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Does "metalgate" actually exist though? I remember some Gamergate supporters trying to astroturf it in late 2014 but it seems to have been met mostly with contempt and derision among metalheads.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:58
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Woolie Wool posted:Does "metalgate" actually exist though? I remember some Gamergate supporters trying to astroturf it in late 2014 but it seems to have been met mostly with contempt and derision among metalheads. Yup, you remember Metalgate. Turns out metal fans in general have about the same tolerance for the alt right as punk rockers. Sad Puppies is the better example, and those guys are in the process of getting nutstomped for the second year in a row. The alt right is sort of winning with video games (in that they've cost actually decent people jobs) and tabletop games, though the latter is a much smaller deal due to how far gone tabletop is anymore. The point is that the alt right has been trying to get its tentacles into all the aspects of nerd culture.
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Jun 10, 2016 23:21
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Powercrazy posted:Why should anyone, self-identified gamer or not, give a poo poo about the "community"? People generally don't like being associated with Bad People. Like look at what happened with "Bernbros".
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Jun 11, 2016 02:23
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rkajdi posted:Yup, you remember Metalgate. Turns out metal fans in general have about the same tolerance for the alt right as punk rockers. Sad Puppies is the better example, and those guys are in the process of getting nutstomped for the second year in a row. The alt right is sort of winning with video games (in that they've cost actually decent people jobs) and tabletop games, though the latter is a much smaller deal due to how far gone tabletop is anymore. The point is that the alt right has been trying to get its tentacles into all the aspects of nerd culture. What is metal gate also national socialism is pretty big in the black metal scene you might want to check it out.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:50
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Sword and Sceptre posted:What is metal gate also national socialism is pretty big in the black metal scene you might want to check it out. Is national socialism also big in online gaming communities, do tell.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:59
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Black metal is weird. When your music is trying to be shocking and about mass murder and satan raping kids etc., you can throw in Hitler to be even more shocking and evil. Is that actually supporting right wing ideologies? Do nazis want to be lumped in with torture fetishists and death cults? I dunno, maybe Sword and Sceptre does.
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Jun 11, 2016 10:24
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lynch_69 posted:I honestly think gamers who whine about the sad state of games journalism have this embedded in their brains as to what constitutes proper and honest games journalism: Well that's certainly preferable to "what if I could talk to the monsters in Doom, what would they tell me?" Yet my favorite YouTuber is Errant Signal, who makes analytical thoughtpieces like this. And I can't stand most of the written/blog-format stuff people cite as garbage gaming journalism. There's a couple factors going on here: one is that the best YouTubers are under no obligation to make a video unless they have something to say. The ones that are ultra popular and make huge amounts of cash on YouTube views are under more pressure and perhaps have less to do, but most of those people are running Minecraft channels. Bloggers have to write articles constantly. The other is by making that much content they're inevitably going to reveal too much of their approach to games, or their political philosophy, or something that breaks with the reader's credo having to make what is basically a daily newspaper. They're going to get attacked for articles like "An Ode to Pikachu's rear end" as though they had to write to meet some kind of content quota and it was a slow news day. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but the pressure to deliver more persists. It was easier to simply publish a magazine once a month, even the ones that were over 90 pages like mid-90s EGM were mostly ads. The need for space meant at least some stupid ideas got shelved. Now, they're published.
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Jun 11, 2016 12:20
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Craptacular! posted:Well that's certainly preferable to "what if I could talk to the monsters in Doom, what would they tell me?" Yet my favorite YouTuber is Errant Signal, who makes analytical thoughtpieces like this. And I can't stand most of the written/blog-format stuff people cite as garbage gaming journalism. Who gives a poo poo? Don't read those blogs and stick to YouTube videos. It's very easy to ignore things that bother you, at least in my experience.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:12
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lynch_69 posted:Who gives a poo poo? Don't read those blogs and stick to YouTube videos. It's very easy to ignore things that bother you, at least in my experience. I don't believe you.
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Jun 11, 2016 14:17
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Craptacular! posted:Well that's certainly preferable to "what if I could talk to the monsters in Doom, what would they tell me?" Yet my favorite YouTuber is Errant Signal, who makes analytical thoughtpieces like this. And I can't stand most of the written/blog-format stuff people cite as garbage gaming journalism. "What if I could talk to the monsters in doom" is probably going to result in a more entertaining article than "WOW STELLARIS BEST GAME EVER PARADOX YOU ARE THE BEST".
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Jun 11, 2016 14:25
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Panzeh posted:"What if I could talk to the monsters in doom" is probably going to result in a more entertaining article than "WOW STELLARIS BEST GAME EVER PARADOX YOU ARE THE BEST". Not if what you want from game journalism is reliable, down the middle of the plate buying advice, because these things are expensive products first and foremost at the end of the day. Game journalists are a lot of things, but I don't think "entertaining" is one of them.
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Jun 11, 2016 15:42
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bloodysabbath posted:Not if what you want from game journalism is reliable, down the middle of the plate buying advice, because these things are expensive products first and foremost at the end of the day. After the whole Kayne & Lynch saga it's pretty hard to argue game journalists are "reliable" in any sense.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:36
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bloodysabbath posted:Not if what you want from game journalism is reliable, down the middle of the plate buying advice, because these things are expensive products first and foremost at the end of the day. You can pretty much watch guys on youtube play games who can match pretty much any conceivable preference for that kind of thing.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:43
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Yeah the whole "I need impartial reliable fact based game review scores out of 100 so I know if I should buy this game" rings hollow in an age where you can see hours of unedited gameplay footage of every new AAA $60 game that will ever be released. I mean who really sits an reads reviews for the scores to decide if they should buy a game or not? I have a feeling it's a bunch of 30+ year old men like us who grew up with video game magazines and still have some nostalgic attachment to numbered review scores. It's an anachronism in this day and age with endless streaming footage of every new game that's coming out.
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Jun 11, 2016 16:52
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doverhog posted:Black metal is weird. When your music is trying to be shocking and about mass murder and satan raping kids etc., you can throw in Hitler to be even more shocking and evil. Is that actually supporting right wing ideologies? Do nazis want to be lumped in with torture fetishists and death cults? I dunno, maybe Sword and Sceptre does. Yes but black metal has fallen out of favor in the metal community and most metalheads have a policy of not acknowledging "NS" bands. They still operate but only really in Nazi circles. Nazi metal is an extension of RAC more than a part of metal.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:16
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doverhog posted:Black metal is weird. When your music is trying to be shocking and about mass murder and satan raping kids etc., you can throw in Hitler to be even more shocking and evil. Is that actually supporting right wing ideologies? Do nazis want to be lumped in with torture fetishists and death cults? I dunno, maybe Sword and Sceptre does. Nah dude, there's actual nazis in the black metal scene. Whether it's avowed racist and convicted murderer Varg Vikernes of Burzum fame, the white supremacists in Inquisition, or the nazi black metal scene in Oregon they totally exist. computer parts posted:After the whole Kayne & Lynch saga it's pretty hard to argue game journalists are "reliable" in any sense. What happened with Kayne and Lynch?
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Jun 11, 2016 18:09
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bloodysabbath posted:Not if what you want from game journalism is reliable, down the middle of the plate buying advice, because these things are expensive products first and foremost at the end of the day. This reliable, down the middle buying advice doesn't and never has existed. Beyond the fact that old gaming mags were complete industry rags made to pimp games, the idea that you can come up with buying advice without injecting your personal views is impossible. The review advice can't be objective on the basis that quality isn't objective. If you want buying advice, try to find a critic who's previous picks line up with your taste in the game's genre. Or if you really aren't sure, just skip the new release and put some cash into older used titles that you think you might like. If you pick up 4 $15 used titles and one is good, it the same as buying a single new game at full retail. If you get 2 that are good, you're way ahead. Wasn't that hard, and you didn't even need to listen to the mean old critics who gave you the bad bellyfeel about your hobby.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:18
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Great Metal Jesus posted:Nah dude, there's actual nazis in the black metal scene. Whether it's avowed racist and convicted murderer Varg Vikernes of Burzum fame, the white supremacists in Inquisition, or the nazi black metal scene in Oregon they totally exist. There are some nazis, sure. Is every black metal band with seemingly nazi lyrics actually a nazi band? Probably not.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:23
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Great Metal Jesus posted:What happened with Kayne and Lynch? A journalist got fired because he gave a less than stellar review of the Kane & Lynch 2. Basically, the production house played the "We give you ad buys, so drop this guy for not loving our game" and the website folded like a cheap suit. There's some irony that this was seen as a meh by the lunatic fringe of gamers made exactly zero issue with this, probably because it made sure that their precious AAA market would be free of criticism for a few more years.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:45
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lynch_69 posted:See, and just by shining a light on poo poo like this gets the author labelled as a liberal activist clickbait yellow journalist. It's like you're not even allowed to report on the objective reality of what's going in gaming communities without being called "the enemy". As seen in the comments to Jim's article itself. Jesus, man. That link is actually a really concise showing of the whole toxicity top to bottom.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:57
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://www.thejimquisition.com/watch-dogs-2-and-the-steam-users-who-hate-black-people/ "Dindu" sounds like a weird 19th Century slur.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:00
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rkajdi posted:A journalist got fired because he gave a less than stellar review of the Kane & Lynch 2. Basically, the production house played the "We give you ad buys, so drop this guy for not loving our game" and the website folded like a cheap suit. There's some irony that this was seen as a meh by the lunatic fringe of gamers made exactly zero issue with this, probably because it made sure that their precious AAA market would be free of criticism for a few more years. I know you have a weird hard on towards attacking and stereotyping gamers for some reason, but this is very false. Gamers were loving pissed when Jeff got fired and overwhelmingly supported his new independent venture. It eventually got big enough that the new parent company of the site that fired him made amends and bought his new site. It's definitely possible to review a video game without getting into your pet personal issues much in the same way it's very much possible and desirable to review an iPhone without getting into your thoughts on how Foxconn is evil, or to review a meal at a restaurant without going on a rant about how you think the tipping system/GMOs/the contractor who built the place is bullshit. I know this is a very strange concept for some, but it is very possible to compartmentalize one thing from another. People do it all the time as part of being a functioning human being, as the alternative is ending up a Glenn Beck/Josh McIntosh "It's all CONNECTED" lunatic. I also love how some seem to think there's no middle ground between "Nintendo Power" and "I don't care if this game is fun, the politics hurt my fee-fees, 2/10."
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Jun 11, 2016 20:02
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computer parts posted:"Dindu" sounds like a weird 19th Century slur. It's short for Dindu Nuffin, a slurring of "[I] didn't do nothing," a worthless plea that the feral criminal thugs spit out right before police rightfully shoot them on the spot. It is a weird 21st century slur.
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Jun 11, 2016 20:08
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bloodysabbath posted:It's definitely possible to review a video game without getting into your pet personal issues What's your example here?
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Jun 11, 2016 21:18
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Kill all gamers before they kill us.
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Jun 11, 2016 21:22
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bloodysabbath posted:I know you have a weird hard on towards attacking and stereotyping gamers for some reason, but this is very false. Gamers were loving pissed when Jeff got fired and overwhelmingly supported his new independent venture. It eventually got big enough that the new parent company of the site that fired him made amends and bought his new site. They bought the site because it was popular, not to "make amends" about firing him several years prior (and it was popular because it did something completely different to what Gamespot had been doing up until then). The point really is that in the not so distant past a guy was fired because he gave a video game a low review. That's not a sign of an industry that has "reliable, down the middle of the plate buying advice".
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Jun 11, 2016 21:26
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doverhog posted:There are some nazis, sure. Is every black metal band with seemingly nazi lyrics actually a nazi band? Probably not. Black metal has been a pretty reactionary genre since its inception. Members of bands that essentially founded the genre have gone on record as being against cultural outsiders, commercialism, modernity, and what have you. That vein has definitely persisted throughout the genre. I'm not saying that all black metal bands are nazis or reactionaries or whatever but they definitely have greater prominence than in other genres. And when your scene is known for having nazis and reactionaries hanging around I'm sorry but you don't get the benefit of the doubt when you start using nazi iconography just because it's associated with evil and you also sing songs about the devil. I feel like it's also inherently different from death metal's focus on, well, death in that the violence I'm concerned with in black metal is inherently political while death metal comes across as pure shock value. bloodysabbath posted:It's definitely possible to review a video game without getting into your pet personal issues much in the same way it's very much possible and desirable to review an iPhone without getting into your thoughts on how Foxconn is evil, or to review a meal at a restaurant without going on a rant about how you think the tipping system/GMOs/the contractor who built the place is bullshit. I think you're comparing apples and oranges here. I don't typically see reviewers tearing down games for the process that led to the game getting made. I see critique of social issues that are present in the plot of the actual game itself. I'm way more interested in a review that provides commentary on the plot of Modern Warfare 3, Grand Theft Auto V, or The Division than one that sticks purely to the shooting mechanics and the graphics. There are a lot of good shooters out there and my money is limited. I'd rather play something that's slightly mechanically flawed but has an interesting story like Spec Ops: The Line than another big swinging dick American military masturbation fest. That said I primarily check out reviews on bigger name sites. I have no idea if some blog somewhere is slamming games because of the studio's skirting labor laws.
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Jun 11, 2016 22:48
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bloodysabbath posted:I know you have a weird hard on towards attacking and stereotyping gamers for some reason, but this is very false. Gamers were loving pissed when Jeff got fired and overwhelmingly supported his new independent venture. It eventually got big enough that the new parent company of the site that fired him made amends and bought his new site. It seems like that kind of stuff still exists, it has in fact improved significantly since now you can literally just watch someone you like play a game on youtube to see if you like it which is almost always going to be better than someone writing a review somewhere. It kinda makes sense for written criticism to move toward analytical/etc. because it's significantly harder to do that in video form.
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Jun 12, 2016 00:30
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Great Metal Jesus posted:What happened with Kayne and Lynch? 
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Jun 12, 2016 08:35
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I don't know what's worse, people who have gaming as a hobby and obsess over games, or people who obsess over defining "gamers" and trying to pass judgment on people based on what media they consume. If you have to think this hard to "understand" why people have such a hobby, you probably just have to play some videogames and figure it out for yourself. If you still can't, carry on with your life and interests.
wiregrind fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 13:48
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true but then he made one of the best gaming sites ever.
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Jun 12, 2016 15:44
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doverhog posted:There are some nazis, sure. Is every black metal band with seemingly nazi lyrics actually a nazi band? Probably not. Maybe no but there are quite a few nazis. Actually there are so many nazis that it has cast a pretty long shadow over the entirery of black metal. So if you go out and do nazi stuff in black metal people are quite reasonably thinking you are a nazi because nearly everyone else who has been doing nazi stuff has also been saying stuff like "Well it's not like Hitler was right... except that entire total race war, he got that poo poo totally down". Black metal is so rife with nazis that stuff like NSBM etc. are not just some arcane in-scene thing, they're very visible to even complete outsiders.
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Jun 13, 2016 14:28
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How the gently caress can you even cal yourself a 'gamer' like it's still a loving thing in 2016? Everyone games. My drat parents play cell phone games for crying out loud. It's so ubiquitous in culture that identifying specifically as a gamer is about as silly as identifying as a 'movie watcher'. And to be sure, as a subscriber of Nintendo Power and EGM in the 90s, numbered review scores are kind of silly. Kind of obsolete with things like meta critic and steam reactions- a game having a 90% favourable rating among all people who have ever watched it means more than some jackass editor with specific tastes giving a game 9/10.
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Jun 13, 2016 15:13
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I've stopped following current events w/r/t black metal years ago, so if it's become genuinely political in the way you are describing, the defense doesn't really work anymore.
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Jun 13, 2016 19:27
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rkajdi posted:You don't need to, but then you don't get to complain when people criticize you for standing next to them. The people you associate with reflect on you. I don't "associate" with the gamer "community" at all though. I play games that I'm certain other people play, and some of those people are racist or sexist. Also what the hell is your rant about pedo dating sims? And what does that have to do with anything? That some strange projection man.
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Jun 13, 2016 19:50
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JVNO posted:How the gently caress can you even cal yourself a 'gamer' like it's still a loving thing in 2016? Everyone games. My drat parents play cell phone games for crying out loud. It's so ubiquitous in culture that identifying specifically as a gamer is about as silly as identifying as a 'movie watcher'. Surely we can (indeed, we do) differentiate between "person who sometimes plays games/watches movies" and "person for which playing games/watching movies represents a major hobby or use of their time". If the arguement you're making here is "I don't think the word gamer is used in a manner to describe the latter" then other people's comments here indicate that is not true. I agree that we ought to better differentiate between the two, but right now a weird non-battle seems to be occurring over whether the word gamer ought to apply to anyone who plays or those that play a lot.
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Jun 14, 2016 07:34
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sex idiot posted:What does "gamer" mean to you, is it just someone who plays video games? or is there more to it than that? A gamer is someone who indulges in video games as a hobby. Video games are done habitually. Nothing really disqualifies you from the label beyond that if you fit those qualifications. The gaming community is mainly comprised of "hardcore" gamers that scoff at mobile gamers who don't buy consoles and high-end gaming PCs, but I really don't understand the stigmatization of the casual gamer.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:08
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Coolwhoami posted:Surely we can (indeed, we do) differentiate between "person who sometimes plays games/watches movies" and "person for which playing games/watching movies represents a major hobby or use of their time". If the arguement you're making here is "I don't think the word gamer is used in a manner to describe the latter" then other people's comments here indicate that is not true. I agree that we ought to better differentiate between the two, but right now a weird non-battle seems to be occurring over whether the word gamer ought to apply to anyone who plays or those that play a lot. The gamer label carries connotations of homophobia, sexism, racism, anti-intellectualism, and a whole host of other problems due to extremely loud assholes creating an association between calling oneself a gamer and in their next tweet saying "shut up Sarkeesian you stupid oval office." So while I play a lot of video games, I can't comfortably call myself a "gamer" because it implies I'm sending death threats to whatever loving rear end in a top hat gave Bravely Second a 6/10 and making takedowns of tropes vs. women on youtube.
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Jun 14, 2016 15:25
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It really seems like "gamer" is a label looking for a definition. I don't know why to be honest, but that's what it seems like to me. It also seems the "problem" with games is similarly made up. Because there are hundreds of thousands of games played by millions of people, and not everyone likes every game nor should they be expected to. So when people say "X is bad" because of "Y" it seems like they are doing a substitution. They take a thing they don't like, specific types of video games, find assholes on the internet that like the thing, then point them out and imply everyone that likes video games is like that. Which is an intellectually bankrupt position and one that should be dismissed out of hand regardless of the speaker.
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Jun 14, 2016 16:00
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The gamer label carries connotations of homophobia, sexism, racism, anti-intellectualism, and a whole host of other problems due to extremely loud assholes creating an association between calling oneself a gamer and in their next tweet saying "shut up Sarkeesian you stupid oval office." Did you call yourself a gamer before the recent splits and controversies? I'm of a similar mind as you, but ten years ago I'd have comfortably called myself a gamer, and even though I've stopped like you have, I've never felt comfortable surrendering that term to those people, and I'm sure as poo poo not going to do something like start calling myself a ludophile or whatever term people might come up with in future. It bothers me that just as gaming has started to move into the mainstream, the term we used to us to describe ourselves as hobbyists has been wrenched backward into a niche of social malcontents. When I was younger I looked forward to the day when describing myself as a "gamer" would have connotations no different than describing myself as a "film buff". But that day looks as distant as ever, even as games have become mainstream.
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