nomadologique posted:

while i don't necessarily agree w this person's personal literary program, i don't think she's excluding these authors as some kind of attack against them but because she's exhausted with encountering (probably unconscious, unquestioned) assumptions and values that she's had enough of

aka she's sick of hearing the same sad story from the same dumb dorks and wants to hear a sad story that sounds more like hers, which is something most people can empathize with; it's just that some people (the same sad dorks) have monopolized the conversation for the entirety of human history, so they're not lacking a sad story that sounds like theirs because it is the dominant story of every single literary culture up to today

swap a little gay sex here and there, which is not uncommon in a variety of cultures, although it's never been strictly "allowed" in the way it is now (the buttfucker was usually ok, but the buttfucked was as good as a woman); and remember that only white people have ever been white, but dominant men have acted identically in every context; and you can imagine how encountering this literature over and over again throughout ~20 years of school/indoctrination causes you to finally draw a line in the sand, at least to see what it would be like to have noise-cancelling headphones for a particular and ubiquitous noise

E1M1 posted:

Hey, ever wanted to turn your inability to grasp anything more complex than Harry Potter into a moral imperative? Well have I got just the movement for you

E1M1 posted:

Hahaha, "indoctrination", the writers who gave us the canon are a bunch of "dumb dorks", you're a crazy person and I'm glad we've finally hit peak anti-intellectualism to justify why we refuse to read anything more difficult than Jack Reacher

E1M1 posted:

Hey, ever wanted to turn your inability to grasp anything more complex than Harry Potter into a moral imperative? Well have I got just the movement for you

Professor Shark posted:

No I didn't read that article but I also read authors from a variety of sexes, races, and ages. Your posting makes you sound like a poo poo, though!

a retard posted:

"poc can write stories just as well as white men" - a person whose barometers for good storytelling are bioware rpgs, childrens' cartoons, and the marvel cinematic universe

Deceitful Penguin posted:

How the gently caress do you even know if the writing is good if most of the poo poo sold around is the same fuckers, day in day out

a retard posted:

there are a shitload of books and articles that talk about the mechanics of good writing but you probably think they're poo poo because they're probably written by white people

E1M1 posted:

"I refuse to read things that don't align with my personal politics, and in some cases think they should be censored outright" - someone who would've derided this behavior in conservatives a decade ago but now is a sizable portion of the left, god help us

Professor Shark posted:

No I didn't read that article but I also read authors from a variety of sexes, races, and ages. Your posting makes you sound like a poo poo, though!

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Deceitful Penguin posted:

loving lol if you project a bit harder then I think that you can have a good part of the sky covered with this lovely post

do you even grasp the basic jist of her criticism in a remotely impartial way or is this just mutual jerkoff shitposting

Warchild, one of the books she mentions posted:

When Jos' parents are killed in an attack on their trading ship, the boy is kidnapped by the attackers and then escapes - only to fall into the alien hands of humanity's greatest enemies. He is soon coerced into becoming a spy against the human race.

a retard posted:

of course i do but it's pretty obvious that even with the premise she still doesn't step out of her comfort zone since pretty much every book on that list is either sci-fi or fantasy or a white guy she put in by mistake because his name sounds foreign

also i looked at a few of those books on amazon and the plots don't exactly seem like they require a marginalized voice to tell properly, i mean look at this

also if you're trying to imply that marginalized voices are ignored in literature it doesn't exactly help your case when you put books by hugo and nobel winners on your list

Deceitful Penguin posted:

You aren't making a clear distinction between, the on one hand rather capable argument that the author is a huge nerd and loser and on the other, that the idea she espouses is loving retarded.

like, look at huge issues we have just getting white women into the mainstream (so yea, not scifi&fantasy poo poo) and then realize that for all the poo poo they publish, they are the second most notable group after honkey men (in a country like mine where pretty much errybody white its really sad to look at the poo poo translated and its literally all white dudes, except if a lady wrote a crime novel or something)

a retard posted:

ok so i guess the problem here is you live in a super white non-english speaking country where white women aren't really mainstream authors while here in america some of the most popular authors are/were women albeit white (danielle steel, jackie collins, your average harlequin romance novel author, not to mention people like jk rowling (british, but still really successful in america), stephanie meyer, and suzanne collins who wrote blockbuster book franchises that became blockbuster film franchises) and that's just the poo poo that gets sold at your average supermarket, and if you're going by black women, toni morrison and maya angelou are/were relatively mainstream authors here, not to mention plenty of black/hispanic authors who make a good living writing books for a primarily black/hispanic demographic

basically what i am saying is if you want a wider variety of successful voices of all races and genders then move the gently caress out of your lovely country

the trump tutelage posted:

hmmm i'll just keep reading things i enjoy, op. thanks though

Deceitful Penguin posted:

gently caress, take Suzanne Collins as an example. young adult dystopia gets popular as a genre, bang, suddenly a bunch of rejected scripts get in, some by women like Roth and others by other fuckers,idk

Publishers don't publish things they think won't be commercially viable, mostly, and when almost all of that is white dudes, with most of what the consumer hears about is white dudes, you can you grasp the point of a thing where you are supposed to not read the most common available supported thing

the problem isn't that white women aren't mainstream, because they aren't compared to the loving flood of honkey dude books, just looking at volume here. also lol plural of anecdote incarnate

I would say the only problem with her idea, was that it didn't exclude white women but then again if you did that you would be completely hosed in her chosen genre because its almost solely for pasty nerds, whatever they gender

Typical Pubbie posted:

Captain Clown posted:

who's that he has an awesome beard

a retard posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_R._Delany

quote:

Samuel Ray Delany, Jr. (/dəˈleɪni/; born April 1, 1942), Chip Delany to his friends,[2]

a retard posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_R._Delany

a retard posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_R._Delany

quote:

By contrast, fellow writers such as Philip K. Dick and Harlan Ellison hated the novel. When the book appeared, Ellison in the L. A. Times (Sunday, February 23, 1975, p. 64) wrote: "I must be honest. I gave up after 361 pages. I could not permit myself to be gulled or bored any further."

Fluo posted:

How about judging people on their actions, their character and their opinions

Rather than their race or gender

a retard posted:

"plural of ancedote" says the guy who moves the goalposts. also you didn't answer what country you live in because if it's super white like you say i honestly don't think your average scandinavian or wherever the hell you're from would be that interested in reading something like the color purple not to mention not having a decent knowledge of the cultural and historical contexts to that book that we would have in america. it sounds more like a problem with your country where the vast majority of your country being whities means most of what gets published in your country is full of whities. demographics and all that

also the current new york times fiction bestseller list has nine women out of 19 authors on the list (nicholas sparks has two books on there) so your argument doesn't hold water and you shouldn't be judging voices in literature by the mainstream anyway

agree with you on publishers being dumbasses who couldn't recognize a good pitch if it got jammed up their rear end though

a retard posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_R._Delany

quote:

"I read the NAMBLA [Bulletin] fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found. I think before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about. What the issues they are really talking about, and deal with what's really there rather than this demonized notion of guys running about trying to screw little boys. I would have been so much happier as an adolescent if NAMBLA had been around when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, 13." — Samuel R. Delany, Queer Desires Forum, New York City, June 25, 1994.

I'm Crap posted:

also