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I wonder which country will have more people on the list I would bet Brazil will be at least among the top 5
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Apr 4, 2016 01:35
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Personally I'm not sure any major US politician will be implicated in these papers, if there was a bombshell like that you'd think they'd have opened up with it like they did with Cameron's dad and Iceland's PM
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Apr 4, 2016 01:36
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Fojar38 posted:Hey guys wouldn't it be great if a bunch of children were raped so that my candidate could win an election unopposed More like 'wouldn't it be great if these scandals would be shown to light' considering the only reason I suspect that Bill Clinton does this is because of Epstein. Wanting corruption exposed because you know human trafficking is happening and seeing the ruling class getting caught for it is justice.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:36
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Fojar38 posted:Personally I'm not sure any major US politician will be implicated in these papers, if there was a bombshell like that you'd think they'd have opened up with it like they did with Cameron's dad and Iceland's PM They might be saving to left an American news organization break it. That way America gets interest. Who am I kidding lol.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:37
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Personally I think that the the outcome where Bill Clinton didn't rape children is the better outcome
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Apr 4, 2016 01:37
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Fojar38 posted:Personally I think that the the outcome where Bill Clinton didn't rape children is the better outcome Probably but the Epstein paper trail exposed last year is already damning enough to think he has.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:38
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Deteriorata posted:American media will be all over it once American names are involved. They generally don't give a poo poo about the rest of the world as long as there's meaningless political gossip to hyperventilate about. Turns out you don't even need the actual evidence to start hyperventilating!
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Apr 4, 2016 01:39
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Fojar38 posted:Comedy option: Clinton ends up clean, Sanders implicated for fraud One of the top posts on Reddit right now is that Panama Papers absolutely can not be implicate Sanders in money laundering or hiding assets in shell companies because his financial disclosure forms show that he doesn't have much in assets.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:43
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Oh I strongly doubt Sanders will be on there, it's just that the meltdowns in response to him being on there would go down in internet history
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Apr 4, 2016 01:44
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Xae posted:One of the top posts on Reddit right now is that Panama Papers absolutely can not be implicate Sanders in money laundering or hiding assets in shell companies because his financial disclosure forms show that he doesn't have much in assets. Of course they don't. All his assets are hidden in Caribbean shell accounts. 
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Apr 4, 2016 01:44
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Xae posted:One of the top posts on Reddit right now is that Panama Papers absolutely can not be implicate Sanders in money laundering or hiding assets in shell companies because his financial disclosure forms show that he doesn't have much in assets. Breaking news: some people are idiots. More at 11.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:44
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Vermain posted:Mexico is in North America. Regardless, I don't doubt that there's at least a few American senators/congresspersons with their fingers in this pie. I'd be surprised if there were any Canadian leaders within the past two decades tied to this more than tangentially. We're a rather penny-pinching bunch up here, and our leaders tend to live relatively austere (by the standards of public servants) lives while in office. Maybe Stephen Harper has a few hundred thousand dumped in some offshore somewhere. There is no way in hell Canadian politicians with ties to mining and oil don't have money hidden away; either through this company or one of the others like it.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:44
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I don't think Clinton is going to get nabbed for opening her own offshore, I think someone's going to find donations coming into the foundation through offshores to obscure that they're coming from origins of ill repute.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:45
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1337JiveTurkey posted:They'd have to be saving a LOT of money in order to create that sort of liability for Hillary. I don't doubt that at least a few prominent donors are going to show up (if only due to demographic overlap) but not the Clintons themselves. Trump would also be a bit surprising since he's the last guy on Earth who's going to hide one red cent of his wealth. Yeah, I don't think they care about money to that degree to go with something like this, nor would they save all that much. I'd expect a lot of the folks who will show up in here will be involved in Defense/Energy and to a certain degree finance, especially people involved in deals with other countries. Money laundering of kickbacks/bribes/etc, that type of thing. I think this and Unaoil will have more legs than it seems. A lot of the big corruptions stories recently are connected to Iran, Russia, etc , and I can definitely see Western countries going after who it can when it comes to that stuff, especially people and businesses that are making money by bypassing sanctions and thus weakening said sanctions.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:45
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Hold on, is this just a list of people who have undeclared assets being held offshore? I thought that it was about people using offshore assets for illicit activities?
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Apr 4, 2016 01:46
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Fojar38 posted:Hold on, is this just a list of people who have undeclared assets being held offshore? I thought that it was about people using offshore assets for illicit activities? So far this is just a list of people who had some sort of offshore account or shell company. And we know many of them used them for illicit activities. But not all of them have been implicated in criminal activities, some are probably "just" tax havens.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:48
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Fojar38 posted:Hold on, is this just a list of people who have undeclared assets being held offshore? I thought that it was about people using offshore assets for illicit activities? Yeah, that's sort of a problem here. Having an offshore account is not a crime in and of itself. It certainly implies that the holder has a nefarious reason for it, but does not prove anything. There will need to be further proof of actual wrongdoing before anybody goes to jail.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:48
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I wonder if Ellison from Oracle will show up in there, or any other technology "new money" guys (Zuckerberg, Brin, etc.) Ellison does seem the kind of crap sack who'd do it though
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Apr 4, 2016 01:48
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I'm not sure how useful these papers are then until they go into way more detail. Basically every wealthy person on the planet is going to have offshore assets or will be linked to someone who does. A dude with a Virgin Islands account is hardly the same as a Russian pedophile using offshore assets to buy teen sex slaves
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Apr 4, 2016 01:49
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Deteriorata posted:Yeah, that's sort of a problem here. Having an offshore account is not a crime in and of itself. It certainly implies that the holder has a nefarious reason for it, but does not prove anything. Basically every page on the ICIJ site has a disclaimer saying "There are legal reasons to have an offshore account" to make sure people understand this. Those types aren't what this expose is about though, obviously. Guardian video on Russia's role in this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6xUOF-d9Ig
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Apr 4, 2016 01:50
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Fojar38 posted:Hold on, is this just a list of people who have undeclared assets being held offshore? I thought that it was about people using offshore assets for illicit activities? Both it seems.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:50
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:People act like anyone will actually get in trouble for any of this. In America, no way in hell. Other countries, it depends. Iceland's PM is already in a world of poo poo. My hope is somehow major PiS (Polish ruling party) members turn out to be accepting money from Russia. There's no way in hell that's happening but if even one of them is corrupt  .
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Apr 4, 2016 01:51
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Scaramouche posted:I wonder if Ellison from Oracle will show up in there, or any other technology "new money" guys (Zuckerberg, Brin, etc.) Ellison does seem the kind of crap sack who'd do it though Ellison strikes me as the type who wouldn't hide money because he considers it a scoreboard for life. He ain't going to hide points.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:52
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DrProsek posted:In America, no way in hell. Other countries, it depends. Iceland's PM is already in a world of poo poo. My hope is somehow major PiS (Polish ruling party) members turn out to be accepting money from Russia. There's no way in hell that's happening but if even one of them is corrupt Americans will get nailed if they have undeclared assets that they aren't paying taxes for
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Apr 4, 2016 01:52
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Yeah, apparently one of the Canadians named in the leak just has his name on a trust because the people who set up the trust decided he was the most trustworthy person to manage it if they died, and they wanted him to disburse it to their children. They never told the guy they had done this though, so there are probably a lot lot of names in there that are completely clean.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:53
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Scaramouche posted:Yeah, apparently one of the Canadians named in the leak just has his name on a trust because the people who set up the trust decided he was the most trustworthy person to manage it if they died, and they wanted him to disburse it to their children. They never told the guy they had done this though, so there are probably a lot lot of names in there that are completely clean. That sounds highly implausible.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:53
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So for someone like Cameron, where it shows that he has some offshore accounts, is it basically just then a case of "This looks bad", presuming that there isn't any larger paper trail/implications? Or does England have any sort of explicit laws against iT? Or is it one of those "where there's smoke there's almost certainly fire" that will play out?
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Apr 4, 2016 01:54
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Western politicians whose names show up will probably at least face inquiries Dictators and authoritarians will laugh and gun down anyone who talks about it
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Apr 4, 2016 01:55
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Mr Hootington posted:Any British goons have thoughts on how this could affect Cameron? Probably little because Cameron has a remarkable ability to ignore any complaints about him and they just disappear because they're somehow thought of as not being his fault. I mean ideally it would delegitimize his leadership as he's due to retire before the next election anyway and if he goes now, the subsequent lack of charismatic leadership (none of his cabinet are at all liked) and the fallout from the EU referendum would destabilize the government triggering a snap election between the squeaky-clean Corbyn and the warring and increasingly discredited Tories. But probably it'll get ignored.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:56
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Xae posted:One of the top posts on Reddit right now is that Panama Papers absolutely can not be implicate Sanders in money laundering or hiding assets in shell companies because his financial disclosure forms show that he doesn't have much in assets.  Has there been any discussion of this on cable/network news in the US yet? I know this isn't exactly a juicy topic by American media standards, so I wouldn't expect it to get massive coverage, but I figured I'd ask anyway. So much poo poo falling out of here.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:57
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The Larch posted:That sounds highly implausible. It isn't. Putting the executors name on poo poo makes everything go much smoother. My uncle mentioned over Thanksgiving that as the executor he made 50 copies of my grandfather's death certificate and ended up needing another batch. It took 6+ months to get a bunch of it taken care of. That was for a run of the mill small business owner. I can imagine that with more assets it can be an even biggest clusterfuck, plus any international stuff has to be a hundreds times more of a pain in the rear end.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:57
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The Larch posted:That sounds highly implausible. I mean, they could be lying but the way it's spun in the article makes sense: The cbc article I posted earlier posted:There are also Canadians whose names appear in the offshore data apparently unwittingly.
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Apr 4, 2016 01:58
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XboxPants posted:
I heard a few minutes of it on NPR this afternoon, but if I had to guess there's nothing "sexy" enough about it yet for something like CNN to feel like they need to care
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Apr 4, 2016 01:59
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Fojar38 posted:Dictators and authoritarians will laugh and gun down anyone who talks about it That could prove to be a mistake. Dictators are accountable to their people, just not in the same way as Democratic leaders. If it turns out that king Salman spent that $30+ million dollars from government funds that were misappropriated in a controversial way, or anything of that nature, that's the type of thing that can destabilize nations. And this poo poo applies to Qatar, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and a ton of other nations wrapped up in this. In Democratic nations, people will be looking at jail time. In authoritarian ones, people will be looking at inciting full-scale uprisings.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:00
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Xae posted:So far this is just a list of people who had some sort of offshore account or shell company. Well basically, this isn't an endgame, but more of a beginning, right? It gives starting points for hundreds or thousands of possibly corrupt powerful businessmen and politicians that investigators could use if they had a reason to be digging around them. All that money that was used in shady operations that you couldn't tie to people before? Now you have the direct A-->B link. Is that right?
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Apr 4, 2016 02:00
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Fojar38 posted:Hold on, is this just a list of people who have undeclared assets being held offshore? I thought that it was about people using offshore assets for illicit activities? Evidently a whole bunch of people who are implicated are on the U.S. terror watchlist.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:04
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Volkerball posted:The secret files: This wouldn't have happened if it were still acceptable for nations to engaged in a little bit of gunboat diplomacy when it comes to tax shelters, nor would this have happened if Carter had not been President. gently caress Jimmy Carter for creating the tax-shelters of Panama.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:07
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Open the loving bloodgates.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:10
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The Larch posted:I hope it's Cheney.
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Apr 4, 2016 02:10
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Grouchio posted:Open the loving bloodgates. Again, I'm not anticipating a bombshell because if there was they would almost certainly have put them on the spooky "big players" list on their website
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Apr 4, 2016 02:11
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