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Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
I thought this was worth making a thread for, since the book is back to a regular release schedule now after a long scheduling hiatus. So yes, here's a thread for Sonic the Hedgehog's comic, published by Archie comics, and currently being (mostly) written by one Ian Flynn.

Wait, what? Sonic the Hedgehog still has a comic book?

Yes, actually. Beginning in the 1990's, Archie Sonic originally started as a hodgepodge of elements from the then current Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog and ABC's Sonic the Hedgehog Saturday Morning Cartoon show, or "SatAM" as it was widely known. While most of the characters and setting were taken from SatAM, the tone was much closer to that of Adventures, or "AOSTH", focusing on slapstick and gag plots. However, the comic quickly took on a tone more similar to that of SatAM, developing its own characters and storylines and deviating very strongly from both its source material and the games. This culminated in a four part story called "Endgame", where Robotnik was killed off, which while well received at the time is now universally considered to be very terrible.

After this, the book's history becomes even more storied. It launched a spinoff centering on Knuckles the Echidna, helmed by the guy most give credit for turning the book "serious", Ken Penders, that ran for 30 some issues, while the main book continued, primarily under the pen of Karl Bollers. Eventually, Robotnik returned through an alternate robotic version of him assuming his identity (it's a really long, convoluted story), Knuckles was cancelled, the book was forced to share real estate between Penders' and Bollers' shared storylines, and the art really, really, REALLY started to go to poo poo. What's more, Bollers and Penders would often undermine each other, the editor Justin Gabrie was continually asleep at the wheel, and the book entered what most of its fans consider "the dark ages". This reached a head with the much aligned "Mobius 25 Years Later" storyline, which many regarded as painfully boring, and resulted in a conflict between Bollers and Gabrie's successor, Mike Pellerito, and Penders over whether this would be the canonical future of the book. Needless to say, by the end of this time period, Bollers and Penders both left the book on poor terms.

Enter Ian Flynn, who many consider the savior of the title. Beginning with issue #160, Flynn revitalized the book by tying up old storylines, re-imagining older more maligned characters into much better received versions, and creating new ones that were much better received while also managing to adapt more elements of the games into the stories. With better writing came better artistic talent, beginning primarily with the Yuji Uekawa-inspired pencils of Tracey Yardley, with other talents such as Ben Bates and Tyson Hesse coming later. The book also gained a spinoff, Sonic Universe, focusing on corners of the Sonic Universe different from Sonic's usual stomping grounds. As the book rounded out its 200th issue, it seemed its fortunes had completely turned around, and to this day it still holds the record for longest licensed comic book based on a video game. It also led to Ian taking the helm of other Archie action titles, the most notable being the recent Mega Man series.

That's when things went to poo poo again, and the reason for it was, again, Ken Penders.

Does this have something to do with the reboot I heard about?

Yep. Sometime after leaving, the game Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood was released, which included some not insignificant influence from Ken Penders' Knuckles series. In response, Penders registered copyrights for all of his stories and characters, and sued both Sega and Activision. In response, Archie sued Penders themselves, with the long resulting legal battle focusing primarily upon the nature of Penders' work for hire contract and whether he had any legal claim to the work he'd done. While many believe Penders' deserves royalty payments and compensation for his work, most fans lost sympathy for him due to his assertion that the characters were independent creations who had no influence from Sonic or Sega's creations, and his constant derision towards the book's current talent. Needless to say, due to combination of incompetence on the part of Archie's legal team and Penders dragging this out as long as possible, the parties were all forced to settle, with Penders gaining creative control over his entire body of work.

Needless to say, this set a bad state of affairs for Archie's creative team. Not only had Penders' characters worked their way into most of the book's storylines, the door was now open for many of its past creators to do the exact same thing he did. Realizing they'd been backed into a corner, they decided the only thing to really do now was focus on the elements they and Sega indisputably DID own, which included characters created by Ian Flynn and other writers who joined under his tenure, characters from the games, and anyone from AOSTH and SatAM.

The process of changing everything began in the crossover with the Mega Man series, Worlds Collide, which had Eggman and Dr. Wily doing their best to reshape reality. Though everything gets changed back to normal for Mega Man and co., Eggman's attempt to interrupt Super Sonic in the process of fixing their world leads us to...

The New 252

We now come to the current status quo for the comic, being with issue #252 and the following "Countdown to Chaos" storyline. Sonic reawakens in a reality different from the one he knew, and has to go on a quest to reassemble his fellow Freedom Fighters and let them know what's happened. Eventually, all of the team is gathered, their memories of the old reality are restored (only temporarily), and... they discover that there's no way to go back to the way things used to be. What's more, the stress of loving around with time in space has led to the Earth breaking apart. Does this sound familiar? It should, because we're doing the plot to Sonic Unleashed, complete with the looming threat of Dark Gaia and Sonic being cursed to turn into the Werehog.

Since then, the current storyarc has been focused on putting the planet back together, while also using Unleashed's globetrotting adventure as a way to introduce the elements of the new world. A shorter storyline based on Sonic the Fighters occurs, a trilogy in Sonic Universe pits Knuckles and Shadow against remnants of the Black Arms from Shadow's own game, and we're introduced to new groups of Freedom Fighters in addition to Eggman's subordinates, the Egg Bosses. Oh, and somewhere in there there's another crossover with Mega Man, and the rest of Capcom and Sega called Worlds Unite. The Unleashed storyline recently ended, with the book now moving on to an anniversary storyline titled "Genesis of a Hero", being released alongside a periodic mini-series called "Sonic: Mega Drive", which tells a Classic Sonic-themed original story focusing on Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Eggman.

The new continuity begins in issue #252 and Sonic Universe #55. There's also "Sonic Super Digest", which primarily reprints material from both core books and the now defunct "Sonic Boom" comic, but sometimes there's new content focusing on characters' origins in the new continuity.

Who to know?



The Freedom Fighters

The core cast of the book, consisting of the main characters from the games, Sonic the Hedgehog, Miles "Tails" Prower, Amy Rose, and Cream the Rabbit and her Chao Cheese, along withe core cast from SatAM. In the new continuity, they're a team lead by Sally Acorn, inspired to heroics by Sonic's solo act fighting Eggman in events roughly analogous to the Genesis titles. The non-Sega created members of the group consist of Sally herself, the married couple Antoine D'Coolette and Bunnie Rabbot (because fans would have rioted if the reboot broke them up), the exiled inventor/bruiser Rotor the Walrus, and Nicole, the sentient AI that inhabits Sally's portable computer. Also, Big the Cat is there too.



Speaking of Nicole, it turns out she developed into someone pretty important. Most old school fans would simply remember her as the voice coming from Sally's not-Gameboy, but in the old continuity, she became one of the breakout characters under Ian's pen, gaining her own individuality, and a holographic form to interact with the rest of the cast. In the new continuity, she's revealed to be the result of her "father's" attempt to upload his daughter's brain, only to get a fundamentally new individual in Nicole. Currently, she manifests her avatar form using Power Rings.



Knuckles the Echidna

Otherwise known as "the epicenter of everything bad that happened to this book", Knuckles is fresh from Penders' custody battle and once again the last{?) of the echidnas. Forced to break the Master Emerald again, Knuckles has joined up with the Freedom Fighters to try and reassemble them. He succeeded! Who knows what's next for the echidna?



Chip

A mysterious spirit who lost his memory, encountered by Knuckles and Team Chaotix. He's currently helping Knuckles and the Freedom Fighters put the world back together. He's Light Gaia, pretty much the same as in Unleashed. With the conclusion of the Shattered World Crisis, Chip has, like his game counterpart, retreated back into the Earth's Core with Dark Gaia.



Team Dark

A testament to Ian Flynn's ability to make divisive characters likable. Team Dark, as in the games, consist of Shadow the Hedgehog, Rouge the Bat, and E-123 Omega, and work for the paramilitary organization GUN. Shadow is 50 % less edgy, Omega talks like that killer robot from the Star Wars RPGs that everyone loves, and Rouge is pretty much the same.



Team Chaotix

Espio the Chameleon, Vector the Crocodile, and Charmy Bee. They're detectives you may or may not want on your side.



Silver the Hedgehog

That character from the game everyone thinks is a totally original idea to make a Let's Play of, or the furry version of Trunks from DBZ. Universally agreed to be better handled in Archie than in the games, Silver's current role in the comics is travelling through time and dimensions closing "Genesis Portals", distortions created by Eggman screwing with the fabric of reality. His origins were recently chronicled in the Sonic Universe arc, "The Silver Age", where he gained two supporting cast members in Gold the Tenrec and a new version of Heinrich von Schlemmer from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog.



Blaze the Cat

The guardian of the Sol Emeralds, from another world. With the reboot, her dimension is the only one that remains of the multiverse that once existed prior to Worlds Collide. Compared to other characters in this book, she's the last changed from her game counterpart. As in the games, her sidekick is Marine the Raccoon. Due to a Sega mandate and his continuity being confusing as hell, her archnemesis, Eggman Nega cannot appear directly in the book.



Mighty the Armadillo and Ray the Flying Squirrel

Otherwise known as "the two characters not even Sega remembers anymore", Ray and Mighty were members of the Chaotix in the old continuity before the reboot made them the team from the current Sega games. Mighty seems to have a history with them however, and he and Ray recently showed up to help Sonic learn to control his new Werehog form.



Honey the Cat

Everyone's formerly dummied out bit character from an obscure fighting game spinoff, Honey is now a part of the comic universe. A fashion designer, Honey's hobbies include fighting tournaments, and conning Freedom Fighters into helping her label.



Chaos and Tikal

From Sonic Adventure, Chaos and Tikal are spirits who reside in the Master Emerald. In the Shattered World Crisis, they re-emerged to help Chip discover his identity as Light Gaia (Tikal) and to keep the oceans from draining due to the world being broken up.



King Nigel Acorn

Sally's dad and ruler of the Kingdom of Acorn. He was a dick in the old continuity but now he's a pretty swell guy. Yes, his name is seriously Nigel now, and yes, it's a nod to "The Wild Thornberrys" cuz his voice actor in SatAM was Tim Curry.



Desert Raiders/Shamar Freedom Fighters

A group of Freedom Fighters who are really working with Nephthys the Vulture, the local Egg Boss of the Midest Region, to create a stalemate in the area, out of the belief that Eggman and Sonic's conflict just keeps escalating in their attempts to outdo the other. They consist of Spike the Porcupine, Sonar the Fennec, and Trevor Burrows the Mole. If you think they look like Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, that's on purpose.



Lupe the Wolf

Along-time ally of the Freedom Fighters since they helped save her village from Eggman after Lupe lost her father. Since she appeared in SatAM, she's the only member of the Wolf Pack to survive the Pendering.



Shijin Warriors

The Freedom Fighters of Chun-nan. Consisting of Dulcy, from the SatAM cartoon, designed to look more like a Sega character and not a weird reptilian kangaroo. Her team consists of Ex-Egg Soldier Jian the Tiger, temple matron Bunker the Tortoise, and the young and eager Cinder the Pheasant.



Relic the Pika and Fixit

Knuckles' new supporting cast. Relic is an archaeologist who wants to unearth the secrets of Angel Island, and Fixit is her robotic helper she found while exploring. Fixit sure looks a lot like Emerl from Sonic Battle, huh?

Bad Guys



Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik

Fresh off his whirlwind bromance with Dr. Albert Wily and destroying multiple realities, we have the main villain of the series. Since Ian's tenure, Ian Flynn has focused on the more threatening aspects of Eggman's character while not losing sight of the lovable comedic elements of his game counterpart. Less of "noble demon", Archie's Eggman is more of a vicious manchild, toying with both foe and underling alike while he works at trying to conquer the world - he says it makes it more challenging. He's had a number of sidekicks over the years, but like his game counterpart, is currently aided by Orbot and Cubot.



Metal Sonic

The guy who was Sonic's evil twin before Shadow showed up like the idea was new. In the old continuity, Metal was a mostly cannon fodder drone, save for a few versions of him that gained independence. The new continuity restores him to being a unique individual who loyally serves Eggman, while also letting him keep his personality and desire to surpass Sonic.



Dr. Julian Snively

In the old continuity, he was Colin "Snively" Kintobor, and Robotnik's nephew. His entire role in the story was an attempt to betray and/or free himself from his uncle's control, only to end up yanking his chain in exceedingly depressing ways. In the new continuity, he's now a former collaborator of Eggman's and unrelated to him, working with G.U.N. and seemingly reformed. Yeah, none of the readers are buying it.



Team Hooligan

Consisting of every other character that Sega has forgotten about, Nack the Weasel, Bark the Polar Bear, and Bean the Dynamite (Duck) are a trio of mercenaries that are often hired by Eggman. Since the reboot started, they've tried (and failed) to collect a Chaos Emerald, and then bungled a job to get another during the arc based on Sonic the Fighters. Nack constantly gets his butt kicked, Bark doesn't talk, and Bean is "pretty much every Looney Tunes character ever made".



Breezie the Hedgehog

A re-imagining of one of the more memorable characters from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, Breezie is no longer a furry robot version of Jessica Rabbit and now a self-made media mogul and casino proprietor. She employs fellow AOSTH alumni Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts along with other cast off toys from Eggman's army, and has a history with Metal Sonic.



Eclipse the Darkling

The last surviving member of the Black Arms, the aliens who helped to create Shadow. Described by Ian Flynn as what Shadow would be if he had been raised by said aliens and without the "hedgehog", he's driven to avenge his race and can transform into a monstrous form in addition to being able to counter Shadow's Chaos Control. If this description sounds like every self-insert character ever, it's mostly balanced by him being an enormous loser who gets beat up all the time and loves his pets.



Walter and Wendy Naugus

You may recognize "Walter" as a minor villain from Sonic SatAM. You probably don't recognize Wendy as Witchcart, the villain of an obscure game called Tails Skypatrol. Well, in the new continuity, they're related, because Archie can do whatever they want with SatAM holdovers and Sega probably doesn't remember Wendy exists. In this version, the brother and sister team are trolls with the ability to manipulate crystals. Like his SatAM counterpart, Naugus has history with Sally's father, King Acorn, and recently lost his powers, forcing him to use Master Emerald shards to regain them. At the end of "Eggman's Dozen", Wendy betrayed her brother to join Eggman as his new Egg Boss, and Walter went on to get his magic back... only to get his rear end incarcerated by G.U.N.



Egg Bosses

The generals of the "Eggman Empire", consisting of largely Archie-original characters and the Battle Kukku Army from Tails' Adventure on the Game Gear. There are too many to name right now, but the gist of them is that they oversee areas Eggman has either conquered or attempting to conquer. Their ranks include:

  • Tundra the Walrus - Boss of the Artika region, and Rotor Walrus's father. Hates Ahklut.
  • Mordred Hood - Boss of the Eurish region, and a literal snake.
  • Axel the Water Buffalo - Boss of the Efrika region, who leads a game of vehicle-riding marauders and follows Eggman out of fear.
  • Nephthys the Vulture - Boss of the Midesta region. She's secretly working with the Shamar Freedom Fighters to create a stalemate between the Eggman Empire and freedom fighters in the region.
  • Thunderbolt the Chinchilla - Boss of the Soumerca region. She's madly fixated on Eggman. Basically a Pikachu.
  • Cassia and Clove the Pronghorns - Boss of the Northamer Region. Forced to work for Eggman in order to receive treatment for Cassia's disease.
  • Conquering Storm the Lynx - Boss of the Yurashia Region. A holdover from the previous continuity, not much is known about her current incarnation.
  • Maw the Thylacine - The Egg Boss of the Tralius region, and most enigmatic of the Egg Bosses, who believes Eggman can help him change the world to his ideals. Has the creepy power to consume an entire army of badniks.
  • Ahklut the Orca - Egg Boss of the Northern Oceans. Hates Tundra and has psychic powers. Used to be a normal-looking killer whale in the old continuity.
  • Abyss the Squid - Egg Boss of the Souther Oceans. Yarr harr fiddle tee dee, she is a pirate.
  • Battle Lord Kukku XV - Lord of the Battle Bird Armada, who now serve Dr. Eggman. He and his son Speedy hold dominion over the skies... or at least claim to.
  • Wendy Naugus - Troll witch. See above. Currently hunting down mystic artifacts for Eggman.

Useful Links

  • The Archie Sonic Wiki - An (actually decent) database for characters and events from the series both old and new.
  • Bumbleking.com - The website of Ian Flynn, the primary author of the comics and home to "Lost Hedgehog Tales", a retrospective on what Flynn WOULD have done with the old storyline if Ken Penders hadn't hosed everything up. LHT is on hiatus due to current legal proceedings, and the forum has closed down, but you can check out Ian's podcast there as well.
  • Ken Penders' website and twitter account if you hate yourself and want to see what he's doing with the characters that used to be in this book.

Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 12, 2016

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Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
Out Now

quote:



Sonic Mega Drive #1
Sonic spins into a brand new, Classic-styled, SUPER SPECIAL one-shot “Mega Drive”! Join Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy Rose on a brand new adventure—set after the fall of the Death Egg! The nefarious Dr. Eggman is trying to build a new engine of destruction: the MEGADRIVE, and it’s up to Sonic and his whole crew to stop the mad doctor and save the day! Join Sonic and his friends in this special commemorative issue celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the Blue Blur!

quote:



Sonic the Hedgehog #287
Panic in the Sky, Part Four
SONIC BATTLES at the CENTER of the PLANET in "Panic in the Sky" Part Four: This is it -- the cataclysmic clash and ferocious finale to the Shattered World Saga! Super Sonic leads Chip into battle against the dreaded Dark Gaia with the Freedom Fighters at ground zero! With the fate of the world at stake, who will actually be able to make it home?

quote:



Sonic Universe #91
Vector, Espio and Charmy are on the job in “The Case of the Pirate Princess” Part One: The Chaotix are back! Our favorite detectives are hired to find a missing princess from the bottom of the ocean! There will be pirates! There will be ninja! (At least one, anyway.) There will be a car that drives underwater! Don’t miss the beginning of a new, wacky adventure! Featuring cover art by Sonic comics veteran Tracy Yardley and a “Super Sleuths” variant by super-talent Jason Piperberg!

Upcoming

Sonic the Hedgehog

quote:



Sonic the Hedgehog #288
SONIC is BACK in “Genesis of a Hero” Part One: It’s Sonic’s 25th Anniversary and we’re celebrating in style—retro-style that is! See Sonic in his first climactic show-down with Dr. Eggman, straight from the gameplay of the first Sonic the Hedgehog game! But what happens after the battle? And what new force arises once the dust has settled? It’s the story you know with a new twist! Featuring cover art by the legendary Patrick Spaziante and a “Best Buds” variant by the lovely Genevieve FT!



Sonic the Hedgehog #289
The SUPER DUPER DUO of SONIC and TAILS unite in “Genesis of a Hero” Part Two: The 25th Anniversary celebration of Sonic the Hedgehog continues in this retro-action adventure! Sonic has chased Dr. Eggman clear across Westside Island, and now into the skies! Can Sonic and Tails survive a head-on assault of the Wing Fortress? And what sinister secrets lurk beyond the clouds? Featuring cover art by veteran Sonic comic artist Patrick “Spaz” Spaziante and a “High Flying Variant” by jammin’ Jamal Peppers!



Sonic the Hedgehog #290
The Super Sonic Warrior returns in "Genesis of a Hero" Part Three: The 25th anniversary celebration continues with another blast to the past! Which is also to the future, and the past, and back again! When Sonic goes to see the annual return of Little Planet, he’s surprised to find it chained to a mountain! Join us for the exciting adventures of Sonic CD! Featuring cover art by the legendary Patrick Spaziante plus a “Cosmic Eternity” variant by Mr. Sonic comics himself, Tracy Yardley!



Sonic the Hedgehog #291
SONIC and Tails head for ADVENTURE in “Genesis of a Hero” Part Four: Our celebration of the Blue Blur’s 25th anniversary comes to a close with a look back to the most titanic turning point of the Classic Era! Sonic and Tails have been diverted, trapped and attacked all across Angel Island by the mysterious native called “Knuckles!” Now, deep in the heart of the island, they confront Dr. Eggman’s latest minion in an all-out brawl! Featuring cover art by Sonic comics veteran Patrick “Spaz” Spaziante plus a “Sonic VS. Knuckles” variant by long-time Sonic comic colorist, Matt Herms!

Sonic Universe

quote:



Sonic Universe #92
ENTER the DEPTHS of DANGER in “The Case of the Pirate Princess” Part Two: The Chaotix have tracked down the princess of Meropis and the pirates that kidnapped her – but now they’re prisoners as well! And Vector’s daring plan to escape… is to join them?! It’s mysteries and revelations galore as the Chaotix hit the high seas! Featuring cover art by Sonic comics veteran Tracy Yardley and a “Shinobi” variant by monster-talent T-Rex!



Sonic Universe #93
The quirky trio of detectives return in “The Case of the Pirate Princess” Part Three: Say it ain’t so – have the Chaotix gone full pirate?! Tensions run high as loyalties are tested and pasts are explored. And as the crew reaches their destination, will it be treasure they find – or something more sinister? Featuring cover art by Sonic comics extraordinaire Tracy Yardley and a “One for All” variant by super-talent Jennifer Hernandez!



Sonic Universe #94
The PIRATE PLUNDERING reaches its peak in “Case of the Pirate Princess” Finale: The Chaotix Detective Agency’s deep cover in the pirates’ ranks may be too deep to escape! In the heart of a long-lost temple, Cpt. Shellbreaker stands poised to find an ancient power. Can the Chaotix finally rescue Princess Undina? Can they rescue themselves? Or will the Chaotix turning pirates be their saving grace? It all comes to a head in this frantic finale! Featuring cover art and an “Excitement Under the Sea” variant by Mr. Sonic comics, Tracy Yardley!

Other:

quote:



Sonic Mega Drive: The Next Level
Welcome to “The Next Level”: The sequel to the hit Sonic: Mega Drive is here! Picking up right where things left off Sonic, Tails, Amy Rose and Knuckles are on the hunt for the Ancient Gears and on the move to stop Dr. Eggman’s latest scheme! But not everything runs like clockwork when Sonic breaks away to do his own thing. And Dr. Eggman has a certain high-speed robot up his sleeve. You can’t miss out on this exciting new installment in the Sonic Mega Drive series! Featuring cover art by mega-talent Tyson Hesse!

Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 26, 2016

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
Anyway, to get things started... did anyone read the first part of Eggman's Dozen?

We got more of the Egg Bosses, but we dunno much about the new ones besides what animals they are. As a lot of people in the fandom speculated, Akhlut made it into the reboot as an anthropomorphic killer whale instead of a normal one.

I noticed Speedy from the Battle Bird Armada has a decent costume now. That's a plus.


Really, just seeing Ian write Eggman being Eggman is always a plus.

Bonus:

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010

TFRazorsaw posted:


Eclipse the Darkling

The last surviving member of the Black Arms, the aliens who helped to create Shadow. Described by Ian Flynn as what Shadow would be if he had been raised by said aliens and without the "hedgehog", he's driven to avenge his race and can transform into a monstrous form in addition to being able to counter Shadow's Chaos Control.

This is amazing.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
You laugh dude, but Flynn is perfectly aware of how the character would come across. Like I said, he spends most of his time getting beat up. He's a giant nerd trying to be edgy who gets beat up so often it loops around right to being legitimately sad.

Flynn knew exactly how he'd be recieved and played with those expectations.

Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Mar 31, 2016

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

TFRazorsaw posted:

You laugh dude, but Flynn is perfectly aware of how the character would come across. Like I said, he spends most of his time getting beat up. He's a giant nerd trying to be edgy who gets beat up so often it looks around right to being legitimately sad.

Flynn knew exactly how he'd be recieved and played with those expectations.

If Ian Flynn has one real strength as a writer, it's that he's pretty good at making really dumb characters fun by giving them a sense of humor and an actual personality. And honestly, given how dumb all Sonic characters are, that's pretty much the exact quality you need for this comic.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
And then somewhere along the line you actually start to give a drat about them.

I miss a lot of the old characters purely because Ian managed to turn them into something interesting.

Chocolate Teapot
May 8, 2009
I am going to keep tabs on this thread and I know I will hate myself for it.

Opposing Farce posted:

If Ian Flynn has one real strength as a writer, it's that he's pretty good at making really dumb characters fun by giving them a sense of humor and an actual personality. And honestly, given how dumb all Sonic characters are, that's pretty much the exact quality you need for this comic.

One of the worst things about Penders, aside from his descent into madness, was his habitual nature to just flood the comic with tons and tons of characters, which often ended up with a bunch of extraneous palette-swapped OCs just hanging about doing individual jobs like pressing a button or flicking a switch on some unnecessarily complex machine, or they'd just hang about with nothing to do. Guy had no idea how to make a story flow by way of having too many similar looking characters being in different places doing different things, and it quickly became very difficult to follow.

Then Flynn came in and introduced bizarre concepts like making it easy to follow and stories that made sense.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool

quote:

One of the worst things about Penders, aside from his descent into madness, was his habitual nature to just flood the comic with tons and tons of characters, which often ended up with a bunch of extraneous palette-swapped OCs just hanging about doing individual jobs like pressing a button or flicking a switch on some unnecessarily complex machine, or they'd just hang about with nothing to do.

I didn't mind the character as much but I found it dodgy that he made Amy's cousin a guy who looked just like Sonic. Like, that raises far too many questions.

But then, Amy was handled poorly entirely until Ian came on the book.

But no, the most pointless character Penders introduced had to be Nic the Weasel.

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

Chocolate Teapot posted:

One of the worst things about Penders, aside from his descent into madness, was his habitual nature to just flood the comic with tons and tons of characters, which often ended up with a bunch of extraneous palette-swapped OCs just hanging about doing individual jobs like pressing a button or flicking a switch on some unnecessarily complex machine, or they'd just hang about with nothing to do. Guy had no idea how to make a story flow by way of having too many similar looking characters being in different places doing different things, and it quickly became very difficult to follow.

Then Flynn came in and introduced bizarre concepts like making it easy to follow and stories that made sense.

Flynn's been introducing a ton of random side characters since the reboot (the first issue of Eggman's Dozen might be the most egregious example yet, since it adds yet another quirky miniboss trio* on top of the titular dozen) but they all have distinct designs, clear and distinguishable personalities, and well-defined roles in the story so at least they don't blend together into a Penders-style morass of interchangeable furries.

*It looks like they're technically game characters but I mean once you've started pulling on Tails' Skypatrol of all things that's not much of an excuse anymore.

Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Apr 1, 2016

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
well, the Egg Bosses need SOMEONE to fight.

Not to mention, Flynn has to replace two decades' worth of supporting cast and rogues gallery.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta
Grimey Drawer
posting in a sonic comic thread unironically in TYOOL 2016! :suicide:


No but really good OP. Mega Man suckered me into reading the Sonic comic and I found it's surprisingly good. I mean, it's still written for kids but I can deal with that. The masochist in me kinda wants to go back and read the more batshit stuff but I know better.

So like, why did the comic go on hiatus again? Archie run out of money again? heyoooo gently caress you for canceling mega man, archie i'll never forgive you

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
There was a scheduling thing that affected all their books. It's not like Mega Man's hiatus. Most attribute that to Archie not being able to afford to renew the license at current.

Mark Waid has had some choice stuff to say about this debacle, and it all goes back to the previous management being awful. I suspect the ongoing sexual harassment lawsuit against Goldwater's widow has something to do with it too.

Dr. Buttass
Aug 12, 2013

AWFUL SOMETHING
I wanna say your recap of the Genesis arc is wrong but I found it kind of confusing and don't really have enough info to contest you.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I read too many of those Ken Penders comics when I was younger and less discerning. However, they always compared unfavourably with the UK comic (Sonic the Comic) for me, which was my favourite when I was little(r).

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool

Dr. Buttass posted:

I wanna say your recap of the Genesis arc is wrong but I found it kind of confusing and don't really have enough info to contest you.

...? I didn't cover "Genesis" at all.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

TFRazorsaw posted:

Mark Waid has had some choice stuff to say about this debacle, and it all goes back to the previous management being awful.

I would like to read this.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool

Argue posted:

I would like to read this.

Here.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Man, I hate continuity reboots almost as much as I hate putting characters on a bus-the emotional investment is gone. It's be interesting to see what the reboot did to readership.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
Aside from a small, particularly vocal group of people on deviantart who are convinced Ian Flynn is Satan, most people have moved on.

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.
And honestly, if there was ever a comic that really genuinely needed a continuity reset, it was this one.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Why on earth would people blame Flynn? I totally get that the reboot thing was a) Penders' fault and b) pretty much inevitable after the court case. I just find the sudden shifts jarring. I'm curious about actual purchasing numbers- what proportion of the people that "moved on" did so by moving on from the comic.

Opposing Farce posted:

And honestly, if there was ever a comic that really genuinely needed a continuity reset, it was this one.

Enh, Flynn et al were rehabilitating the Night of a Thousand Echidna pretty effectively before the plot device erased and shifted a bunch of characters, memories, relationships, etc. Piecemeal retconning is less likely to make people go "well I guess none of that stuff I read matters".

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 2, 2016

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool

quote:

Why on earth would people blame Flynn?

This is the Sonic fandom, and not just that, the inheritors of SatAM's legacy. This is just what these people DO.

quote:

I'm curious about actual purchasing numbers- what proportion of the people that "moved on" did so by moving on from the comic.

Sales have gone down, but then, Archie's sales have gone down across the board on most of their titles. I don't think it has anything to do with the reboot so much as where the market is going. Archie still treats it as one of their most notable books.

Veotax
May 16, 2006


As a new reader I kinda' appreciate the reboot, I only started reading at Worlds Collide. It was such a neatly told story that it was super easy to get into as someone who hadn't read either comic, sticking to game characters and excising comic characters from both universes was a great idea. Got me into reading both Sonic and Mega Man after that.

I grew up reading the UK comics, never gave much of a thought to the US ones. Only rolling my eyes when I heard the kind of poo poo that Penders was doing. I'm sure if I went back over the UK comics plenty of it will seem dumb now, but the US comics back then sound like a special kind of bullshit. My favourite comparison between the two is how they handled Eggman's re-design in Sonic Adventure, Archie had some weird sounding storyline about him dying and coming back as a robot, while Fleetway just had him put on a new coat.

Anyway, enough making GBS threads on old Archie, I really like these comics.

Worlds Unite sucked though. Utter waste of four months of Mega Man and Sonic Boom before they ended.

EDIT: I mean, I probably would have started reading StH without the reboot anyway (although, not from issue #1 like I did Mega Man) but the reboot made it super easy to get into.

Veotax fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Apr 3, 2016

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

I think one of the reasons Fleetway got away with so much is that, in the end, Sega UK just didn't give a poo poo. Comics have always been a pretty different business in Europe than in America, style-wise and format-wise. Meanwhile, Archie was able to get away with some stuff story-wise, but Sega was hardcore "THIS IS WHAT THE CHARACTER LOOKS LIKE FOR MARKETING PURPOSES NOW, FIX IT", to keep poo poo on-model.

Though one of the biggest breaking points towards the end was a cover of Sonic crying over a marriage invite.



Someone at Sega's marketing noticed this cover, and was like "wait, what the poo poo has been going on over here?", and thus the marketing fist started coming down HARD. Sonic can't cry at all anymore, or be in a relationship with anyone, harsher oversight, all that stuff.

Not exactly a bad thing, but it does show you that one of the reasons Penders got away with this poo poo for so long isn't just that Archie was asleep at the wheel; Sega wasn't doing anything much either. Ian Flynn has gone over the fact that he has a bunch of inexpiable restrictions now that he deals with on a case-by-case basis, that stem from that moment's sudden notice.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
I was never able to get into StC. I just couldn't stand Sonic himself.

Hexmage-SA
Jun 28, 2012
DM
I originally had a longer post here talking about my history with the Sonic comics (read them as a kid until #125) and why the post reboot continuity interests me, but my web browser crashed and I lost about 20 minutes of text so I'm just gonna skip to weird poo poo from the comics pre-reboot:

- "Zone" seemed to be used interchangeably to refer to geographic regions, pocket dimensions and entire parallel universes. Few stories explicitly took place in zones, though one special issue depicted Robotnik in an "unfinished" zone that appeared as a white void with a small section of terrain reminiscent of the games.
- One early issue established a Cosmic Interstate linking many zones (parallel universe variety) together. Entering and travelling along the Cosmic Interstate appeared to be surprisingly easy, allowing Sonic to round up 1000 parallel universe versions of himself. Eventually a group of Zone Cops led by Zonic the Hedgehog appeared to attempt to regulate travel between the zones, but eventually the whole concept seemed to be abandoned.
- Robotnik died in issue 50 and was later replaced in issue 75 by Robo-Robotnik, a completely roboticized version from another zone. It is this version of Robotnik that assumed the Sonic Adventure redesign of the character.
- Originally, Mobius seemed to be inhabited mostly by humanoid animals called "Mobians". It was later revealed that Robotnik was an exiled member of the human-like Overlander race, which had fought the Mobians in a war (which was seriously started after the young son of the Mobian ruler died taking a bullet to save an ordinary, presumably unintelligent bird from his Overlander friend's gun).
- Sonic Adventure established that modern human civilization is the norm in the world of the Sonic games, which clashed horribly with the setting established in the comics. To reconcile this massive discrepancy, Station Square was made into a secret, underground city of humans (explicitly not Overlanders) with a false holographic sky. The Archie comics had also already sealed another villain named Mammoth Mogul into the Master Emerald before Sonic Adventure established that Chaos was inside the Master Emerald (it must have been getting crowded in there).
- Mobius was revealed around issue 125 to be Earth 1000 years in the future after alien squids called the Xorda attempted to destroy the human species with "gene bombs", which instead mutated most humans into the more war-like Overlanders and transformed many kinds of animals into Mobians. This is
- Eventually roboticization was reversed...by more aliens. An alien scientist showed up to return all roboticized individuals to flesh and blood and make them immune to being roboticized again, including Robotnik (I mean Eggman, I guess). This led to roboticization being replaced with cyborg augmentation (which apparently is still the case in the post-reboot continuity for some reason).

That's as far as I recall reading myself, but I've seen elsewhere details about later plot developments introducing "techromancy", Robotnik's younger female cousin, and an AI named A.D.A.M. that possessed the roboticized body of some random C-lister to absorb every Chaos Emerald in the universe.

And now a special Knuckles sub-section:
- Knuckles started out as the last of the echidnas, although he was raised by his father Locke (who mysteriously disappeared). Focus increasingly began to shift to Knuckles and the backstory of echidna kind, who in the original continuity were an advanced society who raised their capital city into the sky by creating the Master Emerald to escape a meteor. The echidna scientist who did this absorbed energy from the Chaos Emeralds and became Knuckles' first nemesis, Enerjak.
- Later an army of cyborg echidnas called The Dark Legion appeared, followed soon after by an entire city of echidnas returned to the island by the aftermath of a haywire weapon used by the original Robotnik before his death. Not only was Knuckles no longer the last of the echidnas, but there were also more individual characters of the echidna race than any other Mobian species.
- Turns out Knuckles dad was trying to make sure his son was the ultimate guardian of the Chaos Emeralds by mutating Knuckles before he hatched (echidnas lay eggs), taking him away from Echinopolis to be raised as the supposed "last of the echidnas" before ditching Knuckles and returning to Echinopolis (and to his wife, the mother Knuckles might never have met if it weren't for Robotnik's actions).
- Knuckles at one point becomes one with the power of the Chaos Emeralds, turning green and gaining ridiculously overpowered mutant abilities (which are best put to use ending a particularly bad crossover with Image comics in which Sonic and friends meet Spawn and the Savage Dragon).
- Knuckles also gets a girlfriend in Julie-Su, a former member of the Dark Legion. I remember nothing else about her except that she had cybernetic dreads.
- Thankfully, it appears that post-reboot none of this is canon.

Oh, one more thing!
- Tails' uncle was a wizard. Named Merlin.

Hexmage-SA fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 6, 2016

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
All the echidna stuff was Penders' weird fixation, so they were all put on a bus shortly before the reboot. Julie-Su was (in part thanks to later rehabilitation) a good character for having a decent background and defying gender stereotypes, but generally the echidnas were the most eminently mockable part of the Penders Period. Ah well.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

Fun fact: Penders was very, very proud of not having ever played a single Sonic game. He also created a character modeled after his cat (Hershey), who in her initial appearance was tricked into killing Sonic's girlfriend (she got better, against Penders' wishes) by her abusive boyfriend.

The Dark Legion stuff was horrendous, and completely contradictory, but honestly I do not have the energy to make a huge effort post about how terrible it was right now. I once did a long rear end post about their initial backstory at Ian Flynn's forum, pointing out how every single loving decision made by the characters in the story went against all common sense, but I don't feel like digging that all up or making it again.

Long story short: After "Enerjak" absorbed the power of 11 of the Chaos Emeralds holding the Island afloat (Chaos Emerald bullshit is another long story), Echidnas were like "technology sucks, let's ditch it, by law". So they do. Except for the group that's like "uh, that's dumb, this is dumb, why are we tossing out all our tech?". Instead of making an actual argument though, they immediately form a technocult, and decide to assassinate people. They fight the "good" Echidnas, and eventually both sides get tossed into separate pocket dimensions. Upon their returns (which happens almost immediately in Knuckles' comic, because Penders had no idea how give Knuckles a supporting cast without literally creating two new, massive populations out of whole cloth), we also see that the Echidnas who gave up tech are riding around in flying cars, in a futuristic city, with guns and poo poo.

This could be seen as some sort of hypocritical thing, or something. Anything. Instead, the issue is literally never brought up. We're told "the good Echidnas who gave up all technology had the right idea, also they have all their technology", and that is it. There is no conflict. There is no explanation. There is nothing. No one ever questions this. No one even mentions this. It's not like the backstory gets tossed; it is explicitly still the main point of strife between both sides. Nothing is done with it whatsoever.

This is the poo poo Ken Penders is proud of.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Kurui Reiten posted:

Though one of the biggest breaking points towards the end was a cover of Sonic crying over a marriage invite.



Way past cool!

TFRazorsaw posted:

I was never able to get into StC. I just couldn't stand Sonic himself.

He was kind of an rear end in a top hat.

Veotax
May 16, 2006


Kurui Reiten posted:

I think one of the reasons Fleetway got away with so much is that, in the end, Sega UK just didn't give a poo poo. Comics have always been a pretty different business in Europe than in America, style-wise and format-wise. Meanwhile, Archie was able to get away with some stuff story-wise, but Sega was hardcore "THIS IS WHAT THE CHARACTER LOOKS LIKE FOR MARKETING PURPOSES NOW, FIX IT", to keep poo poo on-model.

Yeah, as much as I like the Robotnik design from the end of StC, I suppose you probably couldn't remotely describe him as 'on-model'.



Although the Sonic Adventure adaptation was the last story the comic told before going into reruns until it was cancelled so maybe they didn't care about being on-model. It also had almost nothing to do with Sonic Adventure other than having Chaos (who had a completely different origin from the game version) and Sonic took a brief diversion to the past and met Tikal and the ancient Echidnas (and also Knuckles, adding to the mystery of what happened to StC's Enhidnas and making me wonder how far in advance the writers knew about the cancellation).

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Veotax posted:

Although the Sonic Adventure adaptation was the last story the comic told before going into reruns until it was cancelled so maybe they didn't care about being on-model. It also had almost nothing to do with Sonic Adventure other than having Chaos (who had a completely different origin from the game version) and Sonic took a brief diversion to the past and met Tikal and the ancient Echidnas (and also Knuckles, adding to the mystery of what happened to StC's Enhidnas and making me wonder how far in advance the writers knew about the cancellation).

I am fairly sure Nigel Kitching has talked about this, and I think he knew the Sonic Adventure adaptation was going to be the last original material they'd be doing when they started it.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
I think Ian did a lot of good things with the echidnas, personally. Lien-da really excelled under his pen, and Finitevus was one of the comic's best villains.

He also acknowledged that Locke was morally dubious as poo poo, while Penders continually doubled down on his "I did what I had to do" malarky. Which is unfortunately because Penders has said Locke is based on his own abusive father. I don't want to insult or deride the man for that, I just... find it very very sad.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

TFRazorsaw posted:

I think Ian did a lot of good things with the echidnas, personally. Lien-da really excelled under his pen, and Finitevus was one of the comic's best villains.

I think they benefited from paring down the echidna cast to Knuckles, Julie-Su, Lien-Da, Locke and Fintevus (and Dimitri's head in a jar, I suppose), whereas before you'd had all of them on top of half a dozen other guardians, Knuckles' mother, step-father and brother, Constable Remington and so on.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
It should be noted, "Endangered Species" was MEANT to involve characters like Remington and Lare-le more heavily, but the looming settlement forced hasty rewrites and for them to force the Krudzu and Shard into the story.

Then the rest is history.

Chocolate Teapot
May 8, 2009
I can't believe you guys remember all those awful weird names.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Chocolate Teapot posted:

I can't believe you guys remember all those awful weird names.

I blame it on :spergin:

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
it helps that most of Penders names or name schemes were stolen from TV shows or Superman.

Well.

"Helps".

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

TFRazorsaw posted:

it helps that most of Penders names or name schemes were stolen from TV shows or Superman.

Well.

"Helps".

Also Star Trek.

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Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
And Star Wars! Remember Lara-le's fiance's totally pointless Darth Vader chestplate?

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