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Popular Thug Drink posted:detroit has lost over a million residents since deindustrialization began. and the infrastructure to take care of that many people still exists. detroit has full water, sewer, and public electric provision to places that look like this:
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Jan 19, 2016 06:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's clearly a solution looking for a problem. Detroit could become a refugee-to-American processing camp, home to a million and possibly more refugees from the Middle East and elsewhere. Hasn't that historically been Guam in the past? It makes more sense to keep a large group of refugees you need to run background checks and acclimate to the culture somewhere geographically limited where they can't just wander off.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:38
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DeathSandwich posted:Hasn't that historically been Guam in the past? It makes more sense to keep a large group of refugees you need to run background checks and acclimate to the culture somewhere geographically limited where they can't just wander off. That's worked out great for Australia
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Jan 19, 2016 21:08
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Dearborn has a lot of Arab Americans and Hamtramck elected a majority Muslim city council, this could have legs
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Jan 20, 2016 01:53
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https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/15/flin-j15.html?view=article_mobilequote:This is what happened according to Edwards: “In the next five days the City collected 30 samples, all of which were below the action level, and did not reach the 100 sample target. If all 71 collected samples were counted, the City would have exceeded the 15 ppb action level.Federal law would then require that Flint residents be provided information about how to protect themselves and their children from lead in water .” The MDEQ knowingly minimized lead in their samples, did not collect enough samples, and strong armed any hint of dissent. So what was the reason for doing this, killing up to 10 people with legionairre's disease and giving an unknown number of children some degree of brain damage? Uh...
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Jan 20, 2016 02:11
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Psycho Society posted:The MDEQ knowingly minimized lead in their samples, did not collect enough samples, and strong armed any hint of dissent.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's clearly a solution looking for a problem. Detroit could become a refugee-to-American processing camp, home to a million and possibly more refugees from the Middle East and elsewhere. the detroit area is already a favorite of refugees, the big problem tho is that people left that area because there's no jobs and also the climate is bullshit
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Jan 20, 2016 06:45
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Blowdryer posted:(hint: racism and punishing liberal minority-majority cities with long histories of labor activism, also removing the 'undesirables' so they can remake Detroit in their own image. Ever heard of the Detroit Future City plan)?
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Jan 20, 2016 07:15
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Blowdryer posted:Copy pasting because someone asked about this in USPol and I bookmarked it. Er... I'm not sure if it's the result of a botched copy paste job but pretty much all of those link don't work. Edit: yeah, it was a result of the copy paste. Can't seem to quote the original post (at least on awful app) so Here's a link. InequalityGodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 01:17
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BlackIronHeart posted:It's a bit more complicated and hosed up than that. The Detroit Free Press has written about it quite a bit. In short, welcome to the Snyder-ation; "gently caress you and do what I tell you, god drat it!" rscott posted:When people ask me why the gently caress I moved to Kansas it's because I used to live in Flint Well, not for lack of trying. Seems Flint has a really bad image including a horrid crime rate and no one wants to sink money into that shithole. I live about 20 miles east of flint and we're getting some of the sprawling violence here. Recently over the last two years there's been a number of domestic violence calls and gunfire mostly from people who moved out of flint SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 01:26
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This article I'm reading in The Economist says that treating the river-water to make it safe for the pipes would have cost a hundred dollars a day. The next time someone calls themselves a "financial conservative" in my presence, I may not be able to fully retain my composure.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:49
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ayn rand hand job posted:Centralia isn't a superfund site and Flint is approx 100x the population of Centralia at its peak, so probably never. Eh, do it like Pripyat. Tell everyone they're being evacuated for 3 days, line up busses, get them all out, shoot the pets, hose down the tires and never let them go back till Flint has been reclaimed by nature. Play our cards right we can turn it into a desolate tourist hotspot too
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Jan 25, 2016 02:17
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SocketWrench posted:Eh, do it like Pripyat. Tell everyone they're being evacuated for 3 days, line up busses, get them all out, shoot the pets, hose down the tires and never let them go back till Flint has been reclaimed by nature. Play our cards right we can turn it into a desolate tourist hotspot too I don't think it would have the same appeal if the town was already halfway reclaimed by nature before the evacuation.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:39
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Doc Hawkins posted:The next time someone calls themselves a "financial conservative" in my presence, I may not be able to fully retain my composure.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:43
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Edit: Thought better of posting this.
CommanderApaul fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 02:52
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I would like to thank the citizens of Michigan for their unflagging efforts to support arguments that people who think government is bad will govern badly, but really, you've done enough, please stop.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:55
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The most annoying part of this is that Rick Snyder keeps saying that he promises to "fix it" but lead poisoning is not fixable.
Salt Fish fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 05:03
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SocketWrench posted:Well, not for lack of trying. Seems Flint has a really bad image including a horrid crime rate and no one wants to sink money into that shithole. lead poisoning tends to increase violent acts and behavior. good thing gov snyder is trying to help flint with their image problems
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Jan 25, 2016 05:14
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Condiv posted:lead poisoning tends to increase violent acts and behavior. good thing gov snyder is trying to help flint with their image problems
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Jan 25, 2016 08:45
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Well, does the water at least taste good? Romans loved fruit syrup from fruits boiled in lead cauldrons, because the lead made it taste sweeter.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:27
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The Romans also thought drinking an athlete's sweat and piss gave them their vitality. Do we have anyone in today's day and age who can confirm this?
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Jan 25, 2016 20:57
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Regalingualius posted:The Romans also thought drinking an athlete's sweat and piss gave them their vitality. Well, its not MY fetish but I know a guy...
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Jan 25, 2016 21:00
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Blowdryer posted:Copy pasting because someone asked about this in USPol and I bookmarked it. How persuasive should I find the explanatory power of this? I want to believe
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Jan 26, 2016 16:44
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Well, does the water at least taste good? Romans loved fruit syrup from fruits boiled in lead cauldrons, because the lead made it taste sweeter. Probably? Lead acetate tastes sweet, which is why kids like to stuff paint chips down their mouth.
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Jan 26, 2016 21:48
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FilthyImp posted:Just think of all the money being spent on the fallout of all this. And the delicious, delicious lawsuits that are going to be spawned, much less the healthcare costs. Profit for the Profit God
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Jan 27, 2016 01:07
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Iowa Snow King posted:Profit for the Profit God That's a strange way to spell "blood for the blood god". (  is that they're the same thing.)
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Jan 27, 2016 02:22
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I love how part of the problem is two non-elected dictators running Detroit and Flint, couldn't reach a financial agreement with one another. This is Rick Snyder's leadership. He personally placed both individuals and they got in a pissing match that ended with Flint pulling away and going to a lovely backup water source. It doesn't even succeed as fascism. Fascists at least work in lock-step. This is just comical everyone-for-themself backbiting, the likes of which is typically seen in popular depictions of the armies of Hell.
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Jan 27, 2016 12:02
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Veryslightlymad posted:Fascists at least work in lock-step. This is just comical everyone-for-themself backbiting, the likes of which is typically seen in popular depictions of the armies of Hell.
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Jan 27, 2016 12:11
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Someone help me understand the conservative defense of this - the right has been blaming this on the EPA not saying anything or doing anything until it was too late. To what extent is this true, and to what extent does it matter? Is it more, "City manager was instated which was a bad idea, and made bad choices that set everything in motion, so he is first to blame, but the EPA did not do enough to alert?" The easy answer I'm sure around DnD is "the right wing is lying straight up." but I want to understand the EPA argument a little more
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Jan 27, 2016 12:34
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That's not really true as far as I understand. Nazi Germany was rife with petty rivalries, centered around gaining the favor of Hitler. Ssshhhhhh. (But yeah, they totally tried to kill Hitler once it was clear he was nuts and his plan was a complete disaster.) EDIT SgtScruffy posted:Someone help me understand the conservative defense of this - the right has been blaming this on the EPA not saying anything or doing anything until it was too late. To what extent is this true, and to what extent does it matter? The EPA reported a while ago that there were serious concerns about the water levels, but it either got covered up or lost in the shuffle of generalized dumbassery. To save face, the one side is proclaiming that it was definitely a cover up and therefor no fault whatsoever can be placed at the feet of our glorious god-emperor Snyder. Listening to my dad go on about this nonsense really opens my eyes to just how refined the Republican bullshit machine is. Everyone should resign or face prison charges or both. Across party lines. It's been pointed out that if the Michigan Government were ISIS this would be the single most successful attack they've ever staged on a Western target. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 12:54
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FilthyImp posted:Just think of all the money being spent on the fallout of all this. And the delicious, delicious lawsuits that are going to be spawned, much less the healthcare costs. Don't forget, it is very likely no private individual's pockets will get dinged. All the compensation will come out of public coffers. Anyway, good article on 538: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-went-wrong-in-flint-water-crisis-michigan/ Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 14:19
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SgtScruffy posted:Someone help me understand the conservative defense of this - the right has been blaming this on the EPA not saying anything or doing anything until it was too late. To what extent is this true, and to what extent does it matter? The EPA is a fairly fractured agency. There's the overarching EPA based in DC, that runs the research and testing laboratories for the major program offices like the Office of Research and Development, Office of Water, Office of Air and Radiation, etc. They set national policy and respond to things like the BP Oil Spill, Superfund sites, that sort of thing. That constitutes about 60% of the agency staffing and the really large facilities in DC, RTP North Carolina, Cincinnati, etc. The rest of the agency is broken down into 10 Regional Offices that more or less have autonomy from headquarters, that work with state- and local-level environmental agencies on polices, procedures, small-scale testing protocols, and things like that. Flint was handled by Region 5, and there's some rumblings of something going on between the local, state and EPA Region 5 that culminated last week with the Region 5 Administrator resigning, followed shortly by the head of the agency putting out "if you see something that is a critical public health issue you have a duty to escalate it if you feel it is not being acted upon." The general consensus that I've heard is that the local and state agencies collected bad data and Region 5 didn't do it's due diligence at some level to verify that the data was good and just rubber stamped what they were given. The HQ-run offices are gearing up bigtime to respond to this. There are comparisons to the BP Oil Spill response being thrown around.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:46
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This is really sad and shameful. Like it's easy to lose perspective about this and that incident du jour but this REALLY shouldn't happen in a first world nation.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:56
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pangstrom posted:This is really sad and shameful. Like it's easy to lose perspective about this and that incident du jour but this REALLY shouldn't happen in a first world nation. The American right wing is desperately trying to shove the U.S. out of the first world.
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Jan 27, 2016 16:46
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Regarding that earlier post about the Flint City Council, that was just Earley trying to shift blame:538 Article footnotes posted:Earley has written that the switch to Flint River water was based on a Flint City Council vote. There is no evidence to suggest the City Council voted on the temporary water switch, though it did vote to join the pipeline, and two City Council members and then-Mayor Dayne Walling told me they did not make the decision to switch to river water. Either way, Earley was the one who could ultimately make that decision, and he signed the request to the state treasurer to do so.
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Jan 27, 2016 17:03
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So thread, what will come first, the report from UN observers, or federal action? Anyway, it's worth noting that snyder gave some company their own water service because the acid/heavy metals/salt in the river was corroding their machines and had caused injuries.
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Jan 27, 2016 17:12
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That's not really true as far as I understand. Nazi Germany was rife with petty rivalries, centered around gaining the favor of Hitler. Yeah, you are correct. And Imperial Japan was even more of a basket case with lower level officers outright assassinating politicians / ministers / officers viewed as not aggressive enough, and the Army and Navy being completely unable to cooperate and being outright hostile to each other. The Army drafted civilians who worked for the Navy (people involved in shipbuilding and airplane manufacturing, even with highly specialized skills) and the Navy didn't tell the Army about the defeat at Midway until more than a year (or two?) later and intentionally splitting up the survivors of Midway to keep the story from spreading. The insanity currently going on in Sears is the corporate equivalent of this type of leadership. The appearance of competence and lockstep in the ideology is more important than actual results, until the system comes crashing down. Veryslightlymad posted:Listening to my dad go on about this nonsense really opens my eyes to just how refined the Republican bullshit machine is. The right wing echo chamber and outrage machine is very, very thorough and does operate in a lockstep fashion. It's funny thinking back to the "journo-list" scandal early in Obama's first term where liberal journalists were accused of coordinating their reporting and stories through an internet mailing list, given how day-to-day reporting by the right wing media is obviously coordinated to a ridiculous degree. To be perfectly blunt, anyone still identifying as Republican would have to be entrenched in the propaganda because that's the only way to look at Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Oklahoma, Kansas and the Bush administration and not want to have more competent leadership in place, or alternatively views the messes they create as somehow good because it affects minorities/liberals more. ErichZahn posted:Anyway, it's worth noting that snyder gave some company their own water service because the acid/heavy metals/salt in the river was corroding their machines and had caused injuries. This alone should sink him (at least force him to loving resign) in any sane system since it shows they were well aware of the water quality issues, but considering the crazy level of racism in Michigan and hatred of Flint/Detroit I doubt that will happen.
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Jan 27, 2016 19:49
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Pervis posted:To be perfectly blunt, anyone still identifying as Republican would have to be entrenched in the propaganda because that's the only way to look at Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Oklahoma, Kansas and the Bush administration and not want to have more competent leadership in place, or alternatively views the messes they create as somehow good because it affects minorities/liberals more. The comments I hear from Republicans/Libertarians in Michigan is an acceptance of Snyder as bad (I don't think I've heard anyone defend him, though I admit I generally talk to people between 25-35 so maybe the older groups are still trying), but that it's still capital-g Government and just more proof that the government can't be trusted to handle anything and is inherently corrupt.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:03
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Hahahahaha. Oh man, this is just classic Snyder. If Blagovich went to jail for massive corruption, Snyder deserves the loving chair. At least Blago didn't kill anyone.quote:The governor is dispatching his fixer and confidant, Rich Baird, to Flint to help coordinate the state response and to reassure the city’s elected leaders of direct, daily contact with the governor’s office. And who is Rich Baird? A seriously slimy motherfucker, that's who. Electablog posted:Baird has long been Snyder’s “right hand man”, enjoying a position in the governor’s Executive Office and listed as his “Transformation Manager”...
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Jan 27, 2016 22:04
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Someone really needs to shove a funnel down the governor's throat and force him to drink his poo poo water. 
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Jan 28, 2016 01:12
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