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Silver2195 posted:I admit I don't talk much about anime and manga with people in real life, but I got the impression that the anti-anime/manga backlash was almost exclusive to Something Awful. it's pretty common at least on the internet at large / among 'nerds' at large IMO a big part of it is because anime targets women and children much more than the american nerddom, which tends to enrage a certain subset of the standard 40 year old adult male audience of sci-fi/fantasy/DC comics stuff. Another part of it is different corporate structure means that there's no financial incentive for american nerd media to care about japanese stuff, so it tends to be unfamiliar to most people. Another part of it is simple casual racism/orientalism. and then of course there are real/legitimate/justified complaints about sexism or gross stuff. IMO those aren't nearly enough to explain the total level of hostility towards japanese stuff, but it is significant, and i don't want to dismiss those complaints as for anime fans IRL, actually a very large proportion of people I know, and I'm pretty young, are fans of anime stuff. i think the reflexive hostility is less among younger people icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 17:52
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Also part of it is because of the comparative lack of indie/artsy stuff / a lack of a certain level of polish in anime. It still exists but it's not a movement to nearly the extent of like video games or comic books over the last few years. That's not really that big a problem in my eyes because I know enough / care enough to find the diamonds in the rough but it's part of why more prestigious media doesn't care about or is hostile to animeEndorph posted:quote this post in order to gather all our energy, to dismiss those complaints Endorph posted:not to mention there's kind of the inherent problem of trying to judge japanese media through a western lens of sexism. like what reads as sexist to you isn't going to read as sexist even to the most hardcore feminist in japan, because feminism in japan is different from feminism in the west. likewise, something that reads as cool to you could read as really hosed up to a jp lady. i think a lot of complaints about sexism in japanese media are justified (i'm sorry, my ultimate loyalty is with the revolution, not anime  ) but there's a definite double standard where people don't care at all about stuff like DC comics glorifying literal fascism or gears of war having all the female characters shipped off to rape camps as part of the in-canon story but like naruto gets ripped a new rear end in a top hat for sexism because the female characters aren't active enough and there's the occasional lame, inoffensive boob joke
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 18:24
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DoubleDonut posted:1. What even is "a lack of a certain level of polish" 1. Bad animation / writing / production values / having a show that does one thing well but everything else is minimum effort because the audience only cares about that one thing so why bother 2. TV, especially network TV has a lot of that problem but I think you're seeing more shows with better production values / more polish. Like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Mad Men, etc. I'm not really a TV guy though so I don't know that much about this
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Feb 8, 2016 18:37
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Endorph posted:this absolutely happens in tv, film, and western animation. like absolutely. sure, but there's very much a conscious movement towards higher quality media, stuff like adventure time/steven universe/gravity falls in animation, indie games, and in movies and tv. there's no shortage of good, well-made anime but they're not really consciously emphasized by the industry and i think if they were you would see a lot more attention and support from hipster/indie types, who like it or not pretty much run things outside japan now
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Feb 8, 2016 18:43
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DoubleDonut posted:Like, you don't get to talk about The Sopranos and Mad Men if your standard for anime is unending shonen/light novel bullshit. Compare those shows to stuff like Ping Pong or Monster and you might have an actual discussion, but I don't think you can say Ping Pong has bad animation, writing, or production values i'm not saying that, i'm saying the anime industry seems just as happy to churn out unending shounen/LN bullshit as it does to make things like Ping Pong, whereas american media as of 2016 at least puts on a show of caring about polish and production values
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Feb 8, 2016 18:46
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DoubleDonut posted:Tell me more about how hipsters are the ones who run things now have you ever read the AV Club? quote:What exactly is caring about polish and production values in The Big Bang Theory, the most watched show on television? like i said TV is pretty bad about this as well. in media as a whole though there's a definite trend towards better craft/production values though Endorph posted:american media churns out superhero movies and reboots and the anime industry makes valkyrie drive and LN shows. i'd rather watch the superhero shows than that
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Feb 8, 2016 18:54
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Endorph posted:i don't know why you're equating indie/hipster with quality but i wish you'd stop they don't have to be the same thing in theory but most of the time what i'm talking about in western media today is both Srice posted:The easiest western comparison to LNs is YA lit even YA movies are better than like heavy object or valkyrie drive
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Feb 8, 2016 18:57
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Gyra_Solune posted:the anime industry sounds hosed up, once it's less hosed up by merit of the unfucked studios gaining more success, things will probably improve, but for now it remains dominated by companies who treat their employees like poo poo and, surprise surprise, end up churning out poo poo i mean this is mostly a problem of the japanese domestic market imploding as the country wastes away into the aether. i think the best path forwards for the anime industry is making stuff for a mainstream american audience, which i guess is why i keep harping on the benefits of switching to a more similar model to how american media now works
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Feb 8, 2016 19:01
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Endorph posted:and it seems like that model would lead to way more pandering, not less. the current model allows for surprise successes or something that suddenly takes the world by storm even without any real 'hook' that draws people in. with that model you'd have to be pandering from the word go and desperately trying to sell yourself. as kickstarter shows, the best way to be successful is to either use an established franchise (the shenmue kickstarter), have a known name attached to your project (bloodstained, mighty no. 9), or invoke an established franchise without being a direct sequel (pillars of eternity) i'm thinking less kickstarter and more just making shows for netflix
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Feb 8, 2016 19:02
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DoubleDonut posted:You can't just say that western TV doesn't count. It's the most directly comparable market. Video games and comics don't have to put out an episode a week for 26 weeks anime companies don't have to put out an episode every week either. nobody's holding a gun to their head and demanding they produce garbage and as for japan wasting away: 
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Feb 8, 2016 19:14
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Endorph posted:tbf, ainu and koreans are cool and should be in anime more there's some shoujo thing where everyone has korean names, i can't remember what it is though. and the minority characters in fma are supposed to be ainu
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Feb 9, 2016 10:35
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