|
Oh dear me posted:Isn't this also just a restatement of the premisses? We know very well the original organism is dead, because we disassembled it. I would go through a (painless) transporter because the world afterwards would have someone who was the same as me in all important respects, but more conveniently located. If you wouldn't, what is it about being 'the original organism' that matters to you? The part where you aren't dead. There's another human walking around with your memories and feelings but it isn't you. You're dead. If you're okay with it then are you simply claiming you have no fear of death? You'd die for convenience? I get that after you're dead you won't be able to care, but you're not dead yet. I assume everyone posting here has some sense of self-preservation and would rather keep living than not, all things considered. Functionally it's just an instantaneous and convincing method of doing a horrible crime. If I bash your head in, dispose of the corpse, and then replace you with a clone I've produced from postmortem DNA extraction, is it you? Why does a more convincing doppelganger change things? vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 6, 2016 |
#
¿
Apr 6, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 11:28 |
|
|
Killer-of-Lawyers posted:People die for a lot of things dumber then convenience so that's a fairly weak argument. "Man, traffic's gonna be a bitch today. Better do everyone a solid and clear the roads." *bites cyanide capsule*
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
Oh dear me posted:No, but I've argued that the bad aspects of death-as-we-know-it - bereavement, loss of my memories, loss of future opportunity - would not apply to death-by-transporter. (Oh, and I've also specified painlessness.) It is the content of my thoughts that I want to continue, and it would (in my duplicate's head). I can't really see any intrinsic merit in this particular bodily organism continuing to function, when another body could have my thoughts better. Your memories and opportunities are just as gone as if you'd been shot. A copy of them exists but it isn't you. You'd not experience any of the opportunities, reminisce about the past, or see your future children-a doppelganger would. Your last memories will be of stepping into a teleporter and then 'you' will cease. A new person convinced they're you will step out the other end and proceed to experience a world that you will never know. The intrinsic merit is seeing and experiencing your future, rather than merely dying with the knowledge that it will be. Ultimately the teleportation device presented is just killing and replacing you, which under normal circumstances is horrifying- but make the killing quick and the replacement convincing and suddenly it's a resounding 'meh, ok'? Like put another way, if I design a functional AI that's convinced it's Louis XVI, or hell, scan the guy's skeleton with amazing future technology and clone him memories intact, no matter how convinced that clone is that he is Louis revived, the fact will never change that the man commonly known as Louis XVI died under a guillotine's blade, and the last thing he saw was a crowed cheering his death. If I zap my own brain, delete my memories, and believe myself to be Louis XVI, I'm still not Louis. He's dead and he'll never feel grass under his skin or learn the future fortunes of France. Oh dear me posted:You know it isn't: you yourself wrote the post changing the specs. What are you trying to argue? That methods of death don't matter? Why should one method of quick painless death over another change your decision? You've already chosen to die, is a few seconds at most being put down by a reliable gunman somehow a game changer? vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 6, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
I was thinking about this in the shower. Say I'm a euthanasia doctor. I'll help anyone, not just the terminally-ill, no questions asked. Angsty teen got dumped? I'll drive over to their neigbourhood, and, with absolute discretion, painlessly and instantly kill them. But there's a twist. I have in my possession the technology to create a perfect copy of the person to be killed. Before administering death, if the patient desires, I can copy them and send the copy about its day, again with absolute discretion- the copy will be so perfect that no one, including the copy itself, will ever suspect that this occurred. The copy will possess all memories exactly as the patient does, except instead of contacting me, it will remember a brief but benign crisis after which it ceased feeling suicidal and went home. This way, the suicidal patient can end their life without suffering and, as a bonus, avoid bereaving their loved ones or leaving works unfinished. If a person would, given the option, take my copy-euthanasia services, is that person suicidal? Would you recommend they seek mental treatment rather than going through with it? If yes, in what way is teleportation in this manner not merely assisted suicide? vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 6, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
I really can't make sense of oh dear me's point unless they're of the belief that they/their sister will just wake up in the new copied body. It's not about the "original organism." It's about you being absolutely dead and replaced. Your thoughts are gone. Your sister is still dead. There's just an uncanny valley clone walking about thinking it's the person you guys were.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 7, 2016 16:14
|
|