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CSM posted:Alternatively, when we talk about racism and discrimination against muslims in Belgium, we also talk about things like discrimination and exclusion in the labour market. You know, real stuff. Well good thing austerity hasn't depressed wages and labor participation so your point is moot. Now, let us talk about how the moon god worshippers blow people up because a book tells them to.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:10
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Fragrag posted:They had one, which was run privately by one of the most prominent anti-Jihadi experts. And then the police arrested and brutalized him because he had copies of his book The Jihad Caravan in his car. FourLeaf posted:Can you explain why Belgium is so dysfunctional? That's probably more a result of Belgian dysfunction than the source. It's a pretty huge failure on the part of successive Belgian governments that they haven't shut that poo poo down though.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:11
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The New Black posted:In international reaction news, from the Guardian feed: There are reports that Russian special services have warned Belgium about upcoming attacks and even pointed out people who'd carried them out in the end. Among them were two brothers from Belarus. http://www.pravdareport.com/news/hotspots/terror/22-03-2016/133885-belgium_terrorist_attack-0/ Obviously, may not be true.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:13
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Right now, casualty count is only about the size of a train accident, right? Ok, not panicking.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:13
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meristem posted:Right now, casualty count is only about the size of a train accident, right? Ok, not panicking. yeah no worries only if casualties are like 20000 you should, under that is just life as usual in
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Mar 22, 2016 12:15
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/22/brussels-attacks-show-how-global-terror-networks-act-local It is inaccurate and unreasonable because it's hopelessly vague, who is this enemy? Muslims, everyone in Molenbeek, non-white people? Such language only encourages painting huge numbers of people with the same brush and permitting fear and discrimination against them which is part of the cause of all of this.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:20
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namesake posted:It is inaccurate and unreasonable because it's hopelessly vague, who is this enemy? Muslims, everyone in Molenbeek, non-white people? Such language only encourages painting huge numbers of people with the same brush and permitting fear and discrimination against them which is part of the cause of all of this. There seems to be at least a community in Molenbeek that aids and abets terrorists and I think it's fair to categorize these people as enemies within. I would go even further and classify anyone who is sympathetic with the goals of the terrorists as an enemy.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:25
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Deltasquid posted:I think this person meant that the prosecutors revealed too much information to the media which caused this cell to spring into action. Fear of being caught or something. I think it's far-fetched, though. This is what he was saying. As I said, it's speculation, but it's interesting. No doubt that Abdeslam's homies were watching his trial closely. I don't know what kind of information did or didn't make it to the press though.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:26
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Countries with little to no muslim population have no problems whatsoever with islamic terrorists. Just saying.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:27
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jonnypeh posted:Countries with little to no muslim population have no problems whatsoever with islamic terrorists. Just saying. 600,000 is a pretty small Muslim population.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:28
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CSM posted:Alternatively, when we talk about racism and discrimination against muslims in Belgium, we also talk about things like discrimination and exclusion in the labour market. You know, real stuff. Poor Salah Abdeslam, getting fired for not showing up at work. No wonder he started mass murdering people after such oppression.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:28
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Volkerball posted:600,000 is a pretty small Muslim population. I was thinking more like 200.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:29
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Why are people jumping to conclusions that it's islamic terrorism? Is there any proof? It could be a far right group as well.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:30
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sparatuvs posted:I have a friend in Brussels who was going home today. Checked in safe. ass struggle fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 12:30
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GaussianCopula posted:There seems to be at least a community in Molenbeek that aids and abets terrorists and I think it's fair to categorize these people as enemies within. I would go even further and classify anyone who is sympathetic with the goals of the terrorists as an enemy. Worked in Northern Ireland!
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Mar 22, 2016 12:31
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sparatuvs posted:I have a friend in Brussels who was going home today. You know which plane he was going to get? The passengers for the morning BRU-JFK flight would have been checking in right next to the explosion at that moment.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:32
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jonnypeh posted:I was thinking more like 200. Hmm yes, Greenland doesn't have much of an issue with terrorism. Great points all round op. HUMAN FISH posted:Why are people jumping to conclusions that it's islamic terrorism? Is there any proof? I saw a report that allah ackbars were heard, but we'll see. Odds are that's what it is.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:33
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Volkerball posted:600,000 is a pretty small Muslim population. 5% of the population is a sizeable minority, actually.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:34
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Volkerball posted:600,000 is a pretty small Muslim population. Jeez, didn't realize it was that high.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:34
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How do I disable these "your friend soandso is marked as safe" in the Facebook app? Like I already know my friends are safe thanks I don't need Facebook pestering me.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:34
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Paladinus posted:5% of the population is a sizeable minority, actually. He was referring to bulk numbers.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:35
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CSM posted:It isn't really, it's about as functional as your average European country. That's a bit of a stretch. After the 2014 election it took them 139 days to put together a government. After 2010 it took them 541 days. After the 2007 election it took 197 days to merely get an interim government in place, it was another 3 months after that until a more long-term solution was worked out. I don't see how that can be seen as anything but dysfunctional.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:39
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HUMAN FISH posted:Why are people jumping to conclusions that it's islamic terrorism? Is there any proof? Salah Abdeslam got arrested in Brussels last week, now this happens. That and there are still men belonging to his network that are on the run.... so it would make sense that it'd be Islamic terrorism. Though there isn't solid evidence yet.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:40
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I don't see why government dysfunction would imply muslim terror attacks. If that was the case, the US would presumably be attack central.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:41
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GaussianCopula posted:There seems to be at least a community in Molenbeek that aids and abets terrorists and I think it's fair to categorize these people as enemies within. I would go even further and classify anyone who is sympathetic with the goals of the terrorists as an enemy. right, but sadly Saudi Arabia have more money than you do, and everyone seems ok with the current situation forkboy84 posted:That's a bit of a stretch. After the 2014 election it took them 139 days to put together a government. After 2010 it took them 541 days. After the 2007 election it took 197 days to merely get an interim government in place, it was another 3 months after that until a more long-term solution was worked out. Belgium voted a government with the express goal of ending the existence of Belgium, something which they may or may not have to actually attempt. They're a failed state.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:41
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CeeJee posted:Poor Salah Abdeslam, getting fired for not showing up at work. No wonder he started mass murdering people after such oppression. Are you just dense? It's been shown time and again that isolating and oppressing people is a recipe for violence and extremism. That doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them. You're proposing that we ignore the causes of extremism or trying to address them because doing otherwise is tantamount to sympathizing with terrorists. That's like not putting on your seatbelt because we shouldn't sympathize with drivers who cause crashes.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:42
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muslim terrorists = drivers who don't put on seatbelts nice analogy
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Mar 22, 2016 12:42
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A talkhost of the Belgian radio station "MNM" saw it happen in the airport and was noticeably shocked and weeping. MNM's talkhosts were also the ones talking on a morning in januari how they were all tired of all the extra security measures in Brussels in the wake of Paris, and that it should just be put back to normal. They made light of it and said something similar to that they'll just deal with it if something happens because "such is life" or some poo poo. Well I hope they deal with it now, loving assholes.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:43
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Gyre posted:Are you just dense? It's been shown time and again that isolating and oppressing people is a recipe for violence and extremism. That doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them. Okay but by itself isolation and oppression doesn't make a religious extremist suicide bomber. You missed a component in your analysis there. Y'know, the religion bit.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:44
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Mar 22, 2016 12:47
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shrike82 posted:I don't see why government dysfunction would imply muslim terror attacks.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:48
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Rakosi posted:Okay but by itself isolation and oppression doesn't make a religious extremist suicide bomber. You missed a component in your analysis there. Y'know, the religion bit. Yes, but at the same time, Bangladesh and India combined have over 300 million Muslims, yet have had less of an issue with Islamic terrorism over the last few years than Belgium and France, who have less than 6 million Muslims between them. There are a shitload of factors at play here, and none of them is really the dominant one.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:51
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Volkerball posted:Yes, but at the same time, Bangladesh and India combined have over 300 million Muslims, yet have had less of an issue with Islamic terrorism over the last few years than Belgium and France, who have less than 6 million Muslims between them. There are a shitload of factors at play here, and none of them is really the dominant one. erm, Bangladesh and India have been grappling with domestic muslim terrorism bigger than anything seen in the West.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:52
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forkboy84 posted:That's a bit of a stretch. After the 2014 election it took them 139 days to put together a government. After 2010 it took them 541 days. After the 2007 election it took 197 days to merely get an interim government in place, it was another 3 months after that until a more long-term solution was worked out.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:53
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Rakosi posted:Okay but by itself isolation and oppression doesn't make a religious extremist suicide bomber. You missed a component in your analysis there. Y'know, the religion bit. These guys aren't even religious to begin with. It's an identity issue. The guys they see fighting back who look like them and speak their language are using Islamist rhetoric, they want to be like these guys. Immigrant populations tend to form more extreme identities than their parents came with. Most Mahgreb countries have a pretty chill version of Islam anyway. The guys in Belgium get angry first, then find Wahabbi mosques second.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:54
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Volkerball posted:Yes, but at the same time, Bangladesh and India combined have over 300 million Muslims, yet have had less of an issue with Islamic terrorism over the last few years than Belgium and France, who have less than 6 million Muslims between them. There are a shitload of factors at play here, and none of them is really the dominant one. Are you talking about bulk numbers here, too? Because this is factually incorrect.
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Mar 22, 2016 12:57
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shrike82 posted:erm, Bangladesh and India have been grappling with domestic muslim terrorism bigger than anything seen in the West. Attacks in India have almost all been done by Pakistani nationals. And Bangladesh hasn't had anything like this.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:01
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Volkerball posted:Attacks in India have almost all been done by Pakistani nationals. And Bangladesh hasn't had anything like this. lmao http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-a6914106.html quote:Islam could be dropped as Bangladesh’s official religion following a number of attacks in the country against people of other faiths.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:02
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Spangly A posted:Belgium voted a government with the express goal of ending the existence of Belgium, something which they may or may not have to actually attempt. They're a failed state. About 20% of Belgians (all of whom live in the northern part, Flanders) voted in the last election for the Flemish nationalists who ran on a program of devolving more powers from the federal government to the states. Since no other political parties besides the one actually wanted any of these reforms, a government was formed (including the nationalists) that doesn't even touch the subject. Belgian politics often times seem more dysfunctional than they actually are. It's nothing compared to the US, which functions a lot more like a failed state with politicians barely able to actually govern.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:02
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menino posted:These guys aren't even religious to begin with. It's an identity issue. The guys they see fighting back who look like them and speak their language are using Islamist rhetoric, they want to be like these guys. Immigrant populations tend to form more extreme identities than their parents came with. Most Mahgreb countries have a pretty chill version of Islam anyway. The guys in Belgium get angry first, then find Wahabbi mosques second. But it's the Wahabbi mosques and the faith they peddle that get them to strap bombs to themselves. Disaffected youth is a global phenomenon, but the affliction seems to mutate rather nastily when mixed with Islamic extremist beliefs but no one wants to mention the I-word, as if it is some ingredient in a lethal cocktail which has to be censored out of any discussion on this brand of terrorism.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:04
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