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HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

Eastern Europe thread goes fourth.

Lots of stuff has happened in Eastern Europe since the last OP, but not much has changed.

Ukraine



The reason for the original Eastern Europe thread. Ukraine still has Russians and Russian-backed militants occupying parts of Donetsk and Luhansk. The militants insist the �Kyiv Junta� recognize their sovereignty. The Ukrainian government is having none of it. It may not be in the news as much as it was two years ago, but there is still fighting going on in the ATO. The Minsk ceasefire officially is holding the violence down, but yesterday alone there were 56 violations.

Meanwhile, they're still protesting in Kyiv.
https://twitter.com/HromadskeTV/status/702816621073731585

They're still burning tires in Kyiv.
https://twitter.com/radiosvoboda/status/702766244802514945

Reforms in the Ukrainian government have been slow and naturally people are mad about that. President Poroshenko asked Prime Minister Yatsenyuk to step down but he survived the no-confidence vote and remains.

Crimea is still hosed. Still under Russian occupation and any loyal Ukrainians or Tatars are finding it harder to live there. Some resistance has led to power lines being sabotaged, and water is becoming scarce. The Ukrainian government today launched a new campaign, �Crimea is Ukraine.�

Poland



Ask any Polish goon how things are going in their country and you will get pages of details about new government, new president, and how they're doing a splendid job turning Poland into a complete shithole.

Poland elected handsome and charismatic Andrzej Duda president, and a new government in 2015. The majority party is PiS (Law and Justice) and they are wasting no time making lots of changes in Poland that seems to be either causing our Polish brothers and sisters to suffer serious liver damage or brain aneurysms. Nothing is safe, the media, the courts, nothing!

Russia


Despite absolutely not helping militants in Donbass and absolutely not only targeting ISIS in Syrian airstrikes, Russia has plenty of problems on its plate. Oil is very cheap, and the Russian ruble is very expensive. A certain goon moderator continues to make it really hard for official Russian dialogue to remain believable. And now to debunk Brown Moses and his conspiracy theories about what caused MH17 to crash, here is a bona fide 911 Truther to explain everything he got wrong.

Standard and Poors projects the Russian economy will continue to decline this year. Fighting wars in two countries, even if Russian authorities deny involvement in one of them has to be expensive, especially when it costs 84,00 rubles to buy a euro.

Russia's a tough country though. They've survived times of troubles, famine, wars, so there's no reason they won't survive a little economic hardship too. Besides, killing rebels ISIS in Syria shows they're still trying to help, right? No one will notice Gazprom closing the taps on Turkey's gas.



Belarus



It still exists. Lukashenko was elected to his fifth term as president in another totally unsurprising landslide. Today Putin was in Minsk with Medvedev to discuss The Union State with Lukashenko. Minsk was voted the worst city in Europe to live in. No one knows what's going on with the Russian air base anymore, but plenty of missiles appear to be cropping up along the border Belarus shares with Poland and Lithuania.

July 1. 2016: Today Belarus went through currency Denomination. 10,000 br of the old money is now worth 1 br of the new money. For the first time, Belarus will also have coins. The first paper currency denomination is the 5 br. So far, the denomination is going as smoothly as you could expect.



Belarusians are of course having fun posting to social media today with the new money.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F/

https://twitter.com/ser9ee/status/748793895555768320

Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia

All three countries still have NATO troops taking up space in their countries. There were articles about how racist some Estonians were to NATO troops published the day before their independence day. Latvia would just like NATO to send more please. Lithuania is busy opening up a chain of burger restaurants in Florida. Vilnius was recently rated 79th in the world for having the best quality of life.

Balkan States and Southeastern Europe

Goons from these countries post in this thread often. Please continue!

Anything happening in the former Soviet Union states can be discussed here. Free-fire zone, within reason. Please continue to observe the No Clancy Chat policy. Slav-squatting, or videos of the excellent and safe driving conditions of Russia and other such things belong in the GBS thread. :ussr:

Some useful links:

Live UA Map Good real-time source for what's happening just about everywhere in the world now.

Bellingcat, or Brown Moses' slick website for citizen journalists

Vice News excellent series on the conflict in Eastern Ukraine.

Russian Zen - watch the price of oil and the Russian ruble fall in real time!




Polish news sources in English are hard to come by, but if you have Google Translate you're okay.

Russian news sources except for a few exceptions are Kremlin-controlled now.

More will be added as necessary.



In July of 2016, Poland hosted a NATO summit where the focus of the meeting was dealing with big bad Russia. Troops from the US, Germany, Canada, and England will be part of defensive forces in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Estonia recently received 12 F-15 fighters from the United States.

Somehow, the US presidential election has an Eastern European connection: Donald Trump's campaign has a number of campaign staff and advisers who also worked for Putin or Viktor Yanukovych. Trump has blurted out in interviews and speeches that NATO has lost it's usefulness and helping other NATO members should be based on a "pay to play" basis. At the Republican National Convention in mid July Trump insisted that the United States position on Supporting Ukraine against Russia, especially the annexation of Crimea should be changed to Russia's favor. A week prior to the convention, Trump's foreign policy adviser was in Russia speaking at a dinner.

But it could all be a coincidence, just like this Screw Up Your lifePeople Magazine article about Ivanka Trump on holiday in Croatia with Vladimir Putin's girlfriend, Wendi Deng Murdoch (yes, that's Rupert Murdoch's ex wife).



In early August the Kremlin accused Ukraine of attempting a terrorist attack on one of the checkpoints into Crimea. FSB stopped the attack, but an FSB officer and a Russian Soldier died. Out of a team of seven only one arrest has been made. Ukrainian government denies it of course, and suggest it was FSB fighting Drunk Russians,and now Russia wants to blame it on Ukraine. Poroshenko issued a statement saying the Kremlin's accusation are "cynical and insane." There was a joint meeting of the UNSC this week, and Putin has vowed to retaliate against the US and Ukraine for the attack.

Minsk II is effectively dead, as fighting in the ATO in Eastern Ukraine has escalated on both sides. Russian military buildup on the borders of Ukraine and Belarus have people concerned Russia may attempt another invasion soon.

Brown Moses posted:

So Graham Phillips turned up at our press event today, and thought it would be awesome to stand in front of dozens of journalists who had been waiting patiently for about an hour and start screaming at me about NATO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeI3GssR2r0

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 9, 2018

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Budzilla
Oct 14, 2007

We can all learn from our past mistakes.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Fighting wars in two countries, even if Russian authorities deny involvement in one of them has to be expensive, especially when it costs 84,00 rubles to buy a euro.
Bloomberg had this pic in an article a short while ago.

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010

Budzilla posted:

Bloomberg had this pic in an article a short while ago.

Western propaganda photoshop. Putin produces no tears

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

Budzilla posted:

Bloomberg had this pic in an article a short while ago.


That's going in the OP.

Horns of Hattin
Dec 21, 2011
The Russia-Ukraine conflict developments of the past 2 years explained in 20 seconds:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c_MVybj7bqE

ass struggle
Dec 25, 2012

by Athanatos
Ukrainian forces stationed on the high ground around Sherokyne have occupied the coastal dacha suburb after a year of fighting for it. DNR forces apparently up and left one day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVWKKNSeYY

jaete
Jun 21, 2009


Nap Ghost

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Russia has plenty of problems on its plate. Oil is very cheap, and the Russian ruble is very expensive.

I think you got that wrong; oil is very cheap, and so is the ruble. But the cheap ruble is making everything expensive for the Russians.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

That's going in the OP.

You also posted the same link twice in the Poland section.
I'd like to know about the other thing, unless the Polish are really PiSsed about that one thing.

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
Change one of the duplicated :poland: links to this guardian piece someone linked, it's a very good read imo.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
PiSsed is going to be Poland's default state for quite a while.

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Budzilla posted:

Bloomberg had this pic in an article a short while ago.


lmao

Anne Frank Funk
Nov 4, 2008

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

charismatic Andrzej Duda

Well then!

Dusty Baker 2
Jul 8, 2011

Keyboard Inghimasi


One year ago tomorrow.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

anilEhilated posted:

PiSsed is going to be Poland's default state for quite a while.

Thanks to Poland, I understand why "pissed" means both "angry" and "drunk".

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

Dusty Baker 2 posted:



One year ago tomorrow.

There will be a memorial service for Nemtsov in Vilnius on the 28th.

http://www.baltictimes.com/vilnius_to_remember_slain_kremlin_critic_boris_nemtsov_on_february_28/

quote:

On Saturday February 28, Vilnius will commemorate the murder of Boris Nemtsov. The date will mark the year anniversary since the staunch critic of Russian president Vladimir Putin, was shot several times in the back while crossing the Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge near the Kremlin in Moscow.

The event will be held at 13:00 on Lukiškės Square opposite the former KGB headquarters.

On Thursday February 25, it was announced that Vilinus’ city council had taken the unanimous decision to re-name either a square or street after Nemtsov; an initiative put forward by The Homeland Union - Lithuania Christian Democrats (Lithuanian: Tėvynės sąjunga – Lietuvos krikščionys demokratai/TS-LKD) party.

“This Saturday we will commemorate one year since Boris Nemtsov was brutually murdered in Moscow, while fighting for a democratic Russia,” Vilnius city councillor and TS-LKD member Mykolas Majauskas told The Baltic Times. “The council took a unanimous decision to remember Nemtsov as a true friend to Lithuania, as well as a freedom fighter by naming a street or square after him.”

Regarding the street or square that will take Nemtsov’s name, Majauskas said a final decision had not yet been made.

However, on February 25 the BNS news service claimed that Lukiškės Square and the un-named street near the Russian Embassy in the Lithuanian capital are two possible locations.

“We have not yet chosen a particular street,” Majauskas clarified. “But once we decide, we hope that his soul will find peace and a home here in Vilnius.”

When asked about Nemtsov’s relationship with Lithuania, Majauskas explained that the former Russian Deputy Prime Minister under Boris Yeltsin “was not only a true Russian democrat, but also a dear friend of Lithuania who continually supported us in cementing our efforts in establishing our independence from the Soviet Union.

“He visited Lithuania many times, and took part in a number of important events and public discussions.”

Majauskas, 34, also revealed that Nemtsov considered political asylum in Lithuania in 2012; the year that marked Putin’s third term as Russian President.

“He even considered seeking political asylum in Lithuania back in 2012, but decided to stay put and face the threat and challenges back home in Russia.”

In reaction to Nemtsov’s murder, March 1, 2015, saw tens of thousands march in his memory in Moscow, with another several thousand taking part in marches in Russia’s second city, St. Petersburg.

His murder also sparked outrage internationally, with German Chancellor Angela Merkel describing Nemtsov’s killing as a “cowardly murder.”

In the run-up to his death, Nemtsov was particularly scathing of President Putin. In May 2015, two months after his death, a report entitled by Nemtsov called ‘Putin. War’ was published. It covers the preparations for the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation and the involvement of Russian troops in the war in Eastern Ukraine.

In 2011, Nemtsov also co-wrote another report called ‘Putin. Corruption’, which addressed alleged corruption within VPutin’s inner circle.

Pizdec
Dec 10, 2012

Pierogi posted:

Well then!
"Bitch I'm adorable"

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

sparatuvs posted:

Ukrainian forces stationed on the high ground around Sherokyne have occupied the coastal dacha suburb after a year of fighting for it. DNR forces apparently up and left one day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVWKKNSeYY

I like how every single Ukrainian homonazi soldier in that video speaks Russian.

Can anyone confirm that (some of) the weapons and equipment found there were russia-only models and variants?

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

Pizdec posted:

"Bitch I'm adorable"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuYXZSW6rE

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

mobby_6kl posted:

I like how every single Ukrainian homonazi soldier in that video speaks Russian.

Can anyone confirm that (some of) the weapons and equipment found there were russia-only models and variants?

Here's a good link. One prominent example is the AK-74M, a variant that's exclusive to Russia, Azerbaijan, and Cyprus. Guess which of those three countries probably has a stake in invading Ukraine. Also GM-94 pump-action grenade launchers, which are only in service with Russia, PKP Pechenegs, and SVD-S sniper rifles.

Someone a little more vehicle spergy could also identify the vehicles, but there's very specific T-72 variants (among others) that are Russian.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


Eastern Europe, best Europe!

AlexanderCA
Jul 21, 2010

by Cyrano4747
So it's been a while since I've followed the Ukraine conflict. Back then it seemed Ukraine was relying on militia type forces to resist Russian aggression. Do they now use their conventional forces? And if so don't those forces have the mass to retake the east or are they held back by larger concerns of escalation?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

AlexanderCA posted:

So it's been a while since I've followed the Ukraine conflict. Back then it seemed Ukraine was relying on militia type forces to resist Russian aggression. Do they now use their conventional forces? And if so don't those forces have the mass to retake the east or are they held back by larger concerns of escalation?

No, the Ukrainian army is garbage. It basically are those militia's. They don't have the money to even use what they have.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005

In this video courtesy of TV Rain, the head of the Moscow Orthodox Church announces Pope Francis wants to repent and return to the fold of the Holy Orthodox Church.

https://tvrain.ru/articles/nastojatel-404341/

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




AlexanderCA posted:

So it's been a while since I've followed the Ukraine conflict. Back then it seemed Ukraine was relying on militia type forces to resist Russian aggression. Do they now use their conventional forces? And if so don't those forces have the mass to retake the east or are they held back by larger concerns of escalation?
Their army is part militias, part what they had, part new recruits during the conflict, poor and underdeveloped as already mentioned. Around August 2014 they did, in fact, have the capability to go in and retake the areas, which is when, conveniently enough, Russian army did cross the border to save their cronies.

Edit: As for now, they have some problems they should resolve before they get up in arms with Russia again, even if it's reclamation of their own country. Besides that, the current state of affairs regarding entrenchment is not completely clear, so who knows if this can realistically be done, at all.

Somehow, I feel, it indeed is not really doable at this point, and Ukrainian south-east is not coming back for next decade or two.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Feb 26, 2016

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Baronjutter posted:

No, the Ukrainian army is garbage. It basically are those militia's. They don't have the money to even use what they have.

False. Basically all the fightig was done by the army, while miliia commanders were posting on Facebook.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




There was fighting done by some of all the various battalions and such, but they, by large, were not able to maintain combat operations without embedding with the national guard or the armed forces proper. Makes sense, if you think about logistics.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

In this video courtesy of TV Rain, the head of the Moscow Orthodox Church announces Pope Francis wants to repent and return to the fold of the Holy Orthodox Church.

https://tvrain.ru/articles/nastojatel-404341/

I bet he conveniently he forgets to mention that his church is in subjugation to the Ecumenical Patriarchy of Constantinopole, and therefore even if the Pope accepted the supremacy of the ecumene of Orthodox churches in full communion, the Russian patriarch wouldn't benefit from it, being a lowly bitch in the ecclesiastic hierarchy.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


steinrokkan posted:

I bet he conveniently he forgets to mention that his church is in subjugation to the Ecumenical Patriarchy of Constantinopole, and therefore even if the Pope accepted the supremacy of the ecumene of Orthodox churches in full communion, the Russian patriarch wouldn't benefit from it, being a lowly bitch in the ecclesiastic hierarchy.

Uhh, excuse me!

2nd Rome < 3rd Rome

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
a goon said that the DDOS is from russia and is due to brown moses. world's first D&DOS.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




I thought angry LP kids bought DDoS instead of accounts after Lowtax disabled reading access to unregistered users.

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010
If that is the reality of Ukrainian military then shouldn't/isn't the West flooding Ukraine with money and military aid? Like, everything they need without the West actually directly involving themselves militarily?

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




TheFallenEvincar posted:

If that is the reality of Ukrainian military then shouldn't/isn't the West flooding Ukraine with money and military aid? Like, everything they need without the West actually directly involving themselves militarily?
West doesn't care that much.

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010
They're really not that alarmed at all by Putin encroaching into Eastern Europe like this? I thought NATO was increasing troop presence and exercises all over the region. Are they really just okay with Ukraine flailing like this?
I guess.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Trade with Russia is much much more important to Europe than the fate of Ukraine, a hopelessly corrupt and poor garbage country that makes Russia look like a diverse and efficient economy. Despite Russia billing this as an epic east vs west war they've been forced into, the west is mostly ignoring the entire situation. They have little to no interests at stake, why spend money or political capital in the area? The company that made S.T.A.L.K.E.R. went under years ago, Ukraine produces nothing the world gives a poo poo about and isn't a member of any alliance.

No friends, nothing of value, and a violent possessive ex next door. Ukraine is hosed.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Disco Infiva posted:

Uhh, excuse me!

2nd Rome < 3rd Rome

Putin being a submissive little boy at Mt. Athos, the monastic theocratic state under direct authority of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.




BTW, I think if a Russian citizen decided to apply for place in the monasteries of Athos and were chosen for initiation, I believe the Russian government would be obliged by international law to let them go. I wonder if there are any politically motivated de facto immigrants among the many Russian monks living there.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

chitoryu12 posted:

Here's a good link. One prominent example is the AK-74M, a variant that's exclusive to Russia, Azerbaijan, and Cyprus. Guess which of those three countries probably has a stake in invading Ukraine. Also GM-94 pump-action grenade launchers, which are only in service with Russia, PKP Pechenegs, and SVD-S sniper rifles.

Someone a little more vehicle spergy could also identify the vehicles, but there's very specific T-72 variants (among others) that are Russian.
Those are the little Green Men of Crimea, I meant specifically referenced in that video - the soldiers point out that some of the weapons and equipment they just recovered from the abandoned area and claim they're only used in Russia internally and not officially exported. Not that anyone here actually doubts that Russia is supporting the whole thing at this point.


kalstrams posted:

There was fighting done by some of all the various battalions and such, but they, by large, were not able to maintain combat operations without embedding with the national guard or the armed forces proper. Makes sense, if you think about logistics.

Speaking of militias, I saw an interesting report on Inter news here today. The family of a KIA Right Sector volunteer was demanding for him to receive proper combatant status, and thus all kinds of support that entails for the remaining family. As much as this sucks for the family, the courts have been denying this so far, which is IMO the correct thing. Because first of all, who the gently caress volunteers to go fighting when they have an unborn child on the way, and secondly, it's better not to legitimize these sorts of militias anyway.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




mobby_6kl posted:

Speaking of militias, I saw an interesting report on Inter news here today. The family of a KIA Right Sector volunteer was demanding for him to receive proper combatant status, and thus all kinds of support that entails for the remaining family. As much as this sucks for the family, the courts have been denying this so far, which is IMO the correct thing. Because first of all, who the gently caress volunteers to go fighting when they have an unborn child on the way, and secondly, it's better not to legitimize these sorts of militias anyway.
I agree on all counts here. Not going to slander the dude for going to fight, as irresponsible as that was, but that doesn't change the outlook the cause either.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
^^^
Right Sector is also one of the very few groups that refused any kind of legal status, too. Like most units were at least nominally reporting to interior ministry
from the very first day of their creation (and were since generally either incorporated directly into National Guard, Armed Forces, or in a few cases disbanded
because they were just using their uniforms as cover for crime), but Right Sector Volunteers Corps were literary some dudes (and some ladies) with hunting rifles
that later picked up some actual military equipment on the spot.

TheFallenEvincar posted:

They're really not that alarmed at all by Putin encroaching into Eastern Europe like this? I thought NATO was increasing troop presence and exercises all over the region. Are they really just okay with Ukraine flailing like this?
I guess.

Their voters don't care, and only time Ukraine is likely to get mentioned in the news is when there are fisticuffs/Prime Minister getting ballet-lifted in the Parliament, not things like yet-another
serviceman getting killed or wounded just about every day. (Though I think the state of Ukrainian army is severely underestimated by some of the folks herein).

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Baloogan posted:

a goon said that the DDOS is from russia and is due to brown moses. world's first D&DOS.

If you're referring to my post, that was empty speculation based on the timing.

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Martin BadClixx
Jul 14, 2012

dada stijl

:cumpolice:

OddObserver posted:



Their voters don't care, and only time Ukraine is likely to get mentioned in the news is when there are fisticuffs/Prime Minister getting ballet-lifted in the Parliament, not things like yet-another
serviceman getting killed or wounded just about every day. (Though I think the state of Ukrainian army is severely underestimated by some of the folks herein).

Basicly this. People here dont feel like we 'owe' ukraine anything, we have our 'own problems'. Here in Holland ukraine mainly gets in the news about our referendum (we will have one comming summer if we want ukraine signing an tradeagreement with the EU) and the fact that some rich olicharchs ordered the theft of a few famous Dutch paintings from a Dutch museum. Since the ukraine government doesnt want to step up their game, the paintings are still for sale by some ukraine lawyer.

Basicly for most people here poland is the easternmost civilized country, just barely. Behind that its only Mad Max in a snow setting.

These times with right wing populism being as big is it is, doesnt bring out the best in people.

These arent my opinions. Just what I feel is the opinion of the average Joe.

Martin BadClixx fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Feb 27, 2016

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