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Is atheism a choice or can you not help being atheist? Is it like homosexuality?
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Jan 22, 2016 06:02
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:59 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXmpJRZPYI War is easy to talk about; there are not many people left of the generation which remembers it. The right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup served with distinction in the last war. I never killed anyone but I wore uniform. I was in London during the blitz in 1940, living where the Millbank tower now stands, where I was born. Some different ideas have come in there since. Every night, I went to the shelter in Thames house. Every morning, I saw docklands burning. Five hundred people were killed in Westminster one night by a land mine. It was terrifying. Are not Arabs and Iraqis terrified? Do not Arab and Iraqi women weep when their children die? Does not bombing strengthen their determination? What fools we are to live as if war is a computer game for our children or just an interesting little Channel 4 news item. Every Member of Parliament who votes for the Government motion will be consciously and deliberately accepting responsibility for the deaths of innocent people if the war begins, as I fear it will. That decision isfor every hon. Member to take. In my parliamentary experience, this a unique debate. We are being asked to share responsibility for a decision that we will not really be taking but which will have consequences for people who have no part to play in the brutality of the regime with which we are dealing.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:04
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my dads disowned me when i came out as buddist
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Jan 22, 2016 06:05
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like for example if atheism is a belief reached after reason and deliberation, do you still choose the conclusion or is it one you're forced to accept (regardless of the validity of your deliberations)
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Jan 22, 2016 06:05
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les fleurs du mall posted:like for example if atheism is a belief reached after reason and deliberation, do you still choose the conclusion or is it one you're forced to accept (regardless of the validity of your deliberations) imo it's not really a choice except that people have varying levels of spirituality as part of their personality and you either absorb the local religion you grow up with, pick a different one you like better, or if you have a low spirit level you'll just not bother with any of it kind of like built in sexuality, except that our bodies are completely built to gently caress and gently caress often, but religious belief and a sense of the divine is a weird offshoot of being sentient like music appreciation or jokes so it's not as strong or deeply wired
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Jan 22, 2016 06:11
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I choose me. -Brenda
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Jan 22, 2016 06:18
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The best part of being a non religious kid is going with your friends on their church youth group trips, because they schedule outings to local amusement parks and you enjoy fun wholesome family entertainment and thrilling rides on questionably maintained equipment but you feel safe because god protects all of his children, even the carnie behind the shaveice stand belting up with the missing half of your seat belt. And in the evening you go to an auditorium where words are spoken and elations are felt and they serve you pizza and you pay nothing for this or for any of the days activities, because the good lord provides and this is why he is good. And as you bow your head to thank him for being good, you take a moment to quietly reflect on the reaffirming sense of fellowship and peace in this spiritual assembly. Then you choose pepperoni or sausage and watch swole guys rippin phone books for Jesus
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Jan 22, 2016 06:53
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Popular Thug Drink posted:imo it's not really a choice except that people have varying levels of spirituality as part of their personality and you either absorb the local religion you grow up with, pick a different one you like better, or if you have a low spirit level you'll just not bother with any of it Well, there's also the fact that there's ultimately a "right" and "wrong" when it comes to the topic of religion/spirituality*; either these spiritual/divine things exist or they don't. Whereas obviously there is no universal right or wrong when it comes to what gender someone is attracted to. * I mean, in practice since you can't prove what is right/wrong when it comes to religious/spiritual matters none of this has any real application to how people should behave
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Jan 22, 2016 07:35
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I was always an atheist. For some people (like me) I don't think its a choice.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:01
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I didn't choose to be intelligent and rational. I simply am, and that's why I'm an atheist.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:39
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There are no choices. Free will is an illusion.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:59
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I don't think so. You can't really choose whether something convinces you or not.
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Jan 22, 2016 10:34
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I mean, I guess it's a choice in the sense that we choose to believe or not believe anything else. If I believe a thing is true, I'm choosing to believe that based upon the information available. But it's often not a choice in the sense of someone having to put a bunch of effort into "ignoring" God or something (which is what many Christians seem to think). I was raised in a family where no one was religious, so I've never really taken the idea of a God (or anything spiritual/supernatural) seriously.
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Jan 22, 2016 10:41
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I don't see how it's different from any other set of beliefs. Children are socialized to hold certain core beliefs by their family and other social institutions, but have the agency to re-examine those beliefs later, especially when exposed to lots of other competing world views. If you're raised in a household that believes very strongly that there is no God, you will be more likely to be an atheist, but it's by no means a settled question. If you're raised in a relatively secular but noncommittal environment, you can go basically any way. The only thing that is truly unlikely to happen is conversion to a religion associated with a different culture, such as a white French person becoming a Hindu. I suppose there is another element with religious faith- the idea that you can intuitively know and believe in God based on your relationship with Him rather than just deciding based on empirical evidence. I can't really speak about this, other than to say that perhaps its just something that some people feel more strongly than others by nature*, and sociological factors/their analysis of the evidence leads them to associate it with a certain religion. I don't have any statistics to back this up, but it seems to be more likely for people raised in a very conservative fundamentalist culture (with or without their family subscribing to it) to go the other way and become a raving Reddit-style atheist in comparison to people who were raised secular or moderately religious. If your family is moderately religious, it tends not to come into direct conflict with other drives as much as a restrictive fundamentalist upbringing. Those with very strong emotions about some facet of religion are probably not as able to prevent that from influencing their attitude to it. *Either because they have a connection to the divine or more of the genes that made humanity amenable to religious belief in the first place, whichever interpretation you like better.
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Jan 22, 2016 12:35
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Atheism isn't a choice, per se, rather it's the result of what happens when someone intentionally exercises their free will to enforce control over how they perceive their environment. Atheism's a handy defense mechanism for all those people out there who like to stay in their own skulls and want to keep their experiences filtered into "real world" goals with quantifiable rewards as the evidence of their success. In other words, Atheism casts existential doubts aside to put food on the table. Change is an inevitable force in nature, however, so an atheist cannot be one forever (which is kind of the point anyway).
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Jan 22, 2016 12:46
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Religious people try to justify and understand things that we don't have explanations for yet through the convenience of a god or some other entity. Atheists take in scientific information and incorporate it into their understanding of the universe. I think that the primary difference between atheists and religious people is that atheists have an appreciation for rationale and inquiry. So to answer the question, no. For at least me personally, it isn't a choice.
DirtyHeathen fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 13:12
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i was born an atheist im pretty sure everyone else was too
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Jan 22, 2016 13:55
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Is a better sex life a choice?
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Jan 22, 2016 14:05
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A misanthrope posted:i was born an atheist I'm not normally "that guy" but as an atheist I am pretty certain that babies get born agnostic. And there is nothing wrong with that.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:17
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reignofevil posted:I'm not normally "that guy" but as an atheist I am pretty certain that babies get born agnostic. Babies are atheist. Agnosticism is about whether you can know if there is a god, and babies can't have a position on that. Atheism is simply lack of belief. To the OPs question, I don't think you can really choose to believe (or not believe) something. You are either convinced or not, it isn't volitional.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:20
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Like many real world athiests, babies are apatheistic, they just don't know the word for it.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:29
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OzyMandrill posted:Like many real world athiests, babies are apatheistic, they just don't know the word for it. Apatheism is cool and good. Stop wasting time, enjoy real life.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:31
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:Apatheism is cool and good. Stop wasting time, enjoy real life. Agreed but since religiousity is derived from the same pattern recognition as science, just built entirely on false positives, they can't help it. And/or: Samuel Clemens posted:There are no choices. Free will is an illusion.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:44
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I don't think that it could be a voluntary choice. Theres a thing called "Perception dissonance" and related phenomenon where people ignore information that contradict their beliefs. People don't want their {culture religious beliefs} to be a lie. Don't want it strong enough for his brain to hide the facts about how all {culture religious beliefs} are man made cultural stuff. The thing with perception dissonance is that you can't use it voluntary. It seems to work on a lower level of conscience. Perhaps if you take the decision to find every thing where you yourself are wrong, accept them, and try to fix them, maybe them you can start has a religious person, and end as atheist person. But even them it will not be quick. Speed matter here because conscious decisions can be instantaneous, but unconscious decisions may take a lot of time. This make me think that maybe atheism is not a conscious decision, but it can being a decision you made (stop lying yourself) on a unconscious level. Note: To avoid criticism I will add this: every person suffer from perception dissonance. Atheist are not immune about it. But by being atheist they are lying to themselves to other things and not this one. Tei fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 14:50
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DirtyHeathen posted:Religious people try to justify and understand things that we don't have explanations for yet through the convenience of a god or some other entity. Atheists take in scientific information and incorporate it into their understanding of the universe.
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Jan 22, 2016 14:56
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blowfish posted:Apatheism is cool and good. Stop wasting time, enjoy real life. Faith heads keep interjecting themselves and preventing me from doing so, though. Nowadays often violently. 
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Jan 22, 2016 15:02
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What if i wanted to give birth to a non-atheism baby? Is there a way to make sure she/he knows that God is real from the get go?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:09
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Does God have a God?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:10
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social vegan posted:What if i wanted to give birth to a non-atheism baby? Is there a way to make sure she/he knows that God is real from the get go? Alcohol?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:10
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whoflungpoop posted:Haha no atheists dont really do those things much better than anyone else, they just like to pat themselves on the back for eliminating 20 blatantly wrong answers on a billion choice test 20 fewer is 20 fewer
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Jan 22, 2016 15:10
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TEAYCHES posted:Does God have a God? What would a God need with a God?
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Jan 22, 2016 15:12
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Every human is either a member of God's elect or not. Sorry atheists, but you don't have a choice if God has already planned your destruction.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:28
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for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: if it isn't a choice, then how can it be reasonable / fair / just / acceptable to judge, criticize or belittle others for not being atheists? (since they don't choose to not be) That would be like judging / criticizing / belittling gay people, since they don't choose to be gay.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:34
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i feel like maybe i could pretend for long enough that i would forget i was pretending. Fake it till i make it.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:34
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les fleurs du mall posted:for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: Same.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:36
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It's way more of a choice than your sexuality and way less of a choice than say whether you put a roll of toilet paper so it spools out in front or the back. Happy to be proven wrong BUT I'm pretty sure that trying to put it in a pure choice/non-choice category and then proceeding from there won't be super illuminating.
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Jan 22, 2016 15:55
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les fleurs du mall posted:for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: Beliefs are not the same thing is preferences. The former is more cognitive abstraction of reality the latter is more a reflection of one's reaction to stimulus. Not all beliefs come as a result of rational, self-aware reasoning. In fact plenty are just absorbed naturally from social cues/pressure/assimilation before since children and even most adult individuals just don't have the luxury of going one by one through them in the course of life to make a more reasoned conclusion on the matter. If one grows up in a home and community where everyone just assumes something is the case, like in plenty of religious households, these things are often taken as is. So putting this all together we can see a case where someone might come out of a home believing that gay people are BAD PEOPLE because REASONS when that simply isn't true, yet also not really have made the conscious choice to make that belief on their own simply because that is just what everyone around them said, believed and reinforced.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:38
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Epistemologically, atheism requires as much a leap of faith as deism or theism do. From evidential and logical standpoints, agnosticism is the only defensible position.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:50
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les fleurs du mall posted:for those of you saying atheism isn't a choice: it isn't acceptable, atheists sneering at religious people is just a way of addressing old wounds or achieving some sense of personal superiority which is often unwarranted
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Jan 22, 2016 17:10
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:59 |
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Beliefs are not chosen; they are not subject to the will. If they were it would mean the end of all suffering - why labour under the agony of bone cancer when one can opt to believe they are instead sipping cocktails on the beach?quote:if it isn't a choice, then how can it be reasonable / fair / just / acceptable to judge, criticize or belittle others for not being atheists? (since they don't choose to not be) True....although I'd argue that while one shouldn't be condemned for holding a particular belief per se we are to an extent responsible for the actions and attitudes we project into the world as a result of that belief. Thus any religion that teaches salvation (or the avoidance of hell) is only available to those who believe a certain way is no better ethical shape than one that teaches only white skinned folk are to be saved.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:34
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