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UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


I've seen this in two different videos now - an inability to shoot down at a target from above unless they're far away. Angry Joe was complaining about it and you can see it clearly here at 07:12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTaTvtsF1s0

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cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea

Scrub-Niggurath posted:

They just announced that the Division at launch will only be taking place in the lamest part of NYC

Jesus. That's pretty bad. They clearly bit off way way more than they could chew.
I was hoping to hit up all my old spots.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug

Reverse Centaur posted:

I've seen this in two different videos now - an inability to shoot down at a target from above unless they're far away. Angry Joe was complaining about it and you can see it clearly here at 07:12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTaTvtsF1s0

This guy is terrible though

Orv
May 4, 2011
That's part and parcel of third person shooters unfortunately. Some have solved it but never elegantly.

I expect this game to disappoint me but I wouldn't mind if it didn't.

he1ixx
Aug 23, 2007

still bad at video games

TG-Chrono posted:

I think there's some conflation where people see cover shooter, they are discounting the RPG part of the mix. I am not an advocate for bullet sponge enemies, but I remember people complaining in KOTOR about how hitting an enemy with a lightsaber didn't kill them. There are certain concessions made to realism for the sake of having an rpg progression system.

That's my take on this too. This isn't a shooter like Ghost Recon, its an RPG. There seems to be a lot of negativity about it which is probably understandable since people seem to have an image of how this game *should* be but it isn't what they came up with in their head. That disconnect is something they will need to overcome to get a player base. I remember a lot of wild ideas about what Destiny would be and the reactions when it wasn't a grand sweeping story etc. People still hate Destiny but I play it every night. I have the feeling this game will be similar.

I don't have a stake in the game other than I like fun and this looks fun to me. Rolling with 3 or 4 friends through missions (and the Dark Zone) looks like fun to me. If it doesn't look like your thing I don't know what to tell you but this is a thread to talk about the game so posting parts of it that looked fun seemed... appropriate?

The point about the endgame was a good one. I am sure they have something planned based on what I heard on their podcast and commentary during some of the feeds from the last week. I am sure they're playing it close to the vest until closer to launch.

AngryJoe commentary and long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPLATt94n0

The Division Podcast about how the stats and loot work (with the devs)
https://soundcloud.com/thedivisiongame/the-division-podcast-episode-7-sweet-sweet-loot

How the Open World and Fast Travel works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTO2PN8hDAs

Eurogamer Impressions of Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGnUNvnqHoc

Lincoln Tunnel Mission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSmqGGJy7UY

Play at level 20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU-ylFd4Kfw

Dark Zone walkthrough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZQ843nNEfU

Anime_Otaku
Dec 6, 2009
Should the fact that the beta is linked to pre-orders be as big of a red flag as it feels like?
Looking at the game it seems pretty good and I know there are some glaring glitches like people moving without the walk animation happening but I'm gonna forgive that as something they'll fix when they get down to the final polish. The only things I'm worried about is it having the same endgame problem where you do the initial end content including expansions for the first 'season' and move on, then find that when you go back for the next season you're way under levelled and, understandably, the older content isn't getting much use which happened to me with Destiny.
My other concern is the Dark Zone stuff, while I'm cool with other teams possibly being hostile I wish games would stop encouraging players to act like antisocial douchecanoes to their teammates.

Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

You can sign up for the beta without pre-ordering, but you're not guaranteed to get a key. Pre-ordering guarantees you a key.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug

Anime_Otaku posted:

Should the fact that the beta is linked to pre-orders be as big of a red flag as it feels like?
Looking at the game it seems pretty good and I know there are some glaring glitches like people moving without the walk animation happening but I'm gonna forgive that as something they'll fix when they get down to the final polish. The only things I'm worried about is it having the same endgame problem where you do the initial end content including expansions for the first 'season' and move on, then find that when you go back for the next season you're way under levelled and, understandably, the older content isn't getting much use which happened to me with Destiny.
My other concern is the Dark Zone stuff, while I'm cool with other teams possibly being hostile I wish games would stop encouraging players to act like antisocial douchecanoes to their teammates.

Most games have beta with pre-orders these days. If you applied for the Alpha and were selected, your access carries over into beta.

he1ixx
Aug 23, 2007

still bad at video games

Anime_Otaku posted:

Looking at the game it seems pretty good and I know there are some glaring glitches like people moving without the walk animation happening but I'm gonna forgive that as something they'll fix when they get down to the final polish. The only things I'm worried about is it having the same endgame problem where you do the initial end content including expansions for the first 'season' and move on, then find that when you go back for the next season you're way under levelled and, understandably, the older content isn't getting much use which happened to me with Destiny.

yeah it is going to be a potential problem for them but seeing as I am still doing year one strikes in Destiny and I still enjoy it. My attitude this this game (and others) is that if the main action loop is fun (shooting, playing with friends, doing missions, getting loot) then the game will stick. I was on the fence until I started watching the videos and for me, it looks like something I'd quite enjoy. I can understand how others might feel the opposite.

Anime_Otaku posted:

My other concern is the Dark Zone stuff, while I'm cool with other teams possibly being hostile I wish games would stop encouraging players to act like antisocial douchecanoes to their teammates.

True.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug
Some new live action mini-series videos released. Not sure if they're supposed to go in a specific order;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0kaj-eqqsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUWNBPVRjTw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X40CTplhI9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJeJe_AKuwg

Furiously
Jan 4, 2014

...and Furiously as The Beagle.

Also, you can unlock 4 outfits at the following: http://ubi.li/e9v3u

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


I'm wondering if some of the bullet sponge enemies might have something to do with the nature of the preview builds where they didn't really have upgraded/customized weapons.

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus
RPG or not it's retarded to be in a real world setting and have to empty clips into unarmored dudes in order to kill them. It was one of the more annoying things about the Uncharted games. Just give the enemies some flak jackets or something instead of saying 'well it's an RPG so that tank top is actually +3 defense and his AC is higher than your current weapon's damage output so OF COURSE it takes an entire assault rifle clip to bring him down.'

Sure the gunspergs will still be like 'actually flak jackets only provide protection from shrapnel and limited small arms fire so my rifle bullets should penetrate easily' but your average gamer will equate armor with harder to kill.

Now that I think about it, it's really annoying in Borderlands, also, despite the sci-fi setting. Especially when you're facing off against basic bandits.

Furiously
Jan 4, 2014

...and Furiously as The Beagle.
My worthless take is the smallpox virus mutated giving people crazy health instead of death, and likely everyone you run into is hopped up on PCP so it all works in my brain's attempt to make it make sense version.

wjs5
Aug 22, 2009

DrNutt posted:

RPG or not it's retarded to be in a real world setting and have to empty clips into unarmored dudes in order to kill them. It was one of the more annoying things about the Uncharted games. Just give the enemies some flak jackets or something instead of saying 'well it's an RPG so that tank top is actually +3 defense and his AC is higher than your current weapon's damage output so OF COURSE it takes an entire assault rifle clip to bring him down.'

Sure the gunspergs will still be like 'actually flak jackets only provide protection from shrapnel and limited small arms fire so my rifle bullets should penetrate easily' but your average gamer will equate armor with harder to kill.

Now that I think about it, it's really annoying in Borderlands, also, despite the sci-fi setting. Especially when you're facing off against basic bandits.

So you have no prob with medieval rpgs where you swing a sword into/through people multiple times and they dont die the first? Same with the KOTOR games where lightsabers hit people? Its a RPG get over yourself.

limited
Dec 10, 2005
Limited Sanity
Individual enemies have a poo poo-ton of health compared to a single player. It's just that in small ambushes, everyone is shooting the same handful of dudes.

When things get more crazy and people have to split to shoot their own dudes, it highlights how much crazy HP they have compared to individual damage output.

To be honest this game is looking more and more like a giant Mass Effect multiplayer with a CoD skin, and I still hope they don't bork it up. Besides the lengthy development, and hoping that it won't be a game with Ubisoft being.. Ubisoft, my only real bitch is the lack of any offline mode, even if it's a seperate file, what with console online services being what they are.

Vitamin P
Nov 19, 2013

Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded

limited posted:

To be honest this game is looking more and more like a giant Mass Effect multiplayer with a CoD skin, and I still hope they don't bork it up. Besides the lengthy development, and hoping that it won't be a game with Ubisoft being.. Ubisoft, my only real bitch is the lack of any offline mode, even if it's a seperate file, what with console online services being what they are.

The Mass Effect multiplayer was good partly because there was some enemy variety though. 3-4 different factions with enough differentiation that the enemies at wave 1, 6 or 10 were visually and gameplay-wise distinct even within the same faction. If the Geth had been just different coloured basic soldiers with more HP that would have been boring.

Like I can see why Ubi have had trouble here, the fact that they still aren't talking about raid content proves they still are, the way games in a semi-realistic setting have tough enemies is to give them in-setting technological and resource superiority, but that doesn't fit this, so they've just done a level system and put helmets on some mooks.

Saying it again, they should have gone full comics b-movie with the plague and put some monster enemies in with the gun-toting bad guys.

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.
Yeah the setting of something like Mass Effect or Destiny allows for really strong visual differences in the factions. I know of two factions in TheDiv so far has shown the 'Rikers' and the 'Cleaners'(?) where one is more melee and the other are roaming flamer dudes? Yeah, need to sell me more on the bad dudes cause everything else seems pretty alright.

Orv
May 4, 2011
Yeah a not insignificant draw of doing the Destiny treadmill is getting to look like a space badass, I'm not super excited for a different color leather jacket. That plus the dichotomy of Bungie shooting and enemy AI versus what we're seeing of this, not hopeful is an understatement.

Vitamin P
Nov 19, 2013

Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded

Orv posted:

Yeah a not insignificant draw of doing the Destiny treadmill is getting to look like a space badass, I'm not super excited for a different color leather jacket. That plus the dichotomy of Bungie shooting and enemy AI versus what we're seeing of this, not hopeful is an understatement.

In a semi-real world setting where gear is always going to be a gun, a coat and a maybe a gadget they need to show progression in a different way. Like, if rescuing a family is a quest that also pimps out your base and lets the avatar wear visual keep-sakes increasing their Will To Live stat or something, that would be far far better than a mission that might spawn an MP-4 +6 to Stamina.

Or better yet full on embrace the b-movie and have atmospheric street fights against shamanistic gangers whilst Monsters From The Id are coming out of the sewers.

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.
I guess having a base of operations of your own to level and kit out feeds into that other ways to show progression nicely then.

MUSCULAR BEAVER
Dec 26, 2014

HENDO! HENDO!

he1ixx posted:

That's my take on this too. This isn't a shooter like Ghost Recon, its an RPG. There seems to be a lot of negativity about it which is probably understandable since people seem to have an image of how this game *should* be but it isn't what they came up with in their head. That disconnect is something they will need to overcome to get a player base. I remember a lot of wild ideas about what Destiny would be and the reactions when it wasn't a grand sweeping story etc. People still hate Destiny but I play it every night. I have the feeling this game will be similar.

I don't have a stake in the game other than I like fun and this looks fun to me. Rolling with 3 or 4 friends through missions (and the Dark Zone) looks like fun to me. If it doesn't look like your thing I don't know what to tell you but this is a thread to talk about the game so posting parts of it that looked fun seemed... appropriate?

The point about the endgame was a good one. I am sure they have something planned based on what I heard on their podcast and commentary during some of the feeds from the last week. I am sure they're playing it close to the vest until closer to launch.

AngryJoe commentary and long video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPLATt94n0

The Division Podcast about how the stats and loot work (with the devs)
https://soundcloud.com/thedivisiongame/the-division-podcast-episode-7-sweet-sweet-loot

How the Open World and Fast Travel works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTO2PN8hDAs

Eurogamer Impressions of Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGnUNvnqHoc

Lincoln Tunnel Mission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSmqGGJy7UY

Play at level 20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU-ylFd4Kfw

Dark Zone walkthrough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZQ843nNEfU

I'm really willing to give this game a chance if I get in to the beta, but I'm wary of every single youtuber giving it so much praise as it looks like it will play like every other boring third person cover shooter with low level bullet sponge enemies and sloppy shooting

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
This game was one of which that made me want to buy a PS4. Been waiting for it for a while now and now that's its almost here, I'm just kinda blah about it. Not too blah about it, apparently, as I've been searching these forums and asked about it in the PS4 thread a few days ago. And the reason I'm kind of blah is the damned bullet sponge damage model. I don't give a rats patoot about the RPG aspect of it - which is a source of comedy over on the Division subreddit. Every post about the sponginess of it is met with ITS AN AAARREEPEEEEEGEEE NOT A SHOOOTERRR GO PLAY COD ITS NOT FOR YOU hivemind. I can forgive Uncharted for being a bit spongy but headshots are rewarded with basically a one shot kill.

Reddit is loving weird, by the way, but I digress....

I still preordered it. I still will play the beta. I will play this piece of crap game that could have been awesome if not for a few minor things (crap AI, emptying multiple mags into what looks like a normal trash NPC).

Look me up on PSN...CrimsonTide1125

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

lol assault paramedic

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

TG-Chrono posted:


lol assault paramedic

looks alright.

kinda dig the cop and the firefighter and the paramedic.

played the alpha and it feels like destiny with mass effect 2. not a bad design and it was fun. ill pick it up.




TG-Chrono posted:

Yeah the setting of something like Mass Effect or Destiny allows for really strong visual differences in the factions. I know of two factions in TheDiv so far has shown the 'Rikers' and the 'Cleaners'(?) where one is more melee and the other are roaming flamer dudes? Yeah, need to sell me more on the bad dudes cause everything else seems pretty alright.

there are 3 so far, maybe more in the full game or in add on.

1. regular hoods, criminals, gangbangers, run of the mill generic dudes.

2. rikers, dudes who escaped when rikers fell and formed their own thing,

3. burners, sanitation workers/other people who formed their own militia to deal with the city, by killing and burning everything that isnt them or posibly infected with virus.




muscles like this? posted:

I'm wondering if some of the bullet sponge enemies might have something to do with the nature of the preview builds where they didn't really have upgraded/customized weapons.

this. once you upgrade weapons, level up. you can slaughter the gently caress out of weaker enemies. from what i have scene. alot of areas are split into leveled zones alot like destiny. so level 3 dudes against a level 8 player, get wasted easy. aka like every other rpg.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Pre-ordered this on PS4, figure I'll try the beta and then cancel the pre-order if I don't like it. Or forget to cancel it and then defend my purchase breathlessly on the forums. Either way.

katkillad2
Aug 30, 2004

Awake and unreal, off to nowhere
This feels like Fallout 4 all over again where the opinions of the game turned to poo poo weeks before release and anyone got to play it. I liked Destiny and I liked Mass Effect 2, so sounds like I will probably enjoy this game.

I will say it doesn't look nearly as good as that first trailer we got though.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Yeah, I'm enjoying Destiny, which makes me predisposed towards a Tom Clancy variant of it.

Thor-Stryker
Nov 11, 2005
Bullet sponge enemies remind me of dead island where enemy health at higher levels was so much that it was better to just knockdown and headstomp everything.

They really should have made it so enemy leathality increases with levels, and players have to equip better armor/gear to survive harsher zones. Gunplay and perks could have been designed to make it easier to go into different situations without taking as many bullets to the dome instead of level X gun does this much more damage to enemy with X more health.

SubponticatePoster
Aug 9, 2004

Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.
Slippery Tilde
I just preordered from Amazon to get beta access. I'm a Prime member and you get a discount on the game; price in my cart was like $48. If the beta sucks I'll cancel.

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
There's been rumor that amazon is going to be cracking down on that (preordering, getting the code, then cancelling), so be wary of it.

Hezzy
Dec 4, 2004

Pillbug
If it is any consolation I played the Alpha and thought the combat was quite tactical and challenging.

The enemies I fought weren't bullet sponges, maybe as they grow in level they get a disproportionate amount of HP. Or maybe like somebody said earlier, the people putting out videos didn't have the proper level / properly equipped gun to fight them? The mods can make quite a difference. The low level mods I came across (sub level 10) added things like 5% accuracy, damage, etc. I would imagine that percentage will increase once you get to level 20, which is what people were playing at. Sources indicate that level 30 is the maximum level

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
I think it was mentioned in one of the couple dozen videos that the devs gave them level 20 characters to play with purple weapons. So, not too sure about that. I would have to start watching a bunch of videos to be sure.

What I am pretty sure about is that it didn't look like the guys were taking advantage of certain bonuses to up their damage output. So there is that.

wjs5
Aug 22, 2009
Some of the videos are of the players fighting on hard for the zone they are in which increases the NPC levels. That might also cause spongy enemy.

Randler
Jan 3, 2013

ACER ET VEHEMENS BONAVIS
From the few videos I had time to look at the enemies do not seem that spongey to me. More on the level of most shooters on an above-normal setting and, like the game itself, somewhat comparable to Defiance at launch.

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib

Tide posted:

There's been rumor that amazon is going to be cracking down on that (preordering, getting the code, then cancelling), so be wary of it.

Cracking down how? I don't see how they could

Tide
Mar 27, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

Jerkface posted:

Cracking down how? I don't see how they could

I don't know how either unless publishers are letting amazon know that a beta code has been redeemed.

Snaxx
Apr 5, 2009
From what I played the gunplay felt weak, the atmosphere was great, and the rpg elements were addicting. The dark zone was unique for a AAA console game, and felt like the old Runescape wilderness.

While enemies were a bit spongy, but their ai was actually impressive. They flanked and responded intelligently when they had space to maneuver.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

SubponticatePoster posted:

I just preordered from Amazon to get beta access. I'm a Prime member and you get a discount on the game; price in my cart was like $48. If the beta sucks I'll cancel.

Can you buy digital download from Amazon? I don't see a way to do that, and I don't really do physical games.

Snaxx posted:

From what I played the gunplay felt weak, the atmosphere was great, and the rpg elements were addicting. The dark zone was unique for a AAA console game, and felt like the old Runescape wilderness.

While enemies were a bit spongy, but their ai was actually impressive. They flanked and responded intelligently when they had space to maneuver.

Spongy is easy to tune (though usually tuned the wrong way to stretch content). Gunfeel less so, but I remain hopeful. It won't be as good as Destiny on that front, I'm sure, but hopefully it's still enough to not get in the way of rugged urban survivalist fun.

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fit em all up in there
Oct 10, 2006

Violencia

I forgot I signed up for the Beta after E3. Well I guess I can plop $5 down at GameStop to try the beta.

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