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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's super weird that acknowledging and seeking to correct the predatory system of labor exploitation inherent in American capitalism is an essential part of the socialist platform but we're not even going to talk about the predatory system of racial exploitation that is inherent in American capitalism, that would just be a little too much and too alienating to be electable. And start talking about reparations and look how many socialists pop out all of a sudden! "Well you see the problem is we should overthrow capitalism." It's a hail mary pass to try and keep from having to talk about race.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:00
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blowfish posted:Reparations are good as long as there is a person who was wronged and who you can pay them to. Reparations where you arbitrarily dump money on the first superficially similar group of people in sight are bad. HTH. Hmm, desperately poor descendants of chattel slaves. But I don't want to react prematurely to this superficial resemblance....
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Jan 23, 2016 09:34
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Sagebrush posted:The UN Human Development Index is a composite score that ranks countries on their population's life expectancy, level of education, and income. How about we spend the next twelve months and thirty? million dollars determining a score for every county in the United States, then distribute welfare funding accordingly? How about we buy apartments for all the homeless people? I mean I guess we could do more studies but the studies are in.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:45
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SlipUp posted:Do recent black immigrants count? Sure. You know what, sure. They have to try and catch a cab just like all the other black people in America.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:12
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blowfish posted:no you see if you have a hard-on for group justice (a thing that civilised societies outlawed) you can just ignore this problem Shucks, did they outlaw that before or after enslaving entire groups?
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Jan 23, 2016 19:37
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TheImmigrant posted:Is it wrong to practice slavery based on group membership? Uh yes, yes it is. quote:Is it wrong to apportion guilt based on group membership? It depends, doesn't it?
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Jan 23, 2016 20:00
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TheImmigrant posted:Explain your reasoning - distinguish the two. I realize this might require a post longer than a dozen words and require the use of logical explanation, neither of which you have demonstrated much capacity for in your 'oeuvre' here on D&D, but give it a shot. I remain an optimist, and am willing to consider the possibility that you can do it. You really can't think of any groupings of people who can be apportioned guilt? How about people who vote a certain way? People who inherited ill-gotten land?
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Jan 23, 2016 20:21
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:So everyone. More or less, which is why reparations should be paid for with taxation.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:24
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Do you see how tidy this is? As your wealth increases, so does your complicity in the historical crimes of the United States. There's no way to escape it, no way to be both rich and clean. All who have benefited from the system must incur some of the cost of reparations.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:30
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Tigey posted:What about someone who moved to the US a week ago? What about them? If they make little money, they should pay little or no tax. If they make a lot, they should pay a high percentage of tax. And reparations should be paid for with taxation.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:40
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TheImmigrant posted:Someone like Herman Cain should pay taxes to pay himself reparations? Correct.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:47
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TheImmigrant posted:How about a super wealthy African immigrant to the US, like Elon Musk? Have I not covered this? Complicity in the historical crimes of the United States comes quickly. If you are rich and using the American system, you should pay heavy taxes, which should be used in part to pay reparations.
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Jan 23, 2016 20:54
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OwlFancier posted:Being as I'm not insane I don't believe in the idea of sins of the father. People born today have nothing to do with the historical crimes of anyone on account of them not being there. The moral angle is coming entirely from those opposed to reparations. This is a simple matter of a population getting poo poo on for centuries, and needing money to fix it. Guess who has the money? And they never would have been able to get it without the many historical crimes of America taking place.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:05
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blowfish posted:There should be no reparations for 1850s slavery in 2016. At all. How declarative, but what's it based on other than your wish to avoid feelings of guilt?
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Jan 23, 2016 21:07
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blowfish posted:Hmm maybe we could just help all people that are shat on and if past injustices have carry-on effects today then that will happen to disproportionately help descendants of people against whom past injustices were carried out? Absolutely. And also reparations for slavery, Jim Crow and modern discrimination.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:08
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blowfish posted:OK show me a slaver who is still alive. I would totally be up for seizing his assets and locking him up. They handed off.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:12
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TheImmigrant posted:So the issue really isn't one of personal guilt so much as where there is money to take. You can't get the money without complicity, it's simple here. And you only "know" what your masters teach you.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:25
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I've never supported singling out the descendants of slave owners.The Insect Court posted:How about strong, common sense gun safety laws to deal with the leading cause of death for young black men? TIC coming out of left field!
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Jan 23, 2016 21:26
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As inadvisable as some of his movies were, I'd hesitate to call them crimes
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Jan 23, 2016 21:28
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TheImmigrant posted:The Unjust World Fallacy. You cannot get money without complicity here.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:42
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TheImmigrant posted:Yes you can. I invite your rebuttal, but that would entail complicity in rhetoric. Nah, you explain. How can you get clean money? Don't use the roads. Don't use the canals. Don't use the farmland. Don't eat the food.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:59
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blowfish posted:I (heart) reverse racism  You win the prize! You said it. TheImmigrant posted:Be born to poor Black sharecroppers in Mississippi, study hard in school, borrow Complicity
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Jan 23, 2016 22:10
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If all the white Americans would choose Trump over reparations, then Trump's what we should have.
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Jan 25, 2016 01:18
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Just a reminder to everybody, if you're against reparations you're exactly the same as these two racists
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Jan 25, 2016 01:36
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Pauline Kael posted:Why do you say that? Caremad because I pointed out that Sanders proposing reparations ends up with President Trump? The voting public doesn't really resemble D&D, not sure if a confused fellow such as yourself is aware of that. Not at all, I think you might be right. Dogs can smell each other out. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 25, 2016 02:07
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Pauline Kael posted:Or, maybe I'm not an echo chamber idiot and this issue is a lot less complex than you think Hey, I'm not saying it's complex. It's as simple as it gets, most white people in America are racist. You understand this, as deeply as it's possible to understand a thing.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:28
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blowfish posted:
Your fear of Trump is pretend. What you actually fear is blacks getting the upper hand, even though that's not going to happen. Trump is just the bogeyman of the moment to get us to stop talking about it.
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Jan 25, 2016 08:38
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, and this is what I mean when I say people are spewing moralising bullshit.
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TheImmigrant posted:Then what are reparations meant to repair, and how to repair it? They are meant to atone for your crimes. Your guilt. The blood on your hands. There, I said it. Why shouldn't I give you what you want? You'll invent it as a straw man if nobody says it.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:43
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TheImmigrant posted:I wasn't in the US for slavery, nor were any of my ancestors. Arguing against reparations actually makes you guiltier than the descendants of slave owners, drinking a mint julep sitting on the front porch of a former plantation. You should be taxed more heavily than them.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:53
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rudatron posted:Ah, responsibility, now there's an interesting word. Usually, responsibility is associated with a choice Not true, so you can stop there. If you benefit from inequality you are responsible for fixing it.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:18
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TheImmigrant posted:Do you live in the US? Yes, I bear responsibility for the current state of affairs, have benefited from privilege and from not looking black, and I am happy to pay taxes towards reparations.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:40
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boom boom boom posted:Then why on earth would you start with race? being born poor is way worse for you than being born black. In what way? How do you know?
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Jan 25, 2016 19:46
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A lottery for black people, how incredibly tasteful.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:59
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GlyphGryph posted:Do you think that, absent institutional racism, that wealth would have otherwise been spread equally? Life is a lottery, sort of a huge point in favour of reparations is that institutional racism and historical legacies mean that black people receive less opportunities than their white counterparts - why is an attempt to create a meaningful collection of financial and lifestyle opportunities focused solely on black people distasteful? Because it's like "hey black people already know how to line up for lotto tickets! Let's use that knowledge to atone for slavery."
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Jan 25, 2016 20:27
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blowfish posted:And it is still totally wrong because he is still sacrificing (perhaps suboptimal, but the best achievable) progress on the altar of intellectual purity. Can there ever be a time where it is appropriate for black people to express their true feelings on race to a viable Presidential candidate? After all, any harsh word about their policies could damage them.
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Jan 28, 2016 09:47
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blowfish posted:Clinton is viable too. Jeb! or Cruz or whoever is halfway viable too. It's more productive to shout at the rear end in a top hat actively trying to take away your stuff/freedoms than shouting at the guy who doesn't care quite enough about you to make your problems the top of his agenda. And frankly, in politics, I couldn't give a poo poo about " Do you want to answer my question though?
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Jan 28, 2016 16:21
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but this hurts my feelings, which i want to express
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It amuses me that people are still wondering if Latinos and Asians will "become white." The truth is, in 20 years "whiteness" won't be seen as valuable or good.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:02
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Woolie Wool posted:By whom? Unless you can stage a revolution and defeat the government and the counterrevolution, white people will see it as valuable and good and use their power to enforce it. You will never defeat white supremacy by sitting on your rear end and waiting it out, that's idiotic. White people are going to matter less and less, get it?
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Feb 1, 2016 19:14
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TheImmigrant posted:Hadley, please stop hounding the rent boys. I've forgotten more about world cultures than you've learned in an entire lifetime mopping spastic monkey spunk in your Midwestern 'laboratory' at Directional State Community College. But what does that have to do with "being white"?
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Feb 1, 2016 19:44
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Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:I'm confused now. Is white supposed to be a race, a skin color, or an ideology? That's An Excellent Question
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Feb 1, 2016 19:49
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