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Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:According to CDC statistics, men outnumber women with regards to reported domestic violence. Given the relative imbalance in domestic violence shelters for men, along with the societal atandard of openly mocking men who show emotional responses to traumatic events, do jokes about "bathing in male tears" and killing men trivialize domestic abuse againat men, and should public places, such as universities offer safe spaces from such potentially triggering words? no, because feminists do not blanket mock men for showing emotion (it is in fact men who enforce toxic masculinity on other men), men often do not need shelters to leave toxic relationships, and the severity of domestic violence inflicted on men is not as bad as that inflicted on women. it's more difficult then to interpret half hearted jokes targeting specific men as being actively harmful to men in the same way that misogyny is harmful against women this is not to say that violence against men doesn't exist or is not a problem, but it's a significantly lesser problem than violence and insulting language against women, much the same way that white people's complaints about racism directed at them are often whiny and vacant
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Jan 14, 2016 22:08
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Helsing posted:I definitely think it's ludicrous when anyone tries to pretend that jokes about "bathing in male tears" are actually going to accomplish anything but by the same token I don't think there's anything here worth getting worked up about. academically it's bad to seek catharsis through little jabs that villanize your ideological opponents, however there's a 100% guarantee that anyone who actively posts on something awful is extremely guilty of this very thing, so yeah who cares yeah it's sad that now people are empowered to turn rhetoric against straight white men that they've been employing against others loudly in public for decades, equality of thought and speech means people get to say insulting and demeaning things against you, and the solution is not to be offended or censor others but to try not to let it bug you so much that radical young feminist women want to bathe in your tears
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Jan 14, 2016 22:22
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Typical Pubbie posted:A far more productive use of one's time would be to disregard everything the feminist has to say. agreed, but somehow people who unironically sort men into 'alphas' and 'betas' get real upset when women do the same thing. it's got more to do with looking sources of outrage than actually helping men in any way. the only word for it is slacktivism
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Jan 14, 2016 23:31
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Environmentalists of the vegan/liberate the oppressed cows type and Maoists are incredibly tiny groups which have never been taken seriously in our society (by which I mean the Western/First World in general). Feminism is pretty damned mainstream. young feminist women who want to bathe in cishet tears isn't an accepted or even recognized part of feminist thought, although it may appear to be to someone whose primary exposure to feminist politics is through tumblr fakeposts
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Jan 14, 2016 23:34
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Even if true that's a disgusting attitude to take, because there are real victims who happen to be men and deserve just as much support as any other human. The recent turn towards us v them across the political spectrum, where certain groups are "good" and some are "bad", is both counterproductive and stupid. let's not conflate people pseudononymously joking about hurting men's feelings on the internet with some alleged general tendency in feminism to discount male domestic abuse. while the OP seems to draw a link between youtube commends and the dismissal of female-on-male partner violence i'm not entirely sure that there is a valid causal or even thematic link between these two concepts TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:People are not statistics, they are people. If people joke about men being raped do you think a male victim is going to go "well looking at the stats this is a trivial issue for men so I won't be hurt by this"? No, of course not- if we say joking about rape hurts women there's no reason at all to suspect it wouldn't do the same for a man. people irl gleefully joke about and even encourage prison rape for criminals all of the time, this is far more prevalent than whatever people might be saying in some obscure blog. jokes about male on male rape are widespread and have nothing to do with feminism in the slightest, nor gender equality. it's a vengeance thing boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 23:52
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Sethex posted:Deflect ideological criticism by pretending that your ideological identity doesn't exist. i'm not deflecting ideological criticism, i'm pointing out how it's rooted in ignorance Sethex posted:I agree, feminism shouldn't be about equality. feminism is about equality! but trying to inflate internet insults to the point where they serve as some kind of mortal threat to Manhood isn't about actual equality, it's about attempting to inherit persecution as an excuse to be a giant whiny baby Sethex posted:K OP so you are the person whose tears internet women want to bathe in, because you provide them easily and freely if you're pushed into the MRA camp because random people tangentially make fun of an abstract concept you identify with, and this causes you to refactor your perception of gender roles, then uh you were pretty much hanging around outside of the camp already waiting for someone to notice you pal boner confessor fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 02:16
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Sethex posted:Looking into my posting history is a pretty clear symptom of rustled jimmies, maybe try some anti-depressing life pills an a hug box? i dont think i could have put it better myself, why ironic misandry is inconsequential to actual problems this is not to trivialize any real problems people face irl! but boy howdy do people get mad as hell over fake rear end internet culture wars
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Jan 15, 2016 05:34
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menino posted:Patriarchy is harmful to both men and women, and of course especially to women. But that still means that tens of millions of men are harmed by it. That's something you don't see on Jezebel or Wonkette or any of the surface level 'anger disguised as feminism' sites that get the most eyeballs. There is zero sympathy for what men go through in public discourse. it's really rampant misandry, the way that women's media never talks about men's issues. why jezebel should talk about female-on-male domestic violence as often as playboy or ESPN does. and when is men's history month???
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Mar 4, 2016 03:42
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menino posted:When what you see as feminism is just topics that make educated women in Manhattan angry, or signalling from Everydayfeminism on how to appear like a more enlightened liberal (EDUCATE YOURSELF!) it leaves you with the impression that feminism is a crock that is confusing egoism with a concern for egalitarian principles. See: most Hillary pieces by Amanda Marcotte, Sady Doyle, and Jessica Valenti. this is a really convincing and well sourced argument that in no way reflects some weird hangup about women who have opinions that you dont like I can see how you are totally justified in getting pissed at cosmopolitan for not focusing on male sexuallity while ignoring the maxims of the world. i am confident that you have an accurate perception of the media landscape that is not at all shaped by your personal and emotional biases menino posted:I think that feminism is needed and that gendered arguments about how women are treated in our society are necessary. But these particular women writers are all about lifestyle. They see a lovely system and think that the only problem is that women aren't running it. jezebel - a lifestyle blog with a predominantly female readership - is focused too heavily on women's lifestyles??? perish the thought can you demonstrate that jezebel is actually some kind of font of active feminism, and not just a blog about fashion and current events and other topics young women are interested in which you are weakly confusing for feminism?
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Mar 4, 2016 05:21
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menino posted:Again you're projecting. I think Maxim is far worse than Jezebel. If push came to shove I'd go with Jezebel over any of those lad magazines. So quick to jump in with some dogshit false equivalence psychoanalysis, it's like you just have a quiver of crappy arguments to just throw out and fail to read. much like i'm not sure you know what 'feminism' actually is, i don't know if you know what 'projecting' or 'false equivalency' actually is either feminism is a set of political and social ideologies that focus on equality between the sexes. jezebel is a lifestyle blog published by gawker media with a predominantly female readership. wonkette is a satirical political blog founded by a woman. if anything written by women, for women, is actually at the forefront of feminism, what does that say about the majority of media out there written by men, for men? the fact that you cannot honestly answer this question without getting extremely upset with me for asking it says all that anyone needs to know about your opinions re: women's media or women's opinions Who What Now posted:Yea, these particular unnamed and ambiguous women sure are a big problem all right. somewhere on the internet, a woman is wrong, and this is a huge stumbling block for feminism because
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Mar 4, 2016 05:36
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really i'm just making fun of you for confusing blogs that say things you don't like with feminism, and then getting mad at feminism for not talking about issues that matter to you, which is clearly evidenced by the absence of material acceptable to you on blogs for which you are not the target audience it's just a really breathtaking, airtight argument
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Mar 4, 2016 05:43
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menino posted:I'm not indicting feminism as a whole. I cited specific sites and writers. and i don't see how those sites can be accurately described as 'feminist' in any way other than the people who read and write for them are generally accepting of feminism. you then dinged websites which write about celebrities, fashion, viral videos, and other stuff in addition to political current events for not writing about male issues as if that's some active exclusion on ideological grounds instead of, you know, not one of the hundreds of topics the blog generally doesn't cover by your extremely low standard of what is representative of gender politics, i could equally describe ESPN as masculinist for its lack of focus on female issues. you immediately rejected this reflection of your argument because you don't realize your argument is absurd
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Mar 4, 2016 06:09
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menino posted:I'm not expecting them to cover men's issues. I'm expecting less contempt and derision. E: Same from NYMag, Slate, Guardian. Now you can play no true Scotsman with these sources and say that they are not actually feminist and in some ways I would absolutely agree. But for better or for worse these are actually very popular feminist branded portals with certain classes are you sure this is actual contempt and derision and not just some personal sensitivity on your part, because i'm not seeing it despite you constantly asserting that it is so
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Mar 4, 2016 06:17
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menino posted:Are you sure that you haven't substituted "hey think you have some issues buddy *smrik*" for an argument because it seems like that is all you are capable of posting. alright, if you don't want to address this glaring flaw in your argument then i guess i'll let it go
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Mar 4, 2016 06:35
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:reductress is pretty cool and good tho uhh my av picked up a trojan embedded on that site? misandry 
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Mar 4, 2016 14:35
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Blue Star posted:Does anyone have any proof that men are chastized for showing emotion or being vulnerable? It seems to be a common belief but i've never seen it. Men don't get criticized for crying or showing emotional vulnerability; women do! It's women who have to control their emotions at all times, but men can just express whatever and there's always a good excuse for it. If a woman cries, people think "oh typical women, they can't control themselves", but if a man cries people are like "Oh that poor man, he's very brave for showing his vulnerability". Women have to keep a lid on their emotions all the time, and consequently they're actually better at controlling their emotions. typically, men are chastized by other men for being womanly, which is obviously women's fault (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 7, 2016 03:55
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Blue Star posted:I don't think so. I don't think anyone chastises men for showing emotions, not even other men. go post in AI about how you like to drive around picking up women in your Miata and see what they have to say about that
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Mar 7, 2016 17:02
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the trump tutelage posted:I like that the "Does ironic misandry trivialize the suffering of domestic abuse victims?" thread is unironically debating the existence of toxic masculinity. toxic masculinity is far more real and far more damaging than women posting "lol i want to murder all the men #MurderDicks" on twitter
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Mar 7, 2016 18:54
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wiregrind posted:yeah, I mean those complaining should just suck it up already... it's fine to complain about random people's internet opinions but it's pretty, weird, to build from that into rampant and violent misandry i mean there are lots of not-internet, irl examples of entrenched misogyny but when it comes time to talk about how women damage men it's like "jezebel! cosmo! i got yelled at on tumblr once!"
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Mar 7, 2016 22:15
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Talmonis posted:I'd not claim violent misandry in my experience, ever. But the dismissal and trivializing of any emotional concerns I or other men have is a common occurance. Especially here, if you end up on the wrong end of whatever topic. "Your Fee-Fees" are often mocked and derided. i'm not dismissing anyone emotions any more than is necessary to point out that you can't build coherent observations of society or politics based entirely on an emotional reaction to someone else's opinions, which is something i point out all the time. i picked up this red text av because i was trying to throw water on a bunch of goons calling for blood during the bundy standoff
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Mar 7, 2016 22:30
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Railtus posted:Ergo we must live in a patriarchy that benefits men at the expense of women, and the downsides for men must be minor and trivial and not worth talking about. If talking about those downsides is unavoidable, such in this thread, such talking must be limited to constant reminders that men are to blame for any downsides. is women's freedom of speech to say #KillAllMen really a downside for men? it hardly seems like a downside, at the end of the day i am not dead because of internet words i mean gamergate was only so bad because it was backed up with actual targeted death threats towards women, if it was just general background grousing about women as most nerd forums tend to be then nobody would have cared
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Mar 8, 2016 03:45
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the trump tutelage posted:Like I said, if your ironic edginess requires a parenthetical that explains you're not actually talking about the entire group but rather a specific subset of the group then maybe you're the problem, not the person misinterpreting what you're saying. It doesn't matter if #KillAllMen doesn't have the same weight as an antisemitic remark, it still normalizes the idea of collective punishment along in-group/out-group lines. It's humorous only because of the power imbalance and the knowledge that the threat is impotent. Shrink that power imbalance (never mind reversing it) and the jokes get a lot more uncomfortable. Nobody would be laughing if black people started tweeting #DieSpicScum. you're right about this, #KillAllMen would probably carry more weight as a threat if there had ever at any point in history been a sustained program of violence and oppression targeted at men in general
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Mar 8, 2016 04:27
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nigga crab pollock posted:you do realize that continuously arguing that men cannot be victimized by social norms because they were not specifically targeted by those norms is giving evidence to most the arguments in this thread, right? really i'm just making fun of people who want to equate mean spirited hashtags with racially motivated murder, like the guy who posted " Shrink that power imbalance (never mind reversing it) and the jokes get a lot more uncomfortable. Nobody would be laughing if black people started tweeting #DieSpicScum." there's just an unsustainable amount of hyperbole that goes into moving some of the arguments in this thread nigga crab pollock posted:i guess all those gay lynchings were just regular ol' murders then how many straight men get gay lynched or, in other words what about anti-gay violence is targeted at men in general i mean doesn't it kind of prove my point that i can say "there's no sustained level of violence that targets all men just because they're men" without people talking about subclasses like "but racial minorities! sexual minorities! religious minorities! men who were forced to serve in combat!" like thanks for accidentally agreeing with me i guess
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Mar 8, 2016 06:54
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nigga crab pollock posted:lol that the thread about how discussion of domestic abuse towards men is deflected and belittled is being actively derailed and dismissed well, yeah. i just don't see the actual looming harm done to men by women speaking opinions on the internet, and people don't seem capable of explaining why it's bad that women say mean things about the male gender in an offhand way without people itt going off on tangents about genocide i'm just not seeing how blog posts and hashtags are indicative of a social disregard for male domestic abuse victims. it seems like a great big leap from one to the other that's largely touted by people who for one reason or another have a chip on their shoulder re: females the reason nobody's really discussing actual domestic abuse is that 99% of people agree domestic abuse is Bad, and we don't really need a thread where we voice our opposition to domestic abuse
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Mar 8, 2016 06:59
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