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Slavvy posted:Bmw are quite fond of liquid cooled alternators too. And let's not forget their computer controlled thermostat malarkey and the plastic electric water pumps that fail with depressing regularity and the hydraulic lifters that somehow airlock if you don't thrash the car enough. And a "replace the battery at each oil change" fuel economy fuckup.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:17
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buttcrackmenace posted:Jaw hit desk at vacuum actuated hydraulic motor mounts A lot of Accords have these, doesn't seem that bloody-minded compared to some things on that list. 
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Jan 22, 2016 05:07
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Oh man, the W8 wagon! The coolest, most ridiculous wagon since the Colony Park went out of production. I've had a 04 V6 AWD Passat wagon since new. Mostly highway miles on it and aside from regular maintenance*, two literal fender benders of the car being hit while parked, and the alternator dying while I was 500 miles from home last summer, I've never had any trouble with it. I have the paper Bentley manual that has all the insane wiring diagrams, if you need something I'll be happy to scan the relevant pages for you. If you have the AWD and notice a weird one-time shudder at part throttle and low speed while going up a medium incline (like, say, after a stop light on an uphill road, or on entering a parking garage), that is 'normal' as far as I can tell. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it, and the Golf. The wagon is a dynamite highway cruiser, although maybe the milage leaves something to be desired compared to newer direct-injection cars. * - flushing the transmission, replacing the timing and pcv 'consumables', at 80k miles, all of which require removing the front bumper and specialty tools that I do not have - changing the headlight bulbs, all of which require removing the front bumper and specialty tools that I do not have (tiny tiny tiny hands)
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Jan 22, 2016 05:48
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buttcrackmenace posted:Jaw hit desk at vacuum actuated hydraulic motor mounts More common than you think. I know Honda has used them since the 90s on the Accord, and a lot of Toyota 1MZ-FEs got them too. Elmnt80 posted:Caddy also experimented with a water cooled alternator on one of their engines in the late 90s to early 2000s. edit: huh, a bit of digging shows it was 98-00 only randomidiot fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 06:29
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My old sts had an air cooled alternator. I think it was on select models though
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Jan 22, 2016 06:48
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some texas redneck posted:More common than you think. I know Honda has used them since the 90s on the Accord, and a lot of Toyota 1MZ-FEs got them too Liquid motor mounts are pretty popular (Subaru insists on using them even though they are useless and burst - a much worse vibration than just worn rubber would be). I doubt anyone other than the Germans has thought to make an adjustable, vacuum actuated hydraulic motor mount though.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:48
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Liquid motor mounts are pretty popular (Subaru insists on using them even though they are useless and burst - a much worse vibration than just worn rubber would be). Honda have used active motor mounts https://www.hondarandd.jp/point.php?pid=73&lang=en but theirs are electrohydraulic not vacuum hydraulic It's used as a part of their Variable Cylinder Management thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Cylinder_Management) that lets them run a V6 as a V4 or a V3. Active damping on the motor mounts stops the engine from jumping all over the place in 4cyl and 3cyl mode
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Jan 22, 2016 22:45
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The W8. It is in the garage. The W8 is pretty         This was a bit of a bummer. This is the wheel that had been on the side of the collision and it appears to have a bit of a bimp. I took the wagon up to ~85 on the freeway and there was a slight rumble, it might be this, it might not.  REVEAL YOUR SECRETS  mmhmm.  okay.  ohhhhhkayyyyyyyyy. Bit of work to do. Seems the heater doesn't work when it gets REALLY COLD outside and these codes may provide me with a bit of insight. Regarding the rest of the car, I've never driven a high-performance automobile, and the last 8-cylinder vehicle I drove was the 301 in my 1981 Oldsmobile 98. This station wagon hauls. rear end. Never before and possibly never again will I be so confident of putting the hammer down and passing every dumb rear end in a top hat on the road in something so understated you wouldn't believe it if you weren't there. Full-time 4-wheel drive, sticks to the road, goes real quick. This thing is awesome. It ticks the practicality, comfort, and excitement boxes. I am mounting a strong case on both sides of the "should I keep it" argument. Pops did a knock-out job on the body panel work and it looks brand new. After a few months of tracking down electrical gremlins, there'd be no surprise that I couldn't wait to get rid of this thing. Honeymoon's still on, though. We'll see how she manages. I have a free evening tomorrow so research is a-go.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:21
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Those latter two codes refer to the heater circuits in the O2 sensor(s), which have nothing to do with climate control. A narrowband (and probably wideband too) O2 sensor only works within a very narrow temperature range, so in order to make sure that they work quickly after a cold start the car runs the heater circuit on the O2 sensor to pre-warm the reactory bit so it can get to operating temperature faster. If you are chucking that code generally it means one of two things:
Since Bank 2/Sensor 2 is probably the post-cat O2 sensor, I would be tempted to multimeter the harness before you get into high speed parts swapping mode. The post-cat sensor in pretty much every car has a mile of wiring in front of it; plenty of opportunities to get severed by an exhaust heat shield or caught in a spinning bit of some kind. It would be bad to spend a hundo-plus on a new sensor before figuring out that twelve cents of wiring and solder would have fixed it. If the O2 sensor has never been replaced in the car's lifetime I would assume it is the sensor. O2 sensors are a lot like spark plugs - as they age they start getting squirrelly rather than dying altogether. Usually the heater circuit failing is your first indication of a near-dead O2 sensor. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 06:13
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scuz posted:It ticks the practicality, Wait, stop there. Also wtf is a thermostat heater circuit? Do I want to know? Did VAG design some crazy poo poo that doesn't need to exist?
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Jan 25, 2016 07:28
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scuz posted:I am mounting a strong case on both sides of the "should I keep it" argument. Well then don't ever listen to youtube videos of straight pipe W8 motors.... (here are some youtube videos of straight pipe W8 motors) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ZGUcWKuhQ&t=90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoFPHOAzOMU&t=158s LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 07:44
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literally a fish posted:Honda have used active motor mounts https://www.hondarandd.jp/point.php?pid=73&lang=en but theirs are electrohydraulic not vacuum hydraulic They used them on the plain jane 4 cylinder Accord too, but only on the automatic - and definitely since at least 1998. Not sure if it was only the USDM Accord or the global Accord (which was sold here as the Acura TSX). And they're vacuum operated, not electric, on the 98-02.
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Jan 25, 2016 09:10
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SSS is right... I knew the "check engine light on because of hvac system" thing seemed a little weird/fishy/too bad to be true/too good to be true. Good luck, hope it doesn't involve pulling the engine?
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Jan 25, 2016 13:42
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That o2 sensor info is handy SSS, I just passed my wife's Vauxhall corsa on to my mum and it's giving that code. This thread made me chuck w8 into the eBay UK for a laugh, just to see if any were going cheap enough to make up for the litany of potential problems. I found this gem..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/111884659989 quote:this is a veary nice car 
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Jan 25, 2016 14:25
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Slavvy posted:Wait, stop there. Some modern cars, and I'm aware of both VAG and BMW products that do this, have electronically controlled thermostats. The car can run at a higher water temperature when cruising and cooler when pinning it. The ECU achieves this by goosing an old school wax thermostat with an electric heater element. I guess the idea is that combustion works better (higher efficiency) the closer you get to a 230F temperature but you need to also drop that temperature to prevent detonation under big throttle events. Probably also some cold-start benefits? http://www.counterman.com/electrically-assisted-thermostat-smarter-way-greater-engine-efficiency/ Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 14:52
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So yet again more german engineering in which we combine water with electricity? I see no problems here!
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Jan 25, 2016 14:54
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So I went looking on the internet for info on W8 O2 sensor changing and found this gem of a thread. I can't look away. The OP is an insufferable oval office AND a retard, and has no idea what he is doing. Some of the other posters are no better, some are smart though. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/volkswagen-passat-b5-discussion/325957-2003-passat-w8-running-rough-throwing-up-codes-again.html
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Jan 25, 2016 16:03
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kastein posted:So I went looking on the internet for info on W8 O2 sensor changing and found this gem of a thread. I can't look away. The OP is an insufferable oval office AND a retard, and has no idea what he is doing. Some of the other posters are no better, some are smart though. Holy poo poo the resolution to that. loving 
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Jan 25, 2016 17:03
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EVERYWHERE 
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Those latter two codes refer to the heater circuits in the O2 sensor(s), which have nothing to do with climate control. LloydDobler posted:Well then don't ever listen to youtube videos of straight pipe W8 motors....  In all honesty, there's no way I'd be able to keep this thing, much as I'd like to. I'm trying to get a carfax report on the thing to see what's been done to it, but that's gonna be a stretch. I know what pops has done, but I'm thinking things like tie rod ends and those sorts of things haven't been done on this car in well forever.stump posted:That o2 sensor info is handy SSS, I just passed my wife's Vauxhall corsa on to my mum and it's giving that code. kastein posted:SSS is right... I knew the "check engine light on because of hvac system" thing seemed a little weird/fishy/too bad to be true/too good to be true.  kastein posted:So I went looking on the internet for info on W8 O2 sensor changing and found this gem of a thread. I can't look away. The OP is an insufferable oval office AND a retard, and has no idea what he is doing. Some of the other posters are no better, some are smart though. scuz fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 17:20
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scuz posted:I read somewhere that in order to get to the O2 sensors, you DO need to pull the engine. Did VW build this car to see just how far they could go before their fanboys would abandon them? If they're tucked that far inside, I would replace the sensors and trace the harness back. Chances are someone pushed the wires off some retaining clip over the years and the harness has rubbed against a heat shield.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:25
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Did VW build this car to see just how far they could go before their fanboys would abandon them?
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Jan 25, 2016 17:28
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I noticed on the drive home (~40 or so highway miles) that the steering is a bit clunky, much like the steering was on the Golf before I replaced the tie rod ends and the suspension etc. A small victory: that poo poo isn't any more expensive than the Golf's! Unless I want it to be! I might! bennyfactor posted:Oh man, the W8 wagon! The coolest, most ridiculous wagon since the Colony Park went out of production.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:34
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If its like the second gen A8s you'd probably have to atleast tilt the engine to get at the O2 sensors.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:37
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scuz posted:Well the dude that kastein linked to seems to thing differently about the removing-the-engine bit with the O2 sensors. As dopey as that guy is, that bit of info may have saved me a considerable amount of work. I'm hoping the same, for your sake, but remember he lives in florida ( ) and you're in minnesota as I recall. Rustbelt may kick your rear end on this one, I dunno.Seems like a really cool engine, so I'm glad you want to save it. Just afraid it may gently caress you over for your efforts... good luck!
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Jan 25, 2016 17:39
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kastein posted:I'm hoping the same, for your sake, but remember he lives in florida ( Something else pops told me: he suspects that the POs didn't use premium fuel in the W8 so he's been running his own brand on homemade SeaFoam through it ever other fill-up. It's got like marvel mystery oil, fuel injector cleaner, and like three other weird things that he mixes up in half-gallon mason jars. I'd love to be able to get this thing back to running as tip-top as it could, but it might be out of my benefactor's pay range. Or he might just not care, who knows.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:44
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Well we might know why the O2 sensors and/or cats aren't functioning correctly now...
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Jan 25, 2016 17:46
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Yep  If I pull the sensors and they're all gunked-up, is there a way to clean them that isn't completely asinine? It'd be temporary in any case. If I clean them and check them after like three thousand miles or something and they're still clean, awesome, I'll just get new ones and call it a day. If they get re-gunked, I'll be up a motherfuckin creek.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:50
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If anything in his mystery skookum choocher mix had metals in it, like zinc (ZDDP additive...) or lead (tetraethyl lead in old leaded gas) or possibly other metals, it probably poisoned the converters or sensors. If not, it may have just gooped them up and driving it like you stole it will clear any residue off well enough. I'd give it an italian tuneup after getting the maybe-contaminated fuel out, then see how it acts. E: they are heater circuit codes not o2 function codes, so this may not help, but it can't really hurt. E2: if SSS is right and those are downstreams check the wiring, throw new sensors in, and see what happens. If they fight you coming out run an m18x1.5 tap through the bungs and blast clean with brakleen before installing new sensors. kastein fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 18:14
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scuz posted:A cursory check over the body in the dark revealed no body rust and it's been off the roads for the last few years. I haven't checked the underside, so there's probably plenty of crap down there. HAHAHA WHAT THE gently caress? Seriously, the poo poo people do to their cars is loving amazing. Good luck scuz.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:28
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Yeeeeeeeeeeah, I'm not gonna ask him for any of the special recipe whatever-the-fucks. I like the idea of an Italian tune-up so I'm gonna run the high-octane stuff and make sure to drive it like a maniac over extended periods of time. Love my pops, but he's a bit more of a mad tinkerer than scientist.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:42
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kastein posted:So I went looking on the internet for info on W8 O2 sensor changing and found this gem of a thread. I can't look away. The OP is an insufferable oval office AND a retard, and has no idea what he is doing. Some of the other posters are no better, some are smart though. "I should have gotten a mustang saleen." Yup. I'd rev the poo poo out of it to cook everything off, once you've got 94 octane in there, and everything is up to temp. Can't hurt (famous last words). sharkytm fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 19:58
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This Italian Tune-Up, how long until I should give up on burning all the junk out? I drove it ~65mph for a half hour or so last night on its way home, but it'd been sitting for at least a few weeks beforehand.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:40
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Road speed isn't what matters, engine RPM is. You need to be doing 65mph in like... third. For maybe 20 minutes. Or longer. Personally I've never had that fix an O2 sensor for more than a couple months but hey that's plenty for your purposes
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Jan 25, 2016 23:05
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literally a fish posted:Road speed isn't what matters, engine RPM is. You need to be doing 65mph in like... third. For maybe 20 minutes. Or longer.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:07
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Get that thing nice and hot. Run it hard for awhile then do a long decel down a hill or something if you can. This can actually raise the catalyst temps higher than while driving since the added oxygen that the engine is pumping to the cats without fuel will add more heat to the reaction. I can't give the concrete chemistry (definitely not my strong suit) on it, but it works.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:25
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The last time the Germans tried an Italian tune up, it went bad for all involved. But good luck!
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Jan 26, 2016 05:16
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SITREP:
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Jan 26, 2016 16:09
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The Minnesota car scene definitely has a huge hard on for VAG, roughly equivalent to everyone's love for Subaru. And among wealthier types Volvo is big. Basically if you make an AWD wagon or sedan your brand will sell well in MN. I personally know a number of VW enthusiasts who generally make good purchasing decisions but who nonetheless might be tempted by something that silly.
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Jan 26, 2016 16:47
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You've gotta be making GBS threads me. The W8 drive train just popped up on craigslist, with engine accessories. $400?! You loving betcha. Time to call
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Jan 26, 2016 20:14
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Buying a second drivetrain to make changing the O2 sensors easier. VWownership.txt
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Jan 26, 2016 20:20
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