- Grand Theft Autobot
- Feb 28, 2008
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I'm something of a fucking idiot myself
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Minneapolis-St.Paul is indeed expanding its transit system. But instead of focusing on routes that make sense, planners and politicians are sending lines to suburbs that will never use transit.
MSP already has an unused transit line to northwest suburbs.
I'll post some articles when I'm not phoneposting.
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Apr 1, 2016 12:31
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Apr 27, 2024 13:53
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- Grand Theft Autobot
- Feb 28, 2008
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I'm something of a fucking idiot myself
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The proposed Gold Line BRT looks like this:
It is making some suburbanites awfully upset
Suburban Douchebags to Traffic Alleviation: "Not in my Suburb!"
quote:
Virginia Zeitz wants her suburb to remain, well, suburban.
She is fighting a plan that she said would “urbanize” her Oakdale neighborhood with the $485 million Gold Line rapid-transit bus line.
Zeitz said it would bring a steady stream of buses through her neighborhood each day, attract low-income people who can’t afford cars and lead to more crime.
“This is why we don’t want to live in the city; we do not want to bring the city to us,” said Zeitz. “This is the suburbs. People do not move to suburbs to take a bus."
Zeitz is part of a kill-the-bus crusade that has been joined by hundreds of her neighbors. It was triggered by a January vote in Lake Elmo that banned rapid-transit buses. Another combatant has joined the fight — a new anti-bus nonprofit called Citizens for Smart Transit.
The issue is heating up as the Legislature considers a request for $3 million to continue planning the project.
“We are moving forward,” said Lyssa Leitner, manager of the Gateway Corridor Commission, which is lobbying for the project. “This is the only transit project with bipartisan support.”
The Gold Line would be unique — Minnesota’s first all-local rapid-transit bus line. It would run from Woodbury to downtown St. Paul, making 12 stops along its own dedicated two-lane roadway.
It would also be uniquely expensive. At $485 million, it would be the state’s most costly bus line ever built. Per passenger, it would be twice as expensive as the Green Line light rail between St. Paul and Minneapolis.
Virginia Zeitz wants her suburb to remain, well, suburban.
She is fighting a plan that she said would “urbanize” her Oakdale neighborhood with the $485 million Gold Line rapid-transit bus line.
Zeitz said it would bring a steady stream of buses through her neighborhood each day, attract low-income people who can’t afford cars and lead to more crime.
“This is why we don’t want to live in the city; we do not want to bring the city to us,” said Zeitz. “This is the suburbs. People do not move to suburbs to take a bus."
Zeitz is part of a kill-the-bus crusade that has been joined by hundreds of her neighbors. It was triggered by a January vote in Lake Elmo that banned rapid-transit buses. Another combatant has joined the fight — a new anti-bus nonprofit called Citizens for Smart Transit.
The issue is heating up as the Legislature considers a request for $3 million to continue planning the project.
“We are moving forward,” said Lyssa Leitner, manager of the Gateway Corridor. Commission, which is lobbying for the project. “This is the only transit project with bipartisan support.”
Construction on the line is expected to start in 2018; service would begin in 2022.Backers say the cost is worth it, arguing that the line would ease congestion along Interstate 94, stimulate growth of businesses and housing, and offer local bus service to residents without cars.
Opponents, meanwhile, say that the price tag is astronomical for a bus line and that the same benefits could be achieved by running buses on existing roads.
At a recent meeting, state Sen. Susan Kent, DFL-Woodbury, said 300,000 people are living east of St. Paul along the I-94 corridor, and 90,000 more will move in by 2030.
That would make rush-hour congestion worse — and the Gold Line is the way to fix it. Kent said the system would carry many commuters to their jobs, mostly at the 3M Co. campus in Maplewood or downtown St. Paul.
But opponents don’t think commuters will like it.
That’s because, they say, the Gold Line will be slow. Even with its own private roadway, the Gold Line would be six minutes slower than existing express bus service.
It would be 13 minutes slower than driving, under normal conditions. And that’s not including time spent getting to the bus stop and waiting for a bus.
Only half the riders will be commuters, said project manager Leitner, because easing freeway congestion isn’t the primary purpose of the line. Its main function is to provide local service to 12 stops for people without cars.
The system would be perfect for a mom who needs to take a sick child to a doctor, she said. Or a car-less dad who wanted to take his kids to a Minnesota Twins game.
The Gold Line might not attract residents who already live in the suburbs and own cars. But it would be heavily used by newcomers, who would move in as housing complexes were built near the bus stations. That’s what has happened along the Green Line light rail in St. Paul.
Leitner said she can’t guarantee growth — officials can’t control how developers spend their money. But she said the Gold Line would provide an incentive to build businesses and housing nearby.
But if a community doesn’t want low-income housing, said Leitner, it won’t happen.
City councils would decide about the size and use of any building. “The city determines if it is one story or 14 stories,” said Leitner.
Gold Line supporters make another argument — it’s their turn. Since 2008, Ramsey, Hennepin, Washington, Anoka and Dakota counties have been paying a 0.25 percent sales tax into a fund for transportation projects.
But so far, projects have been concentrated in the west-metro area.
The commuter-rail projects receiving tax funds include the Northstar Commuter Line from Minneapolis to Big Lake, the Blue Line from Minneapolis to the Mall of America, the St. Paul-Minneapolis Green Line, and the proposed Southwest Line from Minneapolis to Eden Prairie.
The tax has funded several bus lines, including the Red Line from Apple Valley to the megamall in Bloomington. Some tax-funded bus lines have been proposed, including the Metro Orange BRT line from Minneapolis to Burnsville, the Red Rock Line from Hastings to St. Paul, and the Rush Line between Forest Lake and St. Paul.
Gold Line supporters say it’s the east metro’s turn to spend some local money — and it’s Minnesota’s turn to get some federal money.
[/b]If the Gold Line were built, the federal government would pay the largest share — 45 percent. The five-county sales tax would kick in 35 percent, with 10 percent from the state, and 5 percent each from Washington and Ramsey counties.
The total contribution from Ramsey County would be $56 million, including payments into the sales tax fund. Washington County would pay $34 million.[/b]
If the federal money were not spent on the Gold Line, said Kent, it would go to other states. “They are going to send it to Utah,” the state senator said at a recent meeting.
Nevertheless, local opposition to the Gold Line seems to be growing.
The anti-bus movement got a boost in Lake Elmo when the city council voted to ban rapid-transit buses. That means that instead of using Lake Elmo’s undeveloped land, the Gold Line most likely will be routed through the malls and neighborhoods of Woodbury.
And opponents are speaking out. About 300 Oakdale residents have signed a petition to stop the bus line.
Officials got a sample of the anti-bus fervor in January at a town hall meeting at Oakdale City Hall.
It was supposed to be a routine meet-the-public gathering for legislators, but it was hijacked by about 60 protesters with signs saying “Stop the BRT!” and
"Oakdale People Matter.”
“I talked this over with my neighbors, and no one is in favor of this,” said protester Cia Westphal. “Please, for the love of God, no! We don’t want this!”
Driving a car is still faster than taking any hypothetical bus or rail system — so the Gold Line will never be popular, said protester Kathleen Buraglio.
“Who will ride that?” Buraglio asked. “I went to a Twins game. I drove to Sun Ray Mall in my car, then took the bus to Union Depot, then got on the light rail. It took two hours.”
“Commuters are just going to take the express bus. Anyone in their right mind knows that is faster,” said Linda Stanton, who founded the bus-fighting nonprofit Citizens for Smart Transit.
Protest leader Zeitz represents the 80-unit Oak Run Shores neighborhood association. The bus route along Fourth Street in Oakdale, she said, is lined with senior citizens who don’t want to bring urban problems to their suburb.
“We will not give up. If the shovels go down, we will be out there with wheelchairs and walkers. We are not going to be pushed around,” said Zeitz, a longtime resident of the southside Oakdale neighborhood.
“We built this community, and it is unjust to take it from us.”
As always, the comments are illuminating examples of the suburban mindset.
On the one hand, I agree that this thing is expensive, and I dislike very much the idea of building a BRT just to secure development along the line. I also understand that suburbanites probably aren't going to ride this thing. But still, goddamn, they have some hilariously racist and dramatic ways of explaining why they don't want a loving bus line.
Grand Theft Autobot fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 2, 2016
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Apr 2, 2016 03:36
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- Grand Theft Autobot
- Feb 28, 2008
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I'm something of a fucking idiot myself
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Are any of the BRT projects in the US actual BRTs? Like with dedicated lanes and special stations? In Austin what was sold to us as BRT is a total joke - semidedicated lanes downtown and then they use normal lanes everywhere else. They run on the exact same routes as normal buses and are 3 or 4 minutes fast I think.
In Minneapolis/St. Paul:
The Gold Line is a true BRT with dedicated lanes, but it makes so many stops that its time advantage is completely eroded.
The A Line running from the 46th Street LRT Station in Minneapolis to Rosedale Mall claims to be BRT but is actually just an express bus with special stations and boarding and exiting procedures to speed it up. It will run 20% faster than the existing line.
So the answer is no.
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Apr 2, 2016 04:39
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- Grand Theft Autobot
- Feb 28, 2008
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I'm something of a fucking idiot myself
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I'll post more on Chicago later, but it's in a weird spot right now where service cuts six years ago and the white dinc push back into the city has resulted in a third of the city riding on maxed out infrastructure while the rest of it is underserved.
There's also talk about adding high speed rail out to O'Hare, using the heavier rail tracks, but it wouldn't really be that effective vs the current light rail that goes there.
That being said, this gentleman has a fantastic weblog about gentrification, housing, transit and racism in Chicago and elsewhere. https://danielkayhertz.com highly worth a read and it's completely on point to this thread.
And speaking of brt, here's a hilarious Portland nimby article http://www.wauwatosanow.com/news/wauwatosa-parents-protest-proposed-bus-rapid-transit-system-b99693083z1-373377771.html?lc=Smart
Personally I don't like the Chicago brt idea that's being implemented and think it'll be a disaster but that's the future of transit for most cities.
You mean Milwaukee, right?
Parents don't want the BRT because it will make walking to school more dangerous, somehow. Just teach your dumbass kids not to walk in front of a loving bus.
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Apr 2, 2016 04:43
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- Grand Theft Autobot
- Feb 28, 2008
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I'm something of a fucking idiot myself
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A BRT from Shakopee to Bloomington with a run through that casino, the racetrack and the airport.
The tourist line would get more traffic at a higher fare rate than the current gold line plan. Even if it's an hour round trip, let's face it, most of the visitors to the cities want to see mall of America, and usually one other thing (valley fair, the casino, or a twins/Vikings game.(because no one willingly visits to see the wolves or the wild))
A line to Shakopee could probably be funded fully by the casino and valley fair.
Comedy option would be for valley fair to take federal funding to build a light rail to the airport and build it entirely out of coaster track .
But connecting rich suburbs to the hood for half a billion dollars sounds like the sort of bad idea that can only come from something focus grouped to death
I just want rail from DT St. Paul to the airport.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:28
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Apr 1, 2016 12:31
