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We'll never be ready. We've spent a long time evolving into violent psychotic apes and it's going to take even longer to evolve out of it.rudatron posted:Delta V change Go enter your PIN number into the ATM machine 
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Mar 19, 2016 22:58
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What about when we first contact ATLiens?
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Mar 19, 2016 23:47
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Skeleton Ape posted:We'll never be ready. We've spent a long time evolving into violent psychotic apes and it's going to take even longer to evolve out of it. This assumes that being violent, psychotic apes isn't going to be incredibly useful when we meet intelligent extraterrestrial life. This assumption is wrong.
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Mar 20, 2016 01:41
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Who What Now posted:So? His claims were at least made using observable evidence and not merely a random feeling they once had. What's your basis for belief that there is an interstellar traveling intelligent race out there? It's not super crazy to theorize that any advanced space-faring intelligent civilizations have cooperated long enough, and have had such an enormous headstart to develop their technologies, that whatever forms of observation and displays of their prowess to humanity would be viewed as magic; maybe some crazy form of cloaking tech that none of our current tools can detect. For all we know, even our basis for far future science fiction (dyson spheres n' poo poo) could be compared to single-celled simplicity to any kind of greater intelligences. Like, hypothetically, if humans never evolved in their warlike greedy state, and progressed only for the purpose of scientific advancement and peaceful curiosity. We can never predict what we would become if we give this kind of development thousands, millions, or even billions of years of unstopping progression. The universe is large enough that the mathematical likeliness still produce promising numbers for life out there, judging from our current understandings to the requirements for starting biological evolution.
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Mar 20, 2016 02:07
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It actually is kind of assholish to take someone's honest and genuine desire to speculate on a subject and just say "Well it wouldn't happen anyway, so don't think about it." It's like the response of "What did God do before making the universe? Making Hell for those who asked such questions." It's a legitimate and interesting topic to speculate about, and we should at least respect the motivation behind it enough to entertain the notions, at least for a while.  As for what I think would happen? Well, day one of First Contact would be the most astonishing, earthshattering revelation in human history. It would be bigger than 9/11 -- literally every news outlet and social media platform would be talking about it non-stop. I mean, think about it, it's actual proof of the existence of intellects greater than man's, capable of technological miracles like interstellar travel. The effect would be comparable to some kind of global religious event or awakening, as humans realized that it was not only not alone in the universe, but also vastly inferior to whatever is out there. In the coming weeks, there would be an enormous, global discussion about the ramifications of this, how to respond, etc. Many of the current preoccupations of humanity might cease or be put on a backburner as the human race attempts to reconcile with the existence of these alien visitors. There would be a huge resurgence in religiosity, extremism of all sorts, cults forming, and millenarian groups from the various Abrahamic religions claiming that it's the end times. In a way, it would be -- the end of the current human epoch and the beginning of another. There would probably be mass suicides, religious orgies, throngs of people flocking to public squares to watch the alien visitors broadcast on big screens. The gist of it is that the first few weeks post Contact would probably be a major disruption to our currently-known way of life, possibly resulting in an economic collapse. Then there would be a tremendous beeline to be first to interact with the visitors. It'd be like dropping a big rock in a small puddle. Beyond that, I'm not really sure.
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Mar 20, 2016 15:48
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We would be so screwed.
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Mar 20, 2016 16:50
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It would be cool until we found out they didn't believe in God. Then we'd try to kill them.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:05
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But seriously, I think the outcone of first contact is highly dependant upon how tasty we find them and how tasty they find us.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:15
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DrSunshine posted:In the coming weeks, there would be an enormous, global discussion about the ramifications of this, how to respond, etc. Many of the current preoccupations of humanity might cease or be put on a backburner as the human race attempts to reconcile with the existence of these alien visitors. There would be a huge resurgence in religiosity, extremism of all sorts, cults forming, and millenarian groups from the various Abrahamic religions claiming that it's the end times. In a way, it would be -- the end of the current human epoch and the beginning of another. There would probably be mass suicides, religious orgies, throngs of people flocking to public squares to watch the alien visitors broadcast on big screens. that's silly. Humans aren't going to go lemmings the moment aliens appear. gently caress, people didn't commit mass suicides in the loving london bombings, I think they can handle the existence of extraterrestrial life. Massive social disruption, but people gotta eat and even the most interesting thing in creation isn't gonna stop people from going to work. Social upheaval is gonna require direct interference from the aliens, be it showing a government to be impotent, fundamentally altering the means of production with new tech, or forcible, rapid integration into Earth. But culture as a whole is gonna have a revolution, that I agree with.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:19
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A big flaming stink posted:that's silly.
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Mar 20, 2016 18:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The London bombings weren't anything special, nothing about them would make people truly question our existence (other than the ones directly affected perhaps). The arrival of extraterrestrials on the other hand would mean humanity was no longer at the top of the food chain so to speak, overturning a tens of thousands of years old status quo. On top of that you of course have the fact that it would result in a major overturning of traditional religious thought in most of the world, which definitely opens up for all kinds of weird cults, including ones that encourage mass suicides. I mean, it's not like an alien worshiping cult ending in mass suicide is unheard of, imagine what could happen if you suddenly had actual aliens around. what if they were a buncha really, really, really tasty spacecows? could we eat them?
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Mar 20, 2016 18:57
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Well just think about the stock markets and how they might react to news of alien first contact. Some industries I could think of that would immediately be affected and have to reassess everything would be the insurance industry. Premiums and factors going into "human survival" would have to be fundamentally readjusted to include the possibility of disruptions due to alien technology being integrated, human mass responses to alien culture and the existence of superintelligent, cosmic beings, and global uncertainty and unrest. Insurance already considers global climate change in its calculations -- specifically the reinsurance business -- so it's not unlikely to think that the insurance industry could suffer major disruptions during its reassessment period. The main issue being uncertainty. Investors might want to pull out of most of their equity and pour money into valuables and commodities due to uncertainties over the stability of world governments and the business world due to the sudden and unprecedented appearance of alien powers. That sort of massive selloff alone could cause the global financial markets to spiral out of control in the wake of first contact.
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Mar 20, 2016 19:19
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DrSunshine posted:The main issue being uncertainty. Investors might want to pull out of most of their equity and pour money into valuables and commodities due to uncertainties over the stability of world governments and the business world due to the sudden and unprecedented appearance of alien powers. That sort of massive selloff alone could cause the global financial markets to spiral out of control in the wake of first contact. My Imaginary GF posted:what if they were a buncha really, really, really tasty spacecows?
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Mar 20, 2016 19:57
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I'm imagining a race of space cows which eating causes humans to regain their youth. God what poor, poor species. Their first wave gonna be gobbled all up and turned into factories. Whatever happens between the first wave and the second, humanity gonna have a whole lotta explaining to do
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Mar 20, 2016 21:11
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My Imaginary GF posted:I'm imagining a race of space cows which eating causes humans to regain their youth. That's how they'll transplant their own sentience into our forms. "Eat of me."
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Mar 20, 2016 22:03
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SedanChair posted:That's how they'll transplant their own sentience into our forms. "Eat of me."
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Mar 20, 2016 22:05
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SedanChair posted:That's how they'll transplant their own sentience into our forms. "Eat of me." We cannot allow these drat aliens to win the consumption race! We are Americans! By god, we will eat of them until there are no more of them.
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Mar 20, 2016 22:07
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Imagine they land in Syria.
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Mar 20, 2016 22:55
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Kurtofan posted:Imagine they land in Syria. Galaxy-spanning interstellar empire touches down in the midst of Syrian Civil War Ignominiously withdraws after 3 year sectarian insurgency having failed to accomplish anything Chief Commandant Cil'thrict reassures media that nation-building will continue, as Zorblaxian Special Forces will remain to train local government forces Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Mar 20, 2016 |
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Mar 20, 2016 22:59
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Unless they're able to figure out how to communicate with us, the contact will be silent. We're not even able to figure out how to converse with the other mammals on this planet, despite sharing the same brain layouts. We'd almost certainly be mutually indigestible. Their microbes might pollute Earth, though, and could dominate certain niches. We'd be a curiosity, like discovering a new species of ant in the rainforest. We don't have anything to offer except study.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:22
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Mofabio posted:Unless they're able to figure out how to communicate with us, the contact will be silent. We're not even able to figure out how to converse with the other mammals on this planet, despite sharing the same brain layouts. I don't see how you can link conversing with another sentient life form and talking with monkeys.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:25
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Also I just remembered we can totally talk with monkeys, like what about that sign language gorilla?
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Mar 20, 2016 23:25
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You'd likely get space e-coli if you eat them. You'll puke your pelvis bone out.
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Mar 21, 2016 00:45
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A number of people believe any appearance of extraterrestrials is actually a trick by Satan and/or the Antichrist to deceive us.
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Mar 21, 2016 00:53
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Mofabio posted:Unless they're able to figure out how to communicate with us, the contact will be silent. We're not even able to figure out how to converse with the other mammals on this planet, despite sharing the same brain layouts. Are you unaware that dogs exist?
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Mar 21, 2016 00:54
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Who What Now posted:Are you unaware that dogs exist? Unless first contact is between a domesticated dog, and a nut who believes dogs carry on in conversation, then first contact will be quiet. Sorry!
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Mar 21, 2016 01:25
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Mofabio posted:Unless first contact is between a domesticated dog, and a nut who believes dogs carry on in conversation, then first contact will be quiet. Sorry! How do you define a "conversation"? If my dog gets my attention, I ask her if she needs to go out, and she barks and runs to the door to wait for me, then we have undeniably communicated in a back and forth manner. Does only verbal English count? That's needlessly anthropocentric, don't you think?
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Mar 21, 2016 01:42
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Who What Now posted:How do you define a "conversation"? If my dog gets my attention, I ask her if she needs to go out, and she barks and runs to the door to wait for me, then we have undeniably communicated in a back and forth manner. Does only verbal English count? That's needlessly anthropocentric, don't you think? I mean, sure. I just think dog-level communication would be an extremely disappointing first contact, and also way better than we're likely to get. I'm basing that off of our inability to communicate with the vast majority of species on earth, despite intra-species communication being ubiquitous, despite our efforts, despite sharing communication hardware. Until we can hold court with cetaceans, I highly doubt we'll make headway with aliens. Have you read Ted Chiang's Story of Your Life?
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Mar 21, 2016 04:00
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Mofabio posted:I mean, sure. I just think dog-level communication would be an extremely disappointing first contact, and also way better than we're likely to get. Do you not think that interstellar traveling aliens will be just a wee bit smarter than your average Pomeranian? That they might maybe be just a smidgen more intelligent than a Yorkie, perhaps? You're talking as if our inability to communicate with the other species on this planet as somehow a failing of humanity, that we just aren't smart enough to figure out how to talk with the great dolphin philosophers of the deep. But, you know that the Hitchhiker's Guides are works of fiction and not documentaries, right? They can't actually jump out of the water and fly off into space when the Vogons come, that's not a thing. The issue isn't that we aren't smart enough, it's that dolphins brains literally aren't evolved to process communication the same way that we do. Other animals are too "dumb" to be capable of talking on our level, not the other way around.
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Mar 21, 2016 04:38
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If the aliens are social creatures that communicate with a language more extensive than 'bark bark', communication will be possible fairly easily. How exactly an alien could get here without having either of those qualities is an interesting question, but one I don't think anyone is equipped to answer.
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Mar 21, 2016 05:31
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Who What Now posted:Other animals are too "dumb" to be capable of talking on our level, not the other way around. I do think aliens, by virtue of their visit, would be smarter than dolphins and dogs. However, our superior intelligence has not allowed us to communicate with either species at the level of a native speaker. Similarly, wolves are smarter than prairie dogs. Yet, as far as we can tell, both species are mutually unintelligible. Prairie dogs, which have one of the most extensive vocabularies in the animal kingdom, are totally unintelligible to more intelligent species. Are horses smarter than cows? Is the smarter of the two able to communicate with the dumber? We're much smarter than ants, and we know that they have extensive communication capabilities, but we're far from fluent in ant. My point is, intelligence hasn't seemed to helped much in inter-species communication. And this is considering species with similar evolutionary backgrounds and communication hardware. Maybe we'll be figured out, but I think you're overestimating the comprehensibility of communication between species.
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Mar 21, 2016 05:36
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It's stupidly poetic but it's very likely they'd be able to communicate with us by the time they get here, I mean, unlike dogs or cetaceans we have almost a hundred years of radio communications bouncing off into space. Considering we're also very likely to be the dogs in this metaphor, it should be easier for them to learn how to communicate to us rather than the other way around.
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Mar 21, 2016 05:53
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fnox posted:It's stupidly poetic but it's very likely they'd be able to communicate with us by the time they get here, I mean, unlike dogs or cetaceans we have almost a hundred years of radio communications bouncing off into space. Considering we're also very likely to be the dogs in this metaphor, it should be easier for them to learn how to communicate to us rather than the other way around. What if they just communicate once, as if they were discovered by an indisputable lighthouse operating hundreds of thousands of lightyears away? If we have first contact, and that contact is a message older than our species, what then?
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Mar 21, 2016 06:42
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fnox posted:It's stupidly poetic but it's very likely they'd be able to communicate with us by the time they get here, I mean, unlike dogs or cetaceans we have almost a hundred years of radio communications bouncing off into space. Considering we're also very likely to be the dogs in this metaphor, it should be easier for them to learn how to communicate to us rather than the other way around. Although depending on how fast they were traveling there might have been a ton of doppler shift on all our radio and they'll be surprised how low our voices are.
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Mar 21, 2016 07:23
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Mofabio posted:I do think aliens, by virtue of their visit, would be smarter than dolphins and dogs. However, our superior intelligence has not allowed us to communicate with either species at the level of a native speaker. fnox posted:It's stupidly poetic but it's very likely they'd be able to communicate with us by the time they get here, I mean, unlike dogs or cetaceans we have almost a hundred years of radio communications bouncing off into space. Considering we're also very likely to be the dogs in this metaphor, it should be easier for them to learn how to communicate to us rather than the other way around.
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Mar 21, 2016 08:04
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I'm going to guess Contact got it right with mathematical, chemical, or physical constants serving as common concepts for communication. It depends on the type of alien though, if they're space-folding whales or clouds of energy then it'd probably more difficult. If aliens show up in a ship and purposefully reveal themselves they probably want to communicate and since they managed to build a space ship they're probably sentient or a hive mind with a high level of sentience. There's plenty of arguments to be had over what sentience is but ants are basically little machines and I don't care to ask my coffee maker any questions. As for dolphins, while picking up and playing with a sponge is neat, I don't think they've made any breakthroughs in the field of hybrid rocketry lately so I don't see them offering any groundbreaking insights into much beyond balancing a ball on their nose in exchange for a fish. Sight and audio perception are huge evolutionary advantages so while aliens might not possess either, I'd wager that they'd possess at least one. Light is pretty ubiquitous in the universe and illumination is pretty helpful in performing complex tasks like building an interstellar vessel.
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Mar 21, 2016 09:01
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Potential BFF posted:Sight and audio perception are huge evolutionary advantages so while aliens might not possess either, I'd wager that they'd possess at least one. Light is pretty ubiquitous in the universe and illumination is pretty helpful in performing complex tasks like building an interstellar vessel.
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Mar 21, 2016 09:06
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Bip Roberts posted:Although depending on how fast they were traveling there might have been a ton of doppler shift on all our radio and they'll be surprised how low our voices are. I feel pretty confident that aliens capable of interstellar travel have probably discovered the Doppler effect. Mofabio posted:I do think aliens, by virtue of their visit, would be smarter than dolphins and dogs. However, our superior intelligence has not allowed us to communicate with either species at the level of a native speaker. I'm not sure why you think our lack of ability to communicate with ants whose intelligence level barely qualifies as sentient is a good reflection of our ability to communicate with an advanced civilization with written language. We can't communicate with infants either.
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Mar 21, 2016 13:18
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Thanks to my extensive XCOM training the very first thing I will do when I see an alien is throw a frag grenade.
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Mar 21, 2016 13:57
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RBA Starblade posted:Thanks to my extensive XCOM training the very first thing I will do when I see an alien is throw a frag grenade. But if you destroy the cover they were behind you'll leave yourself dangerously exposed when you go to press forward!
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Mar 21, 2016 14:31
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