|
jBrereton posted:What is An RTS Anymore to you? Meaningful choices, soft counters, assymterical sides, interesting mechanics (veterncy, directional cover, suppression, well designed resourcing systems) Basically not StarCraft.
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:34 |
|
|
Perestroika posted:Xenos are in fact cool and good, while Space Marines have become bland and boring. I will crush all your Spirit stones under the treads of a million Leman Russ Battle Tanks. IF THEY WERE IN THIS GAME Bleusilences posted:It doesnt excuse it but wasn't THQ's idea in the first place to make COH2 a dlc paradise and they just followed this design through the lifespan of the game? Judging by the DLC plans of the recent Total war games I think Sega plays a pretty big part.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 13:38
|
|
|
Soulfucker posted:have you ever seen a warhammer product Have you? Compare it to the DOW2 trailer, which has a coherent narrative to accompany the at-times excessive on-screen murder.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 13:49
|
|
|
Man Whore posted:I will crush all your Spirit stones under the treads of a million Leman Russ Battle Tanks. DoW2 Retribution turned into a DLC fest before Sega were involved too. It's inevitable with DoW3.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
But what will be the amazing preorder bonus if there won't be any gear items anymore?!
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Have you? "Everyone dies, all is pointless" was basically the DOW2 cinematic as well dude.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:"Everyone dies, all is pointless" was basically the DOW2 cinematic as well dude. It's 40k grimdark
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:04
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:"Everyone dies, all is pointless" was basically the DOW2 cinematic as well dude. No it isn't.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:07
|
|
|
sassassin posted:No it isn't. True, it has a bunch of bugs show up to further highlight how pointless flamethrowing faces was.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
They die for the immortal god emperor. Its far from pointless. 
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:09
|
|
|
The sense of bleak pointlessness to it all seemed intentional to me. No matter which side you're on, in the end you all fall into the same hole.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:10
|
|
|
Eldar fall in a very different hole than space marines.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
Man Whore posted:Eldar fall in a very different hole than space marines. A well lubed one atleast
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:20
|
|
|
I liked Dawn of War 2's campaign when I first played it but I reinstalled it during a recent free weekend in hopes of getting someone to play it coop and I couldn't stand more than 5 minutes of it before being bored out of my skull. I was never a huge fan but I've never been as down on a game I liked the first time around as I was on DoW2 so I don't really know what happened there.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:35
|
|
|
You're stupid and probably depressed so it won't allow you to enjoy a good game.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:47
|
|
|
Eh, thanks mods.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:Not being able to handle using say, a group of 10 units the same way you would a single unit isn't really the games fault It's more that if we're using DoW1 multiplayer as a reference, winning in DoW1 was largely a matter of effectively rushing your opponent's production down by hitting certain unit types in your build order before the enemy could react appropriately. Rolling into the enemy base and torching their barracks with an early vehicle rush or stomping all of their resource points and choking them out with an early Khorne Berserker push was how the vast majority of games were won, with games devolving into slugfests only if an initial rush failed. At this point you generally settled into building a gigantic monotonous blob of whatever your highest tier spammable units were with some vehicle support and trying to outblob your opponent. Individual unit losses don't really matter here and positioning outside of using the cover system is pretty whatever because you can spam reinforce in the field. DoW2's multiplayer mechanics almost expressly forbid rushing an opponent out of the game because the base structure is incredibly difficult to kill and protected by extremely annoying turrets. Instead, DoW2 is centered entirely around map control and chipping away at the enemy's forces; in effect, the enemy's army became the target objective. Brand new units in DoW2 multiplayer are expensive and take a fair amount of time to produce, but upgrading and replacing lost troops in an existing unit takes significantly less resources and time, with the caveat that you can't replace lost units in the field without specific abilities/vehicles so you need to maintain contact with HQ. This means that every single unit you produce is really important and achieving full unit wipes before an enemy can disengage matters a great deal, so how you position and approach combat matters a lot outside of merely using the cover system. Achieving a flank on the enemy so they don't have a clear retreat path for battered units is enormously dangerous for them in DoW2. Basically, DoW1 multiplayer is a game all about crippling the enemy's ability to produce hard counters to whatever unit you happen to be producing at a given point, while DoW2 multiplayer is a game all about how to outmaneuver and inflict decisive damage against the enemy's army.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:A well lubed one atleast Do you think love can bloom on the battlefield? 
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:04
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:True, it has a bunch of bugs show up to further highlight how pointless flamethrowing faces was. The Space Marines have an obvious objective, the Eldar have an objective, one side wins and then a bigger foe appears. Narrative. Proceed to level 2. This trailer is just a series of gorey murders with no sense of place or progression. It's just stuff happening until everything is dead. If that's the game I have no interest in it.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
This thread is people bitching about trailers and "what is an RTS?" when we just had the glory of a new DoW game dropped on us. Behold the grimdark awesomeness and rejoice in the power of the Emperor you heretics. sassassin posted:This trailer is just a series of gorey murders with no sense of place or progression. It's just stuff happening until everything is dead. If that's the game I have no interest in it. Yup. Because the actual game will just be bodies raining from the sky and then you click ok and the credits roll. It was obviously a dream/nightmare sequence of some sort. Holy hell you guys are taking this waaaayyy too literally.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:07
|
|
|
sassassin posted:The Space Marines have an obvious objective, the Eldar have an objective, one side wins and then a bigger foe appears. Narrative. Proceed to level 2. Never play a multiplayer game, bro. Ever.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:08
|
|
|
bear is driving! posted:Yup. Because the actual game will just be bodies raining from the sky and then you click ok and the credits roll. I'm judging tone and content. I haven't said anything about "bodies raining from the sky". My main complaint is actually the absence of anything establishing what might happen in the game itself. The trailer is just gore porn designed to titillate children.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
bear is driving! posted:This thread is people bitching about trailers and "what is an RTS?" when we just had the glory of a new DoW game dropped on us. yes, the grimdark awesomeness of what looks like a little child's toys 
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:18
|
|
|
sassassin posted:I'm judging tone and content. I haven't said anything about "bodies raining from the sky". My main complaint is actually the absence of anything establishing what might happen in the game itself. The trailer is just gore porn designed to titillate children. Because it's an announcement trailer you prissy weirdo. And your complaint was actually about the pointless violence which has been in all of DoW's trailers, announcement or otherwise. You're making 2's trailer out to be much deeper and story lead than it ever actually was.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:21
|
|
|
Blacktoll posted:You're stupid and probably depressed so it won't allow you to enjoy a good game. Yikes
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:Because it's an announcement trailer you prissy weirdo. 3 minute long trailers are not immune from analysis. What's the point if potential consumers aren't supposed to react to them? Defensive bunch, aren't you.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
sassassin posted:3 minute long trailers are not immune from analysis. What's the point if potential consumers aren't supposed to react to them? It's more that your argument is weird and you're making a comparison that doesn't work. Dawn of War has always been about pointless violence, none of its media has portrayed the series otherwise. DoW 3 is more abstract about things but you stomp your foot and suddenly declare this as the tipping point.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
It's kind of sad that even from the initial announcement you can tell this game will be a mediocre attempt from a studio that has no talent left. Dumbing down the cover system to capturable bunkers that provide full-protection only, and simplifying gameplay to make it "easier to see what's going on" are both just lol. One day someone will actually revive the RTS genre, but this game ain't gonna do it.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:39
|
|
|
HMS Boromir posted:I liked Dawn of War 2's campaign when I first played it but I reinstalled it during a recent free weekend in hopes of getting someone to play it coop and I couldn't stand more than 5 minutes of it before being bored out of my skull. I was never a huge fan but I've never been as down on a game I liked the first time around as I was on DoW2 so I don't really know what happened there. The DoW 2 campaign starts you off really, really slow. It doesn't start getting interesting until at least like an hour in, IIRC. And the Retribution campaign was mostly just bad, Orc storyline aside. OTOH, the first two DoW campaigns are by the number RTS campaign snoozefests, Dark Crusade has some cool ideas ruined by the agony of hero rushing enemy bases over and over again before they start spewing out literal endless hordes of enemies you can only beat by slowly wading through for an hour and a half or more. Soulstorm was just Dark Crusades again except (thankfully) getting rid of the perpetual bases and then everything else being horrible. (And I have beaten Soulstorm many times over, so believe me I know, I know...)
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Davincie posted:yes, the grimdark awesomeness of what looks like a little child's toys Looks pretty spot on for the table top. Cautiously optimistic for this but I have my doubts after what happened with COH2.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
poptart_fairy posted:It's more that your argument is weird and you're making a comparison that doesn't work. Dawn of War has always been about pointless violence, none of its media has portrayed the series otherwise. DoW 3 is more abstract about things but you stomp your foot and suddenly declare this as the tipping point. The other two involve a fight that's scaled appropriately with the game. This one really only has the knights and don't give a feel for how big an actual force will be.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:46
|
|
|
Boy I can't wait for some gameplay videos so we can stop analyzing a CGI killfest. An awesome CGI killfest. Anyone know when exactly the next issue of PCGamer is? Is it this month or next?
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
Phrosphor posted:Meaningful choices, soft counters, assymterical sides, interesting mechanics (veterncy, directional cover, suppression, well designed resourcing systems)
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
sassassin posted:I'm judging tone and content.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:50
|
|
|
I think the visuals look fine? I mean, yes, they're still in the early stages, but the models themselves look good, and Relic has always done great unit animations. After seeing how good the painterly style of units in hte Total Warhammer gameplay trailers looked, I am fine with Relic adopting the style for Dawn of War 3. More silly, less usesless grimdark.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Dumbing down the cover system to capturable bunkers that provide full-protection only If this is true and cover is gone then what a waste of everyone's time.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Senseless violence and death in war? What the gently caress  Megasabin posted:It's kind of sad that even from the initial announcement you can tell this game will be a mediocre attempt from a studio that has no talent left. Dumbing down the cover system to capturable bunkers that provide full-protection only, and simplifying gameplay to make it "easier to see what's going on" are both just lol. The sad thing is that the multiplayer of DoW2 was hugely innovative and revitalized the genre in a big way but welp, back to base-building and simplistic mechanics I guess. I know there's a market out there for people who just want to move big blobs around and watch stuff explode but it's disappointing to hear that the franchise will be regressing so much.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
BillBear posted:But seriously, I hope this doesn't suck, huge armies are a welcome return. Hell yes. If the warhams game corpse count isn't at least on par with below, it's a bad hamgame.  
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
Phrosphor posted:If this is true and cover is gone then what a waste of everyone's time. From the PC Gamer article: "Relic RTS games tend to have complex terrain with lots of medium and strong cover zones. The system has been simplified in Dawn of War 3 to allow for clearer counter-play. Cover in the demo I saw consisted of circular barricade structures that units can capture. Units in cover are resistant to ranged fire, but can be quickly eliminated by close-combat squads. The change makes Dawn of War 3's big, chaotic battlefields easier to parse, and gives melee units an important role as siege-breakers. " I'll translate for you for free: "We think gamers were too stupid to understand high vs low cover built into the environment in an organic way, so we changed to to a giant flashing cover objects to make it easier!". "Also CoH was a fluke success, and we have no understanding of what made our games good, fun, interesting, and unique".
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:34 |
|
|
Corvo posted:Senseless violence and death in war? What the gently caress Ashes of the singularity and grey goo are two examples of big "blockbuster" RTS games that followed a pretty traditional format and didn't really light the world on fire. So there is a precedent not to do the big blobs and base building thing again, but that won't stop them trying.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 15:57
|
|