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Febreeze posted:Since now it's basically confirmed I'll ask again: Is Megatron a HoFer? Yes. Jerome Bettis made it in; the bar for the HoF is pretty low now.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:12
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Bettis is the perfect example of longevity being unfairly overvalued over peak.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:17
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I'm not sure if Megatron is a Hall of Famer, but WR is the biggest logjam the HOF has right now.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:20
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Yoshifan823 posted:Three. Andre, Calvin, and Chad. Hm can't think of any good receivers named Chad Johnson
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Feb 1, 2016 16:55
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Here's the list of WRs in the HoFquote:Modern Era: Wide Receivers (24) There is only two people on there, Moss and Rice, who I can say most people would claim to be better than Calvin. The older guys are hard to compare. The game has changed so much that it's not really fair or possible to make an argument for or against them regarding their worthiness vs. Calvin. But of the newer guys (mid 80s and beyond), there's room for debate as to whether or not they are better than Johnson. What makes Andre Reed or Art Monk better than Calvin Johnson? Is it Art Monk's rings? His time with a high visibility franchise? That Reed suffered heartbreak 4 times? Does Carter's redemption story make him more worthy than Calvin who has always been on the straight and narrow? Maybe it's because Irvin was so flamboyant? Calvin isn't flamboyant at all. He's actually pretty dull. But in terms of pure ability, is it possible to say that any of those guys was without a doubt, beyond argument better than Calvin Johnson?
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Feb 1, 2016 17:00
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BigBoss posted:Here's the list of WRs in the HoF Calvin should go in my opinion, but Art Monk is a reason to vote for any bubble WR to make the HoF. The amazing thing is he's probably not the worst WR in the hall, Lynn Swann made it because of one catch.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:12
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Calvin Johnson is 1st ballot HoF and I can't even believe there's dissent
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Feb 1, 2016 17:17
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MY NIGGA D-LINK posted:Calvin Johnson is 1st ballot HoF and I can't even believe there's dissent I can only hope
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Feb 1, 2016 17:24
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MY NIGGA D-LINK posted:Calvin Johnson is 1st ballot HoF and I can't even believe there's dissent I for one cannot wait for the hot take brigade to say he shouldn't get in because of RINGZZZ I think he will get in though
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Feb 1, 2016 17:27
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MY NIGGA D-LINK posted:Calvin Johnson is 1st ballot HoF and I can't even believe there's dissent Yeah, I can't really see an argument against him being in but I don't think he'll be on the ballot for a few years in case the hunger to return hits him
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Feb 1, 2016 17:28
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Things working in Johnson's favor: -The Receiving yards in a single season record -6 pro bowls -3 all pros -his peak was pretty incredible -a killer nickname everyone knows - NFL record for consecutive 100 yard games - tied with Irvin for most 100 yard games in a season -Led the NFL in yards and TDs in two seasons each -Fastest WR to 10k yards Things working against him: -WR logjam in the hall -no rings, not even a playoff win (so he holds no playoff records) -he's only #27 On the career receiving yards list -#22 all time receiving Tds -Stafford is known for throwing the ball way too much, would Calvin have done so well had Stafford not thrown like 40 passes every game? -played on the worst team in the modern era -no longevity He's arguable but not first ballot, which means that either he'll get in 10 years from now or everyone will just sort of forget about him during the same time frame as other receivers put up crazy numbers in the modern game Honestly retiring early could help him in a weird backwards "what he could have been had Detroit not crushed his soul" way Febreeze fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 17:34
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Calvin Johnson is the only receiver I've ever seen triple-teamed at the line-of-scrimmage. It was a goal-to-go situation at, like, the 5. I'm pretty sure he still got the TD, but my memory is hazier on that.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:37
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BigBoss posted:Here's the list of WRs in the HoF Yes but out of the modern area guys Calvin has a MUCH shorter career length. I think he deserves to be in the hall but I just don't see him making it for a while, if at all.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:42
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It's loving insane to think what he could have been on a good team.Febreeze posted:Honestly retiring early could help him in a weird backwards "what he could have been had Detroit not crushed his soul" way
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Feb 1, 2016 17:46
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:It's loving insane to think what he could have been on a good team. Exactly. Imagine him having spent those 9 years with a hall of fame caliber QB (Brady, Favre/Rodgers, Peyton, etc...)
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Feb 1, 2016 17:52
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Eh, he got to have a very good quarterback throw him the ball the last number of years. Hell, even Orlovsky was able to huck the ball way downfield. The bigger problem was having one dimensional offenses
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Feb 1, 2016 17:57
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That's true. The Lions run game has been pretty poo poo.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:00
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I honestly hope he comes back because a couple more years of his current production puts him in the surefire category. Just 1000 more yards and he's #21 all time. Another 2000 more and he's #14. If he catches 17 more Touchdowns, he's got 100 and he's tied for #10 all time. Seriously if he plays just a couple more seasons he's a surefire, but right now he's on the cusp.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:00
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Flikken posted:Yes but out of the modern area guys Calvin has a MUCH shorter career length. I think we're going to start seeing shorter careers in the future for a variety of reasons. The awareness of health issues (I think dementia is going to be the next big cause akin to breast cancer as baby boomers get older), an increase in pay, and the slow erosion of the football player tough guy mentality, especially for guys who know they're safe on the roster, is going to make it less common to see guys having 15+ year careers. Why risk early onset dementia when you're a multimillionaire who's already regarded as an all time great?
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Feb 1, 2016 18:04
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I guess it also depends on how the Hall of Fame voters want to judge the new NFL passing offense where not putting up 300 yards a game means you're bad so stats across the board are going to be pretty inflated for QBs and WRs. Calvin is a pretty unique football player though.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:06
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Fenrir posted:That's true. The Lions run game has been pretty poo poo. They were able to enjoy Greatest Show on Turf 2.0 type stuff for a couple games one year. Then Jahvid Best got killed.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:07
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Detroit_Dogg posted:Eh, he got to have a very good quarterback throw him the ball the last number of years. Hell, even Orlovsky was able to huck the ball way downfield. The bigger problem was having one dimensional offenses It's true that Stafford can sling it. But for a lot of his career the entire offense was Him + 1 other decent WR, then various qualities at OL, RB, TE, and QB. And the defense has almost always been poo poo iirc, so there wouldn't be manageable game states. It does lead to crazy situations where Stafford has to sling it 40 times a game, but I have to think having a balanced offense where he isn't double or triple covered would have been a net overall improvement in his production.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:11
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 Put him in the hall.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:19
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imagine just one year where there was some other credible threat on the field that drew double coverage or a running game that required another man in the box for
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Feb 1, 2016 18:23
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There was one above average season of Nate Burleson and one good season of Golden Tate, who was mostly only good because Calvin was hurt and he became the #1 target because who the gently caress else is going to get thrown the ball
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Feb 1, 2016 18:37
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The most reliable 2nd target the Lions have had over his career has been Brandon Pettigrew. I love Pettigrew but let that sink in.
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Feb 1, 2016 18:39
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korrandark posted:
I was at that game. (I'm pretty sure the lions lost too  )When Stafford threw it, I was like "what the gently caress dude, there are like 4 guys in the area?!?"
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Feb 1, 2016 18:53
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ozymandius1024 posted:When Stafford threw it, I was like "what the gently caress dude, there are like 4 guys in the area?!?" Sam Martin shanked a punt with like a minute left when the game was tied and the Bengals nailed a field goal
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Feb 1, 2016 19:03
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He closed out his record-breaking season with Brian Robiskie, Kris Durham and Mike Thomas as the other wideouts. Everybody knew exactly what the Lions were going to do, but they couldn't stop him.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:13
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Cruel and Unusual posted:He closed out his record-breaking season with Brian Robiskie, Kris Durham and Mike Thomas as the other wideouts. Everybody knew exactly what the Lions were going to do, but they couldn't stop him. The guy just can't loving be covered when he's healthy.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:38
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Grittybeard posted:Calvin should go in my opinion, but Art Monk is a reason to vote for any bubble WR to make the HoF. The amazing thing is he's probably not the worst WR in the hall, Lynn Swann made it because of one catch. But did you see that catch?
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Feb 1, 2016 19:40
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Metapod posted:But did you see that catch? It was pretty awesome, I have to admit.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:47
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Fenrir posted:The guy just can't loving be covered when he's healthy. Once again, looking at the list of WRs that are in or waiting, who else aside from Rice or Moss was the force Calvin was? I think if he played for an NFC East team that was on national TV 5 or 6 times a year Calvin Johnson would be way more famous and well regarded. ODB is a great player, but you can't deny being on the NYG has made him more famous.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:55
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Grittybeard posted:Calvin should go in my opinion, but Art Monk is a reason to vote for any bubble WR to make the HoF. The amazing thing is he's probably not the worst WR in the hall, Lynn Swann made it because of one catch. Went to look up Lynn Swann's career on Wiki. This was the one thing I took away from it: 
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Feb 1, 2016 19:57
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remember he was also able to catch poo poo thrown by Reggie Ball
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Feb 1, 2016 20:10
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BigBoss posted:Once again, looking at the list of WRs that are in or waiting, who else aside from Rice or Moss was the force Calvin was? I think if he played for an NFC East team that was on national TV 5 or 6 times a year Calvin Johnson would be way more famous and well regarded. ODB is a great player, but you can't deny being on the NYG has made him more famous. Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. I've been saying for most of his career that Megatron was sorely overlooked. Maybe he isn't here on TFF but in the public eye, certainly.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:12
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Grittybeard posted:Calvin should go in my opinion, but Art Monk is a reason to vote for any bubble WR to make the HoF. The amazing thing is he's probably not the worst WR in the hall, Lynn Swann made it because of one catch. Lynn Swann made it because of one catch and 4 rings. Calvin is a better receiver by far but that lack of any sort of playoff success is going to really hurt his chances Fenrir posted:Don't get me wrong, I agree completely. I've been saying for most of his career that Megatron was sorely overlooked. Maybe he isn't here on TFF but in the public eye, certainly. That I honestly don't know about. Early in his career especially, but once he got the nickname it seemed like everyone knew who Megatron was. He also has a highly controversial rule named after him. That does bring recognition. He may not have gotten quite the attention he deserved but he didn't seem to want that attention and he was still pretty well known. Even my more casual football fan friends know who megatron is. The year he set the record loving everyone knew because nobody could go a week without talking about it because he got off to such a great start. I think it was Cris Carter who had to publicly eat crow after dissing him in the pre-season. Febreeze fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 20:13
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Has anyone posted the gif of a million undersized Saints DBs covering him yet?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:33
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Febreeze posted:That I honestly don't know about. Early in his career especially, but once he got the nickname it seemed like everyone knew who Megatron was. He also has a highly controversial rule named after him. That does bring recognition. That is true - especially about him avoiding the spotlight. He's never been an "in your face" kind of player like TO or Ochocinco, etc. Also, gently caress Cris Carter.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:42
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Other than TO, or maybe Chad Johnson, Calvin is the most zeitgeisty WR of his era. Even though he played in Detroit he did not want for fame. How many Acura spots did Marvin Harrison appear in?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:55
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