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Finished. For now, this fucker will be going on my periodical reread list. What a strange and captivating book.
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May 18, 2016 17:13
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Groke posted:Finished. For now, this fucker will be going on my periodical reread list. What a strange and captivating book. If you have not done Sea of Fertility get on that poo poo
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May 18, 2016 17:23
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Mel Mudkiper posted:If you have not done Sea of Fertility get on that poo poo This was my first Mishima but sure as poo poo won't be my last.
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May 18, 2016 17:28
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I finished this last night. Mishima is great although I think I preferred Sailor to this. One thing I really liked about Temple was how well Mishima portrays mental illness. All through the novel, Mizoguchi has his own internal logic justifying how he thinks and feels about things. It's always insane, but e.g. his weird persecution complex re: the Superior totally makes sense to him. I've known a couple of people who were mentally ill in a similar way (although nowhere near as extreme) and it totally ties in with that way of obsessing over things that no-one else would even notice let alone hang their whole worldview on.
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May 19, 2016 08:57
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It's also nice to have the ambiguity of it because there is never any external confirmation, only a few observations that in no way rationally lead to the conclusions Mizoguchi makes. It doesn't quite add up, but who else do we have to go on? His paranoia was particularly well-preserved when spying on the cigarette kid or finding the superior in prayer. There's a certain logic in thinking someone is acting for your sake, but only a genuinely disturbed mind goes through the mental gymnastics necessary to assume the motivations and actions make sense and are solely in concert with one's own thinking.
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May 19, 2016 17:26
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Need suggestions for next month As before, preferred candidates are available on eBook format, ideal candidates are available as free ebooks.
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May 19, 2016 19:14
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quit loving a child and read some physical books
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May 19, 2016 21:21
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quit loving a child and read some physical books also written within a human lifetime
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May 19, 2016 21:33
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mcustic posted:A little bit of context about Mizoguchi's background: [...] So don't disregard all that when you consider the social context of Mizoguchi's tormented existence. Corrode posted:All through the novel, Mizoguchi has his own internal logic Nakar posted:It's also nice to have the ambiguity of it because there is never any external confirmation, only a few observations that in no way rationally lead to the conclusions Mizoguchi makes. It doesn't quite add up, but who else do we have to go on? Seriously?
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May 20, 2016 16:14
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House Louse posted:Seriously? Could you please explain?
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May 20, 2016 17:22
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Please tell me he thought they were confusing Mishima with Mizoguchi
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May 20, 2016 17:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Please tell me he thought they were confusing Mishima with Mizoguchi I'm on the edge of my seat E: my only other guess is that he is my high school English teacher who would pointedly remind you that it was the character who was doing something, in case you were retarded and thought Macbeth was nonfiction. Living Image fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 20, 2016 |
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May 20, 2016 18:50
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Mel Mudkiper posted:quit loving a child and read some physical books also written within a human lifetime Such as
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May 20, 2016 19:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Such as Aquarium by David Vann The let the Vann Clan grow
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May 20, 2016 20:29
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Han Kang just won the Booker international and we've not had a woman this year. Let's read The Vegetarian.
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May 20, 2016 20:38
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How about we let Mel set the BsOTM until he fucks up. I mean arguably picking a book that I couldn't buy constitutes loving up, but I had a few days' worth of adventures and ended up reading it eventually so he wins this round.
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May 20, 2016 21:12
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Nakar posted:How about we let Mel set the BsOTM until he fucks up. I mean arguably picking a book that I couldn't buy constitutes loving up, but I had a few days' worth of adventures and ended up reading it eventually so he wins this round. I appreciate it, but to be fair my general tastes can be kind of narrow when considering the scope of the subforum.
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May 20, 2016 21:26
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Nakar posted:How about we let Mel set the BsOTM until he fucks up. I mean arguably picking a book that I couldn't buy constitutes loving up, but I had a few days' worth of adventures and ended up reading it eventually so he wins this round. If & when I drop off the face of the earth one thing I've learned that I hope whoever takes over remembers is that the process of going through the nomination/voting process makes for *much* higher participation. It can be the exact same book, but if I just throw it up there, it'll get a tenth of the responses as if it goes through the nominating process and people vote for it and say they'll read it. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 20, 2016 |
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May 20, 2016 21:32
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but let's be real here I do have the best taste out of everyone
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May 20, 2016 21:37
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durr i brain gud I'm reading The Death and Life of Great American Cities at the moment, that's pretty interesting even if it is a bit old.
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May 21, 2016 16:49
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Corrode posted:Han Kang just won the Booker international and we've not had a woman this year. Let's read The Vegetarian. I've read it, and it's a great book, but one I need to re-read so yeah it still gets my vote.
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May 22, 2016 11:01
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Corrode posted:Han Kang just won the Booker international and we've not had a woman this year. Let's read The Vegetarian. Actually, I second this.
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May 23, 2016 14:37
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Corrode posted:Han Kang just won the Booker international and we've not had a woman this year. Let's read The Vegetarian. I just googled that poo poo and it looks intriguing enough, so I say aye to that.
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May 23, 2016 15:15
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Another vote for the Vegetarian here.
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May 24, 2016 21:02
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I was whining in the other thread about no women BotM's so I came in here to nominate one (on the last day of the month because I am also dumb as well as whiney) but y'all already nominated a good one. So I vote for that too (the Vegetarian, to clarify).
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May 31, 2016 16:26
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Guy A. Person posted:I was whining in the other thread about no women BotM's so I came in here to nominate one (on the last day of the month because I am also dumb as well as whiney) but y'all already nominated a good one. So I vote for that too (the Vegetarian, to clarify). I rigged the election this month, all the nominees were from female authors.
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May 31, 2016 17:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I rigged the election this month, all the nominees were from female authors. 
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May 31, 2016 17:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I rigged the election this month, all the nominees were from female authors. Next month we should do LaRose anyways so there that's a twofer
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May 31, 2016 17:50
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People reading this book anbd being like "drat mishima does such an interesting depiction of mental illn ess or whatever" you are doing the dullest reading of this book and you should reconsider.
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May 31, 2016 18:36
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CestMoi posted:People reading this book anbd being like "drat mishima does such an interesting depiction of mental illn ess or whatever" you are doing the dullest reading of this book and you should reconsider. Share with us your reading
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May 31, 2016 18:38
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I think that the Superior went to the secluded spot in the garden (last chapter) to JO in peace, but Mizuguchi misinterpreted his gestures as a lesson in humility. Thanks for reading my reading.
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May 31, 2016 18:43
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Share with us your reading Now why would I do something like that
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Jun 1, 2016 04:08
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mcustic posted:I think that the Superior went to the secluded spot in the garden (last chapter) to JO in peace, but Mizuguchi misinterpreted his gestures as a lesson in humility. Thanks for reading my reading. In my shame I really thought that was going to be the reveal at that point. Just finished and I'm just going to ramble. I was expecting a clear fascist line on the book, but it ambled on in a nothingness. So it was nihilism, but confused. I guess the philosophy Mishima was articulating was that beauty is in the mind, and that whatever physical beauty existed, it just got in the way of the 'idea'. Towards the end of the book it came alive, particularly with Kashiwagi's peroration. It seemed for a moment that this would stall or change Mizoguchi's resolve, but the idea that knowledge was the way instead seems to reinforce this kind of Platonic ideal of mind over experience. In the end though, Mishima seemed to be articulating an incoherent mishmash of out of date philosophy.
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Jun 1, 2016 23:02
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Out of date my rear end.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:53
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Next month we should do LaRose anyways so there that's a twofer That would be rad and I promise to actually vote in the proper thread in a timely fashion
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Jun 3, 2016 15:47
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the_homemaster posted:Out of date my rear end. Your rear end is a fine thing I hear! Mishima would presumably approve. If you take the line that Mishima was articulating a kind of Philosophy based on Parmenides/Plato, where life is unchanging or ideas are paramount - then for sure this is out of date. It's almost as if he rejects the concept that a particular object can be beautiful - he has to abstract it. I guess it's open to debate whether Nietzsche is/was out of date in 1956, or whether Mishima was really following such a thread. Would be interesting to hear why it resonates for you though.
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Jun 3, 2016 16:24
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He doesn't reject the idea that a particular object can be beautiful, he repeatedly states that the Golden Temple IS Beauty for him. The books definitely got some platonic stuff going on but saying its out of date philosophically because of that is a bit weird, it's coming at it from a very strange angle and through a decidedly Buddhist lens so it's hardly like you can be like "ah but what about the third man Mishima checkmate buddy"
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Jun 3, 2016 19:02
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My reviewquote:I know I'm too old for it, but I'm going through my nihilist/existentialist phase now in my late twenties. This book really hits the spot. It's about two things: beauty and death. Or three things if you count beauty in death. It actually reminded me of Catcher in the Rye, but not terrible and way more intelligent. The protagonist is similar in terms of having a young brashness, a certain naivety. It's beautifully written with so many perfect sentences/paragraphs. Absolutely a book I will read again. This is a great book because of the philosophy, and yes the Buddhist angle was unique. I think saying that a philosophy is out of date is a bit stupid though. What are you basing it on? What's the most up to date philosophy doing the rounds? Who are the cool kids thinking like? The nihilism is beautiful in this. It makes me think that Stoicism and nihilism aren't far removed. There are some ripper lines too, I mean: "The special quality of hell is to see everything clearly down to the last detail.” “Anything can become excusable when seen from the standpoint of the result” “Other people must be destroyed. In order that I might truly face the sun, the world itself must be destroyed....” “To see human beings in agony, to see them covered in blood and to hear their death groans, makes people humble. It makes their spirits delicate, bright, peaceful. It's never at such times that we become cruel or bloodthirsty. No, it's on a beautiful spring afternoon like this that people suddenly become cruel. It's at a moment like this, don't you think, while one's vaguely watching the sun as it peeps through the leaves of the trees above a well-mown lawn? Every possible nightmare in the world, every possible nightmare in history, has come into being like this.” “When people concentrate on the idea of beauty, they are, without realizing it, confronted with the darkest thoughts that exist in this world. That, I suppose, is how human beings are made.” “Insensitive people are only upset when they actually see the blood, but actually by the time that the blood has been shed the tragedy has already completed.” (this hit me hard regarding veganism actually) “I was born with gloomy nature. I do not think I have ever known what it is to be cheerful and at ease.” "But human beings do need something, and with knowledge they can make the very intolerableness of life a weapon, though at the same time that intolerableness is not reduced in the slightest." "As I gazed at her soft sash, which hung down in the back, I wondered what it was that made Mother so particularly ugly. Then I understood. What made her ugly was - hope. Incurable hope, like an onstinate case of scabies, which lodges, damp and reddish, in the infected skin, producing a constant itching and refusing to yield to any outer force." And a hole poo poo ton more quotes. It really got me, I think I maybe got it though I didn't know how to read it, and it certainly broadened my mind a little. A fascinating journey.
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Jun 4, 2016 02:38
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It's not about catching out Mishama - he's going to come out on top of any pissing contest for sure and it's fantastically written, but it's impossible to read this book without the context of the events of 15 years later. It's a bloody big elephant in the room. I can't agree that the nihilism is beautiful at all. I see Kashiwagi's discussion towards the end of the book as a rejection of that and far more beautiful than what came before, but then Mizoguchi discards that and proceeds with the destruction anyway. Mishima takes that up in a glorious destruction of himself. I can accept the beauty of the words, but can't accept the destructive nihilism inherent in the decisions of Mizoguchi and reject the idea of 'beauty in death' - that reality does not really correspond to most people's experience of mortality.
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Jun 4, 2016 10:58
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Umm yeah that's because most people are weak fools? How does seppuku render the book differently? the_homemaster fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 11:48
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