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Marvel is All New and also All Different in 2016. Everything got put back together after SECRET WARS and is pretty much like it was before SECRET WARS except some people from other universes are in the "main" (no longer designated 616 according to Tom Brevoort) Marvel Universe. There is also still a multiverse, created by the Future Foundation off in otherspace. Wondering what's being published right now? PART ONE: MARVEL'S THE AVENGERS There are a lot of Avengers books, seeing as it is a very popular film franchise. The Avengers will all be knee-deep in CIVIL WAR 2, coming this summer. There should probably be a separate thread for that. There is currently a STANDOFF mini-event going on. There are essentially five Avengers ongoings:  All-New All-Different Avengers (Mark Waid & Adam Kubert/Mahmud Asrar): The most traditional "Avengers" crew starring Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Vision, Nova, Ms. Marvel, and (Miles Morales) Spider-Man. They are based out of New York and fight Avengers foes like Kang.  New Avengers (Al Ewing & Gerardo Sandoval): The New Avengers are funded by Sunspot and based out of AIM Island, a status quo spinning out of Hickman's uber-Avengers run. The team consists of Sunspot, Hulkling, Wiccan, Squirrel Girl, Pod, Songbird, and secret SHIELD mole Hawkeye who admitted to the team he was a mole in his first panel. The primary antagonist of the series is Ultimate Reed Richards, aka The Maker.  Uncanny Avengers (Gerry Duggan & Ryan Stegman): Deadpool is now an incredibly popular and wealthy celebrity within the fictive world, and has launched his own Avengers (aka The Unity Avengers) to atone for past sins. He leads the team alongside Spider-Man, Human Torch, Steve Rogers, Rogue, Quicksilver, Doctor Voodoo, Synapse, and sometimes Cable. Their primary goal is to track down the clone of the Red Skull who stole Professor Xavier's brain from Rick Remender's Uncanny Avengers/AXIS storyline.  A-Force (Kelly Thompson & Ben Caldwell): A mysterious person named Singularity was in the Secret Wars A-Force book, and has arrived in the current MU looking for her friends (Medusa, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Nico Minoru, Dazzler) from Battleworld, except none of them remember her or being friends with each other because of SECRET WARS. They're learning to become a team.  Ultimates (Al Ewing & Kenneth Rocafort): Closer in spirit to Fantastic Four than Avengers, and no direct connection to the Ultimate Universe. A team of scientists and cosmic powers (Blue Marvel, Black Panther, Monica Rambeau, Miss America Chavez, Captain Marvel) who are trying to do Big Things like "fix" Galactus and explore the outer reaches of the new multiverse. PART TWO: LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE AVENGERS RIGHT NOW HAVE THEIR OWN BOOKS Most of these are standalone books, outside of some cross-book references writers (Ewing, Duggan) are making between their own books.  Invincible Iron Man (Brian Michael Bendis & David Marquez): Tony Stark is trying to get his life together after [insert events of the past ten years], featuring Mary Jane Watson and a reformed (and no longer disfigured) Doctor Doom as his supporting cast.  International Iron Man (Brian Michael Bendis & Alex Maleev): A second Iron Man ongoing that just started, seems like it will be focusing on Iron Man's past while showing his efforts to deal with the revelation from Kieron Gillen's run that Tony is adopted. Most of the first issue took place "twenty years ago" but still has references to smartphones and "googling" people, leading some to believe this is a very subtle way of continuing Bendis's haphazard "time is broken" runner of recent years.  Captain America: Sam Wilson (Nick Spencer & Daniel Acuna/Angel Unzueta): A continuation of Spencer's run pre-SW, Sam WIlson is still Captain America, but he's on the outs with Steve Rogers and SHIELD. He's still friends with Misty Knight, D-Man, and Redwing (who is a vampire bird now) and also has found a new Falcon who is an illegal immigrant experimented on by the evil newly reformed corporate consulting group The Serpent Society who murder under-performing executives because Political Commentary.  The Mighty Thor (Jason Aaron & Russell Dauterman): A direct continuation of Aaron's long Thor run. Readers now know that Jane Foster is the new Thor, nobody in the book knows it yet, Loki is back as a supporting cast member.  Captain Marvel (Tara Butters/Michele Fazekas & Kris Anka): In addition to being part of A-Force and the Ultimates, Carol Danvers is also now the leader of Alpha Flight! Alpha Flight is now in outer space! It makes sense, "flight" is right there in the name. Puck and Sasquatch and them are still in Alpha Flight and comprise the supporting cast.  Deadpool (Gerry Duggan & Lots of Different People): A direct continuation of Duggan's last Deadpool run, he's used his newfound fame and fortune to hire a bunch of (hypothetically) familiar faces like Solo, Madcap, Terror Inc, Stingray, Foolkiller, and Slapstick to be surrogate Deadpools. Probably a bit much to jump into if you hadn't read any of Duggan's previous Deadpool run, but it's all worth reading.  Ms. Marvel (G. Willow Wilson & Adrian Alphona/Takeshi Miyazawa): Also a direct continuation of pre-SW Ms. Marvel. She's still in Jersey City, still excited to meet other superheroes, and facing the sinister forces of gentrification and family weddings.  Nova (Sean Ryan & Cory Smith/RB SIlva): Nova's dad is back. I don't know much else about this book.  Vision (Tom King & Gabriel Hernandez Walla): Basically a suburban horror story starring the Vision (who has excised his emotions or his memory or his emotions attached to his memory depending on which book you read) so he doesn't bear a great deal of resemblance to The Vision, but nevertheless is a compelling fan favorite title. Will be ending after twelve issues because Tom King signed a DC exclusive.  All-New Hawkeye (Jeff Lemire & Ramon Perez/Jeff Lemire): Still starring both Clint Barton and Kate Bishop, the first arc is jumping back and forth between the present day, Clint and Kate's childhoods, and decades into the future. More somber and reflective than Fraction's Hawkguy. Continued Next Post!
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Mar 21, 2016 05:25
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PART THREE: PEOPLE WHO ARE TRADITIONAL/MOVIE AVENGERS BUT NOT IN THE CURRENT AVENGERS BOOKS Unless otherwise noted, all of these are standalones so far.  Black Widow (Mark Waid & Chris Samnee): The same creative team that just wrapped up Daredevil jumps over here and based on the first issue (essentially a 20 page chase scene) is going to ratchet up the action level for this series.  Scarlet Witch (James Robinson & They Can't Decide): Wanda decides to take some "me" time in a book inspired by the tone of Fraction/Aja's Hawkeye. Something is wrong with witchcraft (see: Doctor Strange) and Wanda is travelling the globe trying to fix it.  Astonishing Ant-Man (Nick Spencer & Mark Brooks): A direct continuation of pre-SW Ant-Man. He's still in Florida trying to run a security company and not getting along with his ex-wife and hanging out with Grizzly and sassy gay robot Machinesmith, but now it turns out he's in jail and also punched Paul Scheer for some reason. The book may eventually reveal why he is in jail at the start of the first issue, but so far nothing.  The Totally Awesome Hulk (Greg Pak and Amadeus Cho): Amadeus Cho is now the Hulk. He flies around in a food truck with his sister trying to stop monsters. The whys and wherefores of how this came to be and where Bruce Banner is are slowly being doled out.  Hercules (Dan Abnett & Luke Ross): Someone is killing the Old Gods, Hercules is living in Brooklyn trying to figure out why. Ending with Issue 6 but getting replaced with a Civil War II tie-in mini  Agents of SHIELD (Marc Guggenheim & Various): The cast of the TV show, focusing on Coulson. The first arc is about Coulson pulling a Batman from Tower of Babel and dreaming (literally) dreaming of ways to take down superheroes, and a psychic girlfriend stealing his dreams. PART FOUR: THE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY IS ALSO A POPULAR MOVIE  Guardians of the Galaxy (Brian Michael Bendis & Valero Schitti): A direct continuation of the previous run, Kitty Pryde is the new Starlord and the Thing has joined the team.  Starlord (Sam Humphries & Javier Garron): Mostly focusing on Starlord's formative years and trying to piece together a coherent narrative from the like, six different Starlord backstories scattered across comics and the film. Unknown fate after Humphries signed a DC exclusive.  Rocket Raccoon & Groot (Skottie Young & Felipe Andrae): Essentially a buddy comedy from the writer of the pre-SW Rocket Raccoon series.  Drax: (CM Punk & Cullen Bunn & Scott Hepburn): Drax gets bored hanging out with his team and goes off to try to kill Thanos, instead getting mixed up with some sort of Bloodsport/UFC plotline in space involving Terrax and Fin Fang Foom.  Guardians of Infinity (Dan Abnett & Carlo Barberi): A team of "Guardians" from the year 3000 run into a group from the year 20(16) and also from the year 1000. I only read the back-up to the first issue which was about Ben Grimm delivering Dusty Rhodes's "Hard Times" speech.  Venom: Spaceknight (Robbie Thompson and Ariel Olivetti): GoTG member Venom (Flash Thompson) is out in space, going to space-AA meetings, saving planets, and meeting owl ladies with rude rear end mammalian titties. That's all I remember from the first two issues.  Angela: Queen of Hel (Marguerite Bennet & Stephanie Hans): A direct continuation of the pre-SW book, haven't read it but it sounds like she's the Queen of Hel. Ending at Issue 7 Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 05:27
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PART FIVE: THESE PEOPLE ARE ALSO MARVEL SUPERHEROES Daredevil (Charles Soule & Ron Garney): Daredevil is back in New York, and his identity is secret through methods not yet revealed. He works as a prosecutor, and has taken on an apprentice.  Doctor Strange (Jason Aaron & Chris Bachalo): Doctor Strange is facing THE EMPIRIKUL, a villain who aims to destroy all magic. This is pretty much a recreation of the first year of his Thor run, where a villain aimed to destroy all gods. Your patience for the quirks of Aaron and Bachalo (both very talented, both full of tics) will probably dictate how much you love this book.  Power Man & Iron Fist (David Walker & Sanford Greene): They're not a team again, except they are a team again! The first couple of issues have leaned a little hard on the "ha ha, mismatched friends annoy each other in a bromance/frenemies mashup" but the art is great and Walker is going deep to try to revamp 'classic' villains like Black Mariah, Cockroach Hamilton, and the Headmen.  Silver Surfer (Dan Slott & Mike Allred): A direct continuation of the pre-SW book by the same team. Rhyno does not need to tell you why he does not like it.  Howard the Duck (Chip Zdarsky & Joe Quinones)Also a direct continuation of the previous book by the same team. They still haven't fully resolved him getting a new hat. UPDATE: He did get a new hat.  The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (Ryan North & Erica Henderson): DIrect... previous... same team. Crossing over with Howard the Duck next month.  Weirdworld (Sam Humphries & Mike Del Mundo): NOT a direct continuation, but the same setting as the Secret Wars Weirdworld, with the same sweet art from del Mundo and the same setting, but all new protagonists. Should be selling better, and its fate is unknown since Humphries is getting Rebirthed at DC.  Squadron Supreme (James Robinson & Leonard Kirk): The legacy of a bunch of different Squadrons Supremes gets even more confusing in this very James Robinson-y legacy-lovin' book. A bunch of lone survivors from pre-SW worlds find themselves in the main universe, intent on getting revenge against the Illuminati/Cabal members who blew up their old Earths. They decapitate Namor (and less noted, teleport Atlantis to the desert and blow it up, presumably killing millions) to let everyone know They Mean Business, then immediately get sidetracked by going to Weirdworld and fighting a reborn DOCTOR DRUID MAKING EXPLICIT REFERENCE TO GETTING KILLED, CRAMMED INTO A DUMPSTER AND LIT ON FIRE BY WARREN ELLIS and doing stuff that sort of sidelines the book's reason for existence after like two issues.  Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (Amy Reeder/Brandon Montclare & Natacha Bustos): Moon Girl is a smart young woman in contemporary New York who ends up bringing Devil DInosaur to the present day and befriending him. Probably not long for the world, saleswise.  Starbrand & Nightmask (Greg Weisman & Dominke Stanton: The former New Universe concepts that Hickman brought in for his Avengers run go to college! I have not read any of this. Probably not long for the world, saleswise.  Illuminati (Josh Williamson & Shawn Crystal): The Hood brings together a group of reluctant supervillains (Titania, Thunderball, Mad Thinker, Enchantress, Black Ant) for mysterious reasons. Kind of a reverse Thunderbolts, I guess?  Howling Commandos of SHIELD (Frank Barbiere & Bren Schoonover): The unkillable LMD of Dum Dum Duggan leads a team of Mummies and Wolfmans and Draculas for SHIELD. Canceled after six issues.  Red Wolf (Nathan Edmondson & Dalibor Talajic): Sherrif Red Wolf from the SW mini-series 1872 is teleported to the modern day, is involved with crimefighting and also being lost in time and stuff. Possibly already canceled.  Black Knight (Frank Tieri & Luca Pizzari): Not even a love of Black Knight from Stern-era Avengers could get me to pick up a Frank "Fuckin" Tieri book. A common sentiment apparently, as this was canceled after five issues.  Contest of Champions (Al Ewing & Paco Medina): A weird mishmash of follow-ups to Secret Wars, a free-to-play mobile game of the same name, movie tie-ins, and deep-diving into forgotten 1990s characters that still works somehow. The Maestro and The Collector have teams of heroes from across the multiverse, fighting to the death for a magic globe. Again, this actually works as a book.  Mockingbird (Chelsea Cain & Kate Niemczyk): Mockingbird is sometimes an Avenger and sometimes a SHIELD agent and maybe is developing superpowers? Written by one of Chuck Palahniuk's friends who appears in the Fight Club 2 comic and once that connection was made in my head I have a hard time separating the two books.  Patsy Walker aka Hellcat (Kate Leth & Britteny Williams): Patsy Walker is a young woman in Brooklyn, doing wacky stuff with her wacky friends. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 05:32
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PART SIX: SPIDER-MAN HAS LOTS OF SPIDER-MANS, SOME OF THEM ARE WOMEN, THEY ALSO HAVE THEIR OWN THREAD Very brief here, since there really is a separate thread. Amazing Spider-Man (Dan Slott & Various): Peter Parker is a billionaire globetrotting playboy. He's fighting ZODIAC (not Ted Cruz), opinions differ wildly on this book. Spidey (Robbie Thompson & Nick Bradshaw): Hypothetically fully-in-continuity stories of a young Peter Parker in high school, fighting his classic villains. Spider-Man/Deadpool (Joe Kelly & Ed McGuinness: Spider-Man and Deadpool bond while Deadpool considers accepting a contract to murder Peter Parker, billionaire globetrotting playboy who allegedly has done some terrible business-things. Web Warriors (Mike Costa & David Baldeon): All your favorite (okay, some of your favorite) Spider-Mans and Spider-Womans do a cross-dimensional team-up. Some sort of follow-up to Spiderverse (the mainline MU event) and Spiderverse (the Secret Wars book) from last year. Spider-Man (Brian Michael Bendis & Sara Pichelli): Miles gave Molecule Man a hamburger so not only did he and all his friends get spared the death of the Ultimate Universe, he also got his mom back from the dead. More or less a direct continuation of the previous run. Spider-Man 2099 (Peter David & Will Sliney): Honestly I haven't read an issue of this or the previous run, but given that it's Peter David I assume that it all ties together going back to the 1992 red holofoil #1. Carnage (Gerry Conway & Mike Perkins): Not an attempt to rehabilitate Carnage, more a book where he is the Monster and a military group (ft. John Jameson and Eddie Brock) are trying to keep him from murdering literally everyone. SO FAR THESE THREE BOOKS ARE STANDALONE BUT WILL BE CROSSING OVER IN A "SPIDER-WOMEN" MINI-EVENT SOON Spider-Gwen (Jason Latour & Robbi Rodriguez): A direct continuation of the pre-SW series, Spider-Gwen follows Gwen Stacy in another dimension where she got bit by the radioactive spider instead. Silk (Robbie Thompson & Tana Ford): Another direct continuation, Silk is working for J Jonah Jameson's TV show and also going undercover as Black Cat's enforcer because she's still trying to figure out what happened to her family. Spider-Woman (Dennis Hopeless & Javier Rodriguez): Spider-Woman is still avoiding Avengers life and doing PI work with Ben Urich and Porcupine as her partners. Recently had a baby. PART SEVEN: THE X-MEN ALSO HAVE THEIR OWN THREAD, STILL EXIST The main X-Books are about to jump into a mini-event called APOCALYPSE WARS but it is explicitly modeled after Fall of the Mutants, where the indication is that each one will have a standalone arc focused on an Apocalypse-themed conflict and any connection between the books will be shading, not a direct book-to-book narrative. All New X-Men (Dennis Hopeless & Mark Bagely): The original teen X-Men are still in the present, and they're all (minus Jean Grey) globetrotting in a van, trying to find themselves. (All-New) Wolverine, Idie, and Evan/Kid Apocalypse are also in the van. They seem to be running into a lot of the very early X-Men villains (Blob, Toad) all grown up now. Extraordinary X-Men (Jeff Lemire & Humberto Ramos): The most traditional X-Book, and so naturally perhaps the most confusing. X-Men are basically living in Limbo now because X-POX or whatever, the team is primarily Storm, Colossus, Magik, Nightcrawler, (teen) Jean Grey, (adult) Iceman, and (Old Man) Wolverine. Also fan favorites like Anole and Rockslide wander through, sometimes getting sent into the future and aging into old versions of themselves? Uncanny X-Men (Cullen Bunn & Greg Land): Magneto is back (again) and basing himself in the ruins of Genosha (again) and defending mutants from X-POX and pretty much everything else. His team is Psylocke, (adult) Angel, Mystique, (still brainwashed to be good) Sabretooth, M, and Fantomex. They're fighting the DARK RIDERS, aka RIDERS ON THE STORM, aka Apocalypse's C-Squad, who are trying to murder any mutants with healing abilities because of Darwinism. Old Man Logan (Jeff Lemire & Andrea Sorrentino): Old Man Logan (of Old Man Logan and Old Man Logan fame) is in the modern Marvel Universe, confused how he got here, and determined to kill everyone responsible for his dark future in 'our' present. All-New Wolverine (Tom Taylor & David Lopez): Laura is trying to live up to her "Dad"'s example as the new Wolverine, and immediately uncovers someone trying to make clones of HER, giving her a perfect parental-figure opportunity. X-Men '92 (Chris Sims/Chad Bowers & Aktu Firmansyah): Remember the X-Men cartoon from the 1990s? It's that, in a loving tribute/parody/I don't know what to call it.
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Mar 21, 2016 05:35
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PART EIGHT: WHO CARES ABOUT THE DUMB OL' X-MEN THOUGH, WHAT ABOUT THE INHUMANS? Marvel is still pushing the Inhumans, though for all of the complaints about overpushing them, they have two ongoings and a third solo book that never comes out.  Uncanny Inhumans (Charles Soule & Steve McNiven/Brandon Peterson): More or less continues Soule's previous work before (and during) Secret Wars, focusing on Black Bolt, Medusa, Medusa's new boyfriend Johnny Storm, Beast, and about half of the new Inhumans introduced lately.  All-New Inhumans (James Asmus & Stefano Caselli): Crystal, Gorgon, and the other half of the new Inhumans introduced lately travel the globe as ambassadors for the Inhumans and to get to the bottom of all those Inhuman mysteries that people keep introducing. Like what are Skyspires? Nobody knows! They'll probably find out.  Karnak (Warren Ellis & Gerardo Zaffino/Someone Else I Guess): What if Karnak left the Inhumans and became a right hard bastard who is only as big a bastard as he has to be to out-bastard even bigger bastards doing Weird stuff on the Weird fringe? This is a Warren Ellis comic, and like many Warren Ellis comics it has been significantly delayed, but it's not his fault, it's the artist's. PART NINE: THESE BOOKS AREN'T EVEN OUT YET SO WHO KNOWS WHAT AWAITS? Black Panther (Ta-Nahesi Coates & Brian Stelfreeze): Coming April 2016. TNC, fresh off his guest starring role on Black-ish brings his Marvel stanning to the next level. Captain America: Steve Rogers (Nick Spencer & Jesus Saiz): Coming in May 2016. Steve Rogers is going to get young again and start being Captain America in a month or two, and maybe he'll be making up with Sam Wilson? Hyperion (Chuck Wendig & Nik Virella): Coming in March. Apparently the same Hyperion that is in Squadron Supreme, not any of the other ones running around, and *probably* the one from Hickman's Avengers, who is *probably* the one from the old Gruenwald stuff, maybe? Moon Knight (Jeff Lemire & Greg Smallwood): Coming in April. Starts with Moon Knight in an asylum apparently. Nighthawk (David Walker & Brandon Schultz): Coming in May. This is the Nighthawk from the JMS "Supreme Power" series who is also in the current SS book. It's going to be "noir tinged" according to advanced press. Punisher (Becky Cloonan & Steve Dillon): Coming in May. Who'd have guessed that THE PUNISHER would get a female as a regular writer ahead of Iron Man, Captain America, Green Lantern, the Flash, etc? Thunderbolts (Jim Zub & Jon Malin): Coming in May. Spinning out of the events of AVENGERS STANDOFF: ASSAULT ON PLEASANT HILL, with a team of Bucky and a lot of the original Thunderbolts. They probably announced some more books this weekend! IT'S AN ANAD DAY, YES IT IS. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 05:37
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It's mentioned in my initial post, but King went on record that he would be finishing up the story he planned in twelve issues. Here's him saying it on Twitter. https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/700425348052168708
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Mar 21, 2016 06:37
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I think part of the issue is that honestly outside of the Garth Ennis run (which probably doesn't fit into their transmedia plans), Marvel hasn't had a Big Definitive Baseline Punisher run in decades. None of his movies have really been successful, and none of the non-Ennis runs (from Avenging Angel to Wacky Quipster to Supervillain Gadget Assassin to Frankencastle to Punished Snake with Female Apprentice to Fascist Role Model with Female Apprentice) have really been the sort of Model Iconic Punisher they want to have. Everyone else they've given alternate versions (Spider-Man, Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Wolverine, etc.) have those familiar touchstones (both in comics and TV/film) to use as a baseline. They're still trying to get Punisher version 1 "right". This seems to be their MO. I haven't seen Daredevil season 2 yet so who knows how that might affect things.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:00
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SynthOrange posted:It wasnt all good though. There were some really, really bad ones. But a lot of them were really good.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:36
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Codependent Poster posted:Extraordinary X-Men is really bad. Uncanny is better. Captain America: Sam Wilson and Astonishing Ant-Man are both really dumb but people seem to like them. Black Knight, Guardians of Infinity, and Red Wolf might be really bad but I don't think anyone is actually reading them. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 15:04
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Dunbar posted:like Red Wolf a lot and I will be sad if (or apparently, when) they cancel it.
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Mar 22, 2016 16:59
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WickedHate posted:is Punisher was really great early on, but it burned out and I dropped it before it finished. Too bad, because it was loving amazing when it started. The part where he smiles and cracks wise while cutting dude's fingers off to steal their rings as they're eaten by crocodiles? The part where he's a cool customer who hangs out and flirts with lady cops and gives them the jewelry they stole off corpses? The part where he makes a lot of racial jokes at the expense of the minorities he indiscriminately murders? Or is it where he's seen as an unironic role model for military and law enforcement officers out in the field?
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Mar 22, 2016 19:29
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I still need to read Zero since multiple people have said it's solid, but everything else of Kot's I've read (Wild Children, Change, Bucky Barnes, Secret Avengers, Wolf, his Twitter) has been pretty unbearable. It's a ton of pre-emptive unearned self-high-fives for making clever references, for "getting away" with an elaborate pointless Borges reference in a Marvel comic, for being brave enough to tweet out blind items. He says he's 'woke' in his Twitter bio for goodness sake. I know some people love him, but you can only promise to blow the lid off of something so many times before people stop paying attention. Even his "I am leaving Marvel because they publish work by bad people, so I can work on books for Image, who also publish work by the same people" thing is weird back-pat point-scoring. As to why there are no tangible accusation against Edmondson: 1) This is also alleged, but in line with someone from a well-to-do conservative family that all but scrubbed Edmondson's youthful indiscretions (credit card fraud, working for a far-right think tank) off of the Internet, but Edmondson is very litigious, and it's likely that none of his would-be accusers or the blogs likely to post something about it are prepared to fight any sort of court battle about the rights to post mean things about him. 2) Even if there is no lawsuit involved, look at the most recent similar situation in comics, Brian Wood. Multiple women came forward, naming names and specific incidents. As a result, some people clucked their tongues and called Wood a scumbag, some other people called those women crazy bitches or liars or whatever, and Brian Wood continued (and continues) to write comic books for Dark Horse, Image, and for years after this all came out, Marvel. I find blind iteming or going "I have a really scummy story about this dude, I promise!" annoying as all hell, but at the same time I can absolutely understand why the women involved are hesitant to go public.
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Mar 23, 2016 14:29
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On a separate note (and I'll update the OP later) here are some books that aren't on the schedule for May or June, and therefore are probably canceled? All-New Hawkeye Angela: Queen of Hel Hercules (replaced with Civil War: Gods of War mini-series) Howling Commandos of SHIELD Illuminati Karnak (possibly just skipping some months because it's late as hell?) Red Wolf Spidey Weirdworld The only real possible surprises there are Hawkeye and Spidey, since they were selling significantly better than the other missing books. code:
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Mar 23, 2016 14:57
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Why do you guys enjoy the books you enjoy? What do you want to see improve in your borderline books? Why did you drop the books that you dropped? Why has there only been one issue of Mockingbird so far? What is up with Standoff tie-ins being pretty decent after such a terrible opening one-shot? Is Nick Spencer the next Dan Slott?
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Mar 26, 2016 06:16
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Veg posted:Daredevils art is loving amazing. Ron Garney is drawing better than he has in 20+ years. Soules story is a little weak so far but I'd rather it be average than *bad*, so I can keep oogling that art That said, if Soule and Garney were putting out a book on this level starring like Paladin or Wolfpack (or hell, a Blindspot solo book) I'd probably be really impressed. And the art is great regardless of what character it is.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:29
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MonsterWalk posted:So, I'm thinking of jumping back into comics after taking a couple of years off (I stopped buying comics when Secret Warriors ended. (Goddamn, how good was Secret Warrirors?)) I have Marvel Unlimited and I'm catching up. 2) To clarify, are you looking to start buying current weekly books in addition to the back catalog on Unlimited? If so, are these limited to Marvel, or are you accepting recommendations across publishers? Is it the "new monthly book I can follow along" thing important, or could it be something from the past couple of years you may have missed? Or is this more of a "what All New All Different Marvel should i read?" All of these questions are asked solely so you can get better suggestions and avoid two straight pages of lists with no elaboration and "IF YOU'RE NOT READING MODOK WACKY RACES STRAIGHT UP KILL URSELF"
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Mar 27, 2016 14:35
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Here is a handy guide to understanding the trademark BSS recommendation style.
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Mar 27, 2016 17:10
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Rhyno posted:I don't hate it. The OP has gone on record a hundred times that it's poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo gently caress YOU FOR LIKING IT though. The thing that made me speak out about this more than a simple "I didn't like it" which I realize is already setting me up for trouble because LOL WORDS TL;DR WHY DON'T U WRITE A THESIS is that while everyone has different tastes, a large number of posters here a) loved the poo poo out of Nextwave and push it as one of the greatest books ever, beyond being a blanket recommendation to people who are asking for things completely unrelated tonally to Nextwave. There was a good period where people lamented that Marvel wasn't publishing more books in the style of Nextwave, that other writers weren't taking Nextwave as a cue as to how to produce their books, why wasn't everything like Nextwave?? The realistic answer is "because it didn't sell very well, and why would you take a bunch of successful books and try to make them more like less successful books?" If I've been vocal about my annoyance at all of this, imagine a world where everyone around you loving ADORED the late 1990s animated show The PJs. It was an okay show, and had talented people involved like Eddie Murphy and Larry Wilmore. It wasn't that good or successful, though I don't begrudge its existence. Imagine if every time someone asked about the best TV shows to catch up on, someone said THE PJS, WATCH THE PJS IMMEDIATELY. Done with Breaking Bad and looking for a show to binge on? Next stop, THE PJS Really enjoying the political comedy on Veep? WATCH THE PJS How did you like Mad Men? COULD'VE BEEN BETTER IF THEY WERE MORE LIKE THE PJS Has anyone watched the Grinder? I hear it's pretty-- UGH MAYBE PEOPLE WOULD WATCH FOX IF THEY STILL AIRED THE PJS The overlap of Nextwave/PJs lovers and people who post low/zero content posts of UGH I JUST LOVE/HATE IT WHY YOU WANT WORDS ABOUT THING? was/is generally pretty high too. Rhyno posted:I have faith that it will be properly explained. Also they list Clint as "ex shield agent" but was that ever actually a thing in the comics? In Fraction's run he worked for them but going back he was never an agent until MCU poo poo started trickling in. WickedHate posted:Today I learned Turner D. Century's birth name was not in fact Turnder D. Century, and I am so disappointed. twistedmentat posted:Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive? Sunspot: Son of an evil Hellfire Club dude, repeatedly quit Xavier's school in a rage, eventually falling in with some evil mutants and then turning into Reignfire, then joined the Hellfire Club himself, later purchasing AIM Wiccan: An untrained magic user whose untrained magic using mother caused multiple catastrophes, who almost caused one himself (and nearly causes another immediately upon the team forming), who went anti-registration, is possibly forged from a shard of Mephisto's soul Hulkling: Another anti-registration fighter whose parentage has brought multiple galactic conflicts to Earth, almost does do again immediately upon the team forming Pod: A girl who bonded with an alien intelligent armor created iby Ex Nihilo "seeding" the Earth, an act which killed multiple millions of people, then immediately captured and experimented on by the still-Evil version of AIM Max Brashear: Blue Marvel's kid who literally turned into a supervillain to get back at his Dad, has apparently made up with him but still White Tiger: I mean, I feel like half of the people who have used her amulet have gone bad over the years, they've been described as evil/malevolent, and there is a murderous tiger god attached to them Power Man: He seems like a good kid, but SHIELD probably racially profiles like everyone else Squirrel Girl: Maybe they just want to know how to beat her? Plus the whole "powerful superteam on a sovereign island flying the flag of a longtime evil organization" is bound to raise a red flag with anyone.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:33
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That isn't really an apt comparison. In a lot of ways, wrestling is a zero sum game. If you're giving twenty minutes to John Cena to cut a promo, that's twenty minutes of airtime you could be giving to [insert whatever wrestler you think is Nextwave]. If you have Big Show interupt a [Nextwave] match and effortlessly chump [Nextwave], people will see [Nextwave] as lovely compared to Big Show. If [Nextwave] isn't given any time to shine on television, it will become an afterthought. If [Nextwave] never is given an angle to get it on a PPV, it's going to lose money and lose prestige. In the reality of the comic book world, Nextwave launched and came out for twelve issues and didn't sell very well. It didn't sell awfully, but it was barely above the cancellation line after twelve issues. Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen were both demanding money that was not at all in line with the amount of money a book like Nextwave was bringing in, so the decision was made not to continue it. Ellis got Thunderbolts (and newUniversal), Immonen got Ultimate Spider-Man. None of these things are very similar to Nextwave, neither are any of the projects both men have taken on in the decade since Nextwave ended, and almost all of them have been far more popular overall. I'm not even sure how to translate this into wrestling terms. Is it that WWE buried Reverend D-Von and the Deacon Batista characters, and even though the Dudleys Boys and Evolution both did waaaaay better than that evil preacher gimmick, we should still be mad that the evil preacher gimmick got "buried" in the name of... I don't know, corporate mentality? I can see someone (with a taste for sleeveless blazers) making that argument, but I still don't see the comparison. This isn't the mentality of "ONLY LIKE ONE THING AND WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT THAT ONE THING IS", or else every big Marvel book would still be an X-Men crossover written by Scott Lobdell and Fabian Nicieza. In the period Nextwave was being published, Marvel was also publishing (amongst other things): Agents of Atlas, Annihilation, Astonishing X-Men (Whedon/Cassaday), Black Panther (Hudlin), Cable & Deadpool, Captain America (Brubaker), Daredevil (Bendis/Brubaker), Dr. Strange The Oath, Eternals (Gaiman/JRJR), Immortal Iron Fist, Marvel Zombies, New Avengers (Bendis) Planet Hulk, Punisher MAX , Runaways, She-Hulk (Dan Slott), Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Factor (Peter David), X-Men First Class, and an X-Statix mini-series. Some of these only went on for one arc, some got multiple second chances, some became huge hits, either directly or leading into bigger things for the creative teams. Which one of these is the "John Cena"? And sure, doing comedy books is always good, I like comedy a lot, I just didn't care for Nextwave's brand of comedy. Marvel is running several comedy books right now, with varying degrees of sales and quality, but they're still putting them out. The thing that annoyed me then (and would annoy me now if someone was sincerely saying it) is not that Nextwave (or Squirrel Girl) should have the right to exist, it's not even "more people should read them", it's the attitude that New Avengers would be better if it was written like Nextwave. That rather than dumb old boring Iron Fist or Black Panther, that they should publish a wacky Bender Machine Man solo series. People were loving nuts for Nextwave. Back to wrestling, the New Day are wacky. I really like the New Day. I don't think that Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn need to try to sell their feud in the style of the New Day. I don't want Dean Ambrose to be all New Day in order to take on Brock Lesnar. I would love to see Cesaro get a serious push, but he shouldn't try to play the trombone and wear a unicorn horn to get a good match for Summerslam. That would all get super old super fast, just as it does when they shove Roman Reigns/Sheamus/whoever else as a John Cena clone down people's throats. If Marvel had a stolid "house style" book and they were publishing 50 practically identical-in-tone books (and Nextwave) I could see your comparison, but they weren't and they aren't. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 04:46
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PaybackJack posted:I don't know where you get people wanting New Avengers to be like Nextwave from. I don't see people saying that, but I think when you compare something mediocre to something that was good, even if they fill different spaces you'd rather them both to be good and the same instead of different and good/mediocre. quote:For example, there's probably a lot of people who are feeling bored/disinterested in Better Call Saul and wish it was more like Breaking Bad. Obviously the two shows are different but those people could very well get their way by the end of the series if viewership starts to drop off. Breaking Bad's first season was pretty low viewership as well, but had strong critical reviews and had a huge following by the end. quote:My point here is that if there was a boring book, like say Black Knight was, rather than be a boring story that's different from Nextwave but bad, it's better that it's like Nextwave and good. Obviously there's no guarantee that Black Knight written like Nextwave would be good, but perhaps it might still be better than Black Knight written as it was that got it cancelled in 5 issues, all other things being equal. Though really, the key to making Black Knight a decent book is probably just to not have Frank Tieri write it. Frank Tieri is demonstrably bad at writing straight superheroes, at writing antiheroes, at writing crime stories, at writing political intrigue, and I'm guessing at writing fantasy in the Black Knight. He'd be really lovely at writing a Nextwave pastiche too I bet. This is kind of like the argument about Nick Spencer's Assault on Pleasant Hill I had the other week. I jumped immediately to calling it a lovely homage to Lost, but people correctly pointed out it was more of a lovely homage to the Prisoner, or even more directly a lovely version of Wayward Pines. It may have been a combination of all three, but at the end of the day it was still lovely. quote:edit: I think your TV show comparison with the PJs is probably better served being replaced with The Wire. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 05:58
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The PJs wishes it was the 1987 Montreal Expos
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Mar 28, 2016 06:34
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So I'm guessing that's Master Order that Galactus is punching in the face? What a rebel.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:43
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Rhyno posted:Who the gently caress knows. Nobody at Marvel gives a poo poo. Outside of a couple of cameos, Jubilee hasn't appeared in any post-Secret Wars comics. When she last appeared regularly in a comic book, she was still a vampire and in the process of officially adopting the baby. Oh wait I mean "gently caress it, who cares about loving  "
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Mar 30, 2016 04:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:Joe Casey was originally on Uncanny at the same time as Morrison was on NXM - I haven't read it but I've heard it's reasonably well-regarded. He didn't get on with Marvel, from what I have heard, and was replaced by Chuck Austen. He got his big break as a protege of James Robinson in that weird brief period where Robinson was in the X-Office writing forgettable parts of Generation X and Cable and some other stuff. Then he took over Hulk after Peter David quit the book after a decade, wrote about six issues and then they decided to reboot it with John Byrne, one of forty different revamps between David and Pak. He started writing Wildcats after Lobdell/Charest's revamp of it almost immediately flamed out, and was part of the "Superman 2000" revamp that they were set to do with Morrison/Waid/Millar/Peyer but then ditched them at the last minute for Loeb/Kelly/Casey/Schultz, which lasted about two years before the next round of totally revamping the Superman books. I remember Casey bragging how SUPERMAN DIDN'T EVEN THROW A PUNCH FOR MY RUN, EXCEPT FOR WHEN HE DID. Parallel to that he got the Uncanny X-Men gig in the early days of Jemas/Quesada Marvel. He immediately turned it into a book about mutants using their powers to gently caress pop stars and be the best prostitutes possible and to make drugs and stuff because POP STARS or something, I probably didn't give it a fair shake because it was up against NXM and X-Statix and had Ian Churchill drawing half of it. This is the period where Joe Casey was sort of in this phase of doing these long sprawling self-indulgent stories that will totally pay off in year three and four and look man i'm an artist and you're a suit so what the gently caress do you know what the audience wants and wait what's that? THE BOOK IS CANCELED? JUST GIVE ME THIRTY MORE ISSUES TO WRAP THIS UP PLEASE SALES WILL PICK UP. His X-Men was more the "not into listening to suits" side of ending abruptly, but he did things like have the first twelve issues of Deathlok be a build up to a story about the Ringmaster being elected president and whoops i was canceled before he got to the story he "wanted to tell". Automatic Kafka was just a mess of self indulgence that ended 'prematurely' and literally wrapped up with Joe Casey hanging out in a comic shop in his sunglasses going HEH I GUESS HEADS WASN'T READY BUT YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE HOW loving AWESOME THE NEXT TWENTY ISSUES WOULD HAVE BEEN, LATER NERDS. His Wildcats 3.0 was better but dragged things out insanely and ended after 20-odd issues but WAS JUST GETTING WARMED UP. Joe Casey then did a weekly column on CBG where he complained about all of this stuff in between talking process with his protege Matt Fraction. Since then he's done a bunch of mini-series at Marvel to varying levels of attention, and in addition to Godland he has a lot of other books coming out at Image that I never hear anyone talking about but apparently must be doing pretty okay? His book SEX has gone 26 issues, THE BOUNCE is up to issue 12, and he's had some other books too. Plus he did like a year and a half of GI Joe and a KISS comic book.
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Apr 18, 2016 18:06
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The book is out, and the new 'origin' is hilarious. Avril Kincaid makes her way to THE LIBRARY and is looking for THE WEAPON and THE LIBRARIAN goes "sup are you looking for these?" and pulls out the quantum bands. THE LIBRARIAN is Wendell Vaughn, who off-panel became convinced that as Quasar he had too much power and it was corrupting him, so he voluntarily submitted to being part of Pleasant Hill. Then he just gives up the bands to Avril who immediately saves the day with them. In the epilogue he's hanging out in a three piece suit trying to train her to make light constructs but he already knows soon she'll be the best Quasar. Legacy characters and representation are cool and all, but this entire book felt like the most 'moving things around because someone asked us to and we can't be bothered to come up with a good story around the moves' thing ever.
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Apr 27, 2016 14:38
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The thing to remember with Standoff/Pleasant Hill is that the bookends/main narrative were written by Nick Spencer, meaning pretty much every character is written in a sort of detached ironic quipster sort of way. There's probably a way to make Maria Hill come off as sympathetic or at least identifiable in the whole Pleasant Hill plan/disaster, but she's written for most of the event in a way where she's basically going "Sup broheim, what I say to your Geneva Conventions is a big ol' WHATEVS. Bee tee dubs, I gotta go watch Game of Thrones, we'll deal with this paperwork later, AT LEAST I NEVER MOLESTED KIDS LIKE D-HASTERT, AM I RIGHT?" To be fair this is the voice that Spencer also writes Bucky, Baron Zemo, pretty much every single character in, so I'm not 100% sure it was a choice.
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Apr 29, 2016 02:43
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Blockhouse posted:guys did you notice edge & christian doesn't like nick spencer yet
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Apr 29, 2016 04:11
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Blockhouse posted:what am I going to do, argue it with you? What would the point in that be? better to meta-post about how posters are dumb right right right
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Apr 29, 2016 13:40
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The mists getting released was pretty much an end-run attempt by Black Bolt (and Maximus) to keep the Inhuman race alive during the Infinity crossover. Thanos was trying to find and murder his child (they didn't really go into too much detail about why he had a child, no) and when Thanos hit Earth all he knew was that his son was part-Inhuman, so his face-saving measure was to show up and just go "look deliver me the heads of every Inhuman youth in this age range and I'll let you live. Don't do it and we'll murder 100% of you." Black Bolt figures out that Thanos's kid is not part of the main Attilan group of Inhumans but is living somewhere else. Thanos's deadline approached and his plan was to evacuate Attilan, wait for Thanos there and set off a huge bomb in the abandoned city, hopefully killing Thanos (and probably Black Bolt but hey, he's the king). The secondary part of this plan was releasing the Terrigen mists out into nature so at least future Inhumans got the chance to be Inhumans, or something. All of this was sort of portrayed as "heavy lies the crown" stuff, Black Bolt knew it was a dicey idea to just unleash the mists out into the world but thought it was preferable to mass extinction. He also did it (presumably, if writers were remembering recent history) with the knowledge that Terrigen Mists have wildly varying and often negative effects on mutants, but the whole plan was a last-minute hail mary to avoid full on extermination, so he might have just figured mutants would have to figure it out himself. The fact that Thanos and Black Bolt both survived this with no ill effects and then the entire universe got destroyed/restored shortly after kind of make it seem like the mists are just floating around because whatever, though. In terms of "what did the other Inhumans think of all of this" I am kind of fuzzy but there were a lot of reactions. People were kind of upset that he sacrificed their entire city and wouldn't let [all of the other Inhumans] take part in the fight, even though it was against Thanos and his army. I feel like there was an early (since muted) side of Inhumans that are isolationist aristocrats that were also pretty pissed that now some dumb jabroni who works at a human pizza place might get terrigen powers too. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 16:55
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Gaz-L posted:It's good, but the Gwen stuff, much like her solo book, is the weakest part. To the point where the stuff in her world from the other titles is probably better handled. It's likely a good thing the writer is stepping away from comics soon. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 6, 2016 |
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May 6, 2016 04:39
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Speaking as someone who works with kids ages 6-18 pretty much every day, their Darth Vader hoodies and Darth Vader winter hats and Darth Vader lunchboxes and Darth Vader toys and their comparisons of Trump to Darth Vader and their Darth Vader everythings suggest they are familiar with Darth Vader. A lot of them are confused as to how Anakin Skywalker AND Darth Vader can both be Luke's dad, leading at least one kid to earnestly ask me if Anakin and Vader are a gay couple, but kids know who Darth Vader is.
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May 12, 2016 19:07
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I only read the first couple of issues but what did Abnett's Hercules run to do ""actively insult" fans of the Pak/Van Lente version of Hercules? I know it's a pretty big deviation in tone/contents, but so are all of the Avengers books right now post-Hickman and I wouldn't consider those "actively insulting" the Hickman fans. Also yeah, Hercules is selling pretty terribly. But so was Pak/Van Lente's Hercules by the time it wrapped up, which is probably why they were looking to go another way with the character. It's also selling better than Weirdworld. I'm never quite sure where "this book's sales are low because people are taking a powerful stand against a lovely comic" and "this book's sales are low because the lovely comic industry won't appreciate its greatness" but it's all relative, right?
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May 17, 2016 14:45
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The last issue of a Pak/Van Lente Herc book (Herc #10) actually came out in November 2011 so it's been almost five years since that iteration wrapped up. That particular series was selling around 13,000 copies by the end of its short run. The new version is selling even worse (or getting down to 13,000 even faster) but they probably felt the need to try something new instead of trying to bring back a take that hasn't been seen for five years and didn't sell well five years ago. The other thing is that without digital sales (and the assumption that because people like to post funny panels on the internet, lots of people are buying the comics on the internet) a lot of these funny books don't actually sell very well. code:
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May 18, 2016 14:50
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Heathen posted:Nighthawk reminded me of the old Milestone Comics from the 90s but not in a good way. It's a shame because I really enjoy Power Man and Iron Fist.
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May 27, 2016 00:46
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Toxxupation posted:. If anything, I would argue that Miles is the more popular one, especially since Miles seems to be the latest teen hero that Marvel pushes to do the the Spider-Man story (whose focus changes every decade or so, starting with Peter back in 1961 and running through Nova (Richard Rider) in the 70s, Rogue/Kitty Pryde in the 80s, Darkhawk in the 90s, Ultimate Spider-Man in the 2000s and Miles in the 2010s, with some Kamala Khan as well). Books Starring Peter Parker code:code:To be clear I'm not saying Marvel is racist or marginalizing Miles Morales or anything super sinister or lovely, I'm just saying there's really no way to argue Miles Morales is more popular that Peter Parker, and even putting him into that shaky narrative of "the latest teen hero Marvel pushes to do the Spider-Man story" thing is not a vote of confidence in Miles seeing as the actual lineage of that is basically the original Nova series, Speedball, Darkhawk, and Sleepwalker.
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May 27, 2016 14:04
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Just saw this was "most prominent hero" which there isn't much competition for outside of people in the X-Men/Young Avengers franchises, but in terms of current LGBTQ representation in current Marvel comics here is an incomplete list: There is a lesbian couple as the secondary protagonists/possible antagonists in TNC's new Black Panther run. POD in New Avengers is a lesbian bonded with some sort of alien battle armor which does not have a sexuality. Machinesmith is a gay robot in Ant-Man. They don't appear that much at the moment, but Peter Parker's old Horizon Labs boss is gay and Spider-Man attended his wedding a year or two ago. Patsy Walker's best friend is a gay dude and her new roommate is a bisexual man. Victoria Montesi (from the 1990s Midnight Sons books) is a lesbian and is currently appearing in Carnage.
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May 28, 2016 00:46
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The biggest problem is that yeah, it was Thanos. Thanos, the mass-murdering death cult leader who routinely tries to snuff out entire universes. To stop his plan, to CAPTURE him, with what amounts to two casualties is a big win. It's practically the definition of "acceptable losses". I think this sort of the problem with big event comics where the first act is all laid out in promotional materials six months out, it was a big rush from "kid has premonitions of existential threats to humanity/all life, heroes prepare" when the two data points are both enormous threats. If they'd spent more time showing that maybe Team Carol was becoming overreliant on it, or practicing massively disproportionate displays of power, the confrontation at the end of the issue would have made more sense. If they marshaled forty heroes to keep the Black Cat from stealing the Mona Lisa and in the fracas Rhodey died protecting a painting or something, Tony would have a point.
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Jun 2, 2016 22:38
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JoshTheStampede posted:People always ask for diversity and black characters, so I wrote a guy who literally doesn't have a body and takes over the cultural speech patterns of anyone he inhabits. DrProsek posted:On the one hand this sounds awesome and something I could totally be into but a solo series for a brand new character who sounds like he'll be off in bis own corner of the world doesn't sound long for this world. They might be doing option 2! 
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Jun 21, 2016 13:38
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Toxxupation posted:On top of being one of if not the best comics I've ever read, it's genuinely revolutionary in how it conveys its narrative. At times it feels like a high-class cable drama while still being clearly a comic book.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:48
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Norns posted:The book does a good job setting up why it's not just the same 40 or 50 year old story though. And to be clear, I'm not saying they should tell the same story over and over for 40-50 years, I'm saying Vision is a character with a backstory that goes back 40-50 years and the idea that he'll just make his own crazy robot family because he's a lonely robot is not a story that lines up very well with that 40-50 years of stories. It's not "tell the same story" as much as "use the same character". I'm sure there are some awesome stories to tell about a tech billionaire who builds a suit of armor to compensate that he is a lonely closeted nerd, but they aren't really Iron Man stories. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 21:49
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