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Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!
What pricepoint is HTC/Occulus trying to hit with their VR things? I'm interested in a Vive/VR but not at $800 a pop. Is it safe to assume that this first generation is extra expensive because of the early adopter tax and that maybe next year Vive v2 will come out for <$600? Have they ever mentioned how low they expect their VR devices to go? I imagine it'd have to be <$400 to hit a wide audience and even then that's probably stretching it because they'll still need a computer to power the things.

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Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Boris Galerkin posted:

What pricepoint is HTC/Occulus trying to hit with their VR things? I'm interested in a Vive/VR but not at $800 a pop. Is it safe to assume that this first generation is extra expensive because of the early adopter tax and that maybe next year Vive v2 will come out for <$600? Have they ever mentioned how low they expect their VR devices to go? I imagine it'd have to be <$400 to hit a wide audience and even then that's probably stretching it because they'll still need a computer to power the things.

Oculus is trying to hit the "not losing money with each marginal unit sold" pricepoint. Some of it's early-adopter tax, some is the limited production volumes relative to something like cellphones, etc.

The PC isn't really that tough a hurdle if you have been playing PC games for a while - it's not going to run on a $300 OEM PC but it's solidly within a "midrange/value-point gaming PC" spec at this point. A 290 or a 970 will run you $200 nowadays. A 5-year-old midrange processor like a 2500k or an FX-8350 is fine if it's unlocked for overclocking. If you need to go out and buy a motherboard/CPU then that's another $200 for a used 2500k+mobo or ~$300 for a new 4690k or 6600K with mobo. You also might be able to recoup a chunk of that by selling your current parts after you upgrade.

If you own literally nothing and want a minimal VR experience as cheaply as possible get a Gear VR ($100 + a nice phone) or a PSVR ($400 + a $400 PS4 console).

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 11, 2016

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?




Boris Galerkin posted:

What pricepoint is HTC/Occulus trying to hit with their VR things? I'm interested in a Vive/VR but not at $800 a pop. Is it safe to assume that this first generation is extra expensive because of the early adopter tax and that maybe next year Vive v2 will come out for <$600? Have they ever mentioned how low they expect their VR devices to go? I imagine it'd have to be <$400 to hit a wide audience and even then that's probably stretching it because they'll still need a computer to power the things.

PSVR is already targetting the lower price point and broader accessibility.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Don't count HTC out, from what I understand the thing is actually pretty cheap to manufacture and they're making a tidy profit from each unit sold so they have room for competitive price cuts. The Rift on the other hand was over-engineered to hell and is sold close to cost, which may have made sense in a marketplace where they had no competition, but they do.

PSVR is interesting, but it has quite a few issues. Interpupillary distance is accounted for in software instead of hardware like the Rift and Vive which limits FOV and can cause visual artifacts. It has a lower resolution, lower FOV and less accurate tracking (particularly rotational tracking which I've hear is particularly floaty) so it limits itself purely to entertainment implementations, while the Vive and Oculus Touch are both accurate enough being sub-millimeter in most cases to be used for actual work. It's likely it'll support PC VR applications too though, Sony's tracking tech has already been reverse engineered and OpenVR/SteamVR allows for community-developed HMD/controller drivers.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

Has Sony indicated if they're going to make the PSVR compatible with the PC at all or is it without question going to be PS4 exclusive?

Also, I know that HTC and Oculus are selling everything they can make so there is no need for a price drop, but has there been any indication of that might be? Or is the thought they'll take the other high-end electronics route and just keep the same price point (more or less) and just improve the features/specs as gens and time goes on?

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

slidebite posted:

Has Sony indicated if they're going to make the PSVR compatible with the PC at all or is it without question going to be PS4 exclusive?

Also, I know that HTC and Oculus are selling everything they can make so there is no need for a price drop, but has there been any indication of that might be? Or is the thought they'll take the other high-end electronics route and just keep the same price point (more or less) and just improve the features/specs as gens and time goes on?

I'd be stunned if the PSVR works with a PC without some hackers helping out.

As for Rift Vive stuff, my bet is that they'll follow the iPhone model, selling new at a similar price, older at a reduced price, with the total prices falling over time.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I would expect a drop in the Rift cost (or a 2nd gen with lower cost) around holiday season of 2017 to correspond with Project Scorpio.

Kodilynn
Sep 29, 2006
I went the cheap route and got a Samsung VR that I use with my 7 Edge and it works really drat well for everything it should. Games and such work fine, 3D movies work great, but it's definitely a novelty. I can't wear it for more than about 45 minutes at most before it becomes uncomfortable to wear/look in. It works while wearing glasses which is nice but they get fogged up really badly if I do. I hope the technology continues to improve but for a $100 alternative to the big buys I'm happy I have it. I'll probably invest in the one Sony provides for the PS4 one way or another, but Oculus and others are just too expensive to justify purchasing.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

VR is amazing! Noone wants to wear the headsets for more than 30 minutes because the graphics look so terrible. It's a great experience!

Tech early adopters are a strange bunch of people.

Nitr0
Aug 17, 2005

IT'S FREE REAL ESTATE
i think it's more about the experience not the graphics tho... what r-tard is like "boy this motion tracking movable device that lets me build and create art, play pool and shoot space pirates sure does look like poo poo. I don't want this on my face no more"

lDDQD
Apr 16, 2006
VR isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, in order to be an actual thriving industry. It very well could be at some point in the future, but it's not there now. Or it could prove to be a fad that ultimately goes nowhere again, like it did in the 90s. You never know with these things, really.

Partially, of course, you've got a chicken-and-egg problem: nobody wants to commit millions to making content for the platform, because the market is so tiny; and the market isn't growing because there's no content.

But there are serious technical problems to solve, too. The headsets are way too big, and too heavy. It gets sweaty inside them quickly, and just uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time. They need to become much lighter (minimally, to the point where the don't require a strap). Displays aren't performing quite as well as anyone would like, either. Both pixel density and latency need to improve. These are problems that can be solved quickly (~2 years or so). The cost also needs to come down. But that's an economics problem, more than anything else.

Much worse is the problem of motion sickness. This is a problem that modern technology can finally solve, but it's very much in an experimental, proof-of-concept state right now. I wouldn't expect it to be mature enough to be ready for mass production in a 2-year time frame. Maybe in 5 years, or so?

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

lDDQD posted:

VR isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, in order to be an actual thriving industry. It very well could be at some point in the future, but it's not there now. Or it could prove to be a fad that ultimately goes nowhere again, like it did in the 90s. You never know with these things, really.

Partially, of course, you've got a chicken-and-egg problem: nobody wants to commit millions to making content for the platform, because the market is so tiny; and the market isn't growing because there's no content.

But there are serious technical problems to solve, too. The headsets are way too big, and too heavy. It gets sweaty inside them quickly, and just uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time. They need to become much lighter (minimally, to the point where the don't require a strap). Displays aren't performing quite as well as anyone would like, either. Both pixel density and latency need to improve. These are problems that can be solved quickly (~2 years or so). The cost also needs to come down. But that's an economics problem, more than anything else.

Much worse is the problem of motion sickness. This is a problem that modern technology can finally solve, but it's very much in an experimental, proof-of-concept state right now. I wouldn't expect it to be mature enough to be ready for mass production in a 2-year time frame. Maybe in 5 years, or so?

Motion sickness is about as solved as it's going to get for a long time if you've got good devs. I have truly awful motion sickness in traditional 3D titles - even super Mario world makes me want to hurl.

In most vr games, however, this problem just doesn't exist. I was really worried about it and it's been a complete non-issue. I get that one anecdote isn't very compelling but it was a big deal for me.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003

mediaphage posted:

Motion sickness is about as solved as it's going to get for a long time if you've got good devs. I have truly awful motion sickness in traditional 3D titles - even super Mario world makes me want to hurl.

In most vr games, however, this problem just doesn't exist. I was really worried about it and it's been a complete non-issue. I get that one anecdote isn't very compelling but it was a big deal for me.

It depends upon what causes your motion sickness as to what will make you suffer. There are several kinds in addition to the "Ear Fluid and Eyes Don't Agree" version. On top of that, each condition is individualistic - the precise symptoms and extents depend on the person suffering moreso than the cause.

This is why its a hard problem to solve in any medium, not just VR. (Also, Super Mario World? The SNES title?)

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

Arsten posted:

It depends upon what causes your motion sickness as to what will make you suffer. There are several kinds in addition to the "Ear Fluid and Eyes Don't Agree" version. On top of that, each condition is individualistic - the precise symptoms and extents depend on the person suffering moreso than the cause.

This is why its a hard problem to solve in any medium, not just VR. (Also, Super Mario World? The SNES title?)

No, I understand all that, but based on my and others' experiences I think vr overcomes or solves a lot more lotion sickness problems than it causes, barring terrible locomotive inputs for the game.

And I meant super Mario 64, sorry. I'm an idiot.

Arsten
Feb 18, 2003

mediaphage posted:

No, I understand all that, but based on my and others' experiences I think vr overcomes or solves a lot more lotion sickness problems than it causes, barring terrible locomotive inputs for the game.

And I meant super Mario 64, sorry. I'm an idiot.

If you don't eat it, you won't get lotion sickness! :v:

I've seen several different types of motion sickness both be not an issue as well as have no change in the Vive. (Most of my family gets motion sickness of some kind.)

PBCrunch
Jun 17, 2002

Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me
I just bought a working Oculus DK2 for $60. I have a GTX 980Ti and a Skylake i5. What is some good software to explore the DK2's capabilities? Project Cars?

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


If I have a Samsung phone and purchased a Gear VR is there anything worthwhile to do with it?

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

PBCrunch posted:

I just bought a working Oculus DK2 for $60. I have a GTX 980Ti and a Skylake i5. What is some good software to explore the DK2's capabilities? Project Cars?

I think everything on the Oculus store works. You should be able to play Steam/OpenVR games too as long as they don't require motion controls.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through
$60 is a great price for that, drat.

Speaking of Oculus, finally got the rift working after owning it since April. I've been playing the Vive since then and jeez, the Rift is a huge letdown for me. The headphones don't reach my ears (I have a big head, but c'mon) so I have to use my own. Which is fine, but having integrated headphones is so, so much nicer in terms of taking the headset on and off. The so-called 'God Rays' are way more noticeable too. That's all minor, though; the lack of tracked controllers makes everything feel less enticing than on the Vive.

Having said that, most of that should get fixed when Touch comes out, and the Rift is muuuuch more comfortable to wear. I suspect I'll appreciate it much more in six months.

Still wondering how ps vr will compare; I suspect it'll be a case of weaker hardware but not mattering because of developer support and sonys leverage.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE
Yeah, I mean, my warning about support is just a heads-up. You should totally go for that, $60 is awesome for an entry-level VR setup. It's not the end-all be-all in terms of quality but you really should not say no at that price if you're remotely interested. If nothing else flip it on eBay and put the money towards a better HMD.

I cannot keep earbuds in while I'm moving around a lot, and I really like using my K7XX over-ear headphones with my Vive. I got a 2-foot 3.5mm-to-mini-XLR cable off eBay and it's perfect, I have some range for getting it on after the putting the headset on, but I don't have a big pile of headphone cable going everywhere. I am getting a cheaper headset (Superlux HD668B) that I won't mind getting soaked with sweat.

I think the "weaker hardware" thing is inevitable since the PS4 is roughly equivalent to a decent circa-2012 gaming PC. But Sony does have clout and they are getting some exclusive titles going. Plus it's a fixed hardware target, which allows better optimizations.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 5, 2016

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Paul MaudDib posted:

I think the "weaker hardware" thing is inevitable since the PS4 is roughly equivalent to a decent circa-2012 gaming PC. But Sony does have clout and they are getting some exclusive titles going. Plus it's a fixed hardware target, which allows better optimizations.

A big thing that people seem to be missing re: PSVR is the utterly terrible motion controls. They're positionally tracked via the camera but rotation is still handled exclusively by the gyro and accelerometers. This means drift, reportedly quite bad drift that requires frequent recalibration to fix. Think Wii Motion Plus but more annoying because they're supposed to be representing the actual position of your hands.

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
If you ask me the entire electronics/gaming industry has trained up consumers to be exceedingly wary and skeptical of hype new products.

I agree with the guy who said VR will live or die on closed systems like consoles. Releasing new, untraditional tech on PC and relying on some other guy to develop software for your hardware is the fastest way to gently caress yourselves up.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

SwissCM posted:

A big thing that people seem to be missing re: PSVR is the utterly terrible motion controls. They're positionally tracked via the camera but rotation is still handled exclusively by the gyro and accelerometers. This means drift, reportedly quite bad drift that requires frequent recalibration to fix. Think Wii Motion Plus but more annoying because they're supposed to be representing the actual position of your hands.

Yeah, this is definitely the first I'd heard of that. As annoying as it is, if the calibration is super quick and easy to do with a button press, it might not be that bad (but I'm sure it will be). The Vive requires calibration half the time I use it as it is.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

mediaphage posted:

The Vive requires calibration half the time I use it as it is.

Huh, I never have to re-do this. If it ever gets off (usually floor height, even that's uncommon) I just restart SteamVR and it's fine again.

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mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through
I just remembered one more thing that I really hate about the Rift - this whole pointing your head to select is MADDENING. It's nauseating.

HalloKitty posted:

Huh, I never have to re-do this. If it ever gets off (usually floor height, even that's uncommon) I just restart SteamVR and it's fine again.

Yeah, it happens a lot to me, and to a couple people I know who bought one after me. It's definitely gotten better over time, though.

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