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John Murdoch posted:"If you just ignore the dumb stuff, then there's no dumb stuff! Except I'm saying there is a full game beyond the dumb stuff. quote:I'm personally just apathetic towards Blow. I'm apparently the one person who thought Braid was overrated and not that great, but w/r/t The Witness I'm only disinterested due to the price. I'm glad it's getting good reviews and I'll eagerly wait for the inevitable sale. I'm just appreciative of logic puzzle games in general from sokoban and soduko up to braid. Making a set of mechanics and then making tricky puzzles based on those established mechanics is a good thing imo. I prefer those to riddles like La Maluna and Myst, and apparently how the Witness will be, but not enough people are making explore and solve games like that (that do not solve themselves, like, say, Monument Valley basically does) and so I MIGHT get this. how me a frog posted:Yeah this poo poo right here. He's not a dude who makes games, he's a passionate creative. he made a game and it is called Braid. Is "braid is a video game" going to be the controversial statement here. It's not like we have a gone home situation here, Braid was far from a walking simulator.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:23
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goferchan posted:One reviewer confirmed that there are "collectibles" that he didn't even realize existed until he had beaten the game and he's only managed to find a quarter of them The GiantBomb quicklook mentioned that there are findable audio log files or something. I'm guessing that's the collectible?
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Jan 26, 2016 02:29
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Bobulus posted:The GiantBomb quicklook mentioned that there are findable audio log files or something. I'm guessing that's the collectible? the person you're replying to said that someone didn't find any of these collectibles until finishing the game so probably not
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Jan 26, 2016 02:35
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Acne Rain posted:Except I'm saying there is a full game beyond the dumb stuff. I don't disagree, but that dumb stuff is exactly what people call Blow pretentious for. I don't think it's fair to sweep it under the rug by saying you can just ignore it.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:38
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to me, the most pretentious thing blow did was when he was responding to people shortly after braid's release. they were guessing at the 'true meaning' of the game, and he replied: 'no, that's not it'. 'no, that's not it'. 'no, that's not it...' google death of the author roland barthes, bitches!!!
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Jan 26, 2016 02:42
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John Murdoch posted:I don't disagree, but that dumb stuff is exactly what people call Blow pretentious for. I don't think it's fair to sweep it under the rug by saying you can just ignore it. The problem is that there isn't that much dumb stuff. The most controversial thing Blow has ever said is stuff that leads toward, 'Games could be more artsy.' and 'Games could be a throughline to more complex emotions.' If that's the dirt you need on someone to call them pretentious, then I guess he's pretentious, but Christ, the dude just likes making a certain kind of videos games and really believes in it. What an rear end in a top hat for being good at what he does, and at the same time, talks the talk re: his ideals.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:45
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he said mmos and farmville and other psychological trap games are bad for people and were created by jerks that don't care about their customers well being and he's right.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:47
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how me a frog posted:Okay so maybe Blow is the -second- most pretentious little pratt I've ever had the misfortune of happening upon. Get over yourself
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Jan 26, 2016 02:47
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blow is good. i'm gonna do blow
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Jan 26, 2016 02:47
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John Murdoch posted:"If you just ignore the dumb stuff, then there's no dumb stuff! These are basically my thoughts on the matter. Also  for being in the Braid Is Overrated camp. I don't hate Blow or anything - it'd be dumb to hate someone for making a good game full of good puzzles - but I've been kind of sick of hearing Blow praised for the writing in Braid. It's REALLY awkward and silly, and the Witness sounds like it might be even worse - there's apparently no real plot or reason for you to solve puzzles, just the puzzles themselves. I can see myself losing interest pretty quick.It might turn out that I'm talking out of my rear end on all of this! I'll definitely give it a look when it goes on sale.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:48
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as an alternative, does anyone know where you can get the HD riven online? I got it on steam but the whole thing is total crap due to the low res stuff meant to fit on a 700mb CD instead of a glorious 8 CD box set as god intended.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:49
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:The problem is that there isn't that much dumb stuff. The most controversial thing Blow has ever said is stuff that leads toward, 'Games could be more artsy.' and 'Games could be a throughline to more complex emotions.' If that's the dirt you need on someone to call them pretentious, then I guess he's pretentious, but Christ, the dude just likes making a certain kind of videos games and really believes in it. What an rear end in a top hat for being good at what he does, and at the same time, talks the talk re: his ideals. honestly I think the difference between this thread and the last one I saw is a poo poo ton of kickstarter drama dragging down a few once incredibly respected game development heroes. suddenly making "taking yourself too seriously" is not as much of a big deal if you can actually make your drat video game, especially one that's exactly what you said it was.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:53
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Acne Rain posted:honestly I think the difference between this thread and the last one I saw is a poo poo ton of kickstarter drama dragging down a few once incredibly respected game development heroes. suddenly making "taking yourself too seriously" is not as much of a big deal if you can actually make your drat video game, especially one that's exactly what you said it was. I'm not really sure what you're saying but when has Jonathan Blow actually "taken himself too seriously"? Because that and caring a lot about your medium of choice are too very different things.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:07
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guy likes making games says as much bunch of nerds think all games should be poo poo get mad on the internet thread complains about it here we are
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Jan 26, 2016 03:10
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Bobulus posted:The GiantBomb quicklook mentioned that there are findable audio log files or something. I'm guessing that's the collectible? Nah I'm guessing it's not that since every review mentioned those and it sounds like they're scattered around in plain sight. Probably something much more devious
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Jan 26, 2016 03:12
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I get the impression that a lot of people on the Internet (and possibly in real life) hold onto this subconscious idea that there is this thing known as The Perfect Game, a game that is objectively the peak of everything a game can possibly achieve, a game that is better than literally every other game no matter what aspect of it you are measuring, be it challenge, innovation, aesthetics, etc. People who hold onto this subconscious belief also subconsciously see every game as being its own attempt at achieving this standard of perfection. And so, in a sense, all game creators are working together to make progress on this road to perfection, experimenting with new mechanics, tweaking things here and there, learning from each other's mistakes and failures. So when a game ends up focusing on the "wrong things", actively aiming to improve on things that are irrelevant to achieving perfection, it's not just that it's failed at being the perfect game--it's actively making other games worse, because it encourages other game makers to focus on those wrong things, as well. It's distracting them from working towards perfection, destroying any potential they might have otherwise fulfilled with their own games. These types of games dilute the quality available in the pool of games as a whole. I don't think there's much of that exact sentiment going on in this thread (yet). But it ties into another concept that's become more and more prominent over time. It's not just that the game itself has to be good--the game creators have to be good, too, and craft their games with the correct intentions in mind. Otherwise they run the risk of going off the rails and pulling everyone else with them, gamers and game creators alike. I think this sentiment becomes most obvious when you look at the divide between people who see games as a form of creative expression that offers more freedom than any other medium (given that they combine nearly all other known art forms into a single form--imagery, sound, and story), and people who see games primarily as... well, games, with rules to follow and goals to achieve. Games can do either one, or even do both at the same time, but people who lean more towards one side also tend to feel very strongly that the opposing side is actively threatening to their preferred side. I'm interested in solving puzzles, sure, but I'm one of the types of people who is less interested in that aspect of it and more interested just in seeing the end result of a known creative person pouring all of his passion into a single project over the course of six years. I'm the type of person who tends to say, "Okay, so his personality's a little weird. No problem, you don't usually get quality creative work from someone who's normal." I'm not one of the people who misses playing games in the '90s, when games weren't made by human beings with flaws, they were made by Nintendo, and you didn't play Mario to think about things, you played it because you were TIRED of thinking about things and you just wanted to escape from the complexities of life for a while. I do empathize with people who miss those things, though, so to a certain extent I empathize with the people who complain about Jonathan Blow, even if I don't agree with them. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect game. I think games can't be the best at doing a particular thing unless they purposely sacrifice being able to accomplish something else. Sometimes this means a game ends up needing to alienate a lot of people to do what it does. Sometimes it means the game's creators end up alienating a lot of people. So I tend to be more forgiving of creators when that kind of thing happens, and in many cases, I actually end up respecting them more for it, even if their game isn't my kind of thing. I don't hold it against the people who are put off by it, though. At least, not unless they're trying to take my pretentious art games away from me. I need those things, goddammit. Wanton Spoon fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 03:26
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No PS4 preload?So It Goes posted:I made a pass updating the OP. When the game comes out tomorrow, I will probably media black out for a while so if anyone thinks something should be in it, please say so now. VR is confirmed, only on PC though
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Jan 26, 2016 03:27
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The thing with Blow's games seems to be that the writing isn't there to convey a narrative but to express mood and general themes. Braid gave you tiny little seemingly unrelated snippets vaguely relating to the level's puzzle gimmick while giving little window into the main character, then at the end of the game some blatantly unrelated stuff to hammer home the theme . Like the impressionist artstyle the text is there to give you general idea of the shape of things without going into the details. Sorry if this obvious, surface level analysis makes me pretentious. I can see that if you go into it expecting a coherent and well told story you're going to be disappointed, but it was imo pretty well done and not something you often see in videogames writing.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:28
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At this point, I kinda adore Blow for being one of the best unintentional trolls at all time. It really is just comical how riled up nerds get about him doing and saying the most randomly innocuous things, usually involving the word "pretentious". Which sure, whatever, but why do nerds get so outraged at a person acting "pretentious" anyways? It really offends some people at such a core level it's hard to find it anything but hilarious. Like, apparently Blow's existence as a "pretentious person" somehow affects them or will limit the development of non-pretentious games or something. There is so clearly room for someone like Blow to exist and make (really good) games, the whole "nerd outrage" shtick is such an amusement. I remember when the Fez thread was mostly people's opinions on Phil Fish's opinions on Japanese games. Good times. Luckily, this game will release within 24 hours and will be ready to be talked about. AdmiralViscen posted:VR is confirmed, only on PC though Hadn't heard this yet. This game looks so perfect for VR, I wonder how long it will take to get it developed. Sucks for the PSVR I guess, PC master race or something.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:38
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So It Goes posted:
my fav bit was some goon claiming he knew friends of Fish irl and they all claim Fish pretends to be an insufferable hipster etc etc, also the uncle who works at nintendo. I hope someone claims they know Blow's friend of a friend or whatever and tell us which craft beer Blow refuses to drink
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Jan 26, 2016 03:49
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This might be the game that forces me to upgrade my six year-old PC. It's a very beautiful game but it doesn't look technically demanding. How much of the map is being rendered at a time?
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Jan 26, 2016 03:54
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If you look up a solution to a puzzle in star videogame and life-experience The Witness by Jonathan Blow, you are a PUSSY and are having a demonstrably less rich experience than I am and I will not hesitate to rub this fact in your dumb piss baby face.
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Jan 26, 2016 04:18
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cram me sideways posted:If you look up a solution to a puzzle in star videogame and life-experience The Witness by Jonathan Blow, you are a PUSSY and are having a demonstrably less rich experience than I am and I will not hesitate to rub this fact in your dumb piss baby face. He wrote all the solutions to the puzzles on the side of a piss jar
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Jan 26, 2016 04:53
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Real hurthling! posted:he said mmos and farmville and other psychological trap games are bad for people and were created by jerks that don't care about their customers well being and he's right. I was actually ambivalent towards Jonathan Blow until I read this post and if he actually said that then he owns, MMOs are the pits.
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Jan 26, 2016 04:56
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DoubleCakes posted:This might be the game that forces me to upgrade my six year-old PC. It's a very beautiful game but it doesn't look technically demanding. How much of the map is being rendered at a time? The minimum specs list integrated graphics, and it's running at 1080p 60fps on PS4, so I doubt it's particularly demanding. You'll probably be fine.
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Jan 26, 2016 05:01
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Anyone know when it's unlocking on Steam?
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Jan 26, 2016 05:05
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mods rename this thread to JoBlow's PissJar Adventure, tia
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Jan 26, 2016 05:06
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Tir McDohl posted:Anyone know when it's unlocking on Steam? Something like 1PM Eastern
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Jan 26, 2016 05:15
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Fayez Butts posted:Something like 1PM Eastern That's hosed Up
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Jan 26, 2016 05:21
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Tir McDohl posted:That's hosed Up   I want it now
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Jan 26, 2016 05:31
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I suspect that this article is the root of much of Blow's reputation for pretension. Though that's probably unfair as I'd put most of the blame on the writer there, as it may be one of the most astonishingly bad video game articles ever written, which is quite some feat. And at any rate, he's better than Chris Hecker (who's also featured in that article) who's been putting himself about as some kind of game design expert for almost a decade when all he's worked on is Spore in some capacity (and that game was of course, terrible) and his own game SpyParty, a game he has been working on for years longer than the Witness has been in development (it was one of the games, along with Fez, that the press really raved about back when Braid kicked off the indie game boom), and still has no sign of being released soon, and has had every interesting idea it had about asymmetric multiplayer stolen by other games by now.
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Jan 26, 2016 08:17
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Reminder: this loving cuckoo bird posted a pissjar and catheter bragging about how dedicated he was to making a game where you smell 667 of his farts and NONE of you are taking him to the cleaners. I like me some games but you guys will do ANYTHING for a hit, woncha
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Jan 26, 2016 08:18
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PleasingFungus posted:google death of the author roland barthes, bitches!!! Car accident.
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Jan 26, 2016 08:25
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I thought the bit at the end of braid where you rewind the final escape sequence was actually clever. 
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Jan 26, 2016 08:32
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guys guys ethics in videogame journalism
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Jan 26, 2016 08:47
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https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/the-witness/cid=UP2124-CUSA00498_00-THEWITNESSPS4PS4 looks like it's live on PSN
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Jan 26, 2016 09:03
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Real hurthling! posted:he said mmos and farmville and other psychological trap games are bad for people and were created by jerks that don't care about their customers well being and he's right. Look forward to playign this game. At least until Legion comes out.
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Jan 26, 2016 10:07
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Looking forward to buying this game on sale, like I do with all videogames. And also reading through Walkthroughs which shall be completed by the time the game goes on sale. But the third game from 999/VLR is also apparently coming out this year. So they shall have to fight for supremacy of puzzle exploration games.
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Jan 26, 2016 10:22
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Mutant Standard posted:mods rename this thread to JoBlow's PissJar Adventure, tia nice 
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Jan 26, 2016 12:15
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The things that made Myst and - especially Riven - good were a overarching story and not some pretentious bullshit message. A large diversity of puzzles, lore and places you could visit.
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