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Volkerball posted:What research has been done that connects fracking to earthquakes, and if there is a connection, is it inherent to fracking or is the problem also present in non-fracked wells? I'm on my phone so I don't have any papers handy at the moment, but il do my best. There is no potential for earthquakes in non fraced wells. The mechanism for earthquakes is increasing pore pressure in formations, this is done by pumping fluid into the rock. Without fracing the well, you are not increasing pore pressure, in fact you are reducing pore pressure (allowing formation fluids to escape up the wellbore). Fracing earthquakes has some tenuous links to seismicity, at best. The links are nowhere near what injection wells are and the reason is pretty simple. Fracing pumps water into shale formations (which dont allow fluid to easily flow throughout the formation) and any increased pressure on the formation is released when the well is opened up for production. Also, because it is a shale formation, wells next to each other do not interact a whole lot. Injection wells on the other hand, are pumping fluid into formations which are permeable (fluid freely moves through the formation) so nearby wells can interact with each other. Also, fluid in the formation is supposed to remain down there. So fluid requires time to disperse and formation pressures to equalize. I don't think I used any technical terms, but it I glazed over anything please feel free to ask me to explain.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:19
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I want to say this stuff was first noticed in the north sea back in the 70s or 80s - or at least the result of activity from then. As they started draining reservoirs they noticed subsidence and seismic events. This led to some array microseismic studies and people going 'huh looks like depletion is causing earthquakes' but being at the bottom of the sea, no one really cared. I think now days there may be requirements for monitoring the surrounding areas for seepage. This is not tied specifically to fracing - in fact I doubt the process itself is capable of causing earthquakes in areas that were not previously seismically active - its the leniently regulated spacing/use of water disposal wells and local geology. 'Earthquake' is a bit of a misnomer - everyone knows if you go about drastically changing reservoir pressure (up or down) the surface deforms in response. The technique is used to estimate reservoir volume and drainage patterns. Its when people have buildings on top of it that it becomes a problem. Getting anyone to admit to it legally is another question entirely.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:25
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Trabisnikof posted:Its more the injection wells that cause the earthquakes and the science is in the phase of "we're very sure injection wells are causing earthquakes, but we don't know the direct relationships between an earthquake and the specific wells" JohnGalt posted:I'm on my phone so I don't have any papers handy at the moment, but il do my best. This makes sense. All of the issues I'd heard of regarding fracking were generally about pollution in the water table due to things like cracked casings that you can get in non-fracked wells, so I was a bit surprised to hear talk about earthquakes since it's just using water to break up shale to release natural gas. I can see how an injection well would be a different scenario though. Thanks.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:28
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hah WTI is more expensive than Brent now. As an oilfield worker this personally blows. Almost everyone I know has been laid off. Already had to ship up to Canada for winter projects. Just chasing work wherever it is. There's an open spot in al-Khobar, Saudi I might apply for. Or there's always law school. Celot fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 23:37
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Volkerball posted:This makes sense. All of the issues I'd heard of regarding fracking were generally about pollution in the water table due to things like cracked casings that you can get in non-fracked wells, so I was a bit surprised to hear talk about earthquakes since it's just using water to break up shale to release natural gas. I can see how an injection well would be a different scenario though. Thanks. I don't know if 'cracked' casing is the right word. The pathways for fluid migration are either in poor cement around the casing which can allow fluid to migrate along the outside of the borehole. Also, casing can be corroded (more common in wells older than 40 years old). The corroded casing issues could be resolved by have companies bond wells so that there is money to plug them at the end of their life cycle (in the case that the well lasts longer than the company). Poor cement jobs are much less common than they used to be, mostly because no one required ceent returns or bond logs to make sure the cement was good, because no one cared. Celot posted:hah WTI is more expensive than Brent now. I was sweating bullets for a while. Now I know my company can remain solvent for 2 years, so I'm getting my MBA part time. I think I want out of the industry, but no one pays nearly as well for what I do. JohnGalt fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 23:43
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JohnGalt posted:I don't know if 'cracked' casing is the right word. The pathways for fluid migration are either in poor cement around the casing which can allow fluid to migrate along the outside of the borehole. Also, casing can be corroded (more common in wells older than 40 years old). Split collars aren't too uncommon. There's a whole suite of casing evaluation services that use ultrasound or the Hall effect to evaluate casing thickness (and therefore damage/corrosion). CBLs aren't really all you'd need if you want to guarantee that there is no path for borehole fluids to get outside the casing. A typical CBL cannot detect cement channeling, casing corrosion, or casing damage. A typical CBL also cannot directly determine the severity of a microannulus. The CBLs that can directly detect channeling and microannuli are typically about 5x the cost. Even more for casing evaluation. I'm not really a cement dude but I think microannuli and channeling can happen even when the cementers do a good job. The microannulus forms just from thermal contraction of the casing, and afaik there's not much you can do to prevent channeling. You can fix the cement job after the fact if there is channeling though.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:59
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Containment ponds pose a greater risk of groundwater contamination than the wells themselves, at least in Western PA where those are common. There were also reported cases of trunks transporting fluids just dumping it local creeks, in one case this caused a salinity spike which allowed an invasive algae imported from Texas to proliferate and release toxic metabolites, killing almost everything in the river.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:17
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Celot posted:hah WTI is more expensive than Brent now. People with law degrees aren't exactly doing so hot at the moment.
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Jan 16, 2016 01:24
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Shifty Pony posted:People with law degrees aren't exactly doing so hot at the moment. Patent law isn't so bad is it?
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Jan 16, 2016 01:37
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Celot posted:Split collars aren't too uncommon. There's a whole suite of casing evaluation services that use ultrasound or the Hall effect to evaluate casing thickness (and therefore damage/corrosion). Fair enough, I only set outer casing depths I don't deal with actually cementing it. Cement is a whole lot less important than setting surface and intermediate casing in the right zone to prevent annular migration anyways. Squalid posted:Containment ponds pose a greater risk of groundwater contamination than the wells themselves, at least in Western PA where those are common. There were also reported cases of trunks transporting fluids just dumping it local creeks, in one case this caused a salinity spike which allowed an invasive algae imported from Texas to proliferate and release toxic metabolites, killing almost everything in the river. Pretty much this. Brine impoundments are bad. Also, that trucking company is bad. OH outlawed brine impoundments.
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Jan 16, 2016 02:44
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:The types of earthquakes caused by fracking are virtually imperceptible to people- who gives a gently caress if the number of 2-3.0 earthquakes is vastly higher it's utterly irrelevant. Fracking just seems like one of those issues where the strongest arguments against is are "the other party likes it", because there's no legitimate argument against fracking where the wastewater is properly handled. You can totally notice a 3.0 earthquake, it does damage to infrastructure over time, and also raises the likelihood of Magnitude 5 and higher earthquakes.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:32
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Celot posted:hah WTI is more expensive than Brent now. Saudi pays well and you don't pay income tax there. If you're young and don't have attachments, then there's no reason to not take some of those evil old men's money.
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Jan 16, 2016 14:56
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Nevvy Z posted:I had this idea recently. Someone should setup a system by which I can buy a couple hundred bucks of gas redeemable whenever. Basically small scale private speculation by the x number of gallons. It's such a stupid idea that there is an episode of "It's Always Sunny" that makes fun of doing exactly that.
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Jan 16, 2016 15:15
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Zeroisanumber posted:Saudi pays well and you don't pay income tax there. If you're young and don't have attachments, then there's no reason to not take some of those evil old men's money. And male, another important qualifier.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:28
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Squalid posted:Containment ponds pose a greater risk of groundwater contamination than the wells themselves, at least in Western PA where those are common. There were also reported cases of trunks transporting fluids just dumping it local creeks, in one case this caused a salinity spike which allowed an invasive algae imported from Texas to proliferate and release toxic metabolites, killing almost everything in the river.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:01
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Celot posted:Patent law isn't so bad is it? Mostly, it's a question of ROI. A law degree is 3 years, you need to go to a good school and get good grades, the coursework can be very challenging, and the cost without scholarships is enormous. After school, you'll have to study for and pass the bar, which is also a significant investment of money and effort. You could probably get a MBA or MA/MS in a different field for a lower cost, much less time, and for roughly equivalent money. Anecdotally, I got an MPP at the same time several of my friends got JDs. I finished 1.5 years ahead of them and currently make 20% more than the highest paid of them. A classmate of mine who was getting his MBA and had crossover classes with me absolutely slaughters all of us in salary. edit: I should add that the salary distribution of attorneys is bi-modal. There are some who make killer money (mostly top 14 school grads), and many, many more who make $50-60k to start. Some people never even find a $50k job and just stop putting their JD on their resume. Grand Theft Autobot fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 00:27
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achillesforever6 posted:A lot of this poo poo seems to because these assholes are lazy/cheap. So lazy is kind of insulting. There was a learning curve for everyone on this thing. Brine impoundments were the answer to what the hell do we do with this fluid? The industry didnt know if it could be reused, treated, or disposed of effectively. At the end of the day, the primary contaminant is salt (which isn't a serious contaminant). Cheap is true, there is a motivation to cut costs, but the state has handed down several serious fines for leaking impoundments (even loving freshwater ones, which is complete bullshit) and operators have taken steps to correct.
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Jan 17, 2016 02:08
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Idk maybe you should like, have a plan in place to dispose of your environmentally harmful waste before you start using it, that seems like the non lazy thing to do to me.
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Jan 17, 2016 02:20
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rscott posted:Idk maybe you should like, have a plan in place to dispose of your environmentally harmful waste before you start using it, that seems like the non lazy thing to do to me. America's nuclear industry is lazy apparently. 
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Jan 17, 2016 02:23
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Trabisnikof posted:America's nuclear industry is lazy apparently. In that case, the government said that they'd take care of it. Then Reid became senate majority leader...
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Jan 17, 2016 02:39
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rscott posted:Idk maybe you should like, have a plan in place to dispose of your environmentally harmful waste before you start using it, that seems like the non lazy thing to do to me. State DOT sprays it on the road (literally do this with convential well flowback) so I guess that should be a legitimate option.
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Jan 17, 2016 02:44
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hobbesmaster posted:In that case, the government said that they'd take care of it. And who's job is it to regulate waste disposal! The government! I'm just following the law! 
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Jan 17, 2016 02:50
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hobbesmaster posted:In that case, the government said that they'd take care of it. Hey, hey, we have a (tiny as poo poo) nuclear fuel reprocessing capability in the U.S.
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Jan 17, 2016 06:15
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So Iran is back in business with an additional output of 500k bbl/day. Here is a nice article full of charts and graphs that details how production has seesawed between major producing countries. The short story is that we are basically right back to being as oversupplied as we were when this whole thing started. Despite the US rig count being what it is, production is still not falling enough to counteract increases from overseas. This is going to be a long, long down cycle and the end result will be massive market share gains for OPEC. Unless a war breaks out or something... In related news Citibank, Wells Fargo, and others have increased reserves to cover expected defaults. WF looks particularly exposed, but the magnitude of dollars involved is no where near housing crisis level.
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Jan 19, 2016 02:12
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I was fracing up until late this fall. Was a small company, we went from almost 300 to about 40 employees in two weeks... Some friends working for the super majors started getting laid off at the begging of summer due to prices. Fortunately I have a degree to fall back on and found a decent job back home, though for about 35% less pay. Really enjoyed working in that industry. Just going to be keeping my eyes out for that next boom, and jump in early.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:18
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If anyone wants some info on various institutional outlooks on US energy & commodities market outlooks, there's some pretty exciting testimony being covered live on CSPAN-1.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:36
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Fun fact: At $28/bbl oil is worth less than the actual barrels that they store it in.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:38
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Mostly, it's a question of ROI. A law degree is 3 years, you need to go to a good school and get good grades, the coursework can be very challenging, and the cost without scholarships is enormous. After school, you'll have to study for and pass the bar, which is also a significant investment of money and effort. I'm starting to question this logic because anecdotal experience seems to indicate its more about being top of your class then being top 14, though being in the top 14 makes it so you don't have to be top of your class. IIRC my wife was the only one of her hiring class that went to a top 10 school and is still teased about it constantly.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:59
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Zeroisanumber posted:Fun fact: At $28/bbl oil is worth less than the actual barrels that they store it in. Canada will have to start selling oil in bags.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:06
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Bar Crow posted:Canada will have to start selling oil in bags. Using one petrochemical-derived item to store another petrochemical, I like it.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:14
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Bar Crow posted:Canada will have to start selling oil in bags.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:41
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Canada should store the oil in some stable medium like sand until the price goes back up
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Jan 19, 2016 19:42
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Bar Crow posted:Canada will have to start selling oil in bags. Don't worry Truedoe will fix that by banning the extraction of oil.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:45
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So why are California pump prices still high? Is it the refineries at this point? I just payed 3.00 a gallon today while hearing a story of gas well under a dollar in another state.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:59
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Aeka 2.0 posted:So why are California pump prices still high? Is it the refineries at this point? I just payed 3.00 a gallon today while hearing a story of gas well under a dollar in another state. A combination of California having a non-standard type of fuel and just normal price gouging.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:00
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Aeka 2.0 posted:So why are California pump prices still high? Is it the refineries at this point? I just payed 3.00 a gallon today while hearing a story of gas well under a dollar in another state. Prices at the pump lag the price per barrel of oil a lot, mainly because the stuff making its way to gas stations was sold at whatever it cost the refiners to make and gas stations will try and nickel and dime each other down. ie, if its currently $3.00 a gallon why lower it to $1.80 if the guy across the street is charging $2.949 right now? Lets do $2.939! ps its $1.72 here in metro Saint Paul, MN. Suck it California.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:03
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hobbesmaster posted:Prices at the pump lag the price per barrel of oil a lot, mainly because the stuff making its way to gas stations was sold at whatever it cost the refiners to make and gas stations will try and nickel and dime each other down. ie, if its currently $3.00 a gallon why lower it to $1.80 if the guy across the street is charging $2.949 right now? Lets do $2.939! Whatever, the improved air quality is worth it.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:06
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Trabisnikof posted:Whatever, the improved air quality is worth it. I'll have you know that it got above 0F today so its practically balmy outside! Oh wait you meant emissions. 
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Jan 19, 2016 22:07
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computer parts posted:A combination of California having a non-standard type of fuel and just normal price gouging. Also California has to bring all oil in by tanker. There are no pipelines that cross the Rockies with refined or unrefined crude. That's why we talk again and again about the danger of oil trains (because trains are the only other way to get it here) So it's expensive because shipping costs are higher, too.
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Jan 19, 2016 22:12
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I'm not seeing anything to substantiate prices below a dollar, although there are states that aren't too far off. Lowest I can find on the internet is a report of $1.23 outside of Tulsa, OK.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:35
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