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8-Bit Scholar posted:Would fantasy be popular at all if not for that one artist who drew really great lady butts and dragons and muscle men? Frank Frazetta?
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May 17, 2016 20:50
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Tasoth posted:Frank Frazetta? That's the one! I liked his stuff. It's sad he is dead.
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May 17, 2016 21:23
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Howard's influence is gaining ground right now in published work. His pessimism and preoccupation with the rise and fall of civilizations is resonating with people a lot better nowadays. Might have something to do with how Howard came up through the crazy decadence of the Texas oil boom juxtaposed with the woes of the Great Depression, and we are currently living through economic decline and a publicly corrupt upper class. Just look at the West's obsession with the collapse of civilization and punishment of the naivete that comes with relying on civilized practices. Everyone is fantasizing about the return of Howard's "barbarian" where the only way to live well in a broken world is to be on the outside. Tolkien's influence got fantasy off the ground, but now it's Howard's time to shine. Probably too many words or whatever for a GBS post, but I happen to be writing a paper about this Howard's modern influence for a class.
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May 17, 2016 21:26
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I think new fantasy was hip for awhile, Neil Gaiman was everybody's darling for a decade and some change. China Mieville wrote cool books about loving insect ladies and giant cactus men and sado-masochistic pirates.
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May 17, 2016 21:28
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I think new fantasy was hip for awhile, Neil Gaiman was everybody's darling for a decade and some change. China Mieville wrote cool books about loving insect ladies and giant cactus men and sado-masochistic pirates. Yeah. Perdido Street station and The Scar are rad, and iron council has some decent bits. Mieville is amazing at monsters. It's a shame his characters are all so unlikable, because his world design is so amazing. I can't tell you a personality trait of any of his protagonists besides 'kind of a jerk', but I can tell you every kind of weird monster he's ever come up with. Kraken was uneven but fun to read. It's basically taking the piss out of Gaiman-esque fantasy. The City and The City was fun. I really like detective stories with some magical realism - The Yiddish Policeman's union, by Michael chabon, is my favorite in this vein.
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May 17, 2016 21:35
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If you don't mind the verse format, and the fact that it is a sequel of sorts, Arisoto's Orlando Furioso is a surprisingly modern fantasy story with mythical creatures, globetrotting adventures, war, romance, and shithead wizards. On top of those elements it has multiple story threads and explores, and critiques, chivalric ideals, war, honor, and love. It also has some cool characters, like Bradamente a female knight that storms a castle to rescue her love, rather than the other way around. Not technically fantasy since it is based in 8th century Carolingian France, but it has enough fantastical elements in it I think it counts. And it did have influences on later authors, not just those in the 16th and 17th centuries. Also, Howard's stuff is pretty fun!
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May 17, 2016 21:45
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Eela6 posted:Yeah. Perdido Street station and The Scar are rad, and iron council has some decent bits. Mieville is amazing at monsters. It's a shame his characters are all so unlikable, because his world design is so amazing. I can't tell you a personality trait of any of his protagonists besides 'kind of a jerk', but I can tell you every kind of weird monster he's ever come up with.
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May 17, 2016 21:48
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Eela6 posted:Yeah. Perdido Street station and The Scar are rad, and iron council has some decent bits. Mieville is amazing at monsters. It's a shame his characters are all so unlikable, because his world design is so amazing. I can't tell you a personality trait of any of his protagonists besides 'kind of a jerk', but I can tell you every kind of weird monster he's ever come up with. I liked UnLunDun quite a lot, it's sort of a send-up of a typical young adult fantasy.
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May 17, 2016 23:05
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Is Hyperion a good time or is it a bad time thinking about reading it
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May 18, 2016 00:04
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I'm rereading the Dresden files, there's nothing else like it so good
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May 18, 2016 07:46
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Embassytown had good characterisation imo and is also the best genre fiction novel in years There's something wonderful about Embassytown, it scratches an itch I never knew I had. Anyway I can't find it now, but a while back mieville wrote a little piece on the things Tolkien did well, and at the top of the list was monsters. It was a relief in an odd sort of way because until then mieville had seemed quite anti-Tolkien and it made me feel like a kid when mum & dad are fighting again. Oh gosh. Anyone else get the sense that Sanderson doesn't so much write action as describe action scenes from a movie he's playing inside his head? Something about the pacing...
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May 18, 2016 09:59
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There is no western fantasy canon without LOTR. All genre fiction has a blueprint.Falun Bong Refugee posted:What I meant was by 19 Shelley was reading Plutarch's lives and Prometheus unbound while GRRM was reading THE GREATEST COMIC MAGAZINE IN THE WORLD, and that's why he's a hack. Her literary training as an upper class Englishwoman was probably heads and shoulders above the best kind of similar education offered today.
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May 18, 2016 10:22
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if you want fantasy that's different from lotro you could always read some scifi. yes, scifi is a subgenre of fantasy you loving nerds.
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May 18, 2016 10:35
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Tasoth posted:Frank Frazetta? also Boris Vallejo. I love Boris Vallejo. He paints such trash, and he's so good at it. Nobody can airbrush barbarian pecs better than Boris Vallejo.
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May 18, 2016 10:35
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May 18, 2016 10:39
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Best fantasy setting hands down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_t605Th-QI&t=175s
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May 18, 2016 10:40
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noctambulous nebab posted:There is no western fantasy canon without LOTR. All genre fiction has a blueprint. Literary training is worthless. It's entirely unnecessary. You either are or are not a good writer.
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May 18, 2016 10:41
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Panzeh posted:Literary training is worthless. It's entirely unnecessary. You either are or are not a good writer. Access to books and literature and knowledge were exclusive to the upper classes before the 20th century. High standards of learning and discipline were also in place to justify the division of access to knowledge. You can't realize a talent in something you've had no exposure to. So it's not true and also it depends on the kind of writing you are talking about. Our cultural output is primarily interchangeable genre fiction and it's a fact that instead of modern classics we have commodities and trends. Shelley and GRRM are both products of their environment.
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May 18, 2016 10:51
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Tasoth posted:Frank Frazetta? Thanks for reminding me of Frazetta. As a kid I remember reading a halfway decent Conan knock off about a Barbarian living in a valley far before the age of Atlantis and fighting a slaver empire who's symbol was the butterfly. That valley was to become the Mediterranean Sea in future years. Thanks to looking through Frazetta's paintings idly I found the series I never got to finish.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Dealer_(painting)#Roleplaying quote:Novels
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May 18, 2016 11:01
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Panzeh posted:Literary training is worthless. It's entirely unnecessary. You either are or are not a good writer. that isn't true at all. Imagine all the painters born before the modern understanding of perspective was developed. If you aren't exposed to a technique, you have to invent it yourself, and nobody is going to independently invent all the myriad tools that good art requires.
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May 18, 2016 11:06
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noctambulous nebab posted:Access to books and literature and knowledge were exclusive to the upper classes before the 20th century. High standards of learning and discipline were also in place to justify the division of access to knowledge. Novel writing is the way of the past. No doubt you're stuck there. The new art is shitposting, and believe me, you're bad at it.
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May 18, 2016 12:37
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Panzeh posted:Novel writing is the way of the past. No doubt you're stuck there. Wonderful response thank you.
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May 18, 2016 12:38
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