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 The Game. Hello and welcome to another LP of the ongoing Goon game of Advanced Tactics Gold (ATG for brevity). If you are another player in the game get out of here you naughty sod. ATG is basically a turn based WW2 wargame simulator where you fight on any number of scenarios or generate random ones then refight not-WW2. It features both strategic (production, resources, oil, research, diplomacy) and tactical play (pushing counters around.) It looks like this...  Yeah, no fancy graphics here just a simple yet fairly flexible wargame with a typical hex and counters interface. Its also fairly cheap and on steam. I'm happy to discus gameplay specifcs but there are previous LP's and possibly Generation Internet's if you want to discover the basics. However no game knowledge is needed to spectate/commentate as like I said it's pretty much just imaginary WW2 mashed up with diplomacy reminiscent of the Goon Dominions 4 games. I will have to ask that people who are reading both please try avoid leaking intel between LP's. We already had one hilarious leak of information so far (someone in on an email who shouldn't have been) but no more would be good. The playing field. In this case we have a randomly generated 8 player map which I have tweaked a fair bit to iron out the vagaries of the random generator (it still looks like dogshit but at least its interesting) and I really wanted to force players to think about diplomacy in the run up to war. So far a year (12 turns) has gone by with no shots fired. Without further ado. The MAP. I am playing The Middle Kingdon AKA China. Political view:  Terrain View:  Its a mess, the players are as follows (in order of play): code:Due to the sensitive nature of Goon diplomacy i'm not going to discuss plans other than the basic layout of alliances until the war starts, which is any second now I expect... Alliances So far three alliance Blocs have emerged with Phi230 (Das Reich) standing alone. [The Axis] Nippon/Burgugundy/Cairo republic [The Good Guys] Middle Kingdom (Me)/The Empire [The Reds] Soviets/Eastern Empire Ill give my perspective of the early diplo in short. Bear in mind there's no guarantee this is all accurate as I can't read minds and it's from memory. -Initially I had a (slightly embarassing now) plan with the Eastern Empire to both invade The Empire together but this fell apart before the game even began. -First up Burgundy/Cairo allied to secure that long border of theirs. -This caused the Soviets to panic and seek alliance with the Eastern Empire as suddenly Burgundy only really has one target. -Me and Nippon agreed to a deilitarised border but he seemed disinterested in an alliance, mostly due to lack of easy targets for us I expect. He shortly allied with Burgundy/Cairo to form a triple alliance and the strongest single bloc in the game. -Cue more panic from the two Russian players. -Due to Das Reich being... in character? (Hitlerish and mad) I formed an alliance with The Empire to secure our long border. -In the biggest fuckup of the game so far Generation internet (Nippon) accidentally included Das Reich in an email planning session for the Axis to invade the Reds. Das Reich promptly forwarded it to everyone. Yeah.  -Much more tension between the Reds and the Axis. The good guys are concentrating on looking nonthreatening so the other two go at it first. The world currently looks like this:  Everyone has been franticaly industrialising and arming, winter has just finished so I expect the fighting to begin between the Red and the Axis any second now. As of May 1934 (turn 13) the southern half of the map has returned to clear weather while the north is still mired in mud. With that out of the way... any questions! Unfortunately I woont be commenting on current deployments or my plans (lose lips sink ships y'know) but im happy to answer questions on other matters. Once the war/s start ill post a more detailed reasoning about why I did what and post detailed updates from about turn 12 ingame. Upcoming posts --Unit designs, what/why. --My ?evil? plans for the initial war. Let me know anything else you would like my perspective on. Saros fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 02:38
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I don't have any particular questions but thanks for undertaking this. It's fascinating to see all these different player perspectives.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:17
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I look forward to seeing where this goes, Goon vs Goon threads are fun.
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Mar 24, 2016 14:52
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Unit design and philosophy I'm going to do a brief rundown of my basic unit designs and the whys behind them. Most of the other players I can see are favoring big 'corps' sized 100 stack infantry units, my philosophy is a bit different. This early in the game there are two important things that units must be, cheap and efficient. Limited production capabilities and raw material availability means that things like mechanised infantry with halftracks and loads of tanks are way too pricey, I also want to keep units around the 50-60 stacking mark where possible so attacks can be made from two+ hexes (for a bonus) without overstacking the attack (1-2 hexes = 100 stack limit, +50 limit per hex over two attacked from.) It also means that they can support an armored attack without overstacking. So the Basic infantry division.  Basically built to hold the line as cheaply as possible and be able to fight off tanks if entrenched in bad terrain for them. As I get more capacity I will likely swap the Bazooka and a few rifles out for AT guns for more anti-tank defensive ability. Can be placed 2 per hex. Next up is the SMG division.  It kinda sucks to be these guys as they get the dirty jobs like digging entrenched enemies out of forests and cities so they are much more offensively minded than the rifle division. Light armor  Only one job for this unit, mulching infantry units foolish enough to be caught out in the open and staying as cheap as possible while doing it. No match for proper tanks but so very much cheaper. Tank Division  When you wanna ruin someones day with no expense spared you bring the Tank division. The AT gun helps a lot with defending against other tank unit attacks and will be replaced eventually with an assault gun or tank destroyer. Amphibious Corps  My only 100 stack combat unit, these guys make opposed landings and basically die a lot because opposed landings are nearly suicide in this game. A lot of offensive punch for an infantry unit. They could really use a light tank or something tagging along but they are heavy for sea transport so infantry/artillery it is. Production and industrialisation My production for the april turn. I have all the infantry I need so I am concentrating on filling out Tank divisions. I have 1 tank and 1 Guns factory and have had both for a while prefering to invest in factories as early as possible. I have had both factories longer than any other player so have not spent any city production on artillery or tanks. I am also stockpiling supply for the fighting ahead and upgrading units.  Resources  I'm bottenecked by raw production at the moment (ships and bigger tanks take MASSIVE amounts of raw) so I spent a lot of PP upgrading raw and not much on oil, I have a decent stockpile of oil and will upgrade a second oil well shortly. Saros fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 15:47
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I wish i knew how to play this game.
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Mar 24, 2016 15:51
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Its surprisingly simple, playing well is a bit more tricky but the basics are: 1) Ordering guns/mans/tanks to be built in your cities/factories. 2) Piling those guns/mans/tanks into unit counters on the map. 3) Mashing counters together and cackling maniacally. Units and subformations basically work about as you would expect in WW2 so a understanding of the mechanics under the hood is totally not necessary for playing the game.
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Mar 24, 2016 15:59
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warhammer651 posted:I wish i knew how to play this game. Buy it on steam, and start playing it. It really is very fun. Between this LP, Generation Internet's LP, and the tutorial scenarios you can at least get started. That being said, I have been playing this game on and off for two years now, and I still learn something new every time I boot it up, or read one of these threads.
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Mar 24, 2016 16:00
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Who do you think is in the best position right now?
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Mar 24, 2016 16:07
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Looks like its beginning right now... (from the turn email chain)Das Reich posted:Anybody care to estimate what time till midnight the doomsday clock is at? Nippon posted:I thought we were all playing Stardew Valley and peacefully building our farms??? Saros fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 16:08
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unwantedplatypus posted:Who do you think is in the best position right now? Frankly me/The Empire, partly because I have more freedom of action than the other alliances and partly for reasons that must remain secret for now. The Reds and Axis are on a collision course and Das Reich has alienated his neighbours so is dead meat whenever an alliance turns his way (I do think he has some sort of mutual defence pact with the Societs however). Saros fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 16:11
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Really interesting to see the different unit design philosophies (both similarities and differences) - guess we'll end up seeing which ones work out shortly.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:00
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So how is the naval aspect of this game? It seems you and GI are the only true naval powers possible on this map (and it's more a matter of geography than production for GI). Are ships only useful against other ships, or are they worth using against land and ground units?
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Mar 25, 2016 04:52
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So what made you upgrade PP over Oil? Seems like Oil will be much more useful if you decide to start advancing with anything other than foot infantry. Also I honestly think that you and the Empire are in the best position.
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Mar 25, 2016 06:12
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Ships are good at two things, fighting other ships and interdicting sea supply. CA and BB can bombard coastal hexes but are not great at it for the large amount they cost. CA also have high anti aircraft ratings. Right now me and Gen I are the two players with the most coastline so I would expect us to have the most naval worries. Gen I also holds Nagaoka which allows transit between the central and northern seas and is a crucial strategic point. Apparently the Soviets have built some CA too so who knows where the naval game will go. As for PP vs oil, do you mean raw or the factories I built? I built the raw as I was production limited by it and only recently upgraded an oil (another next turn) as it was less urgent. It's only really needed once war begins and I always had other priorities. Factories I find are the key as they allow you to move production out of your cities which means more city production for PP which means more infrastructure investment sooner and better tech. I was quite surprised how long it took some players to get factories, especially Gen I and he still only has one gun factory. Judging by MG III and other upgrades I've seen he's going infantry heavy and quality over quantity style of army. Big infantry corps (100 stack) units too judging from the ones on my border. Tech wise I have picked up Infantry gun III and got some tech from the Empire. Phi (Das Reich) seems to have a pretty heavy focus on planes and artillery. Again big 100 stack infantry units. The Empire is plane and factory mad (1 tank, 1 gun, 2 aircraft factories) and has upgraded medium tanks and aircraft mostly. Everyone else is a mystery due to lack of recon. The good news is the game now passed the point of no return so I'm free to talk about plans and schemes. I'll have a full report for turns 12/13 up later this morning and full disclosure of which way I intend to jump. Saros fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 10:52
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Its time Ill start with completing the situation as of March 1934 (turn 11). Its winter across the whole map and everyone is quiet. The Northern Border.  Most of the troops are wintering in the suburbs to avoid winter losses and stay away from the coastline which is rife with snooping Nipponese ships. The rest are conceaed in the treeline. Central and Southern  The astute among you will immediately notice something is up. ------------ April 1934 (turn 12) The weather breaks somewhat, the southern part of the map unfreezes and reverts to a muddy hell. South  Nothing is happening except some Nipponese DD's snooping around. Central  Extremely inconvenient Nipponese destroyers sweep the coast, luckily cities have cover and the rest of the troops are back from the coast so cannot be seen. Northern  The slower infantry/artillery units move up to the forest line, still concealed from nipponese scouts by the dense vegetation. The armor continues to winter in Chengdu. Engineers prepare to lay railroads and Airfield to support the advance. --------------- So as you may have guessed by now... the clock is ticking on Nippon. The secret pact Since about turn 4, shortly after Nippon allied with Burdungy/Cairo there has been a secret accord between Me/The Empire and Das Reich. The point of this accord is to prune down the triple alliance that had formed. The basic agreement is that we will prepare for war with Nippon, ideally to coincide with the expected Axis/Red war. Das Reich plays bad cop, staying out of the alliance and aggravating Nippon so his attention remains off me. I play the good cop and pretend to be equally as aggravated by Das Reich and further pretend to prepare for an invasion of the Reich. The whole time we are secretly allies and will strike to cripple Nippon and thus the triple Axis alliance via amphibious landings and more conventional attacks. Its now turn 14 and time to take off the mask...  
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Mar 25, 2016 15:16
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I knew it
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Mar 25, 2016 15:33
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May 1934 (turn 13) The weather completely clears in the south while turning to mud in the North. Central The Central situation before my moves.  Suddenly the situation become more awkward. Nippon has moved his DD's away, I assume to go support moves against the Soviets or something but this puts them right in the path my amphibious forces have to take. Empire also sends engineers to build something on the island in the middle of the sea, I wish he'd told me because I think Nippon might have seen the move. Oh well too late now. I find a single hex within range of Nagaoka but outside of NIppons spotting range and send the main force there. The smaller force routes North and hopes that Nippon didn't see Empire's Engineers.  After moves. Red indicates intended invasion points. I'm not worried about the DD's I have cruisers and a lot of air support from The Empire so we should be able to remove them pretty easily. The invasion force: Main force:  Support:  Secondary:  Cruiser Division:  The North  In the North the armor has used the roads to move up to the forest edge in the mud turn. Infantry has also moved forward and the Jeep units are in position to cut his supply lines while a more general advance goes ahead. Paras (bue) will also drop if it becomes necessary to cut off the supplies flowing to Narita. Subs also take position to interdict sea supply. The other militarised border, the Empire's bulge with the Eastern Empire remains quiet. Empire will move up his amphibious troops in his turn.  The Axis and Reds teeter on the brink of war, it may even start before my next turn. Ideally so! Nobody is aware of the hidden dagger approaching Nippon. Now I have to go play turn 14 and the beginning of the greatest war the world has ever seen. 
Saros fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 15:41
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Turn 13 interlude, Nippon turn DISASTER  Luckily he seems to believe the best of me and gives me an easy out. I lie my rear end off. For what its worth Empire really didn't ask about the engineers I was as suprised as anyone but its not a bad idea. (Me writing)  He seems to buy it for now, thank gently caress he didnt spot the southern force. I still expect him to invest in more defences but its really too late now, my troops will be landing before anything he builds this turn is ready and if he rails something to the coast it will have terrible readiness. I expect light garrisons in the city and maybe the Raw but I have a lot of troops and should be able to overwhelm them.  As an aside The Empire (Dryb) and Das Reich (Phi230) will now be posting in this thread Saros fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 15:51
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This had taken such a good turn. I have been reading the other thread but came here because of the Focus Pacific LP and thus I'm hoping you crush the Foolish Nipponese!
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Mar 25, 2016 15:56
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Agh yes I do appologise to my readers of that LP. The turns with me at the moment but im a bit burned out with the sheer amount of stuff that needs to be done in the turn and have been a touch distracted with this one.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:00
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Gen I by next turn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7GxW_fA-w I knew it! I knew the naval game was yours to win, but all you needed was Nagaoka! They called me mad, but I saw it!
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Mar 25, 2016 16:07
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RIP Generation Internet, too gullible to live.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:11
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Lolin' at Phi, the beautiful double faced genius bastard. Well done.
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Mar 25, 2016 16:50
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To avoid tipping anyone off inadvertently I will post only in this thread from now as a spectator
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Mar 25, 2016 16:50
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Oh its too late for that, I have turn 14 in my grasp just havent had a chance to play it, it's too late for anyone to react and by the time my turn is over it will be very obvious to everyone whats going on. [e]Phi should be along soon to post his perspective. Saros fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 17:40
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Saros/Phi you magnificent bastards 
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Mar 25, 2016 17:41
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Oh my god.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:31
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Your willingness to let allies into this thread might suggest, at least to my paranoid eyes, that you're being entirely too trusting of your allies in a game where backstabbing is probably a common and successful tactic.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:31
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The Soviets are red, The Empire is blue, My Panzer Divisions, Are coming for you The Das Reich Story Intro Finally! I can break my silence. This side of the LP has been just about 10 turns in the making. Almost everything went perfect, not only did we keep our alliance hidden for 10 turns, my character acting as a psychotic madman has Generation Internet believing I am not only neutral (in alliance terms) but hostile to all those around me. This cannot be farther from the truth. The ruse has worked. But before I get into the more recent turns, let me go over briefly all the diplomatic dealings from basically the start: GERMAN-JAPANESE INITIAL COOPERATION Me posted:
Generation Internet posted:Yessss, this is perfect because even before the player list was sent out I knew I wanted to get Not-Germany on side because of the geography of our communist neighbors. We could do a number on Not-China in particular if it came down to it, moreso if we could keep England either on our side or out of it entirely. I'm definitely in. So these are some emails that I sent to Generation Internet expressing an alliance. Basically I sent it to him because I'm trying to be not-Germany and sending an immediate alliance to historical allies was too appealing. The rest is a pretty boring email chain. But for several reasons I got cold feet from this alliance. Once I basically got sucked into the Nippon-Burgundy-Cairo alliance by Nippon, I decided to reevaluate my diplomatic situation. I thought a 4 player alliance would be too strong, I didn't like how they intended to split up the Russians (Both Soviets and Eastern Empire) since I would basically only get Pskov while they split up the rest, and it would be more interesting. Honestly this backstab we've just pulled off is worth me leaving that alliance. At this point I escalate the madman narrative while doing deals to secure my borders. Less of a genius move and more just having fun with being in-character. To be completely honest I kinda blundered my way into this masterstroke, it really was all pure luck and Generation Internet's gullibility and mistakes. Me posted:The Soviets have gotten wind of Barbarossa and are preparing for it. Generation Internet posted:
So the alliance is broken and my plans to invade are now setting in motion. I reach out to my other neighbors to secure peaceful borders: Me posted:Hey, Cairo/Dtkozl posted:Sure thing. Burgundy tells me you don't want to ally with him yet, and I am allied with him, so we can just do a non-aggression pact for now. I am completely open to an alliance, but I am probably going to get pulled into whatever happens since Burgundy is my other border. So if you are uncomfortable declaring now that is perfectly alright, I don't mind waiting and I will treat you as a friend until then. Got a non-aggression pact and demilitarized border with Cairo, Me posted:I'm 100% completely open to an alliance. However at this time, due to the international political climate I am uncomfortable declaring a full on alliance at this point in time. Once we actually start doing things and moving along that will change I'm sure, but right now the world is a web of open and secret agreements and alliances so I'm trying not to put myself in a bad position where I am obligated to every nation in a hypothetical war. What happens next is probably the most hilarious part of the LP so far. I already knew that the Axis bloc was going to invade the Reds, but that was all just big talk and no official plans were made at the point of me leaving the alliance. So Generation Internet accidentally CC's me in the email for official, designed plans for so-called 'Operation Barbarossa.' Loose lips sink ships indeed. Grey Hunter even replied with plans! I forward the email and replies to everyone who wasn't already included, this forged a-pseudo alliance with the Red bloc as they now knew who and where the real threats were. Border secured. Me posted:Urgent news Finally I reach out to my now close friends, allies, and coconspirators, The Good Guys about actually forming an alliance. I talked to Saros before and it was not very close, just about some non-aggression agreements. Me posted:I would be willing to form an alliance between us. Saros posted:It may be better to keep the alliance secret for now and ambush him if he attacks. I'll talk to my ally. Definitely keen to have you on board though. Little did we know what awesomeness would come from that single sentence. Turn 13, Das Reich So here's my situation as of turn 13.  My production for a few turns ago. I'm trying to pump out as much support as I can. This ties into later strategy which I will discuss soon. This is basically what I've been pumping out with some minor alterations every turn.  My glorious capital! Koenigsburg! Pictured is supreme German commander Mischa Fischer. He doesn't have any XP yet so we get a very small boost to combat and morale. Due to being the heart of my country, and farthest away from all borders, with the Cairo border being really lovely in that area, I focus all my industry around my capital. I make some picket fast-reaction tank divisions to guard the capital. Next up is the Cairo front,  I reneged upon our previous demilitarization. Why? Because my bloc is about to go to war against his bloc. I don't have the assets to commit to an offensive, but I can defend against what he's put up. Especially if I get reinforced from the Empire. Remember those picket tank divisions? I've been moving them to the swampy, foresty, rivered border with Cairo to do an Ardennes offensive against Cairo straight to his capital if he decides to fight. Its a gambit, but what isn't. Plus me spooking Cairo gets divisions pulled off of Barbarossa so that helps our Red friends. Finally, the most popular front, the Nippon front.  Led by our most skilled commander (who still has no XP), German Zhukov, gives us a pretty drat good combat and morale boost. I've since filled out the staff too. Basically my strategy is to hit those two infantry divisions as hard as I can and slog my way up to Nipponese cities. I have 2 Dive bombers, 10 level bombers (upgraded to II), 6 fighters, and 18 artillery pieces (upgraded to II) to shell and bomb the gently caress out of him before my tanks and infantry divisions go in. Despite naming my tank divisions "Schwerpunkt divisions" they will instead be purely infantry support until we break through to the plains. Also I have 2 paratrooper divisions which I will land near Chiba to cut off supply to the front. I don't expect them to last long, but I'll see what I can do. Once Saros launches his amphibious assault (right now) I'm going to start the offensive and the Germans will march to war! Operation Fall Nippon will be a massive combined arms strike followed by a push through the forest. We cannot fail. My production for next turn:  IT BEGINS  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lDfESYrb4k My next post will be about my units, unit compositions, research, and plans. The down and dirty details. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 18:35
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Leperflesh posted:Your willingness to let allies into this thread might suggest, at least to my paranoid eyes, that you're being entirely too trusting of your allies in a game where backstabbing is probably a common and successful tactic. Or that he's trying to lull his allies into a false sense of security by making a show of letting them into the inner circle. I'm really curious about Saros's long-term plans after dismantling Japan.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:36
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Allies share vision so we can see exactly what the other is doing. Plus if I was setting up for a backstab I just would have to not tell the thread or ban them from it. Really though it's mostly to increase the entertainment value of the thread. Anyway turns done, the jig is up. I just sent this to Gen I. quote:Hey I just met you/ Saros fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 18:37
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OK, yeah I hadn't realized that there was a mechanical in-game consequence to formal alliance. Also I hadn't looked in the other thread at all (am starting to read it now). I'll refrain from making even vague comments in either thread relating to the in-game situation now that I'm reading multiple sides, of course.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:07
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Leperflesh posted:OK, yeah I hadn't realized that there was a mechanical in-game consequence to formal alliance. Also I hadn't looked in the other thread at all (am starting to read it now). I'll refrain from making even vague comments in either thread relating to the in-game situation now that I'm reading multiple sides, of course. Yeah, it's probably best if everyone just stays fairly quiet in both threads just prevent something from slipping out even accidentally. GI's thread, uh, might not be relevant soon though.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:39
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How would you goons feel about an observer thread? So we can talk about the inevitable Jan Mayen invasion and such things without worry.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:53
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unwantedplatypus posted:How would you goons feel about an observer thread? So we can talk about the inevitable Jan Mayen invasion and such things without worry. It's probably worth holding off for a few turns since 1stGear posted:GI's thread, uh, might not be relevant soon though. We might be able to convert that one 
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Mar 25, 2016 20:00
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unwantedplatypus posted:How would you goons feel about an observer thread? So we can talk about the inevitable Jan Mayen invasion and such things without worry. I think this is a good idea. EDIT: I do sort of wish there was more of a delay on the turns though. Just for everyone's safety. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 20:03
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Generation Internet posted:
I just got this email from Generation Internet. They have no idea what's coming next, even now. Cairo posted:
Axis bloc in full panic mode trying to snatch me up. Again, they have no idea whats coming. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 20:22
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Could you please do something about those screenshots, Phi? They're extremely table-breaking for me.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:44
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Phi230 posted:...my character acting as a psychotic madman has Generation Internet believing I am not only neutral (in alliance terms) but hostile to all those around me. This cannot be farther from the truth. The ruse has worked. I'm impressed at the forum wide dedication, you really came off as a terrible person! So are you done making shitposts in the Total War threads too?
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Mar 25, 2016 20:44
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Triskelli posted:I'm impressed at the forum wide dedication, you really came off as a terrible person! So are you done making shitposts in the Total War threads too? No I will forever be a nasty cynic and shitpost until the game comes out then I'll fawn over it first my behavior in the LP makes people poo poo on me in TW threads now my behavior in TW threads makes people poo poo on me in the LP. The cycle of poo poo continues. Fixes the screenshots sorry. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 20:50
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