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Call Me Charlie posted:That isn't "evict all the Mexicans, they're rapists anyway". He's talking about Mexico encouraging illegal immigrants. And you'll probably be shocked that alot of legal immigrants aren't fans of people who circumvent the system they had to go through. The Indian students at my school are incredulous when I explain that illegal immigrants get to stay forever because amnesty but they have to go home after their H1B runs out. Edit: and also that Democrats are holding H1B reform hostage over the issue of amnesty
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Feb 28, 2016 20:54
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Whitecloak posted:Tell that to the towns turned to rubble by offshoring, or to the people forced to train their foreign replacement workers to qualify for unemployment. OK. "Towns turned to rubble by offshoring, and people forced to train your foreign replacement workers: if you sincerely use the word 'globalist' you are definitely a racist, a nativist and a bigot, and my sorrow for your family is balanced by my enjoyment at your suffering."
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Feb 28, 2016 20:56
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on the left posted:The Indian students at my school are incredulous when I explain that illegal immigrants get to stay forever because amnesty but they have to go home after their H1B runs out. lol H1B is not a student visa you giant liar
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Feb 28, 2016 21:01
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Peven Stan posted:lol H1B is not a student visa you giant liar They will get jobs after school that require an H1B
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Feb 28, 2016 21:07
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Call Me Charlie posted:Unless I'm missing a newer quote I'll give you a hint: lots of Mexican Americans (including regular voters) are relatives of these illegal immigrants that Trump is calling rapists. If a candidate called your family a bunch of rapists, you would not vote for them.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:08
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Bullfrog posted:Funny how people so concerned about the "working class" are so willing to shove minority issues off the plank once their feelings are hurt by minor things like changing language. It is probably because the left isn't a cohesive body at this point, but there is a pretty significant and obvious splits happening. I think a lot of the confusion about Trump is that American politics has been in such a relative narrow field of debate that someone like Trump (at least what he is currently pushing) is very hard to place. Trump is not a "leftist" but nevertheless he is likely going to soak up votes by groups that use to vote closer to the left especially working class/disaffected whites and union workers. Ultimately much of it is in at its root the result of "third-way" centrism. specifically as the Democratic Party moved right and as economic conditions for most of the population got worse it left a yawning gap that was just waiting to be filled. Ultimately, it was felt mostly unfilled so long because how controlled the primary process usually is until now when it has more or less have gone off the rails. Moreover, many of those working class/disaffected whites are racists/xenophobes or at least not socially progressive but nevertheless were still a key voting bloc for the Democrats, and now the question is whether they jump ship or not jump ship to Trump who has engineered his campaign to appeal to them and even his tax policy partially reflects this.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:08
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SedanChair posted:OK. "Towns turned to rubble by offshoring, and people forced to train your foreign replacement workers: if you sincerely use the word 'globalist' you are definitely a racist, a nativist and a bigot, and my sorrow for your family is balanced by my enjoyment at your suffering." It's this lack of understanding at the plight of middle America that is causing the backlash. Instead of offering real meat and bones, you call those who criticize free trade and open borders racists. I was trying to avoid the word 'neoliberal' due to overuse in discourse but if that convention is preferable I can go with that instead.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:11
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Whitecloak posted:Then the question is one of tone and not substance. The message of protectionism and border restriction could be sold without the race baiting, to be sure. Globalists seem to do a fine job of meshing all resistance to their world view as racism, however. Globalists: Let us mesh all resistance to our world view with racism Trump: LET ME HELP YOU WITH THAT
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Feb 28, 2016 21:14
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computer parts posted:I'll give you a hint: lots of Mexican Americans (including regular voters) are relatives of these illegal immigrants that Trump is calling rapists. Who cares? Trump's campaign is all about the realization that all you need is a few more percentage points of the white vote rather than wasting your time and effort on winning minority votes from people who are going to vote for Clinton. It's pretty funny that Bernie Sanders supporters are finding this out now and having an autistic meltdown about it.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:14
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TheBalor posted:It seems like a lot of the Bernie people going to Trump are motivated by a mixture of rage and despair. They want to lash out at the establishment in any way they can, and who's more establishment than Hillary Clinton? My dad is in this group, he will vote for Bernie this Tuesday, but if he doesnt get the nomination he's voting Trump in the General. The Catch? My dad is Mexican! He just hates the DNC establishment that much!
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Feb 28, 2016 21:15
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on the left posted:Trump's campaign is all about the realization that all you need is a few more percentage points of the white vote rather than wasting your time and effort on winning minority votes from people who are going to vote for Clinton. Ah yes, all Republicans have to do is ignore everyone but white people. If only they did this in 2012, they would've won!
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Feb 28, 2016 21:16
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computer parts posted:Ah yes, all Republicans have to do is ignore everyone but white people. If only they did this in 2012, they would've won! Yes, people have run the numbers on this and it would be much easier to slightly increase the margin of white votes than to capture large parts of the Hispanic or Black votes. Link to article. Lots of young people went out and voted in Obama in 2008. If Hillary is nominated, it doesn't seem likely a lot of people will be energized to come out and vote for her. In contrast, Trump is channeling a major base of support among people who can and will vote for him.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:20
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on the left posted:Lots of young people went out and voted in Obama in 2008. If Hillary is nominated, it doesn't seem likely a lot of people will be energized to come out and vote for her. Actually it does.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:22
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computer parts posted:I'll give you a hint: lots of Mexican Americans (including regular voters) are relatives of these illegal immigrants that Trump is calling rapists. Except he didn't. He was making a point that Mexico encourages alot of their unwanted people to cross the border. If I said the 'Mariel boatlift' had a bunch of criminals and rapists on board, that doesn't mean I'm saying all Cubans are criminals and rapists. The statement is factually wrong but that doesn't mean you have to twist it into something it's not.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:24
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on the left posted:Yes, people have run the numbers on this and it would be much easier to slightly increase the margin of white votes than to capture large parts of the Hispanic or Black votes. Link to article. Call Me Charlie posted:Except he didn't. He was making a point that Mexico encourages alot of their unwanted people to cross the border. If I said the 'Mariel boatlift' had a bunch of criminals and rapists on board, that doesn't mean I'm saying all Cubans are criminals and rapists. The statement is factually wrong but that doesn't mean you have to twist it into something it's not. Assepoester fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 21:24
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Call Me Charlie posted:Except he didn't. He was making a point that Mexico encourages alot of their unwanted people to cross the border. Yeah I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who said "Go back to Univision".
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Feb 28, 2016 21:26
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Cardboard Box A posted:Boy it sure is a good thing that Hillary's rich New York friend is trying his best to make sure people will be energized to vote against him then A substantial portion of these people are going to be miffed about Bernie Sanders losing the nomination to Hillary. Does Hillary Clinton come off as likeable or a desireable candidate based on anything except the fact that she's not Trump? Even BlackLivesMatter has turned on her over the superpredator thing.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:28
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Whitecloak posted:It's this lack of understanding at the plight of middle America that is causing the backlash. Instead of offering real meat and bones, you call those who criticize free trade and open borders racists. I was trying to avoid the word 'neoliberal' due to overuse in discourse but if that convention is preferable I can go with that instead. Can you really say I don't understand? I understand people's challenges, I will just make fun of them if they turn to racism as a solution.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:29
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SedanChair posted:Can you really say I don't understand? I understand people's challenges, I will just make fun of them if they turn to racism as a solution. What is the solution then? If it is racist to defend working class interests and demand trade policy that encourages domestic growth then what would you offer these people?
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Feb 28, 2016 21:30
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Whitecloak posted:Tell that to the towns turned to rubble by offshoring, or to the people forced to train their foreign replacement workers to qualify for unemployment. How dare those brown people take those good white jobs right? Seriously are you like the democrat Reagan forgot or something? I thought racist white union members from flyover states got peeled off the D ticket a long time ago. Congratulations SedanChair, your constant accusations of anyone who doesn't agree with your economic positions being a racist has finally hit pay dirt.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:32
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computer parts posted:Yeah I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who said "Go back to Univision". There's no benefit of the doubt. Read the quote. It's not what you posted. And I'm sure that Trump kicked out the Univision reporter because he was latino, not because he's employed by one of Hillary Clinton's biggest supporters. http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/univision-hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-117851
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Feb 28, 2016 21:33
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Whitecloak posted:What is the solution then? If it is racist to defend working class interests and demand trade policy that encourages domestic growth then what would you offer these people? Support socialist politicians.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:36
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SedanChair posted:Support socialist politicians. Would that I could. This is why Bernie was by far the first choice. I doubt an actual socialist will make it to ballot in southwestern Ohio, though.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:37
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on the left posted:A substantial portion of these people are going to be miffed about Bernie Sanders losing the nomination to Hillary. Does Hillary Clinton come off as likeable or a desireable candidate based on anything except the fact that she's not Trump? Even BlackLivesMatter has turned on her over the superpredator thing. Quantify "substantiail". Note: r/s4p does not count.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:37
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Going to post some youtube videos as we try to figure out this whole movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1j65Um0TNk Nixon's speech in '68. (Sorry I just love Anthony Hopkins as Nixon..so I'm using this) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJprbO1mbUs Donald Trump in 1990. Here he is saying the exact same talking points that he now brings up in his current speeches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7kn2-GEmM Ross Perot in 1992 sounding similiar to what Trump has said in regards to trade, and about "political insiders". I don't know I can see parts of Reagan (think celebrity. think "There you go again", etc), Nixon and Perot in Trump's campaign.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:41
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Call Me Charlie posted:There's no benefit of the doubt. Read the quote. It's not what you posted. What he said was that Mexico was sending all the illegal immigrants to the US and that they're not like [normal Americans], but are rapists and thieves instead.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:42
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Franco Potente posted:Quantify "substantiail". Note: r/s4p does not count. Sanders has a much larger share of the type of college student who spends his/her summer doing free labor for a presidential candidate. Obama was also popular with these people, but won the nomination.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:43
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Whitecloak posted:Would that I could. This is why Bernie was by far the first choice. I doubt an actual socialist will make it to ballot in southwestern Ohio, though. Then become one yourself.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:44
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on the left posted:Sanders has a much larger share of the type of college student who spends his/her summer doing free labor for a presidential candidate. Obama was also popular with these people, but won the nomination. Okay, now how are this demographic going to shift to Trump in substantial numbers to make up for his grievous deficit with minority demographics?
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Feb 28, 2016 21:46
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Why now? It's already been discussed here but in summary, people are tired of sneering leftists with worthless liberal arts degrees hammering identity politics down everyone's throat. Trump in no way represents the common person or whatever but make no mistake, he's gonna win because of this rhetoric.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:47
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computer parts posted:What he said was that Mexico was sending all the illegal immigrants to the US and that they're not like [normal Americans], but are rapists and thieves instead. The best part of Trump making these sorts of inaccurate proclamations is that the news will give him promotion for free, and that it turns out the truth is "We don't know who is coming over the border, because they are illegal. There's no background checks or anything else to stop illegal immigrants from hopping over the border and assuming a new name. It's not like we are able to stop the bad ones."
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Feb 28, 2016 21:48
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Franco Potente posted:Okay, now how are this demographic going to shift to Trump in substantial numbers to make up for his grievous deficit with minority demographics? They aren't going to shift to Trump, they will stay home or possibly vote third party.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:48
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on the left posted:The best part of Trump making these sorts of inaccurate proclamations is that the news will give him promotion for free, and that it turns out the truth is "We don't know who is coming over the border, because they are illegal. There's no background checks or anything else to stop illegal immigrants from hopping over the border and assuming a new name. It's not like we are able to stop the bad ones." Yes, I'm sure everyone is like your rapist Hispanic cousin that you made up.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:49
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SedanChair posted:Then become one yourself. Not a half-bad idea, though I'd need to calm down and rationalize a bit. And the town and county in which I am registered are so deep red that it's tea partiers all the way down... I don't think there's a single person to the left of Cruz in power right now.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:51
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on the left posted:They aren't going to shift to Trump, they will stay home or possibly vote third party. I ask again: where are you getting this from? A few disgruntled Sanderistas on this site/reddit are in no way indicative of larger demographic trends. This reads more like wishful thinking than anything else.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:52
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"Socialism" as represented by Sanders is not any type of solution to most of the problems espoused by the right-wing or workers in general. Sanders is a democratic socialist and the best you could hope for in his implementation of the "European model" is maybe better healthcare and a more reasonable foreign policy.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:54
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computer parts posted:What he said was that Mexico was sending all the illegal immigrants to the US and that they're not like [normal Americans], but are rapists and thieves instead. quote:“When Mexico (meaning the Mexican Government) sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you (pointing to the audience). They’re not sending you (pointing again). They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people! But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people." Which, again, you could say is a factually untrue statement. That the idea of Mexico encouraging the dregs of their society to come to America is absurd. But it's not close to computer parts posted:someone who's saying "evict all the Mexicans, they're rapists anyway". And I think most people that read the original quote will think the same thing.
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Feb 28, 2016 21:56
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Honest question, Do you think like Obama before her that Hillary will be able to motivate the democratic base and get them to the polls? Do you think she's going to be able to get minorities to so enthusiastically show support for her in the same manner that Obama experience? Do you think she's going to get the youth outreach that Obama got back in 2008? I don't see it. Not saying she's a bad candidate, but I don't get a lot of energy from people wanting to support her. I see in fighting between various groups within the base for one candidate or the other. ("BERNIE BROS!" "SHILLARY!!"), but I don't see anyone really believing in the same way that people felt about Obama in '08. I do think in the end that? That does indeed help Trump. As lovely as that sounds, he really doesn't need to worry about getting votes from minorities if he knows for a fact they'll be apathetic about this election cycle.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:00
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Call Me Charlie posted:
Well you'd be wrong (especially among Hispanics), but it's good to know your opinion. FuzzySkinner posted:Honest question, This is a very strange post because it assumes that Democrats are unable to overcome in-party fighting (despite the fact that they did, in 2008) but Republicans will always be able to overcome it (despite the fact that they didn't, in 2012). What evidence do you have that the GOP won't be any more divided than the Democrats are? Don't give me that "they vote in lockstep" horseshit, the past 6 years of Congress has shown that that doesn't happen any more.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:02
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Call Me Charlie posted:Which, again, you could say is a factually untrue statement. That the idea of Mexico encouraging the dregs of their society to come to America is absurd. But it's not close to Maybe you should try learning how to read Trump posted:And some, I assume, are good people! But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:02
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