is unmanageable in this state so we may as well have a laugh while it burns to the ground.

serious gaylord posted:

Whos taking pictures of these letters?

Seeing as it hasn't been folded I assume it was the author.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:49

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Tesseraction posted:

What has been leaked since they were sacked?

The "revenge resignations" I guess.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 13:55

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Noxville posted:

What is Labour's immigration policy?

In the mind of the public? This:

Not forgetting this helpful intervention by yet another of Blairs former speech writers in the run up to the 2010 GE: Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser

Cerv posted:

You're right.
Your campaign mug from from an election where Labour ran on a platform of restricting immigration and lost proves that the only way they could win in 2020 / 2025 is to run on a platform of restricting immigration and leaving the EU if that still exists and were in it.

Voters didn't trust Labour on immigration. It wasn't that they rejected "controls on immigration" it's that they didn't believe Labour would actually do it.

In March 2015 only 20% of peopel thought that Labour would actually try to reduce immigration. The number of people who thought they would be successful at doing that was even lower:

A lot of Labor voters are opposed to immigration:

To win a general election Labour needs to take votes from the Tories and/or UKIP. It won't do that without shifting to the right on immigration. It's the policy area that Labour polls worst in. It's not an issue that they can ignore like they did in the past. It's a central issue now and one that the public feels so strongly about that 3.8 million people voted for candidates representing a shambolic third party that they knew had virtually no chance of winning just to express their anger at immigration. The rise of UKIP cost Labour vital marginal seats

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/23/labour-win-working-class-voters-ukip

quote:

We announced 106 target seats in 2013, the crucial majority of which were Conservative-held constituencies in England and Wales. To take these 85 seats, Labour needed an average swing from the Tories to us of 3.5% � higher in some seats such as Rugby, lower in others like Sherwood.

In the event, in these constituencies there was an average swing of 1.4% away from us to the Tories. A dreadful result on the night which meant we won only 10 of the 85 seats � little better than one in 10.

A big part of the problem was Ukip. In these 85 constituencies, Ukip was a minor player in 2010, polling fewer than 125,000 votes in total. This time was different. Ukip won over half a million votes, and added 10 percentage points to their average vote share.

In Labour seats where we suffered painful losses this was even starker � in Morley and Outwood, Ukip were up 13 percentage points, and in Corby they went from a standing start in 2010 to take 14% of the vote.

In two-thirds of the target seats we failed to take, the Ukip vote was greater than the Tory majority. And in constituencies where Ukip got a high share of the vote, the Tory to Labour swing was markedly weaker.

The findings of Labours own post election focus groups of ex labour voters was pretty stark:

quote:

Immigration is the topic that, left to their own devices, the respondents would have talked about all night. Their central arguments, across all groups and repeated frequently, were along the lines that our country is full, our country is broke and public services are creaking and cannot stand extra strain; there aren�t enough jobs for everyone; there aren�t enough houses for everyone now, let alone if more people come to live here.

many believed that immigrants came here for a life either living on our over-generous benefits or to use our NHS. Which was quite simply unfair as far as the group attendees were concerned. It went against their principles of contribution, of paying in before taking out, and it wasn�t deserved.

Seven Labour candidates who lost wrote an open letter to the party:

quote:

The campaign, the authors claim, addressed only �the needy and greedy�, leaving the rest ignored. The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, �sounding as if it was on the side of those that don�t work�.

Labour, they say, was �frightened to enter the difficult conversations on immigration, leaving those discussions to go on without the Labour party�.

The seven also suggest Labour needs not just to regain economic credibility but to rethink its approach to immigration, advocating a shift from free to fair movement of labour within the EU.

More post election polling: http://labourlist.org/2015/08/labour-has-to-stop-patronising-socially-conservative-voters/

quote:

Overall it is UKIP that has benefited from Labour�s collapse among socially conservative voters. In 2005 UKIPs vote share among Settlers was 4 per cent, but by 2015 this had increased to 24 per cent, only 2 per behind Labour. Settlers are twice as likely to be from socio-economic groups DE as AB. And so to an electorally significant degree the collapse of Labour�s socially conservative Settler vote can be seen as the collapse of its traditional working class base, that was once tribally loyal to the party.

In our research we asked voters the main reason they chose the party they voted for in the 2015 election. Socially conservative Settlers were more likely than other values groups to mention immigration, toughness on welfare, standing up for our country, Europe (either a referendum or pulling out) and fiscal responsibility.

Amongst these voters 79 per cent consider immigration as the most important issue facing the country. Amongst voters generally there are three main anxieties about immigration. First, the competition on jobs and wages, second the impact on services and provision such as housing and welfare, and third the loss of culture and community. Among the socially conservative Settlers the second and third of these are the most potent.

I don't like any of this, but I'm finding it difficult to continue fooling myself that the immigration issue is just going to go away for Labour.

People who want Labour to boot out Corbyn and move to the right to capture votes need to accept that immigration policy (and by extension EU policy) is one of the biggest things that would need to change. If you aren't campaigning for restricting free movement in the EU then you aren't a 'centrist' in the current political climate and you aren't going to recapture the voters that Labour lost to the Tories and UKIP.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 15:57

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Kokoro Wish posted:

Yes, because immigration is the only (or even a major contributing factor in) policy and what decides a party winning an election.

Among the specific groups of people that previously voted Labour but are now voting for other parties immigration is the most important issue. Which is backed up by the fact that a lot of them started voting for UKIP, a party that's basically a single issue party.

feedmegin posted:

Also, you can't out-UKIP UKIP. If someone does feel strongly enough about immigration that they're going to vote for a party based on how horrible it is to immigrants, they're always going to vote for the real thing populated by people who feel like they do, not the party that's said 'that's totally how we feel too guys' in order to get more votes. People distrust politicians for their lack of principles enough already (excepting Corbyn, note - he polls pretty well for 'this guy actually stands for something' and voters seem to like that).

Fans posted:

That's kind of the problem though. Anyone who's that one note on immigration was never going to vote for labour anyway. Know who does vote for Labour? Immigrants. They really don't want to lose that vote.

A lot of them used to vote Labour though. I mean it was probably out of lack of choice, but they were the voters that got Labour into power. I agree about not being able to out-UKIP UKIP, but if those votes are gone for good then Labour is probably hosed for a generation.

ronya posted:

I think dispatch_async's idea of persuading the party leadership to sell what 'kippers want is dead in the water; Maurice Glasman was ostracized for less.

Yes I don't think it would be possible in reality and I wouldn't want to see it. Not least because nobody is going to believe a Labour leader that claims they will be tough on immigration. Even if they carve it into their own forehead.

I just also don't think it's possible to shift the party to the right (i.e. broadly accept Tory economic arguments on government spending and the need for cuts) without also addressing immigration. How does a Labour candidate respond on the doorstep when they tell a voter that cuts to public services are needed to balance the books and the voter asks "what about all those immigrants claiming benefits, why can't we cut them first".

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 16:55

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12084785/Exams-to-be-taken-earlier-in-the-day-to-fit-around-Ramadan-exam-boards-say.html

quote:

GCSE and A-level exams could be rejigged this summer to take into account the impact of Ramadan, when Muslims fast during daylight hours, the exam boards have said.

quote:

Colin Hart, director of The Christian Institute, a charity that represents 4,000 churches around the UK, said:

"[Exam boards] should let things be. What about students who have medical conditions? How can you start changing the rules for everybody just for those particular pupils who are Muslims, which is a minority.

"It is wrong to impose a Ramadan time table on pupils who are not Muslims. We don�t live in Saudi Arabia where they need to fit the exams around sharia principles.

"It�s wrong that imposing this festival on everybody else.

"When it comes to Easter holidays we have seen the complete erosion of Easter holidays . It used to be two weeks off and now it's only a few days before and after Easter weekend. No regard is given to Christian pupils for Easter.

"It seems like there is one rule for Muslims and another rule for Christians. The exam boards seems to be imposing Ramadan on everybody else."

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 11:31

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Fans posted:

The only real time I�ve actually seen people get mad over Abbott is when she was on HIGNFY and gently caress if I could work out what she did that deserved it as she barely said anything.

Why do people hate Diane Abbott? With examples would be nice.

Is it because she talks about racism? It's because she talks about racism isn't it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3218593.stm

quote:

Left-wing Labour MP Diane Abbott has been accused of hypocrisy for deciding to send her son to a private school.
She is believed to have chosen to pay �10,000 a year for James, 12, to attend City of London School, rather than a comprehensive near her home in Hackney, north London.
Ms Abbott has previously been strongly critical of Labour colleagues Harriet Harman and Tony Blair for their school choices.

Diane Abbott Once Argued That 'On Balance Mao Did More Good Than Harm'

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:29

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

JFairfax posted:

Did any MPs support the campaign against Jerry Springer the Opera?

Peter Luff but he stood down in 2015

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/7474625.MP__ban_this_obscene_show/

quote:

A "CRUDE and explicit" West End play is too vulgar for the BBC and should be pulled from the air, says MP Peter Luff.

Cult show Jerry Springer - The Opera, which contains more than 8,000 obscenities, is due to be aired on BBC2 on Saturday, but Mid-Worcestershire MP Mr Luff (left) has written to BBC director-general Mark Thompson urging him to axe it.

"I consider myself to be broad-minded, but this show was seriously objectionable," said Mr Luff, who saw the play at London's Cambridge Theatre.

Also

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4184403.stm

quote:

A senior Tory MP launched an attack on the website of CBBC's Dick and Dom in da Bungalow in the Commons, asking whether it was in the public taste.

Peter Luff, the Conservative MP for mid-Worcestershire, attacked site for depicting "grossly embarrassing personal situations".

He invited Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell to his office to watch the show.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 18:34

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

quote:

The Labour leader's most significant victory was over defence. Trident supporter Maria Eagle, now shadow culture secretary, was replaced in the brief by Emily Thornberry, an opponent of renewal. This, as CND has been quick to hail, paves the way for Labour to become a unilateralist party for the first time since 1989. "We were too focused on Hilary [Benn] and they got one over on us with Emily's appointment," a shadow minister told me.

If Corbyn is such a bumbling old fool then I'm not sure what it says about the Blairites that (by their own admission) he keeps outfoxing them.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2016 14:02

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

thespaceinvader posted:

How the gently caress can people be this loving stupid seriously

I assume a lot of them feel similarly to Blair: Tony Blair says he wouldn�t want a left-wing Labour party to win an election.

They would rather guarantee that Labour lose than risk Corbyn winning.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 11:54

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:54

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Can we talk about something else? Anything else?

quote:

Around 11am: David Cameron gives a speech on life chances and extending opportunity.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2016 12:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT January and a bit of February 2016: Marxist Theory and Danczuk Memes

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