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  • Locked thread
Hoover Dam
Jun 17, 2003

red white and blue forever
WELCOME TO MLS, WHERE THE RULES ARE MADE UP, THE POINTS DON'T MATTER, AND EVERYONE'S JERSEY IS BLUE



It's Saturday, March 5, 2016, and tomorrow begins the 21st Major League Soccer season, the top mens' league in the US and Canada. Our winter is over and no longer must we pretend to give a poo poo about Leicester City! LA imported a bunch of old Euros, Chicago burned everything to the ground and started anew, New England got more of Vancouver's leftovers, and we're all going to spend the year pretending the friggin' Timbers weren't last year's winners. NYCFC wowed us all by showing just how apathetic Pirlo could be, and Orlando City fans raced to the top of the league for being complete loving dorks, which, in MLS, is a real accomplishment. No expansion teams this year but next year there's a couple. If you're Didier Drogba, you're hanging out for a few weeks to avoid turf for as long as you can (bonne chance with that); if you're Jermaine Jones, you're in Denver waiting out a six game suspension because your last act as a Rev was living out the American dream by slugging a ref. DC have a new crest that looks like the eagle is wearing a corset and Columbus have a jersey that looks like they lost a fight with an inkjet cartridge. Many of the 2010 USMNT World Cup team and qualifying squad members went out and had babies this year, so look for them to be drafted in about 2032. (You think I'm kidding? LA just signed Roy Lassiter's kid). Seattle managed to keep Jordan Morris but lose Oba to the exotic and mysterious orient. And the Philadelphia Union are a team that exists.


...

WHAT'S AT STAKE

Trophies and tournaments to be won, besides MLS Cup: CONCACAF Champions League (er, places to play that next year 'cause uh), Multilevel Marketing Canadian Championship, Supporters' Shield, US Open Cup.

All-Star Game is in San Jose with Arsenal as the opponent.

CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have World Cup qualifiers so expect callups for that, as well as the Copa America Centenario. There is a small break early-mid June to accommodate Copa America, during which time the Canadian Championship games are held; I'd expect some US Open Cup games to pop up then too because if you can't beat some USL jobbers with your second and third string, well...that's annually about half the league.

Chicks got the Olympics; dudes may or may not.

...

WHAT'S ON TV

Nationally, Fox networks, ESPN networks, Univision networks, and TSN/RDS networks. Don't speak Spanish for Univision? They're doing an SAP English audio option, although you miss a lot of fun of inane Spanish language chatter and player middle names (MORGENSTERN!). How you get those channels is up to you, your cable/satellite/internet provider, and your favorite computer herpes-riddled pirate stream site.

Locally and online, MLS Live, which is traditionally a free preview over opening weekend.

League TV and streaming schedule with instructions on how to use SAP

...

SHOULD I GET MLS LIVE?

If you only care about your team, and you have cable, your team gets a lot of national coverage, and/or your team's local feed is blacked out, no. If you are a giant nerd--which you are, because this is MLS--and you like to watch any old game that's on, you're a cord-cutter, or you're a big fantasy player, yes.

You won't get any Fox, ESPN, Univision games on it, and a few teams still black out games that are covered locally, but otherwise, I'm a fan.

...

SHOULD I GO TO A GAME?

Hell yes.

If you've got an MLS, NASL, NWSL, USL, PDL, NCAA, etc team in your area, get out to a game if at all possible. It ain't gonna be Bayern Munich vs Barcelona, but you'll have a good time and meet fun people. Likewise, if there's folks in your neighborhood who meet up at a bar for viewing parties, drop on by. The best way to experience American soccer is to show up and have a good time.

...

WHAT'S IN THIS THREAD

News, views, discussion, running jokes, and CascadiaChat about MLS. Probably gonna see some NWSL. NASL/USL/PDL, the lower divisions, get their own thread. NCAA soccer chat--Tomorrow's Draft Picks and Waiver Claims Today!--might show up in the fall, might not. Why MLS is/is not bad, why Europe/Latin America is better, why don't we have promotion/relegation, and what expansion means to you are definitely new and exciting topics we're all dying to hear about.

Live weekly or monthly in-game threads for your game day OH loving HELL commentary will be posted separately.

Beyond the introductory fantasy section below, ongoing fantasy threads will be in the Armchair Quarterback.

...

FANTASY

Pat Noonan having nailed his penalty, Jay Heaps lines up to take the las--right, not that fantasy.


B.B. Rodriguez posted:

Welp people. It's that time of year again. Yes, it's Fantasy MLS time.

Here's the relevant info this year:

http://fantasy.mlssoccer.com

League Name: SA Goon MLS 2016
passcode: 6623-1702

The league is Head-to-head with PLAYOFFS! Prizes go to Supporters' Shield, Highest Points Scored in the league, Steve Sampson Cup Champion, Steve Sampson Cup Runner-up, and the Wooden Spoon!




Join now!


...

REFERENCES: MLS AIN'T JUST A LEAGUE, IT'S A DEGREE

Boys
Girls
Schedule, boys
Schedule, girls
Transactions
Du Nord, Soccer Insider, The Equalizer
and everybody's on twitter, instagram, snapchat these days for your social media needs

...


The coolers are packed. The jerseys are bought. The banners are painted. The mohawks are bleached. The chainsaws and muskets are oiled. The cannons are loaded. The stars have aligned. Let us celebrate the opening of the 2016 MLS season with the adding of chocolate to milk and the team intros and running jokes to this thread.

Hoover Dam fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Mar 6, 2016

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Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
gently caress Orlando, now and forever. Yay MLS!

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet

Hoover Dam posted:

And the Philadelphia Union are a team that exists.

[citation needed]

Someone besides me do the Sounders write-up for a change kthxbye

siggy2021
Mar 8, 2010
Tomorrow Columbus will get their revenge.

I took Monday off so I can drink enough to forget last year's finals.

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003








foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)

whypick1 posted:

[citation needed]

Someone besides me do the Sounders write-up for a change kthxbye

Sure, what the hell, I'll give it a go. I'm totally stealing stuff from last year's though.

B.B. Rodriguez
Aug 8, 2005

Bender: "I was God once." God: "Yes, I saw. You were doing well until everyone died."

Tigren summed it up. I'm living in the past.

Through Him, in Him, with Him. In the unity of Il Bruce. All glory and honor is yours Almighty Bruce. Forever and ever.

#racetoseis











Let's not embarrass ourselves you fucks.

Hungryjack
May 9, 2003


David Beckham and an unnamed fan lift the MLS Cup.

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)
Are you spending a rainy weekend away from a tech job drinking an IPA while smugly looking down upon others to buoy your own self-loathing for having sold out to the man? We have a team for you!

Seattle Sounders FC



Inventors of Soccer
Established 2009, but let's pretend it was 1974

Home Stadium: CenturyLink Field "The Clink"



Your stadium may be an SSS and have grass or less lovely turf, but is it in FIFA? No? Heh. Shut up, Vancouver

We also may end up playing Open Cup games at the prestigious Starfire Sports Complex in Tukwila. It's a small stadium on the Sounders training grounds, but it has a beer garden!

Ownership

Adrian Hanauer (majority owner, owned the USL Sounders, used to be GM), Joe Roth (Hollywood producer of classics such as The Jerky Boys Movie), Paul Allen (owns CLink and roughly half of Seattle), Drew Carey (knows the value of the Showcase Showdown)

In addition to the real owners, season ticket holders elect an Alliance Council of fans that is consulted on FO decisions. From people on the Council, it's not been much besides a focus group, and they've not had the control some have wished. Season ticket holders also get to vote on the GM every 4 years.

Coaching Staff



Head Coach Sigi Schmid: Still here, still no MLS Cup despite being the winningest coach in MLS History. Plays relatively conservative, but generally able to grind out wins and find diamonds in the rough. Lets the foot off the pedal too early, depends too heavily on "his" guys, and subs very late. Bitches about the refs. Some fans are frustrated, ready to court Jason Kreis, but Sigi is still here.



General Manager Garth Lagerway: Just came to the Sounders from RSL last year, replacing Adiran Hanauer. Has been part of finding some great guys last year during the dry spell.

Team

Likely Starting XI (Just guessing from the CCL match we just had)
code:
			Stefan Frei
Joevin Jones	Chad Marshall	Roman Torres	Tyrone Mears
	Erik Friberg	Ozzie Alonso	Andreas Ivanschitz
	Clint Dempsey	Nelson Valdez	Jordan Morris
:siren:Sigi Changed the Formation:siren:

We're now rocking a 4-3-3, from our 4-4-2 of past. I've not watched enough to tell if this will really be that much different, but I expect a little bit more crossing into the box from Friberg and Ivanschitz rather than attempting to dribble it in through Dempsey and Martins magic.

Torres is still injured as far as I know, Brad Evans has been filling in for him, which is not ideal. Friberg and Ivanschitz will likely have some competition and rotation, especially when Alonso gets injured. Jones is a complete guess if he'll keep the starting spot.

2016 Schedule

I think you should check out this website. soundersfc.com. Just check it out.

2015 Recap




Seattle started out looking like world beaters, winning and winning, despite Evans being at centerback. And then on June 16th, they played Portland in the Open Cup. It was not pretty. Three red cards, including Dempsey receiving a longer suspension for ripping up a ref's notebook. Martins injured, and out for weeks. More people got injured, some got called up for the Gold Cup. And that explains the summer of our discontent you see up above.

People healed, we picked up some new guys, brought back an old guy, and gritted our teeth through the Evans Centerback Experiment. Seattle still made the playoffs, though that's partially thanks to them increasing the number of playoff spots. We managed to beat LA in the play-in game, who had long been thorns in our side, but then couldn't get it done against Dallas who advanced on penalties, and had to deal with the ignominy of seeing Portland eventually lift the Cup.

Yeah, gently caress last year.

Developmental teams

The Sounders also have a second team that plays in USL, with the creative name of Sounders 2 (or S2). The nifty thing about S2 is that season ticket holders for that team can actually buy into being part owners of the team. There's also an U-23 team that plays in the PDL, and U18, U16, U15, and U14 youth academies.

Notable Transfers In for 2016:
  • Jordan Morris, FW - Was convinced to skip his last year at Stanford and not to go play at Werder Bremen to become the highest paid homegrown in MLS history. Lots of high hopes, is expected to be a major part of the national team in the future.
  • Joevin Jones, DF - Received in a trade from the Chicago Fire, bolstering our back line
  • Michael Farfan, MF - Taken as a free transfer from DC United, will likely increase depth in the midfield.
  • Nathan Sturgis, MF - Played on the Sounders the first two years, bounced around a lot, and is now back in Seattle on a free transfer from Houston. Just here for depth.

Notable Departures
  • Obafemi Martins, FW - Flipped all the way to China :(
  • Chad Barrett, FW - Waived, and then picked up by San Jose, the Sounders graveyard
  • Leo Gozalez, DF - Waived, went home to Costa Rica
  • Troy Perkins, GK - Waived, retired
  • Gonzalo Pineda, MF - Waived, doing commentary for Univsion
  • Thomas, MF - Waived, back to Brazil
  • Lamar Neagle, FW - Traded to DC United for Super Garberbux
  • Marco Pappa, MF - Traded to Colorado for Regular Garberbux
  • Andy Rose, MF- Off to Coventry City on a free transfer

Yep, this is a rebuilding year.

History

The name "Seattle Sounders" was first used as the name for an expansion team for the 1974 season of the original NASL. They made it to the Soccer Bowl twice, but never won. The name was revived for an A-League/USL team in 1994, where they managed to win 4 league championships despite having an orca for their mascot.

In 2007, MLS awarded an expansion slot to Seattle, essentially "promoting" the USL team. Despite including the USL owner, the owners wanted to rename the team to get away from the "minor league" Sounders name. They offered up Seattle Alliance, Seattle Republic, and Seattle FC because someone must have been a huge Force Dork. The fans wrote in Seattle Sounders, and the owners acquiesced, only adding on an FC to the name.

Seattle Sounders FC started playing in MLS in 2009, the invention of soccer. Since then they have done quite well at winning, making the playoffs every year, but not so much at actually winning MLS Cup itself. They've also done quite well at having annoyingly smug fans.

Titles
  • US Open Cup - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014
  • Supporter's Shield - 2014
  • Cascadia Cup - 2011, 2015
  • Heritage Cup - 2010, 2011, 2013, no one really cares
  • MLS Cup - :smithicide:

Notable former Sounders
  • Kasey Keller - He continued this country's tradition of producing awesome and awesomely bald GKs. Currently the color commentator for Sounders TV broadcasts.
  • Marcus Hahnemann - Slipknot fan, bald GK, still probably receiving red cards for yelling at fourth officials
  • DeAndre Yedlin - Highly talented homegrown back and USMNT regular, hopefully getting even better in the Premier League. Went to Tottenham, they loaned him to Sunderland, he finally started a game back in October!
  • Fredy Montero - Went to Portugal, did pretty well, now somehow ended up in China.
  • Servando Carrasco - Only notable for being inside Alex Morgan, possibly right at this very moment.
  • Sebastien Le Toux - USL Sounder, went to Philly long ago, still kicking around, fan favorite
  • Roger Levesque - A goofy USL Sounder with a great mustache who scored a goal against Portland in 48 seconds, earning their eternal ire. Graduated from UW's business school, now has a cushy job in the FO.
  • Steve Zakuani - Sadly never recovered from his injury and retired. Now does studio work for the Sounders TV crew, and has been focused on his charity, which holds a game inviting Seattle soccer alums to play. If you donate enough, you can play too! Yes, really!
  • Michael Tetteh, Peter Vagenas, Mike Seamon - :kiddo:

Rivalries
  • Portland Timbers - Portland are like our younger sibling who refused to sell out and get a real job and acts all smug that we did. Lots of hate between these two fanbases, and it's just going to get worse now that Portland managed to do a thing.
  • Vancouver Whitecaps - The other Cascadian rival. Unlike the bastard hipsters to the south, just some nice Canadians with a poor choice of teams.
  • LA Galaxy - As Portland saw us, we've seen them. They have always been just that little bit more better and more successful and have consistently ruined our postseasons. But last year, Steven Gerrard could not get it done on a rainy Wednesday in Seattle, and we beat them, and it felt great. Then we lost to Dallas
  • San Jose Earthquakes - Nobody cares about the Heritage Cup, but we do care about yelling "gently caress YOU WONDOLOWSKI", just like every team should.

Fans / Media
  • Emerald City Supporters. The biggest SG. Odds are if you don't hate the Sounders because of the team, you hate them because of these guys. The flags will never go down, stop asking. Has goon members, including the current poster.
  • Gorilla FC. The other SG, whom you probably don't hate.
  • Sounder at Heart. The SBNation Sounders blog.

Why you should invest heavily into the Sounders FC:
  • You want easy success cut with more than enough failure and sadness as is required of Seattle sports
  • You want to see the uniforms that Adidas comes up with when high
  • You're eager to hear the latest rhymes from Dempsey in between sweet goals from him
  • You want a defensive midfielder who just doesn't give a gently caress
  • You're annoying and smug, and kind of an rear end in a top hat, but at least not as much as those other guys

Sounders Goons:
  • Xylorjax, the angriest of Sounders
  • whypick1, who I stole most of this intro from
  • SeaTard
  • Qu Appelle
  • Jack2412
  • Was_Taters
  • DR AIDS
  • Tzen
  • tk
  • many more, we are legion

foobardog fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Mar 9, 2016

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)
gently caress, that took more work than I thought.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet

foobardog posted:

Michael Marfan, MF

:laugh:

foobardog posted:

Troy Perkins, GK - Waived, retired

He's our academy's GK coach now.

Fucitol
May 8, 2005

Ceterum autem censeo mundum esse delendam



Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris
gently caress You


Go Crew.

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

It's 2016 OP.

Your Boy Fancy
Feb 7, 2003

by Cyrano4747
Soccer is on tonight.

Hello Towel
Aug 9, 2010

My bold prediction is that the Chicago Fire will not finish last in the East.

But also won't make the playoffs.

For real: I hope Paunovic's fast, pressing style will work during the regular season. It was really fun to watch in the preseason.

It's a big change from...whatever the hell Frank Yallop was doing.

Simone Poodoin
Jun 26, 2003

Che storia figata, ragazzo!



Will there still be a knockout round before the conference semifinal this season? Those were the best matches last time.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




The Union added a whole bunch of dudes who I may or may not know and I hope at least some of them are good

:smith:

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

DOOP posted:

The Union added a whole bunch of dudes who I may or may not know and I hope at least some of them are good

:smith:

I hope you lose all of your games and your stadium burns down.

Your Boy Fancy
Feb 7, 2003

by Cyrano4747

Shrapnig posted:

I hope you lose all of your games and your stadium burns down.

This but every team but mine

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

Your Boy Fancy posted:

This but every team but mine

To be fair if there's any stadium that should burn down it's yours.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
ORLANDO CITY
The Best Second Season Club


The Only MLS Club with a Ballon d'Or Winner


Other notable players:
Team USA member Brek Shea
Rookie of the Year Cyle Larin
USL Pro star Luke Boden
Noted bottler Aurélien Collin
Coach's son Harrison Heath
New addition Antonio Nocerino



STADIUM: Citrus Bowl, Orlando, FL (62,510 capacity)


New for 2016: We have a B team and a Women's team.

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

I'm becom-, I'm becom-,
I'm becoming
Tana in, Tana in my mind.



Don't suck as bad this year, Fire.

trem_two
Oct 22, 2002

it is better if you keep saying I'm fat, as I will continue to score goals
Fun Shoe
Kaka picked up an injury and will miss the first couple of weeks.

Your Boy Fancy
Feb 7, 2003

by Cyrano4747

Shrapnig posted:

To be fair if there's any stadium that should burn down it's yours.

That would require RFK to be flammable. You know it's asbestos and hate that holds us together.

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003
Stephen Goff's annual sitdown with Bruce Arena was just published and it's as fun as ever. Some highlights:


quote:

What do you think of promotion and relegation here?

“Impossible.”

Why?

“Because of all the resources that have been dedicated to build this league by ownership. You are going to tell someone: ‘Goodbye?’ You’re going to tell Phil Anschutz, who has spent millions and millions building this league, that next year he may be playing in the NASL because his team had a bad year?”

Maybe someday, if all the leagues evolve …

“You’re in a dream world.”

quote:

Did someone accuse you of cheating?

“I’m sure they have.”

There is a perception out there …

“Yeah, we cheat all the time. We’re the last team in the league that didn’t get away with anything.”

What do you think of that perception …

“It’s stupidity and jealousy.”

quote:

Can you name all the different mechanisms in MLS in which clubs can acquire players?

“Yeah.”

Okay, name them.

“Is this supposed to be funny?”

No. I don’t do funny. It’s just that there are a lot of them …

“I just did a report on that. Can I read the report on my computer?”

Sure …

“I can tell you without looking at it, but I just did this report. Hold on … I did this off the top of my head, so maybe you think I am going to be wrong, but what I have is: designated player, discovery process, MLS trades, MLS SuperDraft, allocation process. Plus waivers, re-entry, free agency.”

You forgot homegrown!

“I guess I should put that on. But we’re not acquiring them; they’re our players through the academy system.”

camoseven
Dec 30, 2005

RODOLPHONE RINGIN'
I have arrived at Toyota Park. My god, this really is the middle of nowhere. Go Fire!

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


Tigren posted:

Stephen Goff's annual sitdown with Bruce Arena was just published and it's as fun as ever. Some highlights:

are people required to have the stupidest loving reasons to oppose promotion/relegation? phil anschutz is a nightmare human being, no one cares about his millions.

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003

be nice wicka posted:

are people required to have the stupidest loving reasons to oppose promotion/relegation? phil anschutz is a nightmare human being, no one cares about his millions.

I don't believe it's a requirement wicka.

However, I do believe MLS is still in love with and indebted to Phil Anshutz. He and the Kraft family will run this league until the day it dies.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

be nice wicka posted:

are people required to have the stupidest loving reasons to oppose promotion/relegation? phil anschutz is a nightmare human being, no one cares about his millions.

:siren: WARNING: PRO/REL CHAT IN THIS POST :siren:

The way I see it, the only chance promotion and relegation would work in the US and Canada is for MLS to be an umbrella organization, like the USL was for a while in the minor leagues. For THAT to happen, there would need to be, say, 36 teams in MLS before a split could occur. It's not just out of the owners' interests - the average NASL club's attendance is less than half of the average MLS club's. Could you imagine Edmonton's ~3,000 people helping soccer's standing in American (and Canadian) culture?

Tigren
Oct 3, 2003

CaptainYesterday posted:

:siren: WARNING: PRO/REL CHAT IN THIS POST :siren:

The way I see it, the only chance promotion and relegation would work in the US and Canada is for MLS to be an umbrella organization, like the USL was for a while in the minor leagues. For THAT to happen, there would need to be, say, 36 teams in MLS before a split could occur. It's not just out of the owners' interests - the average NASL club's attendance is less than half of the average MLS club's. Could you imagine Edmonton's ~3,000 people helping soccer's standing in American (and Canadian) culture?

Could you imagine Philadelphia Union or Chicago Fire helping soccer's standing in American culture?

porkface
Dec 29, 2000

Your Boy Fancy posted:

This but every team but mine

Fancy in 2017

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
turn left thread nooooooooooh thank gently caress someone posted the March GDT.

Fucitol
May 8, 2005

Ceterum autem censeo mundum esse delendam



Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris

Tigren posted:

Could you imagine Philadelphia Union or Chicago Fire helping soccer's standing in American culture?

are you just making up soccer teams wholesale right now, or...

?

Seltzer
Oct 11, 2012

Ask me about Game Pass: the Best Deal in Gaming!

Poonior Toilett
Aug 21, 2004

m'lady

It's the first page and you tards have already brought up pro/rel

wicka
Jun 28, 2007


CaptainYesterday posted:

:siren: WARNING: PRO/REL CHAT IN THIS POST :siren:

The way I see it, the only chance promotion and relegation would work in the US and Canada is for MLS to be an umbrella organization, like the USL was for a while in the minor leagues. For THAT to happen, there would need to be, say, 36 teams in MLS before a split could occur. It's not just out of the owners' interests - the average NASL club's attendance is less than half of the average MLS club's. Could you imagine Edmonton's ~3,000 people helping soccer's standing in American (and Canadian) culture?

all of which are great points, it's by no means a guaranteed thing that promotion/relegation should happen or could even work here, but it'd be great if MLS would allow a serious discussion about it (and many other league changes/reforms) instead of garber just farting out of his mouth about the NFL every time it's mentioned.

Fucitol
May 8, 2005

Ceterum autem censeo mundum esse delendam



Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris
i'm going to promote the idea of suicide so certain people can relegate themselves to hell


vvvvvv rude

Fucitol fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 6, 2016

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

Fucitol posted:

i'm going to promote the idea of suicide so certain people can relegate themselves to hell

You should lead by example.

Pinwiz11
Jan 26, 2009

I'm becom-, I'm becom-,
I'm becoming
Tana in, Tana in my mind.



Welcome back, MLS.

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Seltzer
Oct 11, 2012

Ask me about Game Pass: the Best Deal in Gaming!

Pinwiz11 posted:

Welcome back, MLS.



They didn't use oil on Villa and Pirlo

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