noctambulous nebab posted:

Let me bring in my man the arbiter.

Pot Of Shoe posted:

I am a God Bitch waiting for my day in the Moon (won't use sun for obvious reasons). If you can't handle me at my broodbirth you don't deserve me at my flesh sloughing. Come, Uterusius my trusty hell steed! Tonight we ride that my titty blasters might taste manflesh this day!

Wicker Man posted:

Why are all the nerdy guys that can't get laid always viewing feminism as the coming of the antichrist

Roylicious posted:

Things are better for women today than they were 100 years ago but we are not "post-feminism."

loquacius posted:

I fundamentally disagree with Morgan Freeman on this one

Talking about things is good. We need to talk about everything. You can't solve any issue by ignoring it. If you pretend race doesn't exist, you end up with a system like (for example) Cuba has, where everyone pretends they're all the same race but the light-skinned ones mysteriously all have the best jobs and the dark-skinned ones coincidentally all have poo poo jobs, and there's no fix in sight because people can't even articulate the problem.

The problem with what we have going on is that people need to talk to people who disagree with them more, so that they don't get caught in a polarization infinite loop and can maybe reach some kind of workable consensus.

Rutibex posted:

there is only so much sexual agency to go around. increasing women sexual agency in society decreases mens, and nerdy guys didnt have a lot to begin with

Rutibex posted:

there is only so much sexual agency to go around. increasing women sexual agency in society decreases mens, and nerdy guys didnt have a lot to begin with

noctambulous nebab posted:

I think this is a very specific point of perspective. In many places of the world, racial equality is taken as a granted. Maybe there are foreigners and non-foreigners. The more that racial difference is used as a focal point for argument, the more the reality of race is distorted.

Is is used for political gain in every sphere as long as it is a hot issue. It takes no thought to accept everyone. It takes thought to differentiate people, and even more to resist that differentiation. You are creating a vicious cycle. The more credit you give the victim, the more empowered he or she is. This is not specific to one group of people.

Kids today learn to eschew racism but the dialog going on in politics is making people more racist and more divisive, whether black, white or brown, man or woman. It is time for a change in approach.

loquacius posted:

The problem with what we have going on is that people need to talk to people who disagree with them more, so that they don't get caught in a polarization infinite loop and can maybe reach some kind of workable consensus.

noctambulous nebab posted:

I think it's no longer useful as a movement and it hasn't been since the 60s-70s. I think what we are really shooting for is egalitarianism, but what we have is ideological warfare between messy groups split upon gender, race and age. Feminism has been turned into a dogma by interest groups. I am not saying it is right, or that it is the most common view, but it has persuasion. This dogma is not searching for equality, it is searching for blame and subjugation.

These black & white fascist types are cut from the same cloth of the people we should be resisting, it is just the new trend of today that they are hiding behind.

The movements today are not the movements of yesterday, regardless of the name.


I think this is a very specific point of perspective. In many places of the world, racial equality is taken as a granted. Maybe there are foreigners and non-foreigners. The more that racial difference is used as a focal point for argument, the more the reality of race is distorted.

Is is used for political gain in every sphere as long as it is a hot issue. It takes no thought to accept everyone. It takes thought to differentiate people, and even more to resist that differentiation. You are creating a vicious cycle. The more credit you give the victim, the more empowered he or she is. This is not specific to one group of people.

Kids today learn to eschew racism but the dialog going on in politics is making people more racist and more divisive, whether black, white or brown, man or woman. It is time for a change in approach.

oldpainless posted:

Why are we talking about racial equality in the feminism thread?

Decebal posted:

*Hisssssss



who drew that comic ? It's really good

oldpainless posted:

Why are we talking about racial equality in the feminism thread?

Blurry Gray Thing posted:

Anti-feminism dorks are working against their own self interest. A world where they don't have to be "a REAL man" would be a much better one for dorks of all shapes and sizes. Eroding the patriarchy is a much better solution than pretending you're a noir detective or posing with a katana.

MY PALE GOTH SKIN posted:

This is the biggest problem as far as different isms not talking to each other and different schools or 'levels' not talking to each other. Spewing hateful rhetoric does not count as talking.

A dude I went to high school with and have on FB messaged me a few years ago because he saw me posting about feminism. He identifies (or identified then) as an MRA. Since we were already friends and both fairly chill, we just discussed issues and potential solutions. We agreed on more stuff than a lot of feminist people do with me, and a lot of MRA types do with him.

Obviously this isn't going to happen every time but seriously, we need to stop caring quite so much about labels

JiveHonky posted:

I'm serious arguing in a sarcastically posted thread and it feels great.

Anderron Shi posted:

oldpainless posted:

Why are we talking about racial equality in the feminism thread?

Profondo Rosso posted:

it makes me irrationally annoyed when I see people who could be attractive with the slightest bit of self awareness or effort look like total dorks

loquacius posted:

As I see it, huge dorks are likely to take offense to a philosophy that seems to be telling them "your childhood was easy compared to any given girl's, and your main problem is actually that you have too MUCH self-esteem"

Unfortunately they can't often express these objections clearly or convincingly because they are, alas, huge dorks, so you end up with entitled whining


My argument is that places where racial equality is taken as a given (eg eastern Asian countries or my earlier example of Cuba) actually have tons of racial issues, and their "race-blind" philosophy prevents them from confronting this head-on. At any rate, America doesn't have an analogous history to those kinds of places, and we absolutely need to discuss our particular racial issues if we want to solve them.

quote:

Alright well I agree with that, I just thought you meant 'women and men are equal so feminism is outdated.'

But yeah I agree. I meet a lot of white middle class women who call themselves feminists but then are racist or whatever - seems like they are only interested in themselves.

I'm still going to say 'yes' if anyone asks me if I'm a feminist, though.

OMG JC a Bomb! posted:

Anything to not talk about issues of class and wealth disparity, because that would force us to acknowledge that we're better off than 90% of the world.

Profondo Rosso posted:

it makes me irrationally annoyed when I see people who could be attractive with the slightest bit of self awareness or effort look like total dorks

noctambulous nebab posted:

It's not an issue of race though, race is totally irrelevant.

loquacius posted:

I think maybe we're talking about two different things, and I'm ok with dropping it there

noctambulous nebab posted:

So you are arguing that there is racial difference which justifies different national policy?

noctambulous nebab posted:

It's not an issue of race though, race is totally irrelevant. Some informal examples: uncle toms, wiggers, whitewashed whatever, westerners turned jihad, etc. It is not an issue of race, it is an issue of cultural upbringing.

The US has one of the most divisive political divisions of race of any culture. From this has sprung America's terrible ghettos, Donald Trump, the ghettos in the US, rap music, and etc.

Go to the EU, or the better parts of Africa, or other countries with international travel and you may see ethnic groups, but with none of the baggage that exists in the US. And this is where the quote for Mogan Freeman comes in. By focusing on the actual problem, rather than the scapegoat of race that people flock to, you prevent something very bad from happening. Active agendas of alienation and victim-blaming or victim-saving create ghettos and they create divisive movements within the state.

No politician actually wants to help disadvantaged groups, they want to increase their vote and the stature of the state as a whole. But I bring this up because the entire discussion is politically-motivated. Most of the people talking about race append their identity with 'liberal' or 'conservative'.

It is not that way. Africans are different from African Americans are different from African immigrants. American whites are different from European whites, European whites are different from each other. South American countries are different, Asian countries are very different and sensitive about it, etc.

By reducing the political argument to the populist cry of racial difference, the politicians and the ideologues are setting us back.

I have diverged entirely from the feminist issue. That is separate and deserves its own post.


I've got you and I would never hold that against you. But my view is that there is something going on, and it has become a monster that has no consciousness of its mouth.

There is a culture that has been looking for someone to blame since the '80s. Now we are seeing a white nationalist movement and candidates who are running on the wage gap as a platform. Has a serious division occurred here?

These are not the disagreements of reasonable people, this is a political wedge meant to envigor the political system and put certain candidates into play.

The US is a very advanced economy and state which should be looking to empower everyone in its boarders. That is why there is a Trump movement. I am not a Trump supporter, but it is unsurprising.

In light of all the lip service and global projection of power, the dialog coming from the US has become to look very corrupt. Every facet of the country has begun to look corrupt. Trump wants to bring the booty back home.

Surprisingly, this is more leftist than what the democrats are offering. So what we have right now is a quagmire of confusion that no single forums post could pacify.

JiveHonky posted:

noctambulous nebab posted:

Copy and post some 10 year old material you little bitch

noctambulous nebab posted:

Copy and post some 10 year old material you little bitch

noctambulous nebab posted:

So you are arguing that there is racial difference which justifies different national policy?

noctambulous nebab posted:

It's not an issue of race though, race is totally irrelevant. Some informal examples: uncle toms, wiggers, whitewashed whatever, westerners turned jihad, etc. It is not an issue of race, it is an issue of cultural upbringing.

The US has one of the most divisive political divisions of race of any culture. From this has sprung America's terrible ghettos, Donald Trump, the ghettos in the US, rap music, and etc.

Go to the EU, or the better parts of Africa, or other countries with international travel and you may see ethnic groups, but with none of the baggage that exists in the US. And this is where the quote for Mogan Freeman comes in. By focusing on the actual problem, rather than the scapegoat of race that people flock to, you prevent something very bad from happening. Active agendas of alienation and victim-blaming or victim-saving create ghettos and they create divisive movements within the state.

No politician actually wants to help disadvantaged groups, they want to increase their vote and the stature of the state as a whole. But I bring this up because the entire discussion is politically-motivated. Most of the people talking about race append their identity with 'liberal' or 'conservative'.

It is not that way. Africans are different from African Americans are different from African immigrants. American whites are different from European whites, European whites are different from each other. South American countries are different, Asian countries are very different and sensitive about it, etc.

By reducing the political argument to the populist cry of racial difference, the politicians and the ideologues are setting us back.

I have diverged entirely from the feminist issue. That is separate and deserves its own post.


I've got you and I would never hold that against you. But my view is that there is something going on, and it has become a monster that has no consciousness of its mouth.

There is a culture that has been looking for someone to blame since the '80s. Now we are seeing a white nationalist movement and candidates who are running on the wage gap as a platform. Has a serious division occurred here?

These are not the disagreements of reasonable people, this is a political wedge meant to envigor the political system and put certain candidates into play.

The US is a very advanced economy and state which should be looking to empower everyone in its boarders. That is why there is a Trump movement. I am not a Trump supporter, but it is unsurprising.

In light of all the lip service and global projection of power, the dialog coming from the US has become to look very corrupt. Every facet of the country has begun to look corrupt. Trump wants to bring the booty back home.

Surprisingly, this is more leftist than what the democrats are offering. So what we have right now is a quagmire of confusion that no single forums post could pacify.

loquacius posted:

I agree with the basic premise of this post (if not the part about not being bothered to care)

The word "feminism" refers to a broad umbrella group of philosophies and opinions (which is why you see stuff like, for example, prominent feminists disagreeing over whether it is more feminist to vote for Clinton or Sanders even though on its face it seems like that should be a pretty straightforward decision) but nobody has seemed to realize this yet (which is why you see a bunch of No True Scotsman stuff like the Kate Beaton comic posted earlier) and efforts at further qualifying it (beyond only-slightly-less-vague terms like "second wave" and "third wave") are generally met with hostility.

Personally I run my mouth a lot about what specific idiots who have been echo-chambered into complete absurdity say on the Internet, because I do that a lot in general, but the "mainstream" feminist view is generally stuff I agree with. I just wish they'd be more proactive and less defensive about policing people who adopt their rhetoric and labels for non-constructive purposes.

ArbitraryC posted:

"The definition of feminism is just about treating men and women equally how could you possibly disagree with that?"