Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
Shattered Skies, homie. That alone is worth the price of admission. :whatup:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.
we have so far to go

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Lunethex posted:

we have so far to go

:livintrope:

Kal-L
Jan 18, 2005

Heh... Spider-man... Web searches... That's funny. I should've trademarked that one. Could've made a mint.

nine-gear crow posted:





Now, for the uncomfortable real world elephant in the room stuff. Yes, that is the World Trade Center right there front and centre in the middle of downtown Anchorhead. The Strangereal games have a history of importing real world landmarks into their various fictional locales, and since this game came out in 1997, no one could have imagined something like 9/11 actually happening.

That said, as I’ve pointed out in other videos, and as you’ll see in the Legacy version of Mission 3, Project Aces actually removed the twin towers from the Anchorhead skyline for the remake and replaced it with a generic very tall building.

Just a personal opinion, but I've never understood the whole erasing of the Twin Towers in all sorts of media because of the 9/11 attacks.

So, because they're not there now, means they must be retroactively erased until no one remembers there were those two buildings and how they were destroyed? I don't see it happening with other places or landmarks that were destroyed in a disaster, so it kinda sticks like a sore thumb that the Twin Towers tend to be replaced/erased. The most egregious example I can think of is in the "Mad about you" TV series they had an opening with various NYC shots, and that series ended in 1999. But after 9/11, the reruns had no more shots of the Twin Towers, which makes it very weird.

I thought americans were never going to forget about them, that's all. :911:

Mr.Flibble
Jul 23, 2008

Kal-L posted:

Just a personal opinion, but I've never understood the whole erasing of the Twin Towers in all sorts of media because of the 9/11 attacks.

So, because they're not there now, means they must be retroactively erased until no one remembers there were those two buildings and how they were destroyed? I don't see it happening with other places or landmarks that were destroyed in a disaster, so it kinda sticks like a sore thumb that the Twin Towers tend to be replaced/erased. The most egregious example I can think of is in the "Mad about you" TV series they had an opening with various NYC shots, and that series ended in 1999. But after 9/11, the reruns had no more shots of the Twin Towers, which makes it very weird.

I thought americans were never going to forget about them, that's all. :911:

It's less about trying to get people to forget about 9/11 and more about not triggering bad memories about it, especially for people who either lived though it or lost someone because it .

Phy
Jun 27, 2008



Fun Shoe
I remember Spider-Man 2 on the Xbox/PS2 had that memorial installation with the two banks of floodlights, roughly where the WTC had been.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013


:siren::siren:Assault Horizon Legacy - Mission 3 - w/ Lunethex :siren::siren:

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 04:59 on May 27, 2016

Kadorhal
Jun 3, 2013

Look, just sign the stupid petition. I've got stuff to do.

quote:

"You've just been Rendared extinct!"

Hey, Crow, you up for a co-op LP of the original Ghost Recon? For that quip I think you deserve to share in my pain. :mad:



no it was actually a thing of beauty

EDIT: Also, any idea how that gunpod works in AHL? I know in Infinity it's basically a second gun to fire alongside your regular one with the missile button, but here that ammo count is making me think it's more like the rocket launcher pod but with bullets.

Kadorhal fucked around with this message at 05:43 on May 27, 2016

Trizophenie
Mar 2, 2011

Jar Jar Binks improved my story.

Kadorhal posted:

EDIT: Also, any idea how that gunpod works in AHL? I know in Infinity it's basically a second gun to fire alongside your regular one with the missile button, but here that ammo count is making me think it's more like the rocket launcher pod but with bullets.

Yeah, when you use it it fires like 5ish seconds of bullets like the rocket pod.

Have a short video of it, it's at the end. (also have that barrel roll you you wanted Lunethex).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_hx7ewOQyw
Youtube

Trizophenie fucked around with this message at 08:23 on May 27, 2016

Red Minjo
Oct 20, 2010

Out of the houses, which is the most blue?

The answer might not be be obvious at first.

Gravy Boat 2k
So is this the version without the Nintendo planes or was the giant immersion-breaking ?-Block not in that mission because it only shows up once?

Trizophenie
Mar 2, 2011

Jar Jar Binks improved my story.

Red Minjo posted:

So is this the version without the Nintendo planes or was the giant immersion-breaking ?-Block not in that mission because it only shows up once?

I turned them off for the main playthrough and already got all of them on the ace difficulty file. I'll definitely show them off though.

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Kal-L posted:

Just a personal opinion, but I've never understood the whole erasing of the Twin Towers in all sorts of media because of the 9/11 attacks.

It's a game about shooting down planes, in which you can fly your plane into the Twin Towers. You don't understand why there might be sensitivity to that?

Nanomashoes
Aug 18, 2012

Look, sometimes all the Metal Gear Solid characters just teleport to federal hall in NYC and you have to accept that, OK?

Frogisis
Apr 15, 2003

relax brother relax
You'd have to go out of your way for some political point to include the WTC for anything made after the fact but going in and 1984ing it out for things made beforehand, like those Mad About You edits, is pretty craven and embarrassing.

It looks to my eye like AHL was largely reassembled from scratch so it actually would have been more effort to make sure the pseudo-WTC was still in there.
E: More to the point it's not a cute little "hey it's those real buildings in this fictional world" reference if they're not real buildings anymore.

Frogisis fucked around with this message at 22:57 on May 27, 2016

Kal-L
Jan 18, 2005

Heh... Spider-man... Web searches... That's funny. I should've trademarked that one. Could've made a mint.

Leif. posted:

It's a game about shooting down planes, in which you can fly your plane into the Twin Towers. You don't understand why there might be sensitivity to that?

I think that would be more appropiate for flight simulators. But if that's the concern, then why not just take out all tall buildings from the game? Or make them intangible?

I can understand why the remake didn't include them in the map or not wanting to add them to modern games, what weirded me out was the whole going over old media and erasing them.

Crow, are you going to show the "special" stuff? I mean the different planes you get

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Kal-L posted:

Crow, are you going to show the "special" stuff? I mean the different planes you get

I will, to the extent I can. The "model viewer" feature isn't unlocked until you clear the game, however, I will be doing missions with a more diverse array of planes than I did for Zero. Beyond that, I will be showing off everything I can by hook or by crook in the finale update like I also did for Zero.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013
Attack on the Front Base

Mission 4A: Operation Tin Castle – April 14th, 1998
Mission 4: Operation Tin Castle (Legacy Verison)

Overview: Scarface Squadron conducts a bombing run on a Rebel frontline supply base codenamed “the Keep” in the foothills of the Amber Mountains on the Erusea-San Salvacion border.

Gameplay Note: From here out the mission numbering scheme is going to get a little wonky as we do AC2 and Legacy in tandem. Ace Combat 2 treats these “pick one of two” missions as Mission #A and Mission #B, while Assault Horizon Legacy has them in sequential numerical order. Meaning that what would be 4A in 2 is just 4 in Legacy, and Mission 4B, coming up next is Mission 5 in Legacy.


|
Guest Commentators: I am joined by the reigning “most-frequent nine-gear crow LP guest commentator” champion CJacobs for the vanilla AC2 video, and by the reigning “most-frequent having nine-gear crow guest comment on Force Unleashed II” champion Trizophenie in the Legacy version video.




Missions 4/5/4A/4B introduce us to our two wingmen characters. Should we choose, they will be joining us on certain missions (for a small fee) as our number two plane and will fulfill a number of roles tailored to their unique specializations. We can only take out one at a time, but we will get to see both of them in action in due time. They are, in no particular order:


SLASH
Real Name: John Harvard
Callsign(s): Slash, Scarface 2
Age: 33
Sex: Male
Nationality: FCU (Central Usea)
Signature Plane: Player choice
Voice Actor: Uncredited (AC2), Johnny Yong Bosch (AHL, Uncredited)

A veteran of the FCU Air Force’s mercenary division, Harvard was handpicked by Col. Olsen alongside Kei “Edge” Nagase to form the core of Scarface Squadron under Phoenix’s command following the success of Operation Anchorhead Freedom. At the time of his appointment to be Scarface’s number two, he had already flown several missions under Olsen’s command and had come to view him as a surrogate father in the armed forces, even jokingly calling him “Pops”, much to Olsen’s consternation.

His FCUAF personnel dossier describes him as having considerable skill as a pilot, but lacks the temperament to actually lead a flight group in combat, preferring to act in a supporting role instead. In his personal life, Harvard is an avid automotive enthusiast, having bought and restored a number of old cars in his spare time. He even bought a decommissioned aircraft hangar to serve as his garage.

Before joining Scarface squadron, he met and befriended Dr. Yang Tomic, one of the chief engineers of the Stonehenge Turrent Network spaceguard project currently under construction in Delarus. It’s been rumored that Tomic, impressed with Harvard’s flying skills, is headhunting him to join the airspace security squadron for Stonehenge once the Continental War reaches its conclusion.

In terms of gameplay, Slash is programmed to be an aggressive attacker wingman. He will seek out and destroy any target on the battlefield, including red primary targets, allowing you to either complete the mission faster by having double the firepower at your disposal, or allow you to go off and handle secondary objectives or run down Named Aces without worry of losing time to complete the mission.

One last continuity note: in Assault Horizon Legacy the character is named John Herbert, however, John Harvard is referenced in both Ace Combats 04 and 5, and is implied to be the same person, so I’m going with his original name, Legacy be damned in this one instance.



EDGE
Real Name: Kei Nagase
Callsign(s): Edge, Scarface 3 (Scarface 2 in-game)
Age: 20
Sex: Female
Nationality: FCU (Far Eastern Usea)
Signature Plane: Player choice
Voice Actor: Uncredited (AC2), Cristina Vee (AHL, Uncredited, Unverified)

A member of the storied Nagase family, Kei joined the FCUAF’s mercenary division shortly after the outbreak of the Continental War and was assigned to Scarface Squadron as its number 3 pilot by Col. Olsen after seeing her flying skills in action when she bested a veteran ace in a training exercise quite handily. She is fighting to put an end to the war to stop the suffering the Rebel coup has inflicted upon her homeland.

Cold and tactical by nature, she places precision and duty above all else while on the battlefield, and is ready to step and take charge over any situation to get the job done should it be required of her. As a result, she can be quite stinging at times in her interactions with others, earning the TAC name “Edge” thanks to her sharp tongue.

Beyond that, she wishes for the war to be over quickly and decisively so she can return to her civilian life and her true passion, which was upended by the coup d’état; she was training to be a commercial airline pilot before the outbreak of the war.

From a gameplay perspective, Edge is geared towards a supporting role as opposed to Slash. She will focus mainly on keeping the white air and ground optional targets busy to keep you covered while you focus on the mission objectives. She will very rarely pursue Named Aces, but I have seen her bag one on a fluke occasion.

Beyond that, “Kei Nagase” as an entity is effectively Ace Combat’s franchise mascot, alongside the F/A-22 Raptor. Ace Combat 2’s Nagase shares a name, callsign, and vauge resemblance to Ace Combat 5’s deuteragonist, Kei “Edge” Nagase, and a recurring character in Ace Combat: Infinity. The promotional blog run by Project Aces for the Japanese version of Ace Combat: Assault Horizon is also called “Project Nagase” and features yet another version of Kei Nagase as its mascot/pinup girl.

The Ridge Racer franchise, also produced by Namco, features the character of Reiko Nagase, who bears a strong resemblance to the various Kei Nagases, and has been stated (somewhere, I don’t exactly know where) to be the older sister of Ace Combat 5’s Kei Nagase (AC2’s Nagase is implied to be a distant cousin of theirs). Because the Ridge Racer franchise is semi-jokingly implied to also be set on Strangereal.

Functionally speaking, every Kei Nagase in the Ace Combat multiverse is their own separate character, not unlike the Nurse Joys and Officer Jennys of the Pokémon universe, like I jokingly say in the video. That said, AC2’s Nagase will be making a cameo appearance later in series, so keep your eyes out for her.





Tin Castle
The fortress complex at the base of the Amber Mountains on the Erusea-San Salvacion border is one of many such old keeps that dot the Usean continent. They are a holdover from the medieval colonization of Usea by Kingdom of Sapin. The Sapish settlers constructed these castles to guard against the native Usean peoples, who tried in vain to drive them off the continent. When the Sapish Empire collapsed two centuries later, many of the castles fell into disrepair as Sapin relinquished its hold on the territories it had once laid claim to across the planet. The nation of San Salvacion was one of the last countries on Earth to formally cut its ties with the Sapish monarchy and declare its independence. To this day, much of its population is of direct Sapish descent.

Many of the old castles, including the fortress codenamed “the Keep”, have been named official historical sites by the FCU allied government and restored and retrofitted with electricity and modern heating and plumbing systems. Some such facilities have been converted into military installations, and have been occupied by the URF to act as fortress encampments along their eastern frontline.

Beyond that, this mission possibly takes its name from a location and chapter title in L. Frank Baum's The Road to Oz, the fifth book in the Oz series. The Tin Castle is the home of Nick Chopper, better known as the Tin Woodsman, or simply the Tinman in the book. That's the only real referent I can find to a "tin castle" in my research. That said, there's also a bed and breakfast house modeled in the shape of a castle and covered in tin sheet metal called Solomon's Castle located in--where the gently caress else--Florida, owned, operated, and constructed by the "DaVinci of Debris", artist Howard Solomon.




Aircraft featured in Mission 4A / 5: Operation Tin Castle


F-117A Nighthawk
Manufacturer: Lockheed Corporation
Role: Stealth bomber
Manufactured: 1981–????
Status: Retired (2008)
Primary Operators: United States
Quick Facts:
  • I didn’t give this one a write up in Zero, so here it is.
  • Unlocked by clearing Mission 9 of AC2 and Mission 7 of AHL on your second playthrough, or by completing 2 Extra Missions.
  • Has mid-range stats, good for the mid-game.
  • Officially revealed to the public in 1988, much of its design and operation information is still a closely guarded secret.
  • Participated heavily in the first Gulf War.
  • Phased out in the mid-2000s in favor of the F/A-22 Raptor.
  • In the real world, the Nighthawk is strictly a bomber, possessing no means of engaging in air-to-air combat, including an internal-mounted gun, which real F-117As never had.
  • Player controlled F-117A not actually stealth and are visible to enemy radar, while enemy F-117As will fade in and out on the radar thanks to their stealth technology.



REPEAT OFFENDERS
  • F-16C Fighting Falcon
  • A4 Skyhawk
  • Mirage 2000D
  • AH-64 Apache
  • MiG-29 Fulcrum
  • Su-37 Terminator (Legacy only)




[AC2]


Medal: Ricochet
Awarded for: Shooting down enemy Ace Ricochet in Mission 4A.
Description: N/A


    Ricochet
  • Plane: MiG-29 Fulcrum
  • Game: Ace Combat 2
  • Mission 4A
  • Spawn conditions: Appears by default.


[LEGACY]


    Ricochet
  • Plane: Su-37 Terminator
  • Game: Assault Horizon Legacy
  • Mission 4
  • Spawn conditions: Flies due north of the main castle. Will turn and retreat south when engaged, otherwise will remain in the same general area.



AC2


Tracks featured in Mission 4A:

DISC 1


ACAHL


Tracks featured in Mission 4:

DISC 1

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Apr 18, 2018

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007

I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

nine-gear crow posted:


EDGE
Real Name: Kei Nagase

That name sounds fami-

nine-gear crow posted:

The Ridge Racer franchise, also produced by Namco, features the character of Reiko Nagase, who bears a strong resemblance to the various Kei Nagases, and has been stated (somewhere, I don’t exactly know where) to be the older sister of Ace Combat 5’s Kei Nagase (AC2’s Nagase is implied to be a distant cousin of theirs). Because the Ridge Racer franchise is semi-jokingly implied to also be set on Strangereal.

Oooh

By the way:

hackbunny posted:

How are the analog controls in AC2, by the way? anyone tried them? I tried to emulate a negcon with a dual-shock clone once but man, talk about awkward

AC2 actually supports the dual-analog pad :aaa: I didn't know it even existed at the time AC2 came out. So of course now I have to replay it :v:

Lunethex
Feb 4, 2013

Me llamo Sarah Brandolino, the eighth Castilian of this magnificent marriage.

Trizophenie posted:

Yeah, when you use it it fires like 5ish seconds of bullets like the rocket pod.

Have a short video of it, it's at the end. (also have that barrel roll you you wanted Lunethex).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_hx7ewOQyw
Youtube

I've been playing Warhammer games religiously so my response is delayed until now.

My repsonse: :neckbeard:

Ashsaber
Oct 24, 2010

Deploying Swordbreakers!
College Slice
Huh, I had forgotten they reused the final boss music from Joint Assault here, and I had no idea it had been renamed. But yeah, that's definitely Sulejmani's Shame.

Kadorhal
Jun 3, 2013

Look, just sign the stupid petition. I've got stuff to do.
Is it just me or is AHL's Ricochet paint scheme essentially Yellow Squadron with shades of pink instead? Like that's the kind of thing you could make in five minutes Assault Horizon, assuming it lets you repaint DLC schemes (I didn't bother with it enough to see for myself).

Also, Scarface One is officially a war criminal in the same manner as Naked Snake. Gotta take out that food supply so the planes in the next two maps over are too hungry to fly properly.
what do you mean that isn't how this game works? shut up!


Anyway, I apparently didn't do a write-up on the F-117 in the last thread either, so here we go.
The F-117 began life in the 1970s, based on the "Have Blue" proof-of-concept that was designed based on the results of a computer program which calculated a design with the smallest radar cross-section possible - a design that was nicknamed the "Hopeless Diamond" because it looked so weird and incapable of actual flight. Both Have Blue prototypes were lost to mechanical problems during testing, but the program was still declared a success and the F-117 started production. It was a black project until 1988, but nevertheless by the time it was revealed to the public the thing had become the stuff of legends, with people everywhere knowing about "the stealth fighter" that totally had poo poo like complete invisibility and Mach 5-capable engines with lasers or whatever the gently caress people thought back then - when it was revealed, it was given an F- designation despite having no capability for air-to-air combat simply for the propaganda value. However different the myths and the real thing were, it was still a rather capable craft - of 59 production models, only one was shot down over Serbia in '99 when a SAM battery got lucky and saw a radar spike from its open bomb bay. The stealth aspects came at the cost of operational ability, however - being a stealth aircraft, it had to carry all its ordnance internally, which due to its size left it only room for two bombs in its bomb bay. External fuel tanks couldn't be carried without compromising stealth either, but that wasn't as much of an issue because the craft was capable of mid-air refueling - the record for constant flight time by a single-seat craft, eighteen and a half hours, was set by a flight of F-117s in their first deployment as they flew from Holloman AFB in New Mexico all the way to Kuwait.
I mentioned the story about patrolling F-16 pilots finding an F-117 in flight testing and thinking they saw a UFO in the last thread, but there's another story that one of the prototypes lost half of its tailplane during a test flight. The fly-by-wire software was incredibly robust thanks to the design being inherently unstable on all three axes, so much that the pilot had no idea part of the plane flew off until someone on the ground told him. Nicknames for the craft included "Goblin" (sometimes prefixed "Wobblin", a holdover from the Have Blue prototypes being noticeably unstable at low speeds), and among the Saudis in Desert Storm, "Shaba" (Arabic for 'ghost').
Also, fun story: the exact same day the F-117 was publicly revealed, MicroProse released F-19 Stealth Fighter, based on what people thought the "stealth fighter" could do. A 1991 remake/sequel added the actual F-117 alongside the fictional F-19; flying the F-117 made for an easier mission as it was easier to fly stealthily and just focus on your primary target, while picking the F-19 made for a more exciting mission since you could engage enemy aircraft.


As well, have the next entry in the cut AC2 Assault Record!
#002 - Ricochet

Jasón Alazraqui
Male, 35, Usean
MiG-29A Fulcrum
Operation Tin Castle: Killed in Action

Born in Sapin to parents who moved across the ocean to Usea when he was only a few years old. Constant teasing from other children led him to resent his place of birth, and in turn any talk of an alliance with them or their neighbors, so he joined the Rebellion. Shot down over a front base situated around an old castle, debris from another plane shot down shortly afterwards hit his parachute and set it on fire; his body was found curled up in a sort of pinball shape, apparently trying to find a surface to roll on to reduce injury. An autopsy revealed most of his bones were pulverised on impact.

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Kadorhal posted:

only one was shot down over Serbia in '99 when a SAM battery got lucky and saw a radar spike from its open bomb bay.

From what I recall on discussions on TFR that only happened because the US Airforce got cocksure about themselves and kept reusing the same flightpath and the commander of the SAM battery getting smart and realizing where to look for the hole in the sky so to speak.

InfinityComplex
Feb 5, 2011

Nothing better than swinging around a little girl like a flail.
Cipher is secretly Nagase and she hates losing her flight buddies because of Pixy and PJ.

BAD JOKE OVER.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

InfinityComplex posted:

Cipher is secretly Nagase and she hates losing her flight buddies because of Pixy and PJ.

BAD JOKE OVER.

I think even a Knight Cipher would be a little more jaded when it comes to wingmen now seeing as how one of them joined a terrorist organization and repeatedly tried to kill him, and the other one... was PJ.

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007

I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Cooked Auto posted:

From what I recall on discussions on TFR that only happened because the US Airforce got cocksure about themselves and kept reusing the same flightpath and the commander of the SAM battery getting smart and realizing where to look for the hole in the sky so to speak.

I'll expand further: the bomb bay was the only known vulnerability of the F-117. They knew perfectly that as long as it was open, the airplane was visible on targeting radar, and as soon as a modern missile gets a radar lock, you're as good as dead because unlike in Ace Combat, the fuckers are deadly even when they detonate at a distance and pretty much infallible. Therefore, if an F-117 pilot got a radar warning, he had to abort immediately, close the bomb bay and haul rear end. Getting the window of opportunity just right to preempt the pilot's reactions was the hard part, and it took impressive intelligence work and a special early warning radar (the standard radar, tuned to a longer wavelength - less precise, but it could see through stealth, and through grueling AA drills the Serbians knew NATO radar warning systems didn't pick that wavelength), but it worked. The intelligence network used by Serbians included spies in Italy who called Serbia when they saw the planes take off from the Aviano airbase

hackbunny fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 29, 2016

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

hackbunny posted:

as soon as a modern missile gets a radar lock, you're as good as dead because unlike in Ace Combat, the fuckers are deadly even when they detonate at a distance and pretty much infallible.

While in reality missiles (both SAM and Air to Air) are significantly more effective than in AC, this is a pretty massive overstatement. The SAM battery that shot down the F-117A in '98 was a 40 year old, obsolete S-125 Neva (SA-3). While I'd never say it's easy to evade, fact is SAM launches in combat situations have a horrendously low pK ratio. (NB: SA-3 kill radius is also only about 10m; compare with the SA-2 which has a 60m+ kill radius at typical bomber altitudes and 200+ at U2 altitudes. )

Put it this way. The SA-3 was first entered into service in 1961. Due to political reasons, the Soviets did not ship it to Vietnam for use in the war. But we can compare it with other, similar SAMs from the Vietnam era. In 1965, the most successful year of the Vietnam War for SAM launches, 194 launches for 11 US aircraft downed equates to about a 5.67% pK. As SAM launches increased, this number dropped significantly - hovering in the 1-3% range (4244 launches against 49 downed aircraft for 1.15% in 1972).

In the Falklands, the British achieved only a 13% pK on their SAM launches against lovely, nonstealthy Argentine, none of which were equipped with countermeasures and none of which had RWRs.

In Kosovo/Yugoslavia, even including the F-117A, the overall pK was less than 0.5% (well over 800 launches, 2 downed aircraft). BTW the launcher that downed the F-117A fired two missiles; the second one never acquired and flew off into the wilderness.

As you can see, the actual, in-combat pK ratio is far from "infallible". Between jamming, evasive maneuvers designed to deplete the missile's energy, SEAD/DEAD, terrain masking, and countermeasures, SAM launches are not a guaranteed death sentence by any means.

-e- in researching this answer, I totally did not know that a second F-117 was (allegedly) damaged by a SAM in Yugoslavia as well and written off. If that's true, that would make 3 downed aircraft for 800+ launches. Still under a half a percent.

-e- Have a video of the Package Q raid in Iraq, '91, where a U.S. F-16, callsign Stroke 3, evades 6 SAMs (likely SA-2's) in a row. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uh4yMAx2UA

Leif. fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 30, 2016

radintorov
Feb 18, 2011
The way Zoltán Dani shot down that F-117 was pretty impressive and as hackbunny mentioned, HUMINT played a role in this along with the US getting complacent: the air corridor above which the F-117 was shot down had been used in the previous sorties and since they went pretty smoothly the flight did not have a SEAD escort; spies in Italy let them know when the aircrafts took off and observers on the ground below the strike route were put in place to give early warning.
Knowing when and where the aircrafts would pass through allowed him to position the battery in the right place to illuminate the area where they would be, and while the older radars were less accurate, they were also less affected by the radar-absorbing coating of the F-117.
All these factors lead to the first combat loss of an F-117A.

radintorov fucked around with this message at 01:45 on May 30, 2016

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013
Destruction of the Off Shore Oil Field

Mission 4B: Operation Opera House – April 14th, 1998
Mission 5: Operation Opera House (Legacy Verison)

Overview: Scarface Squadron is dispatched to cripple the Rebels’ offshore fuel base, Opera House.

|
Guest Commentators: For the second time in a row I am joined by CJacobs for the vanilla AC2 video, and by Cirvante and Evie in the Legacy version.





Opera House
Located in the center of Axel Bay between Erusea, Delarus, and Ugellas, the Opera House oil drilling platform complex is one of a number of privately operated offshore facilities dotting the oil-rich southern coast of Usea. The URF has commandeered the facility and is using it to power their war machine. They are also in the process of arming and fortifying the oil rigs in an attempt to turn Opera House into a massive naval station and sea fort. Disabling Opera House’s production capabilities and retaking the complex will effectively grind the URF’s war efforts in western Usea to a halt.

While the name “Opera House” has come to refer to the entire Gunter Sound drilling and refinery complex as a whole, only the central facility itself actually bears the name Opera House.



Aircraft featured in Mission 4B / 5: Operation Opera House


Su-25 Frogfoot
Manufacturer: Sukohi
Role: Close air support fighter
Manufactured: 1978–Present
Status: In service
Primary Operators: Russia, Ukraine, North Korea
Quick Facts:
  • Considered one of the “Extra” planes in both AC2 and Legacy.
  • Unlocked by clearing Extra Mission 5 in AC2 and Mission 8 in Legacy.
  • Only appears in Ace Combat 2 and Assault Horizon Legacy.
  • Designed to provide close air support to Soviet ground troops.
  • Tailored to low-altitude, low-speed flying.
  • Participated drat near every overseas conflict of the last 30 years including the Russian war against the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, the Gulf War, the invasion of Georgia, and the current conflict in Syria.
  • Has a two seater variant (seen in AC2 only).
  • Is roughly the Russian equivalent / counter to the A-10 Thunderbolt II.



REPEAT OFFENDERS
  • MiG-21bis Fishbed
  • F-16 Fighting Falcon
  • Mirage 2000D
  • F-117A Nighthawk




[AC2]


Medal: Danger Cowboy
Awarded for: Shooting down enemy Aces D-Cowboy in Mission 4B.
Description: N/A


    Danger Cowboy
  • Plane: Su-25 Frogfoot (x2)
  • Game: Ace Combat 2
  • Mission 4B
  • Spawn conditions: Appears by default.


[LEGACY]


    Danger Cowboy
  • Plane: F-117A Nighthawk
  • Game: Assault Horizon Legacy
  • Mission 5
  • Spawn conditions: Flies past the northern-most cluster of targets and will quickly retreat eastward and despawn if not killed quick enough.



AC2


Tracks featured in Mission 4A:

DISC 1


ACAHL


Tracks featured in Mission 4:

DISC 1

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jun 28, 2016

hackbunny
Jul 22, 2007

I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Leif. posted:

In the Falklands, the British achieved only a 13% pK on their SAM launches against lovely, nonstealthy Argentine, none of which were equipped with countermeasures and none of which had RWRs.

No idea it was this low. But air-to-air missiles are significantly deadlier, aren't they? I mean with current missiles you can literally shoot backwards

nine-gear crow posted:

Su-25 Frogfoot
  • Only appears in Ace Combat 2 and Assault Horizon Legacy.

I could swear it was in AH too

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

hackbunny posted:

I could swear it was in AH too

The Su-25TM is in Assault Horizon (and Infinity), the standard 25 is 2 and Legacy :eng101:

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


hackbunny posted:

No idea it was this low. But air-to-air missiles are significantly deadlier, aren't they? I mean with current missiles you can literally shoot backwards
I think air to air missiles would change the hit rate only according to the situation they are used in, fired at long range when turning and burning would make an automatic dodge they wouldn't have the best hit rate, fired in a dogfight when reaction time will be scarce, they'd be far deadlier.

Anyways, modern missiles would have better hit rates since technology now allows people to make deadlier missiles because they aren't as easily fooled by countermeasures, for example you can make missiles with IR cameras that will actually get images of their target and compare frame to frame to make sure they are tracking the same object rather than feed a transfer function from a lovely rotating IR sensor like in really early missiles.

I think off-angle targeting (I think in militarese / pilotese it is "off-bore targeting") is more of an improvement in plane avionics and perhaps missile propellants so they still have some energy after turning away sharply (if they are fired close in).

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




Kadorhal posted:

#002 - Ricochet
[...] his body was found curled up in a sort of pinball shape, apparently trying to find a surface to roll on to reduce injury. An autopsy revealed most of his bones were pulverised on impact.

Man, season 3 of Lucha Underground sounds like it's gonna be loving grim.

Dreamsicle
Oct 16, 2013

biosterous posted:

Man, season 3 of Lucha Underground sounds like it's gonna be loving grim.

Is Scarface One Mil Muertes or Matanza?

Inglonias
Mar 7, 2013

I WILL PUT THIS FLAG ON FREAKING EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT IS SYMBOLIC AS HELL SOMEHOW

Because of your LP, crow, I busted out my old PS2 and replayed through AC4 and AC5 (Never bought Zero, sadly)

drat, those games are a lot of fun. Their plots are so stupid, but goddamn, are they fun.

Kadorhal
Jun 3, 2013

Look, just sign the stupid petition. I've got stuff to do.
Huh, I always thought the aces were Diamond Cowboy in AC2, but now that we're actually here I can't find anything supporting that other than a line from a fanfic.
I grabbed a screenshot of them in the model viewer myself if anyone's curious and can't wait.


Anyway, since we're not going to see the original Su-25 again after these games I might as well do the write-up for it now. As mentioned, the Su-25 is essentially the Russian equivalent to the A-10, and as such is used for the same sort of role. It was often nicknamed the "Grach" (Rook) by infantry owing to its outspread wings and its tendency to hover protectively over them. It's supposedly not quite as survivable as the A-10, but between an armored enclosure around the pilot and titanium blast panels near the exhausts, it's drat close - I've read that one Su-25 apparently took hits from three Stingers in one flight and still made it back to base in one piece. It doesn't carry as many weapons as the A-10 can, but in return it's faster, able to just about reach supersonic speeds.


And next, our new ace(s).
#003/004 - D. Cowboy

Page & Joseph Falkberg
Male, 41/39, Aurelian
Su-25 Frogfoot
Operation Opera House: Shot Down

Former Aurelian Air Force pilots who jumped at the chance to join the Erusean Air Force shortly before the rebellion began. They were promptly sent to defend a captured oil facility that was quickly and easily retaken by the Scarface Squadron, with all of its escorts destroyed. Both promptly retired from flying, Page deciding to become a wrestler in a Los Canas-based promotion and Joseph starting up a health and fitness center in his native Aurelia.

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

hackbunny posted:

No idea it was this low. But air-to-air missiles are significantly deadlier, aren't they? I mean with current missiles you can literally shoot backwards


I could swear it was in AH too

Yes and no.Generally speaking, yes; but depends on positioning, type of missile, circumstances, ROE etc. You might not ever know that an EO guided missile is coming at you.

Other times you get this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0bA-PhW9I.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013


:siren::siren:Mission 5 - Opera House [LEGACY VERSION]:siren::siren:

Kadorhal
Jun 3, 2013

Look, just sign the stupid petition. I've got stuff to do.
Not really related to anything in this video in particular, but learning that the default paint schemes in this game keep that red scar/arrow thing on the right side of the nose makes me extremely happy.

Also, Infinity just added some radio messages from this game to the supply store today. Now if only they'd add "Slash" and "Edge" as nicknames, instead of letting those jerks from the campaign hog them.


fake EDIT: wait a minute, is that Johnny Yong Bosch as Slash?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Kadorhal posted:

fake EDIT: wait a minute, is that Johnny Yong Bosch as Slash?

Not to my knowledge, but then again, the English cast for Legacy is entirely uncredited. The only one I felt comfortable actually crediting in the various write ups is Richard Epcar as Keynote. Because all you need to do is listen to him say ten words and you can tell it's Richard Epcar :buddy:.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Octatonic
Sep 7, 2010

InfinityComplex posted:

Cipher is secretly Nagase and she hates losing her flight buddies because of Pixy and PJ.

BAD JOKE OVER.

This is now my opinion. Cipher has loosened up a bit in her old age (of 20- is she lying about her age, or was she a child soldier? ace combat is anime enough for either) enough to take easy side jobs and speak while she's working, if only to troll the flight lead.

Octatonic fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 1, 2016

  • Locked thread