Trying to understand the Religious Right

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trying to understand the Religious Right

Rush Limbo: Sep 5, 2005; its with a full house

HappyHippo posted:

Because it tells you nothing about where these beliefs come from, how they spread, or why they're so persistent.

Belief in religion comes from a fear of death and pending oblivion. This is a curse of our self-awareness. They're spread because they offer answers to the questions of impending death, and the reason they're persistent is because we have no other options, yet.

This is a different question as to why people are assholes. If you want to find the answer to that, our best bet would be neurology or other brain-related science, or perhaps sociology.

I consider myself an agnostic. I don't particularly think about the existence of God or any sort of higher power in my day to day life because it doesn't really concern me. Humans are very, very good at excusing their excessive behaviour with various modes of thought, be they religious, political or otherwise. I do not readily accept the idea that if you were to get rid of one of these excuses, or even all of them, that people would stop being terrible to each other. That's absurd.

What you do take away, though, is the comfort people feel when facing impending oblivion. Seeing as how I'm not (generally) an rear end in a top hat, I would not begrudge people that comfort at all, even if I don't feel the need for it myself.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 22:22

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 00:47

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

I don't buy the religion makes you an rear end in a top hat thing, but there is perhaps an argument that certain religions (Islam in particular) can lend themselves to those assholes being more dangerous. Being willing to blow yourself up in suicide bombings is almost entirely justified by religion. Those same people would probably still be assholes without religion, but the promise of reward for martyrdom is a specific example of how religion can make assholes more dangerous than they otherwise would be.

The real solution isn't combating religion, though, but poverty and oppression.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 22:37

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

social conservatives being extremely uncool with LGBT types while also being more likely to have old-time religion seems more like a correlative factor than a causative factor

Trent posted:

Being willing to blow yourself up in suicide bombings is almost entirely justified by religion. Those same people would probably still be assholes without religion, but the promise of reward for martyrdom is a specific example of how religion can make assholes more dangerous than they otherwise would be.

united states soldiers are given the nation's highest honor for martyring themselves on the battlefield. "he jumped on a grenade to save his buddies" i dont think we can peg this on the deep christian faith of soldiers

# ? Apr 11, 2016 22:37

Rush Limbo: Sep 5, 2005; its with a full house

I don't think Martyrdom is exclusive to religion

quote:

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 22:45

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Ddraig posted:

Belief in religion comes from a fear of death and pending oblivion.

This is, at best, an incomplete explanation given that not all religious or spiritual systems describe an eternal soul or immortal consciousness. Fear of death is only one of several explanations for the attraction of religion.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:02

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Brainiac Five posted:

But "Christianity" doesn't either, because there are Christians who don't share these beliefs, who abandon these beliefs, and who actively counter these beliefs, for every denomination.

For like the tenth time: there are different varieties of Christian belief. This is just about some of them. That doesn't mean these aren't religious beliefs. I don't know what's so hard about this.

Ddraig posted:

Belief in religion comes from a fear of death and pending oblivion. This is a curse of our self-awareness. They're spread because they offer answers to the questions of impending death, and the reason they're persistent is because we have no other options, yet.

This is a different question as to why people are assholes. If you want to find the answer to that, our best bet would be neurology or other brain-related science, or perhaps sociology.

I consider myself an agnostic. I don't particularly think about the existence of God or any sort of higher power in my day to day life because it doesn't really concern me. Humans are very, very good at excusing their excessive behaviour with various modes of thought, be they religious, political or otherwise. I do not readily accept the idea that if you were to get rid of one of these excuses, or even all of them, that people would stop being terrible to each other. That's absurd.

What you do take away, though, is the comfort people feel when facing impending oblivion. Seeing as how I'm not (generally) an rear end in a top hat, I would not begrudge people that comfort at all, even if I don't feel the need for it myself.

Don't even know where to start with this. Again, stop putting words in my mouth: just because there can be assholes without religion doesn't mean certain religious beliefs don't spread well.

Also the roots of religious belief are much more complex than that, but it's off topic for this thread.

Let's cut to the chase: certain christian groups have messed up views on morality, specifically sexual morality. For them sex is immoral unless it's for procreating. God has assigned us gender roles, and not fulfilling them is disobedience to god and therefore sinful. Sex for pleasure is immoral to these people (this people tend to have negative views of sex before marriage, oral sex, birth control, etc). Since gay sex can't produce children it's a "perversion" of God's assigned roles and is therefore sinful. Trans people are also being disobedient to god by rejecting his assigned role for them.

This particular view of homosexuality spreads easily because it let's the people believing in it feel pious and superior. This is particularly true in a religious context that emphasizes that all your natural urges are sinful. That can make people feel uncomfortable. Focusing on a group of people who've "given in" to an urge you don't even feel can easy the psychological stress inherent in that worldview.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:12

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

there is some verse somewhere in the bible that says, if you are being persecuted, it means your doing the right thing. So thats where alot of the martyr poo poo sorta comes from.

Edit. its all in peter.

So much of the nonsense that goes on in Christianity is fundamentally about grasping for an explanation of why one isn't being sawn in half.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:14

Ice Phisherman: Apr 12, 2007; Swimming upstream
into the sunset

Trent posted:

I don't buy the religion makes you an rear end in a top hat thing, but there is perhaps an argument that certain religions (Islam in particular) can lend themselves to those assholes being more dangerous. Being willing to blow yourself up in suicide bombings is almost entirely justified by religion. Those same people would probably still be assholes without religion, but the promise of reward for martyrdom is a specific example of how religion can make assholes more dangerous than they otherwise would be.

The real solution isn't combating religion, though, but poverty and oppression.

Religion can totally make you into an rear end in a top hat. It can make those levels of assholery rise to new heights. It can also legitimately make you into a decent person. It depends on what you take away from it all, but the message will help pound that mind of yours into something that fits the mold. Some people reject it, some people don't. Some people are unchanged.

Suicide bombing could be justified by any religion if you looked at it hard enough and twisted people up enough, but it's not confined to religion. There were Tamil rebels who were atheist/communists who would blow themselves up too.

I can walk down the street and look at a church. There are roots in assholery everywhere. In the South where I live, the reason that many churches have a Southern branch is because they disagreed on slavery. Baptists disagree on slavery? gently caress it, now we're Southern Baptists. Pro slavery all the way. Not anymore, but that culture persists in a vestigial way.

Anyway.

I've talked to Evangelical people before, both atheists, transitioning atheists and current believers. I'm an atheist and I have to remind myself occasionally that these people think in ways that are utterly alien to me. The world was made by God. It was made (maybe) thousands of years ago. Good and evil are real and there is a real struggle. They are saved and I am damned. Maybe everyone else is damned because they don't follow this specific splinter group of Christianity. Original sin is real and women can't be trusted. Sin is real and you are born with it, and therefor you can only get salvation by accepting this or that. Prayer is literally something good that you can do to as a way of interceding on someone's behalf. Everything in the bible is true, even when it disagrees with itself or has been proven to be false. Insects have four legs. Pi is three. God sent down bears to tear apart children for making fun of a prophet's bald head. Everything is a part of God's plan. People who die either go to Heaven or Hell. No exceptions.

Not all of that might be true depending on what you believe, but essentially it means that the world runs on magic.

Generally I don't like discussing people's faith. I'm an atheist in the South. Around here there are a large number of people that think that atheists are Satan worshipers. That by rejecting God I'm worshiping Satan. Nor if pressed can I pound into their mind that if I don't believe in any of that at all. It precludes belief in any of their mythology. They can't imagine a world where there are no gods, no demons, no good and evil, just people on a rock spinning around a sun in the vastness of empty space. It's because to them, my way of thinking is entirely alien as well. No God, new Satan, no angels, no devils, no good, no evil, no soul, no sin.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:15

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

HappyHippo posted:

For like the tenth time: there are different varieties of Christian belief. This is just about some of them. That doesn't mean these aren't religious beliefs. I don't know what's so hard about this.

i think it further undercuts your argument when you say "not all religion, but some religion, explains bigotry" when it's just as likely, and in my opinion more plausible, that bigots create and perpetuate religious explanations of non-religious bigotry

HappyHippo posted:

Let's cut to the chase: certain christian groups have messed up views on morality, specifically sexual morality. For them sex is immoral unless it's for procreating. God has assigned us gender roles, and not fulfilling them is disobedience to god and therefore sinful. Sex for pleasure is immoral to these people (this people tend to have negative views of sex before marriage, oral sex, birth control, etc). Since gay sex can't produce children it's a "perversion" of God's assigned roles and is therefore sinful. Trans people are also being disobedient to god by rejecting his assigned role for them.

gamergaters also have messed up views on sexuality, which they aggressively and vigorously perpetuate. i really don't see how you can blame negative and bigoted social attitudes on the language people use to describe a hateful idea. people construct all kinds of mental frameworks to say yes you should do this, no you shouldn't do this, but i wouldn't say that the framework is essentially to blame or even explains the motivations of why that framework was constructed to begin with

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Apr 11, 2016

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:24

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

HappyHippo posted:

For like the tenth time: there are different varieties of Christian belief. This is just about some of them. That doesn't mean these aren't religious beliefs. I don't know what's so hard about this.

But there are no varieties of Christian belief, taxonomically, that universally or near-universally produce homophobic views. Not even megachurch evangelism does so.

# ? Apr 11, 2016 23:53

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

HappyHippo posted:

You're really bad at arguing. If I can't say something that's true for all religious beliefs, then I can't say something about some specific religious beliefs? And some people being bigots without religion somehow means that other people aren't bigots because of religion? Sorry but I can't follow either of those.

you're not actually explaining how or why religion leads to bigotry. you're accurately describing how religion can be used as a method of communication to transfer cultural values such as suspicion of sexual minorities, and you're describing how religion can be linked to those values as a way of justifying them, but so far you're merely asserting that religion, somehow, must be a causal factor in driving people to be bigots. like you're just skipping right over "I can't say something that's true for all religious beliefs" without explaining or considering that maybe this means religious belief is not a fundamental driver of bigotry if it's only true for some subset of religious beliefs

# ? Apr 12, 2016 00:07

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Ddraig posted:

Your argument is that, while you agree that there are religious people who are not closed minded bigots, there are those who are, who must be somehow more religious, or their religion must somehow be more conductive to that, even though within any given religion you can find many, many people who do not fit that mold at all. Are they bad at their religion? Did the Divine rear end in a top hat not properly enter into them? Are they fake religious people?

How do you explain these discrepancies? It's almost as if there's something to it other than "Religion makes a person bad". Perhaps, as many people have pointed out, bad people use Religion to justify their awfulness, and if they didn't have Religion they'd have something else. Some possible examples include: Animal Rights, Veganism, Video Games, Tabletop Games, Food, Hair Colour, Politics, Gender

You're suggesting, what, that some people are inherently bigoted and they gravitate towards particular ideologies solely as a way to express their bigotedness?

# ? Apr 12, 2016 02:16

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

HappyHippo posted:

I'm not saying religion creates bigots out of thin air, I'm saying, in the context of the Religious Right (remember, the topic of this thread?) that their beliefs are genuinely religious beliefs which are a part of their religious worldview that they've been raised with and received from various religious teachings, which they pass on to others.

yes, you've said this before, and i said that one person instilling bigoted ideas in another person using religious language is not an example of religion causing bigotry, it's an example of one person writing their cultural values onto another person using a common language. this is no more religion causing bigotry than english causing bigotry or chatrooms causing bigotry

HappyHippo posted:

Again your last sentence makes no sense at all. There are an astounding variety of religious beliefs. Because I can't say ALL of them lead to bigotry I can't say SOME of them do? It's like you can only comprehend absolutist statements like "ALL religion leads to bigotry" and, determining that isn't true, jump to the opposite absolutist statement of "therefore NO religion leads to bigotry."

no, i'm just pointing out that you haven't actually proposed or demonstrated a causal mechanism where religious principles, in a vacuum, directly creates bigoted attitudes in an otherwise unbigoted person and i'm using the wide diversity of religious belief to undermine your assertion

since people can come up with their own religious tenets, and often do so, it's strange that you would say religion is the prime factor here and not the person who thought up the bad idea or the person who heard the bad idea and said "yes i agree with this"

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 02:22

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

"God hates fags" is a religious idea, in that it pertains to the nature of God. It's also a homophobic idea. If someone develops their opinions and values in an environment where this idea is repeated approvingly they're probably going to come to believe, through no weakness or moral failing except those common to all human beings, that God sanctions homophobia. Their religion, in other words, creates bigotry.

we don't know if god actually hates fags though. god has been pretty vague on the subject. we do know for a fact that fred phelps hated fags, an idea he worked very hard to impress into his family and community

e: there's no real theological, conceptual, philosophical, or really anything underpinning the westboro baptist church's extreme hatred for everything. it's a church with no allies and no affiliation that was just the mouthpiece of one extremely angry, absuive man and the toxic remnants of his family. at that point anybody can say "hey you, you're an rear end in a top hat! god told me to tell you that" and it's suddenly a religious motivation? by this standard i could beat somebody up while wearing jedi robes and saying i used the force to kick someone's rear end and it would be religiously motivated violence. even if it's technically true this doesn't indicate that religion causes violence

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 02:54

fspades: Jun 3, 2013; by R. Guyovich

I used to thought that D&D was terrible when talking about Islam but now I'm realizing you people just have a problem with discussing religion in general. Here's a religious phenomenon right in your backyards and you're still astonishingly bad at understanding it. Religion is not something you slap on to your otherwise completely secular life. It's neither a simple cover for justifying your cynical aims, nor a brain parasite causing you to do things by itself. It's a totalizing worldview that informs everything you experience. It's impossible to separate someone's ethics from their religion, and trying to find which one is in charge is a futile exercise.

HappyHippo is entirely correct. These people are of course very religious, and they have religious motives. Their religion btw, is intimately connected with their identity of being white American conservatives. And this particular brand of Christianity cares a lot about sexual deviancy for certain historical and social reasons. The fact that you can't find anything in the scripture that would justify such an extreme and hateful stance doesn't matter because a) a very small portion of religious people have a sophisticated and broad understanding of scripture, and b) this is the religion they learned in their upbringing and daily practice anyway.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:08

fspades: Jun 3, 2013; by R. Guyovich

quote:

no, i'm just pointing out that you haven't actually proposed or demonstrated a causal mechanism where religious principles, in a vacuum, directly creates bigoted attitudes in an otherwise unbigoted person and i'm using the wide diversity of religious belief to undermine your assertion

Why would I have to do such a ridiculous thing? Religious principles don't exist in a vacuum. None of this has anything to do with what happens in the real world. You've set an impossible standard for something I've never claimed in the first place. Just to remind you my point from the beginning is that religious beliefs play a role the bigotry of the American religious right, nothing to do with direct causation or creation of beliefs ex nihilo.

quote:

since people can come up with their own religious tenets, and often do so, it's strange that you would say religion is the prime factor here and not the person who thought up the bad idea or the person who heard the bad idea and said "yes i agree with this"

Their religious worldview shapes how they understand and interpret the idea. If that makes them more receptive to the idea then their religious beliefs are playing a role in the popularity of that idea.

HappyHippo fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:18

Brainiac Five: Mar 28, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

fspades posted:

I used to thought that D&D was terrible when talking about Islam but now I'm realizing you people just have a problem with discussing religion in general. Here's a religious phenomenon right in your backyards and you're still astonishingly bad at understanding it. Religion is not something you slap on to your otherwise completely secular life. It's neither a simple cover for justifying your cynical aims, nor a brain parasite causing you to do things by itself. It's a totalizing worldview that informs everything you experience. It's impossible to separate someone's ethics from their religion, and trying to find which one is in charge is a futile exercise.

HappyHippo is entirely correct. These people are of course very religious, and they have religious motives. Their religion btw, is intimately connected with their identity of being white American conservatives. And this particular brand of Christianity cares a lot about sexual deviancy for certain historical and social reasons. The fact that you can't find anything in the scripture that would justify such an extreme and hateful stance doesn't matter because a) a very small portion of religious people have a sophisticated and broad understanding of scripture, and b) this is the religion they learned in their upbringing and daily practice anyway.

Actually, though, this particular brand of Christianity generates a number of liberal Christians, just like every Christian denomination has. In order to narrow the brand down to one that is almost-universally homophobic, you need to use qualifiers like "conservative" which exist outside of the religious sphere, rendering this totalitarian notion of religion to be a clear absurdity.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:19

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

I would hazard a guess that if your religious beliefs contradict someone else's religious beliefs, you don't actually belong to the same religion as them.

e: Or at least, to the same sect, since it's reasonable to talk about nesting taxonomies of religion. (In the sense that anyone who agrees to the Nicene Creed can probably be called a Christian, but that's not enough to be a Catholic and being a Catholic doesn't necessarily make you a Tridentine Catholic.)

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:21

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Brainiac Five posted:

Actually, though, this particular brand of Christianity generates a number of liberal Christians, just like every Christian denomination has. In order to narrow the brand down to one that is almost-universally homophobic, you need to use qualifiers like "conservative" which exist outside of the religious sphere, rendering this totalitarian notion of religion to be a clear absurdity.

Not every cloud brings rain, doesn't mean there isn't a connection between clouds and rain.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:22

Brainiac Five: Mar 28, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I would hazard a guess that if your religious beliefs contradict someone else's religious beliefs, you don't actually belong to the same religion as them.

Well then holy poo poo, there are about 20 different religions expressed in the little Presbyterian church I went to growing up.

HappyHippo posted:

Not every cloud brings rain, doesn't mean there isn't a connection between clouds and rain.

It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:23

fspades: Jun 3, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Brainiac Five posted:

Actually, though, this particular brand of Christianity generates a number of liberal Christians, just like every Christian denomination has. In order to narrow the brand down to one that is almost-universally homophobic, you need to use qualifiers like "conservative" which exist outside of the religious sphere, rendering this totalitarian notion of religion to be a clear absurdity.

I wasn't talking about a specific denomination, just people who would consider themselves to be the Religious Right, which is a big incestuous family, denomination-wise.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:25

Brainiac Five: Mar 28, 2016; by FactsAreUseless

fspades posted:

I wasn't talking about a specific denomination, just people who would consider themselves to be the Religious Right, which is a big incestuous family, denomination-wise.

Whoa there pardner, I'm afraid my religion informs me that this post is backpedaling and I shouldn't read it, and as religion informs everything about my worldview, I guess I don't have a choice now.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:28

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Brainiac Five posted:

Well then holy poo poo, there are about 20 different religions expressed in the little Presbyterian church I went to growing up.

Isn't that the point of Protestantism in general? :v:

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:33

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

HappyHippo posted:

You're very much hung up on religion "causing" bigotry. Religion isn't some independent force in the universe, it's a collection of beliefs and values (some of which may be bigoted) held by individuals. The only force it has is through those individuals and their words and actions. If they pass on those bigoted values to someone else who was receptive to the message due to their similar religious worldview, or if they instill those values in their children, then religion is playing a role in those bigoted beliefs and values.

i'll be more clear - you're confusing correlation with causation. if you're not talking about causation, and you're just saying "sometimes religious people are bigots" then i'm not sure what it is you're arguing. congrats for noticing? sometimes left handed people are bigots. sometimes tall people are bigots. whoop de doo

when it comes to shaping the worldview and perceptions of bigots, the english language has more to do with perpetuating bigotry then religion, given the number of secular english speaking bigots. ergo we must conclude that speaking english directly contributes to the spread of bigotry

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 12, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:45

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

"Language subtly affects your values and how you think about the world" isn't really an implausible scenario either.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:50

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

MaxxBot posted:

There's clearly something special about evangelical Christianity with regards to their views on homosexuality and sexuality in general. With many other denominations of Christianity or other religions there's not such a strong association with anti-gay beliefs.

You are assuming religious belief drives political belief when in reality it is likely the other way around. In which case the fact the are evangelicals is a correlative, not causative factor.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 03:52

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

"Language subtly affects your values and how you think about the world" isn't really an implausible scenario either.

for sure but if i got suckered by backpedaling into an argument about whether or not language is used to communicate ideas and in turn can form ideas and modify perception then i'll be mad as heck

# ? Apr 12, 2016 04:02

rudatron: May 31, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

"Language subtly affects your values and how you think about the world" isn't really an implausible scenario either.

I feel like the better analogy would be technical jargon, rather than a total language - the ideas buried and traded in the use of domain-specific jargon carries both the pragmatic contraction of complex ideas into simpler labels, but at a cost of hidden assumptions that aren't always examined or conscious.

So the jargon of a specific religion is used to contextualize political motives w.r.t stuff like gender, sexuality and economics, which will suppress (good) ideas that can't fit in with the existing jargon, or are distorted by that jargon.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing, ultimately any ideology does the same thing (see: marxism, liberalism), but it's definitely something to be aware of and, in the case of religion, the extra burden of metaphysics confuses everything in a way that pure political ideologies don't get confused.

Basically any use of religion in the area of politics is doomed to failure, and public secularism as well as government secularism should be seen as necessary for any kind of social progress.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 05:38

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

The claim that Christianity is the cause of anti-LGBT bigotry seems pretty weird to me considering that bigotry against homosexual sex and cross-dressing in European cultures predates Christianity by like millenia.

Rather than coming from an obscure line in some Hebrew book alongside some nitpicky dietary poo poo that not even most Jews pay attention to anymore, it seems to have a lot more to do with the Greek and Roman convention that women are property and a man who dresses like one or allows himself to be penetrated like one has betrayed his manhood and made himself equal in status to a woman, in other words a station somewhere below horses and cattle but still above geese or nice furniture.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 06:35

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

WampaLord posted:

Why are people bothering to argue with Popular Thug Drink when he essentially rejects the premise of the thread? In his mind there is no "Religious" Right, there is just a right wing that happens to have many religious members, with no causation implied.

well nobody seems to be willing to put forth a causal mechanism. i agree that bigotry is related to some forms of religious expression but there's a lot of distance between that and "these religious traditions are a direct cause of bigotry" as nobody seems willing to put in the work to disentangle religion in this case from politics, class, SES - anti-LGBT bigotry is more closely correlated with the southeast united states and the global south, prove to me that warm climates are not a driver of anti-LGBT bigotry

# ? Apr 12, 2016 15:27

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 00:47

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Russia.

# ? Apr 12, 2016 15:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trying to understand the Religious Right

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HappyHippo posted:

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