The SFF and Mini-ITX thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The SFF and Mini-ITX thread

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

VulgarandStupid posted:

The Dan Case A4-SFX will start its crowdfunding in 5 days. I'm not 100% sure if I'm going to back it, but it is an awesome looking case and probably the smallest we're going to see that fits a full sized video card. The total volume is 7.25 liters.

http://www.dan-cases.com/

Aside from the price, this case would be perfect for me if it had the same front mic/headphone jacks and pair of USB ports that the NCASE M1 has. Now I need to decide between the smaller case vs the larger one with the ports up front...

(I currently have a Fractal Design Node 304 that I'd like to take up even less space on my desk.)

Edit: I ended up ordering the M1. Really considered backing the A4 but decided it wasn't worth waiting until December (or longer, who knows with Kickstarter projects commonly getting delayed), for a v1 product. At least the M1 has been in production for a while now and has gone through a few revisions. I also think the M1 looks slightly better, but that's personal preference.

NoDamage fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jun 12, 2016

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 04:04

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 16:03

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

I picked up a Corsair SF600 + SFX to ATX adapter for my Node 304, and I must say it is an incredibly quiet power supply. Or at least, it's much less noisy than the Seasonic M12II-650 I had in there previously. For some reason that power supply was the loudest component in my system, despite being made by Seasonic which is generally known for quiet power supplies.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 23:10

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Alright. I've deadlocked with myself on the Dancase A4.

Make or break my decision one way or another, please.

At ~$285 shipped to the US that's a drat expensive case, are you willing to pay that much and wait until December for it? The extreme size of the case also imposes quite a few component restrictions, for example some aftermarket video cards with larger PCBs won't fit, and there's maybe a handful of CPU coolers that are compatible. For any case > $200 you'd likely want to get multiple generations of use out of it, and personally I think I would get pretty annoyed with playing the "does this component fit in my case" game every time I went to upgrade something in the future. Not worth the hassle just to save 1.5 inches on width and height compared to the M1, unless you absolutely must have the smallest case ever.

Also, that super long PCIe riser cable. I know supposedly he chose the best one, but I would maybe be slightly concerned about issues cropping up with that, which we won't know about until many cases are in the hands of many people with different motherboard/video card combinations.

Finally, it's the first run of a Kickstarter project. If anything goes wrong (as Kickstarters tend to do), you might be waiting even longer than December.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2016 06:11

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Just in case anyone wants a reference point on shipping/delivery times, I ordered an NCASE M1 on June 12, it shipped on June 22, and arrived today.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2016 22:25

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

beepsandboops posted:

I'm in the process of readying my build to move over into an NCASE M1. My current CPU cooler, a Noctua NH-U12S, looks like it's too tall for the NCASE.

It looks like NCASE recommends a top-down cooler, and the OP suggests the Cryorig C7. What other coolers do people like?

A lot of people use the Noctua NH-U9S with dual fans. Alternatively if you want better cooling performance you can grab the larger NH-C14.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2016 22:48

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Coredump posted:

Problem is the gpu fan/radiator is pulling in fresh out from outside right above the psu. That's all good. But then that already heated air is what is getting pulled over to my nh-d9l cooler and cpu temps are not great right now.

Have you considered reversing the fan so it exhausts the hot air instead?

# ¿ Aug 13, 2016 23:20

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

El Scotch posted:

This is for an Asus P8Z77-i motherboard.

For the inevitable question of "why those stupid colours", I was a bit drunk and have no aesthetic taste when sober to begin with.

Also, for a motherboard like mine a shorter 24-pin cable would have been preferable.

Over at Ensourced they have these shorty 24-pin connectors, which I know think would actually work better for a setup like this, paired with a short extension cable.

I have the same motherboard/case/psu and just got the same cables (well, single sata power instead of dual, and different colors). I asked if they would do a 200mm 24-pin and they said no, 250mm was the minimum.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 21:58

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Update for anyone considering ShopBLT.com for an SF750. I ordered one on Sep 2nd and it was eventually delivered today after several emails pushing the delivery date back. So it took a while but it did get there.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2020 03:09

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Are there any other sandwich-style cases besides the Sliger SM560 and FormD T1 that will fit an Asus TUF 3090 or EVGA FTW3 3090?

I've currently got an NCASE M1 v5 but I don't think either card will fit in there. It might fit in the v6 but if I'm going to have to swap cases I want to go to a sandwich-style case.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 03:54

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Canna Happy posted:

Both fit in the m1, but you need 180 degree pcie adapters and might lose the front i/o (not sure on v5). How about the Meshlicious? Its a vertical sandwich.

Welp I tried to put the TUF in the M1 v5 and it almost fit but I couldn't get it seated into the PCIe slot. This was with the front i/o panel completely removed but I gave up before even trying to find out whether I'd be able to put it back on. Perhaps someone better at Tetris than I could have wedged it in there but I didn't want to risk damaging the card.

Thanks all for the suggestions on the Meshlicious, but after trying to cram this giant GPU into the M1 I think I'm just going to size up to the NR200 to have more room to work with and not have to mess with riser cables. (The original goal was to switch to a smaller sandwich-style case so it would take up the least room possible on my desk, but gently caress it, I'll just mount the NR200 under my desk and free up the desk top entirely.)

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 10:56

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

If I want to benchmark a bunch of CPU coolers against each other I should set a fixed frequency and voltage for consistency right? Otherwise temperature comparisons across coolers won't be meaningful because the CPU might boost to different speeds with different coolers?

# ¿ Jul 30, 2021 04:19

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Cygni posted:

Yup, and be aware that its real hard to actually get a lot of modern CPUs to actually listen to you. Even if you manually set clocks and voltages, disable turboing and P-states, and do everything else you can... sometimes they still dont want to listen and will be enforcing their own voltage tables and such. Its the reason GamersNexus went out and built a fancy CPU simulating heater for their cooler testing.

Fair enough. I'm definitely not going to go that far, just want to do what I can to reduce variability. Also I want to know how these coolers perform with my actual CPU and GPU inside my actual case.

quote:

For doing your own home gamer tests, the manual setting stuff is probably fine. But if you are really trying to get scientific with it for like a big corporate purchase (or measure tiny details between like fan brands or something), all of that stuff matters. Youll also probably want one of the graphite thermal pads to test with to rule out paste issues, and a torque driver to make sure the mount is the same each time.

Also you have to share your data cause i will want to nerd out over it!!

Yeah this is just to satisfy my own curiosity about whether a top-down vs tower cooler works better in the NR200 and what fan configuration is best. My original plan was to just compare the C14S against the Fuma 2, but somehow along the way I managed to impulse buy a half dozen other coolers to try as well. Will definitely share my results once I'm done.

Warmachine posted:

Edited a link to the GN dissertation on the topic of testing because it's generally worth the watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmTOJP4KOyk

I've seen this before and found it quite helpful. Here's my general plan:

- Set a fixed all-core frequency and voltage for the CPU. The CPU is a Ryzen 5950X and I've been on Intel for a decade and am not terribly familiar with all of Ryzen's BIOS settings so let me know if there are any specific options I should be aware of. The GPU is an Asus 3090 TUF OC and will be identical across all runs so I think I can leave everything default there.
- Do multiple runs for each cooler, re-mounting each time to detect paste application or mounting pressure differences. (I considered a thermal pad but kind of want to stick to the giant tube of NT-H2 I already have on hand and just do enough runs so I can tell if I hosed up the mounting.)
- Log each run in Hwinfo64. Graph the results looking for any inconsistencies in power and voltage and throw out any bad runs.
- Test with CPU load only (Cinebench R23 multi-core, 30 minute runs) and CPU+GPU load to see how hot GPU air affects CPU cooling. (Not sure what tool to use for GPU loads that is consistent between runs and can be easily looped? I've previously used Heaven for this but maybe I should change to something newer?)
- Test with stock fans to get an "out of the box" comparison, then do a noise-normalized comparison, then swap all fans to Noctuas to eliminate variability between fans (except for size).
- Temperature will be set according to the thermostat and humidity is generally consistent in my house but I'm probably not going to worry too much about this.
- I do have a torque wrench in my bike tool kit but it doesn't really seem necessary here since most of these coolers mounts are spring loaded and you just tighten the screws until they won't turn anymore?

Let me know if you guys think there is anything I should adjust, it will probably take quite a while to get through all these tests so I want to make sure I don't miss something and then have to re-do them all!

# ¿ Jul 31, 2021 00:05

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Paul MaudDib posted:

are there any options for a really SFF pc with an ODD bay? I'd kinda like to get my parents an upgrade for their current turboshitty AMD E350-based htpc they use at the family cabin, but they have a big media library stored on blurays.

the HDPlex H1 TODD is pretty cute but it doesn't need to be passive.

probably the easiest answer is to just get them a motherboard like J4125-ITX I guess, but...

The SilverStone RVZ02 if you're okay with console-style, but if you want really small you might want to just consider plugging in an external USB drive instead.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2021 03:10

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

What is the ambient temp in your room? I agree that 85C seems high for the 5600X but if your room is particularly warm that might explain it.

Scythe posted:

Should I:

Get some more case fans: I can fit a 120mm slim in the top rear and 2x120mm on the bottom but the Fuma 2 blocks anything else (no side fans since the bracket doesn't fit anymore). I assume I'd configure these as top exhaust and bottom intake, but open to other ideas. Also would love to hear which direction you're orienting your Fuma 2 for anyone else with this (common) combo and a full 4 case fans.

Swap out the CPU cooler or even case: This seems like overkill since the Fuma 2+NR200 is a well-reviewed combo, but if the above won't do anything I'm open to it.

Just live with it, since it's not thermal throttling and honestly since my exclusive "heavy" use case for this machine is 1440p gaming I'm essentially never loading up the CPU as much as I have been in testing, so this is pretty much just making a number go down for the sake of it.

The first and easiest suggestion is to put a second fan on top. Which board do you have? On some boards (Asus/Asrock) you can fit two full-sized 120mm fans whereas on others (Gigabyte/MSI) the CPU socket is positioned higher so only a slim will fit.

The second suggestion is to swap out the Scythe fans for fans with higher airflow. The Scythe fans are limited to 1200 RPM which is great for noise but they won't cool as well as higher RPM fans.

You could also do both and turn the Scythe fans into your top exhaust fans (since you get one slim and one full-size) and then get a pair of Noctuas or Arctics to attach to the cooler.

Swapping out the cooler seems like overkill. As you said tons of people use a Fuma 2 with the NR200 and it works just fine. It's not actually the best performer because of its limited RPM fans, but people tend to recommend it because it's good value compared to the more expensive Noctua coolers like the C14S or U12A, and it's very quiet.

For what it's worth in my testing I found that:

1) Rear intake was superior to exhaust for all tower-style coolers.
2) Top exhaust fans do help to remove warm air from the case and reduce CPU load temps.
3) You don't really need bottom fans.

Also if your GPU has a zero-RPM mode where the fans don't spin at idle then you should just ignore the GPU idle temp because it isn't really meaningful.

NoDamage fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 7, 2021

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 00:52

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Scythe posted:

I assume the Noctuas I should grab are a NF-A12x25 and an NF-A12x15, right?

How tall is your RAM? If it's below 40mm in height you should be able to fit a second A12x25. If it's taller then you'll need the extra clearance the 15mm gives you.

VorpalFish posted:

I would actually recommend against replacing the fans on the fuma 2 - the heatsink is optimized for very low noise operation with the fins spaced far apart and I think most testing has found it doesn't scale super well with more static pressure.

In my tests (with a 5950X) I found that swapping the stock fans with NF-A12x25's brings the max load temps down about 2-3C. Yes the stock fans are slightly quieter but it's not like the Noctuas are terribly loud.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 20:57

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

VorpalFish posted:

That's exactly what I mean by poor scaling - imo a 2-3 degree drop with bar none the most acoustically efficient static pressure fans money can buy with max speed like 600rpm higher isn't that impressive.

If you're planning to buy exhaust fans anyways then doing the swap doesn't cost you much extra because you can reuse the Scythe fans on top. But, yeah, if you already have your exhaust fans sorted then for the cost of the Fuma 2 plus the extra Noctuas you might as well have spent the money on a U12A in the first place.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2021 23:49

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Warmachine posted:

I'd actually like to hear an answer to this myself, tbh. What kind of clearance is there for top, bottom, and side mount radiator options in the NR200?

Top mounting is not supported in the NR200. It will be supported in the upcoming NR200 Max.

Bottom mounting a 240mm radiator is technically possible but it will limit your GPU clearance to ~1 slot depending on the thickness of the radiator+fans, unless you vertical mount the GPU which requires the riser cable that comes only with the NR200P. If you're using an AIO it is generally not recommended to bottom mount an AIO that has the pump in the CPU block, so you're also kind of limited to units that have the pump elsewhere (like the Be Quiet Pure Loop). Not an issue for custom loops though.

That leaves side mounting. 240mm is standard and works fine. I believe some people have squeezed in 280mm AIOs but as I understand it not all of them will fit, depending on the thickness of the radiator and positioning of the hoses.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2021 00:35

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 16:03

NoDamage: Dec 2, 2000

Sphyre posted:

https://ncases.com/blogs/news/end-of-m1-production

RIP to the GOAT

That's too bad. It really is a great case, although GPU compatibility was becoming increasingly problematic as GPUs have been getting larger and larger lately. I ended up having to switch to an NR200 for that reason, and honestly at a third of the price of the M1 it's hard to beat. I was planning on selling my M1 but if it's going to be impossible to replace in the future I might keep it around instead.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2021 05:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The SFF and Mini-ITX thread