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WhyteRyce posted:If you think this 13 page letter is normal stuff than I don't know what to tell you. This isn't just a simple rant This isn't crazy, loony tunes stuff to me, but I'm heavily entrenched in science academics so I'm probably biased to perceive this style of writing/thinking as "normal". I can definitely see how it comes off as a little over the top, but should he have simply yelled " YOLO!!!" while running out the door and tweeting middle finger emojis to @Sixers? Leaking this and trying to make him seem crazy says more about the ethics of owners/Colangelo. Not that I should expect better from a bunch of hedge fund looters, but it's disappointing to see them take the Boston Red Sox strategy in dealing with employee severance.
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Apr 7, 2016 05:10
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Redgrendel2001 posted:This isn't crazy, loony tunes stuff to me, but I'm heavily entrenched in science academics so I'm probably biased to perceive this style of writing/thinking as "normal". I can definitely see how it comes off as a little over the top, but should he have simply yelled " YOLO!!!" while running out the door and tweeting middle finger emojis to @Sixers?
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Apr 7, 2016 05:11
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How long do you think Hinkie spent writing that loving thing? Do you all of his emails to agents and other GMs are worded like this? "Hey Mitch, What would it take to get Clarkson from you? I've been this great book by the famous surgeon Goodhands McBlowme, and I find every page an inspiration. We can offer you a first round pick, the value of which is like the beat poetry of Jack Kerouac, electric and incalculable. Have your assistants call me if you are interested Sincerely, Sam"
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Apr 7, 2016 05:12
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Pro-tip: if your boss ever forces you to do a 'productivity hack', quit.
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Apr 7, 2016 05:12
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straight up brolic posted:Pro-tip: if your boss ever forces you to do a 'productivity hack', quit. i just spotted that section and of loving course they did all their business via Slack OF loving COURSE
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Apr 7, 2016 05:14
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Stepping away from the letter for a sec: I don't understand why the idea of the supertank for a top pick has traction (even in a "this makes sense, but..." kinda way) because a lot of the superstars that you need to win a title weren't top overall picks or even like top 3. Like maybe I misunderstand but the Process was an effort to accelerate something that title teams don't actually really do that often. Steph was 7, Kobe was 13, Kawhi was 15, Dirk was 9. Lebron won titles but to date not with the team that actually drafted him. The idea that you'll just bomb for a while and get the top pick and yay it's LBJ welcome to title town does not only sound incredibly unfun but the Spurs are literally the only team I see since Michael Jordan where they drafted their best player in the top 3. Everyone else was later lottery, or not lottery, or a free agent who left the lovely team that was so bad to have to draft them #1, or Tim Duncan. Like as a Mavs fan anticipating the post-Dirk turbo-tank, I'm annoyed that Cuban seems to think the draft is about winning the ping-pong balls because if they actually took it seriously over the years the world post-Dirk wouldn't seem like nearly such a wasteland in the first place. Here's hoping the next LBJ actually exists in the next decade and that we get him and that he doesn't hate Dallas as much as free agents seem to.
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Apr 7, 2016 05:20
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Redgrendel2001 posted:This isn't crazy, loony tunes stuff to me, but I'm heavily entrenched in science academics so I'm probably biased to perceive this style of writing/thinking as "normal". I can definitely see how it comes off as a little over the top, but should he have simply yelled " YOLO!!!" while running out the door and tweeting middle finger emojis to @Sixers? There is a middle ground between the two. And lots of people have a stream of random, but well defined thoughts going through their head as they write letters like this, they typically have someone else go over it or at least go over it themselves and hold down the Backspace key for a few minutes
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Apr 7, 2016 05:21
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Dutchy posted:Stepping away from the letter for a sec: Having a higher pick gives you a better chance at drafting an all-star or higher talent. Look at the graph between average career projections and draft spot, it's pretty much a steep decline as soon as it starts. Hinkie's whole strategy was to get as many opportunities as possible at the highest chance possible Even ignoring the analytics or numbers, having a #1 pick gives you the opportunity to grab the guy you want vs. hoping he'd fall to you. Even if you knew who the best player in the draft would be, if you're drafting at #6 that's 5 other teams you have to hope would pass on him. The NBA draft isn't like the NFL draft where there is a reasonable expectation that many players in the first round will come out a productive, high level player and if you missed the guy you really wanted you could still be happy with option B, C, or D. WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 05:25
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WhyteRyce posted:There is a middle ground between the two. And lots of people have a stream of random, but well defined thoughts going through their head as they write letters like this, they typically have someone else go over it or at least go over it themselves and hold down the Backspace key for a few minutes Yeah, I mean look at first paragraph. It immediately goes from "I've been working hard to help the 76ers" to "Let me tell you about my favorite book" That is weird leap of logic in a conversation, let alone of loving resignation letter
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Apr 7, 2016 05:29
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straight up brolic posted:I actually enjoyed the Hinkie letter and thought it was intelligent and well written Same Also lol at calling not getting Joel Anthony a travesty
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Apr 7, 2016 05:50
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Firing Sam Hinkie was a mistake
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Apr 7, 2016 05:53
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Metapod posted:Same Harlock posted:Firing Sam Hinkie was a mistake
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Apr 7, 2016 06:05
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https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/717926162165465088 I can't fault Colangelo wanting to hire his kid. At least he could smack his kid on the head if he started talking nonsense
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Apr 7, 2016 06:12
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the VC owners going longer than Hinkie and using him as a pawn would be hilarious
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Apr 7, 2016 06:16
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Was "Shitsucker" an already established nickname for Colangelo while he was in Toronto. Because if it wasn't, that's the fastest I've ever seen a nickname enter into common usage.
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Apr 7, 2016 06:21
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The Sixers were going nowhere in the pre-Hinkie days. If the best you could hope for is a constant 6-8 seed and a first round bounce, what's the point? Even the most optimistic of outcomes wouldn't have them beating a top seed. That's basketball purgatory. Too good to get better draft talent, too bad to win anything subtantial. I appreciate that he was willing to take a risk to acquire superstar talent to build a team that hopefully could challenge for the East. Even if it spectacularly failed, they still have a lot of draft picks to show to it and not a lot of guaranteed money so the next person can try their vision without being hindered too bad. The NBA is too top heavy right now and to truly win you have to put together something special.
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Apr 7, 2016 06:27
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Wow I always assumed that nobody bought into The Process and it was all ironic coping but shows me
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Apr 7, 2016 06:34
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I think the fairest criticism of Hinkie is that he didn't do much to establish his ability to find genuine NBA talent, rather than just carrying out a well thought out IRL GM simulator strategy. If you're just going to say 'alright, let's get the slam dunk star in the draft,' then that's one thing, but after #1 there is obviously more work to be done. Noel/Embiid/Okafor were all consensus BPA, which is fine and sensible, but doesn't do much to speak to the reputation of Sam Hinkie, Basketball Genius. I think correctly selling high on MCW was his most savvy talent acquisition decision, and that still hasn't produced an actual NBA player, so. I think if The Process were a little less all-or-nothing in the early goings, Hinkie wouldn't have gotten so much negative attention and would still have a job. Signing a couple of decent role players to two- or three-year deals would ensure a rotation resembling an NBA team while still allowing you to gracefully settle in at the bottom of the standings, if not necessarily rock bottom. There's probably something to the notion that playing with real NBA talent is good for player development. Flexibility is nice, but the Sixers had a lot of room before they approached "not flexible" territory. I know Morey might have had his hand forced by an owner that didn't want to tank, and the Harden deal was a unique set of circumstances, but he was able to get a star from a treadmill team. Normal bad teams don't have to inherently suffer through extended mediocrity. Have there really been many consistently bad teams that were hamstrung by bad luck, rather than higher-than-average front office incompetence? xbilkis fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 06:42
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I wonder if THE PROCESS is something that would be easier to do with a team in a smaller market, instead of a place like Philadelphia where the public and the press will start to eat you alive if they think what you're doing is ridiculous.xbilkis posted:I know Morey might have had his hand forced by an owner that didn't want to tank, and the Harden deal was a unique set of circumstances, but he was able to get a star from a treadmill team. Normal bad teams don't have to inherently suffer through extended mediocrity. Have there really been many consistently bad teams that were hamstrung by bad luck, rather than higher-than-average front office incompetence?
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Apr 7, 2016 06:48
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My main problem with Hinke is how he treated the players. There's a way to do what he did without being so robotic.
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Apr 7, 2016 07:08
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I'm disappointed I'm the only person who voted No.
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Apr 7, 2016 07:10
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WhyteRyce posted:Having a higher pick gives you a better chance at drafting an all-star or higher talent. Well doy, my point is the increased odds are such that going "whatever, 8 seed, who cares" and shopping veterans and planning to build through the draft is logical, deliberately setting out to be abysmal is not. Lebron style saviors are insanely rare. Even great Blake Griffin types are super rare and they'll only take you to "really good" without help. And most of these guys who do make good on championship promise over the last 20 or so years have done so with teams that didn't draft them, because NBA stars can't generally win championships single-handed and don't enjoy trying. The extreme commitment to being awful is/was a really aggressive way to get marginal gains in potential potential in the hopes of emulating a Top Pick = Win formula that isn't actually very common among recent champions, the thing you supposedly need a star via top pick to become. And furthermore,
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Apr 7, 2016 07:19
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Hinkie's Process: Acquire future assets + ????????? = Win championship He showed no ability at knowing how to bring in talent or develop talent. Probably one of those guys who's a great assistant GM but not the guy you want in charge.
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Apr 7, 2016 07:20
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Harlock posted:The Sixers were going nowhere in the pre-Hinkie days. If the best you could hope for is a constant 6-8 seed and a first round bounce, what's the point? Even the most optimistic of outcomes wouldn't have them beating a top seed. That's basketball purgatory. Too good to get better draft talent, too bad to win anything subtantial. I appreciate that he was willing to take a risk to acquire superstar talent to build a team that hopefully could challenge for the East. Even if it spectacularly failed, they still have a lot of draft picks to show to it and not a lot of guaranteed money so the next person can try their vision without being hindered too bad. But this isn't really true? Outside of the super-teams where a bunch of big free agent moves combined to make them instant contenders (the KG/Ray Allen/Pierce Celtics, Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat) teams do get incrementally better. If you're in that 6-8 spot it just takes a fortunate trade, or some young player developing much more than expected and suddenly you're in the conference finals and are close to being a contender. Go back 4 years and see how many people predicted GS would be pulling off a run as an all-time great team in a couple years. xbilkis posted:I think the fairest criticism of Hinkie is that he didn't do much to establish his ability to find genuine NBA talent, rather than just carrying out a well thought out IRL GM simulator strategy. If you're just going to say 'alright, let's get the slam dunk star in the draft,' then that's one thing, but after #1 there is obviously more work to be done. Noel/Embiid/Okafor were all consensus BPA, which is fine and sensible, but doesn't do much to speak to the reputation of Sam Hinkie, Basketball Genius. I think correctly selling high on MCW was his most savvy talent acquisition decision, and that still hasn't produced an actual NBA player, so.
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Apr 7, 2016 07:26
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Harlock posted:The Sixers were going nowhere in the pre-Hinkie days. If the best you could hope for is a constant 6-8 seed and a first round bounce, what's the point? the process would have made sense in the NFL with the depth of its drafts (Lions going from 0-16 in 2007 to 10-6 in 2011), it makes no sense in an annually paper-thin draft where your pick is decided by some fuckin balls spinning around The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 07:51
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Quest For Glory II posted:the process would have made sense in the NFL with the depth of its drafts (Lions going from 0-16 in 2007 to 10-6 in 2011), it makes no sense in an annually paper-thin draft where your pick is decided by some fuckin balls spinning around basically. getting a chance to draft Lebron or Tim Duncan is mostly luck
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Apr 7, 2016 08:08
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Up Circle posted:basically. getting a chance to draft Lebron or Tim Duncan is mostly luck Turns out the balls are a fickle mistress. The Celtics had the second-worst record as well as the pick that belonged to the fifth-worst Dallas Mavericks, so combined the team had far and away the best odds to nail the #1 spot. Naturally, Boston ended up picking #3 and #6 instead, and to show for it they got Ron Mercer and the beta version of Chauncey Billups. Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 08:39
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As unsure as I am about whether or not Hinke's particular approach to building a team would work, now seems like the worst time for him to leave. The way Hinke was running things it was always going to be a long-term rebuild. He was basically just running a gambling system and there's really no way to know if it was going to lead to anything for a few more years. Now they've just got a bunch of random, mis-matched assets who might be or might not be good, going into an important period of free-agency and drafting that suddenly is being overseen by Colangelo. I don't know if he actually resigned on his own because he was pissed about his role being usurped or if he was forced out, but his bosses kind of screwed themselves over now. They've got a half-finished long-term super-rebuild that now has to be run by a guy with a totally different philosophy.
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Apr 7, 2016 10:46
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euphronius posted:Also Lowe obviously knew yesterday and that was obviously why Hinkie was in NYC. I listened to the Podcast again today, and I tend to agree with this. Especially towards the end, Lowe tries to pat him on the back without shouting out that Hinkie was stepping down. And while I am not a fan of a lot of things Hinkie has done — hiring Colangelo is way, way worse. I hope for the 76ers that their Loch Ness center will eventually be at least serviceable.
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Apr 7, 2016 11:48
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"The other reason to keep track yourself is you’re often the only one to see the most insidious type of errors, the ones the narrative generating parts of our lizard brains storytell their way around—errors of omission." What a stupid rear end in a top hat
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Apr 7, 2016 11:56
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I think the best part is that the answer to "how do you make your basketball team better" was never "get guys who are good at playing basketball."
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Apr 7, 2016 12:33
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Quest For Glory II posted:I can go to a Sixers game and enjoy it The process made sense at the time and still makes sense. There's no other way to turn Jrue/Nick Young/Evan Turner/Thad Young/Hawes into anything without tanking. If the 76ers had tried to build around that core so that you were able to go to a game and enjoy it, it would have backfired like it backfired for the Knicks, the Bobcats and the Bucks.
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Apr 7, 2016 12:54
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I think my main criticism of Hinkie is that he forgot that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. MCW for the Lakers pick made sense, but I don't think Payton for Saric did. Payton would've given the fans someone to get excited about. Same with some of his other moves for future 2nd round picks. Hinkie should've figured out a way to get a couple more players like Jordan Clarkson, Langston Galloway, etc. Guys that aren't that good but will get fans excited. Even if it cost him a couple future 2nd rounders.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:08
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The Glumslinger posted:How long do you think Hinkie spent writing that loving thing? He knew he was out in December and stayed on long enough to see them get 10 wins. He's been writing that for awhile. He was quoting it in his Lowe podcast.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:08
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I think my main criticism of Hinkie is that he forgot that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. MCW for the Lakers pick made sense, but I don't think Payton for Saric did. Payton would've given the fans someone to get excited about. Same with some of his other moves for future 2nd round picks. It was Payton for Saric AND a first round pick.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:09
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euphronius posted:It was Payton for Saric AND a first round pick. I thought it was a protected Orlando 1st, which was why I mentioned it. But turns out it was actually Philly's 2017 first that they had traded away for Bynum. So nvm, Hinkie would've been stupid not to do that trade. But I still think Hinkie should've spent some future assets to get some exciting players on the team now.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:24
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I mean maybe from a pr perspective. But 2nds are valuable. He turned two seconds into the absolute fleecing of Sacramento. So yeah I see your point but after reading that letter you can see his pov.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:34
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Cool Buff Man posted:"The other reason to keep track yourself is you’re often the only one to see the most insidious type of errors, the ones the narrative generating parts of our lizard brains storytell their way around—errors of omission." lol i hadn't actually read the letter but told my brother that it sounded like the type of venture capital hedge fund tech investor innovation management jargon poo poo that would say stuff like "think differently about thinking", and zach lowe and behold: Thinking about thinking
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Apr 7, 2016 14:01
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I thought it was a protected Orlando 1st, which was why I mentioned it. But turns out it was actually Philly's 2017 first that they had traded away for Bynum. So nvm, Hinkie would've been stupid not to do that trade. They also still had MCW at the time.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:10
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Dutchy posted:Well doy, my point is the increased odds are such that going "whatever, 8 seed, who cares" and shopping veterans and planning to build through the draft is logical, deliberately setting out to be abysmal is not. Lebron style saviors are insanely rare. Even great Blake Griffin types are super rare and they'll only take you to "really good" without help. And most of these guys who do make good on championship promise over the last 20 or so years have done so with teams that didn't draft them, because NBA stars can't generally win championships single-handed and don't enjoy trying. The extreme commitment to being awful is/was a really aggressive way to get marginal gains in potential potential in the hopes of emulating a Top Pick = Win formula that isn't actually very common among recent champions, the thing you supposedly need a star via top pick to become. And furthermore, The fact that LeBron and Griffin guys are so rare is why Hinkie tried maximizing his chances at getting one. Going by the averages, the best players are at the top of the draft and there is a sharp drop off between 1 and even 4. I get the argument that being no historically bad could have resulted in a much better product at only a minor hit to draft position, but as any Kings fan will tell you a couple of wins here or there at the end of the year can drop you 3 spots and you go from drafting the guy you want in Joakim Noah to settling for Spencer Hawes. Forgot looking at specific names like you are. Some of the top teams in the West (OKC, GS, San Antonio, even the Clips) were built through the draft. It's hard for non-LA Laker teams to do otherwise. If he's trying to emulate anything, it's the Presti/OKC stretch that netted them Durant, Westbrook, and Harden in consecutive years with top lottery picks.
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Apr 7, 2016 14:27
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