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straight up brolic posted:Dont talk about him like that!!! Lance : Brolic :: Austin : Kibner
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Feb 19, 2016 01:10
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I too enjoy Lance
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Feb 19, 2016 01:46
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Jack's Flow posted:The pick is good, true. Lance is just straight up trash. He had one average season in five years. He's bad. He is bad, yes. But they acquired his contract, not him. Salaries have to match, remember, so they effectively traded Green for a first rounder and the right to waive Stephenson. The Grizz completely fleeced the clippers. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 02:03
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You'd figure a fan of a team that took on an extra year of a bad contract just to get a 30th pick would understand the value of hoarding picks.
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Feb 19, 2016 02:07
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Charles Barkley failed to deliver on this promise in the OP
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Feb 19, 2016 02:08
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The amount of Raptor fans who think they were 1-2 trades away from making it past the Cavs is pretty hilarious. Though I guess it would only take 1 trade to get Lebron James on the team.
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Feb 19, 2016 02:23
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Paul Zuvella posted:He is bad, yes. But they acquired his contract, not him. Salaries have to match, remember, so they effectively traded Green for a first rounder and the right to waive Stephenson. The Grizz completely fleeced the clippers.
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Feb 19, 2016 02:49
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Like I actually really like this move from the Clippers. If we're going to be playing literal SCRUBS like M'bah a Moute we cant win anything. Secretly this teams problem isn't offense/shooting, it's REBOUNDING. Now we can roll out bigger wing/pf combos that can actually defend and rebound the ball. Huge for when Redick & Crawdaddy aren't on E: and if you don't believe me watch SA, who are a historically good rebounding team, destroy the Clippers by creating/stopping extra possessions tonight
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Feb 19, 2016 02:52
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sorry for posting like that i drank too much espresso at work
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Feb 19, 2016 02:53
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The discussion about the Grizz getting a pick is irrelevant because they're only going to use it on some guy who'll play 15 NBA games and quietly disappear like they always do with their other late first rounders.
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Feb 19, 2016 03:51
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Can you imagine if the Bulls never got Jordan? They'd be the Clippers before CP3/Blake.
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Feb 19, 2016 03:54
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Apparently the Bucks kept calling to try to get Rubio and Milt just asked if they were ready to give up Middleton every time. I'm not sure what they were expecting after the first couple tries.
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Feb 19, 2016 04:46
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Paul Zuvella posted:He is bad, yes. But they acquired his contract, not him. Salaries have to match, remember, so they effectively traded Green for a first rounder and the right to waive Stephenson. The Grizz completely fleeced the clippers. Yes, Lance will be waived, and the pick might turn into someone who is as good as Jeff Green. If they are lucky. Meanwhile the Clippers get instant help on the wing, where they needed instant help. I still like this trade for the Clippers. Hoarding picks is great, but the draft outside the lottery remains a total crapshoot, as it has always been.
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Feb 19, 2016 10:26
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Larry Bird must be praying graces to his statue every night for Lance not taking the 44 million/4 year offer.
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Feb 19, 2016 10:31
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Jack's Flow posted:Yes, Lance will be waived, and the pick might turn into someone who is as good as Jeff Green. If they are lucky. Meanwhile the Clippers get instant help on the wing, where they needed instant help. I still like this trade for the Clippers. Hoarding picks is great, but the draft outside the lottery remains a total crapshoot, as it has always been. Getting a first round pick for 30 games of Jeff Green is a good thing man. The Grizz are finished this year and Green is far from a good player.
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Feb 19, 2016 10:34
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Tae posted:Larry Bird must be praying graces to his statue every night for Lance not taking the 44 million/4 year offer. Yeah, they dodged that bullet. edit: 
Jack's Flow fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 10:53
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IcePhoenix posted:Apparently the Bucks kept calling to try to get Rubio and Milt just asked if they were ready to give up Middleton every time. I'm not sure what they were expecting after the first couple tries. I'd be sad but TWolves would win that trade. Middleton is getting a Max this off season.
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Feb 19, 2016 13:54
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Middleton signed a deal last offseason. Was below the max too I believe. Not sure how they pulled that off.
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Feb 19, 2016 14:16
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I don't think the Bucks know what they are doing.
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Feb 19, 2016 14:37
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Lockback posted:I'd be sad but TWolves would win that trade. I'm not sure I agree with that. It would give the Wolves someone who can shoot the three but leave them with nobody to get the ball to him. It also means you're probably going back to investing in Zach at PG and I am Not A Fan of that.
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Feb 19, 2016 14:44
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It comes and goes. Sometimes they make good moves. The Bucks also have their own Rich Paul that I believe represents Kidd, MCW, Middleton, Monroe and I want to say 1 or 2 more.
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Feb 19, 2016 14:45
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I would take Middleton over Rubio in a heartbeat. They can go and draft a PG with their top 5 pick next year or trade for someone like Jeff Teague to fill the role. Then again I'm not a huge Rubio fan.
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Feb 19, 2016 14:47
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Niwrad posted:Middleton signed a deal last offseason. Was below the max too I believe. Not sure how they pulled that off. poo poo your right. I thought he was entering RFA this coming year. Front loaded contract too. Whelp, way to go Milwaukee. IcePhoenix posted:I'm not sure I agree with that. It would give the Wolves someone who can shoot the three but leave them with nobody to get the ball to him. It also means you're probably going back to investing in Zach at PG and I am Not A Fan of that. Niwrad posted:I would take Middleton over Rubio in a heartbeat. They can go and draft a PG with their top 5 pick next year or trade for someone like Jeff Teague to fill the role. Then again I'm not a huge Rubio fan. Basically this. I am a huge Rubio fan but you can get a guy who can fill in his role at 70% (and be a better shooter) way easier than you can find a guy who can play the 2 and 3, shoot really well, and has the tools to be a decent defender. I don't think you ever start Lavine at the 1, but you can find someone.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:10
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It's nice that the Pistons are now "winning" trades again (yeah, it's too early to tell). It makes it easier to forget that Middleton and Knight were given away for Jennings.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:48
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Lockback posted:Basically this. I am a huge Rubio fan but you can get a guy who can fill in his role at 70% (and be a better shooter) way easier than you can find a guy who can play the 2 and 3, shoot really well, and has the tools to be a decent defender. I don't think you ever start Lavine at the 1, but you can find someone. What do you do with LaVine then? Because if you're starting Middleton/Wiggins at the 2/3, with Shabazz coming off the bench for 25 mpg, and not playing LaVine as a point (which you shouldn't) then you just took away all his minutes.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:09
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Call of Cholula posted:It's nice that the Pistons are now "winning" trades again (yeah, it's too early to tell). It makes it easier to forget that Middleton and Knight were given away for Jennings. Joe Dumars had a lot of success drafting wing players that reminded him of himself
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Feb 19, 2016 16:12
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Middleton is better than Rubio.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:12
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IcePhoenix posted:What do you do with LaVine then? Because if you're starting Middleton/Wiggins at the 2/3, with Shabazz coming off the bench for 25 mpg, and not playing LaVine as a point (which you shouldn't) then you just took away all his minutes. I'd actually like to see Shabazz play a little small-ball 4 with Dieng or KAT at the 5 for some of his minutes, LaVine being a 1 or 2 off the bench (I don't mind LaVine running point for the bench and just embracing being a gunner). You spot Martin in where you can to round out the Wing rotation. It's not really crowded at the Wing, you just have guys who can play multiple positions.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:17
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The bucks never want a pg who can shoot threes again. Jerryd Bayless played really well as their starter when Carper Willensson was hurt. They seem to be remaking the entire team into more of a conventional team, after the long armed windmill team fell apart without Knight and Lurry Saunders. That MCW trade was just loving terrible. Call of Cholula posted:It's nice that the Pistons are now "winning" trades again (yeah, it's too early to tell). It makes it easier to forget that Middleton and Knight were given away for Jennings. Jennings was a much better prospect and when given the chance to play in the right system, showed he was a top 5 pg, Knight was and will always be a combo guard without pg instincts who's at his best with someone else making decisions. Middleton was a sweetener that they didn't want to trade, but Hammond demanded, he was just playing well in the d-league at the time. More than anything it's proof that Joe Dumars is the best mid lottery to second round drafter of all time.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:28
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straight up brolic posted:Middleton is better than Rubio. It can be a good trade in a vacuum but still be a bad trade in reality. Lockback posted:I'd actually like to see Shabazz play a little small-ball 4 with Dieng or KAT at the 5 for some of his minutes, LaVine being a 1 or 2 off the bench (I don't mind LaVine running point for the bench and just embracing being a gunner). You spot Martin in where you can to round out the Wing rotation. It's not really crowded at the Wing, you just have guys who can play multiple positions. The problem with LaVine at point is that he hasn't really shown any capability of running an offense. If the wolves aren't playing iso-ball (which is awful) then it's just a bogged down mess. That's a problem, even for the second unit.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:28
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IcePhoenix posted:It can be a good trade in a vacuum but still be a bad trade in reality. It's understandable that they want him to hold the ball to force him to learn, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be capable. Dante Exum has at least shown handles. Every single thing about LaVine says "shooting guard." Playing him at pg is a tanking strategy
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Feb 19, 2016 16:29
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IcePhoenix posted:The problem with LaVine at point is that he hasn't really shown any capability of running an offense. If the wolves aren't playing iso-ball (which is awful) then it's just a bogged down mess. That's a problem, even for the second unit. Yeah, but your 2nd unit is pretty bare. LaVine can shoot off the dribble and gently caress around on the perimeter a fair bit, while Shabazz can do his garbage-man bit, or Dieng and try to get his ugly offense to work. Or Bjelica can be terrible. LaVine looks bad when he takes shots away from better players, but when he's steering a pretty messy bench unit he's pretty good. I've also liked him playing the 2 in the starting unit, but I feel like you can find an upgrade on the starting wing that will be a better fit.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:33
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Lockback posted:LaVine looks bad when he takes shots away from better players, but when he's steering a pretty messy bench unit he's pretty good. I've also liked him playing the 2 in the starting unit, but I feel like you can find an upgrade on the starting wing that will be a better fit. I agree with this, I'm just saying that the benefit of bringing in a guy like Middleton is lost (and then some) if you lose Rubio from that unit.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:07
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IcePhoenix posted:The problem with LaVine at point is that he hasn't really shown any capability of running an offense. If the wolves aren't playing iso-ball (which is awful) then it's just a bogged down mess. That's a problem, even for the second unit. Who cares though? The Wolves are rebuilding. Goal should just be about acquiring the best possible players, not finding the perfect match. Middleton is a more valuable player than Rubio (especially on this contract). In the short term you don't have a PG but you aren't contending. You can grab a guy like Teague or one of the other PGs that pop up on the market every so often. Or use your lottery pick to grab one you like. Middleton, Wiggins, and KAT is a really solid core. Rubio is a PG who can't shoot in a league that relies on shooting. Niwrad fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 17:19
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Yeah. Plus If you give Lavine a year or half a year where he has to play PG you are going to force him to learn, or you will learn that he can't. Personally i think Lavine projects to be a combo guard off the bench. You can run him at the 2 or the 1 depending on match-ups and what you need.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:30
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Dejan Bimble posted:Jennings was a much better prospect and when given the chance to play in the right system, showed he was a top 5 pg, Knight was and will always be a combo guard without pg instincts who's at his best with someone else making decisions. Middleton was a sweetener that they didn't want to trade, but Hammond demanded, he was just playing well in the d-league at the time. More than anything it's proof that Joe Dumars is the best mid lottery to second round drafter of all time. Top 5 PG? I think that's way too generous. He showcased flashed of incredibly talent but was mostly known as a chucker who loved hero ball. I'm not saying that Jennings wasn't the best player in the trade at the time, it still doesn't change the fact that Middleton is now by far superior to either of the other two. I'm not saying "ugh how did they not know better" but its still a bummer. I do agree that Dumars became an amazing value drafter. He was the Pistons President from 2000-2014 and in that time consistently got value (competent starters or bench players) out of mid-lottery to late firsts. 2002 23rd Pick - Tayshaun Prince 2003 25th Pick - Carlos Delfino 2005 26th Pick - Jason Maxiel 2005 56th Pick - Amir Johnson 2007 15th Pick - Rodney Stuckey 2007 27th Pick - Arron Afflalo 2009 39th Pick - Jonas Jerebko 2011 33rd Pick - Kyle Singler (lol) 2012 39th Pick - Khris Middleton Those are all picks out of the lottery or in the 2nd round - that's gotta compare very well against other GMs of the era.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:30
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