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CANDU DOES WHAT AMERIDON'T
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Apr 18, 2016 19:41
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Germstore posted:I think the Chinese already have a research reactor up and are working with the United States, specifically the Oak Ridge lab. It seems odd, but LFTRs can't produce fuel for weapons so I guess it's in everyone's best interests. not being able to be used to make weapon fuel is why LFTR's weren't adopted in the first place. the vid i posted really goes into it but wowee its like 2 hours long but the first 5 minutes are neat and cool edit: I found the part about not making weapons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9M__yYbsZ4&t=1809s mbt fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 19:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0P7R9CfCY e: OP is this you in this scene? spoiler: it's that scene from that movie where the guy gets wicked amounts of radiation and its cool
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Apr 18, 2016 19:52
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-Troika- posted:Nuclear power plants are basically miles and miles of plumbing and I would guess that a decent amount of minor fuckups in the plants come from the occasional tiny leak somewhere. The US needs to add a shitload of these to their shopping cart so they can go online in 30 years. Less pluming, not ancient. AP1000
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Apr 18, 2016 19:53
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Murphy Brownback posted:What's it like at reactors as far as hiring eligibility? Do you need security clearance like you need on the research side of things e.g. if you work for a DOE lab? Do they only hire US citizens? Reactor operators need to be licensed but I don't know the whole process for that. Non us citizens can be hired, but there is a black list of countries whose citizens can't go into vital areas (former Soviet states mostly). Security information is 'classified' as safeguards information and requires site by site clearance, but it's unrelated to dod or doe clearances.
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Apr 18, 2016 19:57
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What exactly does "drone ready" mean? The Westinghouse ap1000 had to be redesigned for plane strikes! They are building four of these in the US right now.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:03
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brugroffil posted:Reactor operators need to be licensed but I don't know the whole process for that. Non us citizens can be hired, but there is a black list of countries whose citizens can't go into vital areas (former Soviet states mostly). Security information is 'classified' as safeguards information and requires site by site clearance, but it's unrelated to dod or doe clearances. Not all ops guys are licensed. There's SROs (Senior Reactor Operator, the big dogs), ROs (Reactor Operators), and NLOs (Non Licensed Operators). The hierarchy is pretty obvious there, but NLOs are the guys that basically run all over the plant turning valves, throwing switches/breakers, etc. Not everything is done from the control room. I don't know a shitload about ops though, I'm usually contracted under the maintenance department and do their work. You work in the industry? You using the term safeguards makes me wonder. Mortimer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0P7R9CfCY Yes this is me. I'm dead. It's a real boon to already be dead in this industry. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 20:13
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Yes, I've been to a bunch of different plants doing safeguards related stuff. Thankfully I've never had to dress out of anything, only had to wear a tld once at Surry. I got yearly dosage rates in the mail for a while after spending like two hours there for a meeting, lol.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:19
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brugroffil posted:Yes, I've been to a bunch of different plants doing safeguards related stuff. Thankfully I've never had to dress out of anything, only had to wear a tld once at Surry. I got yearly dosage rates in the mail for a while after spending like two hours there for a meeting, lol. Ah Surry, I know that plant. Not a bad place at all. I've done most of my work with Dom VA power so I've worked with a lot of those guys.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:21
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I read some article or post about one of the 3 or 4 guys from the Fukushima guys who had hung around to make sure it was safe and got a lethal dose. Supposedly he was kept alive to see the effects of radiation and the post went into excruciating detail about how his stomach fauna had died, his mucous membranes had dried out and a laundry list of horrible ailments before the poor guy expired. I was not sure of the validity of the posts claims about him begging to die and the Japanese doctors refusing on the grounds of learning what they could. I would be interested to hear opinions on it. I was looking for info and found this book and review: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2009/01/11/books/book-reviews/learning-life-lessons-in-83-days-of-death/#.VxUyiXrlwxI Not my kind of reading, but I guess it confirms the fact they kept him alive for study. Either way, I would be interested to hear OP and other's opinions. It's a horrible way to die, is it something that you consider and worry about. As the OP mentioned himself. Equipment failures can happen even if they are not your fault. I would agree that Nuclear power is one of the safer options. But like flying, the accidents are terrible and horrific when they do happen and seeps into public awareness. Did this kind of stuff keep you up at night? you mentioned the cancer worries and the job seems like it attracts a fairly pragmatic bunch. But is it something that you feel people are afraid of and do you find yourself worrying about it? You mentioned being above a pool of radioactive water. I would have nightmares about that poo poo.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:24
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Lonos Oboe posted:I read some article or post about one of the 3 or 4 guys from the Fukushima guys who had hung around to make sure it was safe and got a lethal dose. Supposedly he was kept alive to see the effects of radiation and the post went into excruciating detail about how his stomach fauna had died, his mucous membranes had dried out and a laundry list of horrible ailments before the poor guy expired. I was not sure of the validity of the posts claims about him begging to die and the Japanese doctors refusing on the grounds of learning what they could. I would be interested to hear opinions on it. That article isn't about Fukushima. No one at Fukushima got a lethal dose afaik.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:31
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How long should it take from the theoretical "Oh holy gently caress!" Moment to total reactor shutdown?
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Apr 18, 2016 20:32
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Domus posted:I know you're probably loving sick already of disaster questions, but I watched a documentary on Chernobyl, and in it Gorby says that if the melted reactor had managed to hit the water table that was beneath the plant, all of Europe would be a radiated wasteland for centuries. I wondered how true this was, but couldn't find a good source for that exact situation. There could possibly have been a massive steam explosion, maybe big enough to blow the whole site up, including the three undamaged reactors. Then with hot reactor chunks everywhere it would no longer have been possible to contain the burning radioactive graphite. It certainly scared the soviets enough to put massive contingency plans in place to freeze the ground under the reactor. Fortunately by the time the reactor started melting the hot metal was being mixed and diluted with liqufied glass from the sandbags that were being dropped from above and the resultant radioactive lava cooled and solidified as it dispersed in the pipes under the plant.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:38
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Lonos Oboe posted:I read some article or post about one of the 3 or 4 guys from the Fukushima guys who had hung around to make sure it was safe and got a lethal dose. Supposedly he was kept alive to see the effects of radiation and the post went into excruciating detail about how his stomach fauna had died, his mucous membranes had dried out and a laundry list of horrible ailments before the poor guy expired. I was not sure of the validity of the posts claims about him begging to die and the Japanese doctors refusing on the grounds of learning what they could. I would be interested to hear opinions on it. I don't worry about this at all. I have my doubts it went down like that and if it did I don't see that happening in the US. As far as dangerous poo poo goes you just do the best you can to not die. I really don't worry about it beyond that. I've been through several car wrecks, I've broken bones including my skull, dislocated shoulder and elbow, nearly bled myself out by cutting an artery at work, and I've been struck in the head with both a baseball bat and a hatchet. Of all that only the dislocated elbow and a broken arm were treated by a doctor because I'm cheap and generally give no fucks. Basically I never really expected to live this long (I turn 30 this year) and I smoke/drink. I just make a living, have fun, and try to stay safe. If the job kills me, then eh. I'd say the general public is terrified of this kind of poo poo, and even a good portion of the nuclear world too. For most they just don't know anything about it, and others it's a matter of fearing death. By and large, most the guys I've worked with were very careful when it comes to safety, radiological or otherwise. But a huge portion of people in the nuke world want nothing to do with high rad work or climbing all over dangerous poo poo. Refuelers like me are regarded as the craziest fuckers in the whole plant not only because we do high rad work, but also because we tend to party hard as gently caress and engage in shenanigans that freak people out (humping the reactor head comes to mind). I very often hear the comment from HP nerds that "you refuelers are the craziest fuckers we deal with" and they're not wrong. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 20:44
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Thanks, and sorry if I messed up any details there. I have zero clue about this stuff and this thread is pretty amazing.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:51
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There are some freaky youtube vids during the intial containment efforts at Chernobyl, showing soldiers and what not running out on the roof, grabbing incredibly radioactive chunks of poo poo, and then tossing them back inside with their hands.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:51
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Lonos Oboe posted:I read some article or post about one of the 3 or 4 guys from the Fukushima guys who had hung around to make sure it was safe and got a lethal dose. Supposedly he was kept alive to see the effects of radiation and the post went into excruciating detail about how his stomach fauna had died, his mucous membranes had dried out and a laundry list of horrible ailments before the poor guy expired. I was not sure of the validity of the posts claims about him begging to die and the Japanese doctors refusing on the grounds of learning what they could. I would be interested to hear opinions on it. quote:Learning life lessons in 83 days of death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident#In_1999 quote:The second and more serious Tokaimura nuclear accident indicates the nuclear disaster which occurred on 30 September 1999, resulting in two deaths. It was the worst civilian nuclear radiation accident in Japan prior to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster of 2011.
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Apr 18, 2016 20:55
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Lonos Oboe posted:Thanks, and sorry if I messed up any details there. I have zero clue about this stuff and this thread is pretty amazing. Nah man, you ain't done anything wrong. I'm not an expert in this poo poo and I hope more nukegoons show up to fill in where I can't. But even in the nuclear industry some of the stuff I do isn't very common at all. There are tons of people that work in this business their whole lives without even having to dress out, much less set foot in the reactor cavity itself. Refuel is a small world. A few goons have expressed interest over time though so I figured it was time for me to make a thread on it. Me still being pretty new to this as well as the holes in my knowledge are why this is in GBS instead of A/T. I wanted this poo poo to be pretty loose and informal. -Troika- posted:There are some freaky youtube vids during the intial containment efforts at Chernobyl, showing soldiers and what not running out on the roof, grabbing incredibly radioactive chunks of poo poo, and then tossing them back inside with their hands. Yeah Chernobyl was loving insane. A lot of the first people there dealing with it ended up very dead. The just of what I'm told by more knowledgeable heads is that all the effort you put into those old soviet reactors is to keep it under control. With American reactors you're working to keep it up where you need it to poo poo power at a profit. I've had operators tell me that if all the equipment isn't hosed up you can basically walk away and it'll shut itself down more or less. Some reactor designs are just plain dangerous as hell. A meltdown is bad enough, but with Chernobyl hydrogen built up in containment and exploded it, sending poo poo all over. Three Mile Island might have done the same except they vented containment into the atmosphere. That bit is a large part of the controversy but it was the right call, and I've seen data that shows it didn't result in a very big increase in radiation around the plant, relatively speaking. It made a difference but not bad enough that you hear about tons of cancer around there or godamn super mutants or something.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:01
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Ivor Biggun posted:Nasty way to die, however Tokaimura is not Fukishima Yeah...you don't feel radiation even in very high rad work in this business. If you can feel it, something is very very wrong and you're prolly hosed, much less yakkin yer guts out...jfc...  E:literally edited to replace stare with stonk...just holy gently caress
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Apr 18, 2016 21:04
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Mister Speaker posted:The insidiousness of radiation is also morbidly fascinating. "Shredding all of your DNA at once" is a really good way to put it. Can you comment on cumulative radiation doses? It's my understanding there are parts of your body (like the thyroid) that can soak up radiation and essentially poison you from the inside, is this at all correct? Or is this more related to radioactive fallout, like being exposed to uranium dust, than actual gamma or neutron exposure? Radiation isn't my area of expertise so maybe someone else can chime in who actually knows what they're talking about but I can make an educated guess! Cells have DNA repair mechanisms so I'd imagine that multiple smaller doses over a fairly long amount of time would probably be less harmful than one big dose even if they add up to the same total dose in the end just because the big dose is going to do a more overwhelming amount of damage at once as opposed to to smaller doses doing more easily repaired damage repeatedly. As far as cancer risk I honestly don't know if they'd end up being much different. There's always going to be a baseline of DNA loving up that could potentially lead to cancer, carcinogens and radiation just make more potentially cancerous events happen more or less in line with total exposure AFAIK. As far as the thyroid thing goes I think that's more along the lines of radioactive particles are more likely to collect in the thyroid if they get into your body. Neutron radiation can make exposed materials radioactive themselves but other types of radiation you have to be in contact with or in proximity to a radioactive source(uranium or whatever) to receive a dose. Once you've taken away the source of radiation there's no danger of radiation coming from exposed objects or tissues. So if you got exposed to a radiation source and then taken away there's no way your thyroid or anything could continue to poison the rest of your body. But if you inhaled or ate a bunch of uranium dust then I think it tends to end up in certain tissues like the thyroid and would then continue to emit radiation and damage the tissues around it. Also cancerous cells in certain tissues are much more likely to move to other parts of the body and spread the cancer than other tissues. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about can confirm/correct what I've said.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:06
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ghetto wormhole posted:Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about can confirm/correct what I've said. E: drat son thread's gone gold at page four. Thanks guys, and thanks to whichever mod stickied this thing! Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 21:08
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Honky Dong Country posted:Nah man, you ain't done anything wrong. I'm not an expert in this poo poo and I hope more nukegoons show up to fill in where I can't. But even in the nuclear industry some of the stuff I do isn't very common at all. There are tons of people that work in this business their whole lives without even having to dress out, much less set foot in the reactor cavity itself. Refuel is a small world. A few goons have expressed interest over time though so I figured it was time for me to make a thread on it. Me still being pretty new to this as well as the holes in my knowledge are why this is in GBS instead of A/T. I wanted this poo poo to be pretty loose and informal. Yup, RBMK reactors have a positive void coefficient, which means the reaction naturally increases on it's own. Pair that with them shutting down all the safteys for some stupid test, plus the reactor not having a proper containment structure... 
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Apr 18, 2016 21:09
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Horrible Lurkbeast posted:How long should it take from the theoretical "Oh holy gently caress!" Moment to total reactor shutdown? The amount of time it takes for the automatic circuitry to respond.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:17
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"Refueling outage" what you mean you don't fuel online like a boss?
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Apr 18, 2016 21:21
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KetTarma posted:The amount of time it takes for the automatic circuitry to respond. Actually not so much. It takes time for the control rods to be fully inserted, and also for all the other poo poo required for reactor shutdown to happen. It's not like a big siren starts going off and everyone runs for their lives.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:25
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Jay-Zeus posted:"Refueling outage" what you mean you don't fuel online like a boss? Hell no. I've never done a hot jump at all. They do happen though if something critical breaks, as well as right after an outage is over for final inspections. I'm a refuel contractor though, so I'm long gone by then. When I did an outage at the plant my family works in though, my brother was part of the post-outage hot jumps. He said it was pretty cool. Like me, my brother also does refuel, but he's an in-house permanent employee and is otherwise just a nuclear mechanic. At that plant, each refuel crew (four of them, 2 nights, 2 days) has an in-house supervisor that runs the show, and 2-3 in-house techs, plus a buncha contractor refuel mechanics/mechanic helpers and a couple hatchwatches. Contractors all answer to the in-house mechanics, who answer to the supervisor. When I did the outage there, both me and my brother were on refuel, but different crews. Still worked together a lot though. It was cool.
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Apr 18, 2016 21:31
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Honky Dong Country posted:Hell no. I've never done a hot jump at all. They do happen though if something critical breaks, as well as right after an outage is over for final inspections. I'm a refuel contractor though, so I'm long gone by then. When I did an outage at the plant my family works in though, my brother was part of the post-outage hot jumps. He said it was pretty cool. Like me, my brother also does refuel, but he's an in-house permanent employee and is otherwise just a nuclear mechanic. At that plant, each refuel crew (four of them, 2 nights, 2 days) has an in-house supervisor that runs the show, and 2-3 in-house techs, plus a buncha contractor refuel mechanics/mechanic helpers and a couple hatchwatches. Contractors all answer to the in-house mechanics, who answer to the supervisor. When I did the outage there, both me and my brother were on refuel, but different crews. Still worked together a lot though. It was cool. Is a hot jump meant to correct the flux if something weird is seen on run-up?
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Apr 18, 2016 21:33
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Jay-Zeus posted:Is a hot jump meant to correct the flux if something weird is seen on run-up? I'm not entirely sure what that means. From what I understand they'll do a hot jump when something like a leak has sprung or whatever, or right after an outage to do inspections. I don't exactly know much beyond that. I know it involves wearing doubles w/plastics and using an SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus), which sucks. It's really loving hot inside containment when the unit is online. It's not exactly comfortable even when it's down either, considering the only air you're getting is from the personnel and equipment hatches. Far as adjustments to how the reactor is running, I believe most of that is done from the control room. There's almost nothing inside containment that has to be operated manually at most plants, far as I know. If something big breaks or something is jacking the reactor up real bad, they have to bring it back offline which is a huuuuuuge problem. But a hot jump is just what you call going into containment while the unit is still running and under vacuum. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 18, 2016 |
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Apr 18, 2016 21:36
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In maple syrup moderated reactors, fueling is done sideways while online. Each of the fuel channels is sealed with its own plug, rather than a singular reactor head. Fueling machines line up on both sides of the calandria (cylindrical vessel the fuel channels run through). One machine discharges new fuel and the other accepts spent fuel. Fueling is done every few days to manage the reactor flux and the optimize fuel burn up. Some bundles are moved around the reactor, too. 
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Apr 18, 2016 22:01
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Honky Dong Country posted:Nuclear operation with WH40k Orkish characteristics. EorayMel posted:Everything is better in terms of orc(k)s. "Sir, I think something bad is happening, this needle is in the red zone!" "Traitor! You dare gaze upon the Emporer's reactor without first performing the sacred rituals? Guards!!! Take him away to become a lobotomised servitor" <reactor explodes 8 hours later> Or Chaos: "Yessssss, remove more of the reactorsssss plating. Ssssssend the ssssservants down into the core that they might receive the blesssssssingssss of Father Nurgle"
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Apr 18, 2016 22:04
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Anyone else here work out at the South Texas Project? I worked there from 2011-2014 as a IT architecture consultant.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:32
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Honky Dong Country posted:Basically I never really expected to live this long (I turn 30 this year) and I smoke/drink. I just make a living, have fun, and try to stay safe. If the job kills me, then eh. I'd say the general public is terrified of this kind of poo poo, and even a good portion of the nuclear world too. For most they just don't know anything about it, and others it's a matter of fearing death.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:37
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a hole-y ghost posted:I suspect that disproportionate fear of radiation is largely because of the uncertainty: if your arm gets caught in a lift and tears off your arm, you're probably gonna die right then and there. If you get a big dose of radiation you're gonna die at some uncertain point in the near future, or maybe you won't. It's like gambling—a potential yet very uncertain result sort of looms over your head and drives you do to things more strongly than something that's direct and reliable. Nuclear energy is the most feared energy on the planet and I don't think that will ever change. If you were to die on the way to work in a traffic accident, you would be just a blip on the radar of local news for a few days. If you were somehow to die of a radiation exposure on the job, you will be remembered forever both as an industry case study and a nuclear opponent talking point.
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Apr 18, 2016 22:50
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Mister Speaker posted:The insidiousness of radiation is also morbidly fascinating. "Shredding all of your DNA at once" is a really good way to put it. Can you comment on cumulative radiation doses? It's my understanding there are parts of your body (like the thyroid) that can soak up radiation and essentially poison you from the inside, is this at all correct? Or is this more related to radioactive fallout, like being exposed to uranium dust, than actual gamma or neutron exposure? The thyroid doesn't soak up radiation. Iodine is directed to the thyroid biologically and a component of fission releases are radioactive iodine. If you ingest radioactive iodine it will go to your thyroid and dose the hell out of it. That's why potassium iodine tablets are taken if you are exposed so that the non radioactive iodine essentially forces out the bad stuff by being in such excess. The treatment for tritium ingestion is beer because tritium goes where water would and the beer flushes it out.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:29
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TIL I'm immune to tritium.
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Apr 18, 2016 23:40
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Brb gonna go eat some tritium
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Apr 19, 2016 00:01
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Any good documentaries on nuclear disasters/side effects of radiation? :P
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Apr 19, 2016 00:43
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Are there test drills for worst case scenarios? How many places do we bury waste within concrete/mountains? What happens to waste after its no longer radioactive? Is it gooey?
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Apr 19, 2016 00:45
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i want some thorium metal and it's horseshit that the only source is insanely expensive scientific supply houses when that stuff is apparently dumped into tailing ponds by the ingot b/c of lack of modern applications beyond thoriated tungsten electrodes for TIG welding. this isnt a question, im just complaining
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Apr 19, 2016 00:56
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Edgar Allan Pwned posted:How many places do we bury waste within concrete/mountains?  Tip for a happy life, never ask a question you might not want to know the answer to
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Apr 19, 2016 01:02
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