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That clears it up, thank you
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May 3, 2016 21:10
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It also might help you if you understand that getting major surgery is really loving scary, and sexchange surgery is never ever covered by insurance (in the US)
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May 3, 2016 21:11
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A big flaming stink posted:It also might help you if you understand that getting major surgery is really loving scary, and sexchange surgery is never ever covered by insurance (in the US) Additionally a lot of people don't qualify for surgery due to comorbidities like weight, diabetes, age, etc. If you're at a higher risk of bleeding or infection a surgeon's not going to operate on you because the procedure is risky enough in healthy individuals. Many trans men also opt not to get the procedure because the female-to-male procedure is really loving primitive compared to the other one. They're waiting for someone to come up with a better solution.
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May 3, 2016 21:20
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Toasticle posted:Something like 1/150 or something pregnancies result in 45 or 47 chromosomes, 45 is usually non-viable but 47,XXY (Extra 47th X) I've read is somewhere around 1/1000 males have. XXY men tend to be 3 inches or more taller than their parents and 'grow' faster but have higher risk of learning disabilities There's also XXX females, also about 1/1000 chance, also mature faster but tend to have language disabilities. You can even have a mix of 46 and 47 pairs (mosaic). SRY transcription factor is your friend, it's the sex-determining gene in Y chromosome. Recombination can do weird things. SRY being moved to X or not being expressed are not unheard of, but extremely rare.
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May 3, 2016 21:34
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Do you mean like trans women who choose not to have their genitals operated on? Transexual is a vague term and has fallen out of favor for basically the ambiguity you describe. A person can have gender-related dysphoria with their body, but find other sex-related aspects more distressing than their genitals. Perhaps the absence of breasts or the presence of lots of body hair distress a trans woman more than her genitalia. Perhaps a trans man's small frame or lack of beard is more disturbing to him than his possession of a vagina. If you use a purely genital-based definition of sex, these people are not transsexual, but they are clearly experiencing bodily dysphoria related to physical characteristics of gender. This is why the community has moved toward "transgendered" or even just generically "trans" over "transsexual", and why there is this argument about whether genitals dictate gender. The argument is simply that one can identify as a gender, present and live as that gender, and experience psychological pain from their opposite-gendered features while still being perfectly happy with their genitalia, and that following from that we should not identify people's genders by their genitals because for basically all purposes other than sex-having they aren't relevant to anyone other than the person themselves. It literally shouldn't matter one way or the other to anyone except my sexual partner which parts I have, from which it necessarily follows that my sexual organs are not the primary factor constituting my gender. That's the best succinct description I've seen.
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May 3, 2016 22:06
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Ytlaya posted:It isn't that hard to explain how gender roles could be arbitrary/determined by society and people could also inherently identify as a particular gender. What likely happens is a person has some innate idea of what biological sex they identify with and then their views on gender roles are informed by society just like with any other person. So, for example, a transwoman does not inherently like dresses or the color pink. Instead, she simply identifies as a woman and then society informs her that these are things that women should like. The only thing that is inherent is the feeling that, on a at least a psychological level, the person should be a particular sex. This is related to basis for the "trans exclusionary radical feminist" argument, afaik---if you have a theory of feminism that seeks to decouple birth sex and gender roles, transpeople adopting a new gender role to fit their preferred sex identity completely undermines it*. Which makes sense and isn't really controversial (the controversial part starts with arguments that MtF trans are using the patriarchy to appropriate the female struggle or w/e, i have no clue but it gets weird).
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May 3, 2016 22:15
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A big flaming stink posted:sexchange surgery is never ever covered by insurance (in the US) Rarely, but not never.
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May 4, 2016 02:12
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Slanderer posted:This is related to basis for the "trans exclusionary radical feminist" argument, afaik---if you have a theory of feminism that seeks to decouple birth sex and gender roles, transpeople adopting a new gender role to fit their preferred sex identity completely undermines it*. Which makes sense and isn't really controversial (the controversial part starts with arguments that MtF trans are using the patriarchy to appropriate the female struggle or w/e, i have no clue but it gets weird).
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May 4, 2016 06:10
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wiregrind posted:So they're transphobic bigots; just like the anti-feminist sexists?
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May 4, 2016 13:54
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Ograbme posted:Much like North Carolina republicans, TERFs really are afraid of MtFs infiltrating women's spaces to rape them. These are the peeps that think that rape has to equal penetration, right? Joke's on them, girlie hormones have killed my penis, I can't get that sucker up anymore, lol! Good luck penetrating stuff with a limp noodle!
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May 4, 2016 17:56
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wiregrind posted:So they're transphobic bigots; just like the anti-feminist sexists? Basically. Being charitable and condensing a lot of what I've read, they believe that there is "something" feminine which is "somewhat" intrinsic via life experiences, and hence cannot be adopted. Something like menarche, living under the shadow of your overbearing mother, experiencing the patriarchy from an early age, etc. have not been experienced by MtF trans folks, and hence they are not part of The Struggle. They are late comers trying to adopt/co-opt a space that was for "women" and "women" alone, are rejecting their hatred of themselves by trying to transform into "the good", trying to absolve themselves as bring part of the problem Rachel Dolezal style, etc. If gender is a social construct, TERFs don't believe that trans people have participated in that social construct, or should be allowed to. Being uncharitable, they're afraid that a bunch of "men" are going to show up and call them sexist for not wanting to have sex with them, "because they're lesbians now". gently caress TERFs. Whatever minor points about shared experience and the nature of "womanhood" that could be interesting for discussion that they might have are completely undermined by their treatment of a terribly oppressed minority group. What could be an interesting discussion in the vein of "What was it like to grow up as a young woman in Iran? What was it like to grow up with no mother and two fathers?" shouldn't be used for bigotry.
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May 4, 2016 18:56
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Thalantos posted:These are the peeps that think that rape has to equal penetration, right? I believe the technical term is "pushing rope".
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May 5, 2016 01:07
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wiregrind posted:So they're transphobic bigots; just like the anti-feminist sexists? TERFs generally believe something along the lines that people who are born sexually female and live female lives are uniquely oppressed by society, and that that experience is what defines them as women, at least to an extremely significant degree. Which, arguably, is correct. I imagine there's a lot of variance and not all women would necessarily like being categorized like that, but you can see why people would think that about themselves and you can certainly apply the idea in feminist theories. The objectionable part is that when you have people who identify as female but lack female sexual characteristics and may spend the majority of their lives passing for male, and thus receiving male privilege, TERFs have a bit of a problem because some of them don't like the notion that their theory of womanliness doesn't apply to all women, and they get really... weird about people identifying as women without having lived as women all their lives. This is very much at odds with a lot of third wave feminism and especially feminism as it relates to trans issues which tends to favor the idea that gender roles are damaging to everyone as far as they are enforced by society, and that while women are generally on the lovely end of the stick as far as gender roles go, the overall goal should be to liberate everybody from them and that ideally, the TERF method of self-identification would stop being valid because women would not have a unique experience characterized heavily by oppression. And further that trans people are arguably a vanguard of breaking down that strict, prescriptive form of gender roles and that should be celebrated as an achievement, even quite apart from the benefits to the individual from being able to present as the gender they identify with.
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May 5, 2016 02:12
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The issue with TERFs is that while transwomen might not have grown up dealing with the struggle of being women (as society sees women and deals with them), they have still grown up not fitting in, dealing with a whole host of issues cis women will never have to deal with, and then after transitioning now having to deal with most every problem cis women also encounter. That's exactly what calls for intersectionality, but instead we see exclusion.
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May 5, 2016 06:25
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OwlFancier posted:TERFs have a bit of a problem because some of them don't like the notion that their theory of womanliness doesn't apply to all women
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May 5, 2016 09:50
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Guavanaut posted:This is also why there's a large crossover between TERFs and White Feminists, and why some African women eventually said "gently caress this" and split off to form Womanism when they got tired of White Feminists explaining to them "no, you're actually oppressed because of these reasons and these reasons alone try to keep up or you'll never break patriarchy what do you mean your experiences are completely different?" The exact same thing that happened to Bernie Sanders with black voters. Interesting.
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May 5, 2016 14:38
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