[!UFO!] explain the Phoenix Lights: you can't

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > [!UFO!] explain the Phoenix Lights: you can't

criscodisco: Feb 18, 2004; do it

Celluloid Sam posted:

whats the dark Knight my coworker is a conspiracy nut and said to look up the dark Knight apparently it's some thing that's orbiting the earth

Probably that weird natural satellite that they've known about since the 40s.

Edit:
This thing

It's called Black Knight. I think they claim that it broadcasts real signals and is an alien monitor.

criscodisco fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jun 10, 2016

# ? Jun 10, 2016 03:05

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:47

Tony Homo: Oct 30, 2014; by zen death robot

Seen a program where it was some army flares and the way they disappear corresponds with the outline of the mountains.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 03:35

Hrist: Feb 21, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Everyone is so worried about what comes to us. Why doesn't anyone care about the people that go on the rad trips to them?

# ? Jun 10, 2016 03:39

Stick Figure Mafia: Dec 11, 2004

AugmentedVision posted:

man i really need to start watching the new x files

# ? Jun 10, 2016 03:42

Captain Splashback: Jan 1, 2007; BY APPOINTMENT TO HER MAJESTY
QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SPLASHBACK HOLDINGS LTD
PUCKINS AND PRINTERS PURVEYORS

I wonder how Gillian Anderson acts in bed?

# ? Jun 10, 2016 03:55

Chinatown: Sep 11, 2001; by Fluffdaddy; Fun Shoe

Serviette posted:

I wonder how Gillian Anderson acts in bed?

# ? Jun 10, 2016 04:06

Captain Splashback: Jan 1, 2007; BY APPOINTMENT TO HER MAJESTY
QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SPLASHBACK HOLDINGS LTD
PUCKINS AND PRINTERS PURVEYORS

Me too

# ? Jun 10, 2016 04:13

Leon Einstein: Feb 6, 2012; I must win every thread in GBS. I don't care how much banal semantic quibbling and shitty posts it takes.

criscodisco posted:

Probably that weird natural satellite that they've known about since the 40s.

Edit:
This thing

It's called Black Knight. I think they claim that it broadcasts real signals and is an alien monitor.

It's a thermal blanket, but for some reason they think it looks like a satellite. It really doesn't.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 04:15

SIDS Vicious: Jan 1, 1970

lmao so you're telling me it's a blanket designed for subzero temperatures that fell out of something and is now or bitting the earth and people think it's an alien satellite hahahaha gently caress people are dumb as poo poo

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:30

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

Tony Homo posted:

Seen a program where it was some army flares and the way they disappear corresponds with the outline of the mountains.

They were spotted moving across a large area of Nevada for over an hour, the flare explanation is a really bad one. Like anything that hinges on the military running unannounced air drills over major city centers seems really lovely 2 me.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:38

The Grey: Mar 2, 2004

Tony Homo posted:

Seen a program where it was some army flares and the way they disappear corresponds with the outline of the mountains.

Good point. The military always tells the truth about UFOs.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:39

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

Leon Einstein posted:

It's a thermal blanket, but for some reason they think it looks like a satellite. It really doesn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_satellite

no one thinks it's a thermal blanket. I think it's man made debris but if it was a thin piece of aluminum we'd have figured that out right loving quick.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:43

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

um Huston.. uhh.. it appears we accidentally opened up one of the shuttle doors and one of the god damned blankets slipped out, again, sorry d00ds

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:46

frogge: Apr 7, 2006

Looks like swamp gas to me.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:47

The Grey: Mar 2, 2004

frogge posted:

Looks like swamp gas to me.

Phoenix doesn't have swamps though.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:52

its all nice on rice: Nov 12, 2006; Sweet, Salty Goodness.; Buglord

Digital Fingers posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_satellite

no one thinks it's a thermal blanket. I think it's man made debris but if it was a thin piece of aluminum we'd have figured that out right loving quick.

Uhh

quote:

The Black Knight satellite is claimed by some conspiracy theorists[2] to be an object approximately 13,000 years old of extraterrestrial origin orbiting Earth in near-polar orbit. Critics and mainstream academics have called it a conspiracy theory and myth that combines several unrelated stories.[3][4] A 1998 NASA photo believed by some to show the Black Knight satellite is thought by experts to be of a thermal blanket lost during an EVA mission

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:54

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

The Grey posted:

Phoenix doesn't have swamps though.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:54

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

Pope Mobile posted:

Uhh

whoops, didn't remember seeing that last time i read the thing. Probably should have gave it a once over before posting it. Apologies and forgiveness please.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:57

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

i'm okay with the thermal blanket explanation then

# ? Jun 10, 2016 06:59

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Chinatown posted:

theyre mexicans coming across the border to kill old white people, OP

Thank god

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:08

Sweaty IT Nerd: Jul 13, 2007

Robo Reagan posted:

Thank god

Take that Arpaio voter base

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:11

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Digital Fingers posted:

They were spotted moving across a large area of Nevada for over an hour, the flare explanation is a really bad one. Like anything that hinges on the military running unannounced air drills over major city centers seems really lovely 2 me.

yeah why doesnt the highly secretive air force base release a press statement whenever they take the new b-5's for test flights

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:11

Iron Prince: Aug 28, 2005; Buglord

The Grey posted:

Phoenix doesn't have swamps though.

JOKE EXPLAINER OVER HERE!!!!

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:12

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

Robo Reagan posted:

yeah why doesnt the highly secretive air force base release a press statement whenever they take the new b-5's for test flights

Why does the highly secretive air force take test flights over a city packed with people, why don't they inform the FAA that they'll be operating over civilian airspace. Why are flares covering hundreds of miles for over an hour without burning up.

i misremembered a wikipage i read a while ago man, that doesn't mean you have free range to be a dumbshit now.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:21

That Robot: Sep 16, 2004; ask me anything about robots; Buglord

The Protagonist posted:

all ufos of legitimately extraterrestrial origin (~<0.01%) are ancient autonomous robotic probes sending signals back to lifeless tombs.

thats p fukken trippy :okpos:

the immensity of it all, such that there are unimaginably large filaments composed of galaxies out there is almost frightening imo

That Robot fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jun 10, 2016

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:24

Nonviolent J: Jul 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless; Soiled Meat

I agree with digital fingers

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:36

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Digital Fingers posted:

Why does the highly secretive air force take test flights over a city packed with people, why don't they inform the FAA that they'll be operating over civilian airspace. Why are flares covering hundreds of miles for over an hour without burning up.

i misremembered a wikipage i read a while ago man, that doesn't mean you have free range to be a dumbshit now.

If I was part of a highly secretive air force with a bunch of myths about having alien ships that we fly around in I'd make sure it was 100% required to take new pilots out on a flight to some city, pop the lights, then fly off while all the plebes freak out about aliens and monsters

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:44

Fabulousity: Dec 29, 2008; Number One I order you to take a number two.

Why would aliens visit Phoenix anyways? It's just all old people.

If this one was really floating around O'Hare for 5 minutes I have a tough time believing that even in 2006 no one even got a primitive lovely camera phone picture of it. And apparently this UFO decided to hang around over a cluster of gates at the airport where none of the baggage handlers were stealing cameras so welp?

# ? Jun 10, 2016 07:51

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

well i know for a fact that me and 3 people saw something incredible and unless we humans can make bright orbs of light do loops in the sky and zoom off faster than any plane i've seen.... well then something is going down yo

i really don't know what to believe at all though, but at least i know i saw something that as far as the official word goes does not and can not exist.... so ermmm yea i guess im nuts and all science goons can scoff at me, not that it's not healthy to be skeptical.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 08:07

Nonviolent J: Jul 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless; Soiled Meat

Someone post some alien pussy

# ? Jun 10, 2016 08:16

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Nation posted:

well i know for a fact that me and 3 people saw something incredible and unless we humans can make bright orbs of light do loops in the sky and zoom off faster than any plane i've seen.... well then something is going down yo

i really don't know what to believe at all though, but at least i know i saw something that as far as the official word goes does not and can not exist.... so ermmm yea i guess im nuts and all science goons can scoff at me, not that it's not healthy to be skeptical.

its definitely aliens they travel for thousands of years across space to show up in our atmosphere for 3 minutes before doing loops and leaving forever

all of the spy satellites of every nation pick these up obviously, but the governments won't tell us about the aliens because of the illuminati conspiracy

# ? Jun 10, 2016 08:47

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

exactly my point - i know for a fact i saw something but beside that five minutes and the people with me, everything....science, government, something awful posters all say what i saw is bullshit.

So i guess the better question is what is proof, the same friends could all swear one of us did a crime and have them locked away on our word alone but when it comes to this our word means gently caress all.

Lets be real though, i know i saw something but i didn't see an illuminati global conspiracy flying around in the sky, hence i said i saw a glowing orb of light and not whatever you think i'm talking about.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 08:57

Robo Reagan: Feb 12, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

im not saying what you saw is bullshit, i'm saying it wasnt aliens

(ps im an astrophysicist you people should be worrying way more about meteoroids/asteroids than you should be aliens because we have a lot of hilariously close near misses lmao)

# ? Jun 10, 2016 08:59

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

when did i say it was

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:00

a whole buncha crows: May 8, 2003; WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHO TO HATE, WE HATE OURSELVES.-SA USER NATION (AKA ME!)

this whole topic pisses me off more than anything

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:06

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

The Pheonx lights are skydivers jumping with flares attatched to them OP this is super common and well documented hope that helps with your mental illness.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:07

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

quote:

Tonight we're going to grab our shotguns, jump into our rambling pickup truck, and chase a massive triangular UFO as it courses silently across the American southwest, for we are (once again) on the trail of the infamous Phoenix Lights.

Perhaps it's the recent 10-year anniversary of the event, or perhaps it's the former Arizona governor's recent confession that he believes they were actually an alien spacecraft, but the Phoenix Lights have been back in the news again. It was the night of March 13, 1997 when a slanting line of bright lights appeared one-by-one in the sky beyond Phoenix, Arizona. Hundreds of photographs and videos were taken by observers throughout the region, making it among the most documented UFO sightings ever. The incident came as no surprise to anyone at nearby Luke Air Force Base (named for World War I ace Lt. Frank Luke), which operates the Barry M. Goldwater Range where a flight of four A-10 ground attack aircraft were jettisoning leftover illumination flares. The flares are typically dropped at lower altitudes, where they are not visible from Phoenix, due to the intervening Sierra Estrella mountain range.

The Phoenix Lights episode is a running joke in the Air Force and especially at the 104th Fighter Squadron of the Maryland Air National Guard, whose aircraft were involved. They don't have desert bombing ranges in Maryland, so the pilots go to places like Arizona for some of their training. The Air National Guard is the Air Force's reserve unit, similar to the Army Reserve.

But the rest of us regular people didn't know anything about this. We all just looked up into the sky, and saw something unlike anything we'd ever seen before. I remember watching it on the news with my wife. I remember my sense of amazement at witnessing something truly unexplainable: Could this actually be alien spacecraft?

Over the next couple of weeks, corroborating reports flooded in, of triangle-shaped craft from as far away as Henderson, Nevada cruising over the southwest, to Prescott, over Phoenix, and off toward Tucson. UFO's are reported nearly every day in most areas by someone, so it's to be expected that the normal background noise of typical reports would be given special attention during a large-scale episode like the Phoenix Lights. And, obviously, such a furor offers an easy opportunity for any clown to go on the news to say that a triangle-shaped craft passed over his house on its way to Phoenix. What would have been truly unusual and shocking is if there had been no other reports from nearby areas. Too bad none of these people owned cameras.

Lots of people in the Phoenix area did own cameras, and they all filmed exactly the same thing. Hundreds of photographs, hours of video, and all of it showing a line of lights in the sky above the city lights of Phoenix, looking toward the Sierra Estrella mountains and the Goldwater Range. Not a single photograph or frame of video showed anything else. This was the most documented UFO sighting in American history, and every last photograph showed exactly the same thing. Plenty of verbal reports told very different stories over the weeks following the incident, but every single photograph showed a simple line of lights beyond the Sierra Estrella.

As has been thoroughly documented, including by a Fox television special, the moment that each light disappeared on the evidential videotapes corresponded exactly with the horizon line of the Sierra Estrella mountains, proving that the lights were behind the mountains, and not over Phoenix.

Here's a story that's typical of the many found on the Internet, from Jan Markham of Gilbert Arizona:

My husband and I were out flying that night in the vicinity of the Stanfield VOR. We clearly saw the flares to our west, over the Goldwater range - a familiar sight to my husband. However, there was a second set of lights that night - the V-shaped formation that was initially shown on film by the local TV networks. That formation, whatever it was, flew directly over us at a much higher altitude than the flares. At the time, we thought it was some sort of military flight, but that never appears to have been acknowledged. I am sure someone knows the truth about those lights, but, please, don't insult our intelligence by telling us they were flares.

Let's spend a moment examining the flare said to be used in the incident. The A-10 drops two different kinds of flare: a countermeasure flare, used to confuse heat-seeking missiles; and an illumination flare, used to light up the ground at night either for the benefit of troops on the ground or to light up a target so it can be visually targeted for weapons release. The illumination flare is the one we're talking about. It's called the LUU-2 air-deployed high intensity illumination flare. It's made by defense contractor ATK Thiokol. The variant in use at the time of the Phoenix Lights incident was the LUU-2B/B. It weights 30 pounds and its canister is three feet long and 5 inches in diameter. Once it ejects its parachute and ignites, it puts out 1.8 million candela for 4 minutes, or 1.6 million candela for 5 minutes. It falls in its parachute at 8.3 feet per second. At 1000 feet above the ground, it lights up an area half a kilometer wide at 5 lux. The LUU-2's pyrotechnic candle burns magnesium, which produces an intense white light. Because it burns so hot, it also ends up burning the aluminum canister, which adds an orange hue to the light for most of the burn. About halfway through the burn, enough of the canister has been burned away that it actually lightens the load and it falls more and more slowly. Once it's almost completely out, an explosive bolt disconnects the parachute and the flare drops, burning out completely sometime hopefully before landing on someone's wood shingle roof.

The Barry M. Goldwater Range is a big place � over 4,000 square miles � and the Phoenix metropolitan area is even larger, about 14,000 square miles. The distance between the two is usually cited at 60 to 80 miles, but as we can see, that's going to depend on a lot. We do know a little about where the A-10's were flying inside the Goldwater Range. The guy who was in the lead A-10, Lt. Col. Ed Jones, says they were near Gila Bend when they ejected the leftover flares, and Gila Bend is just about exactly 50 miles from downtown Phoenix. Mesa and Scottsdale are farther away, so let's take a super rough stab at it, be conservative, and say that the average observer of the Phoenix Lights was 70 miles away from the A-10's. The brightness of the LUU-2 seen from 70 miles away is roughly equal to a star with an apparent magnitude of somewhere between -3.2 and -4.3, which is significantly brighter than any stars visible in the sky, but not as bright as the full moon. The magnitude scale was developed by the astronomer Hipparchus, where +1 represents the brightest star in the sky, and +6 represents the faintest. -3.2 is quite a bit brighter than the brightest star. The noonday sun has an apparent magnitude of -26.7. Thanks to the guys on the Bad Astronomy and JREF forums who helped me with these calculations.

Yet another wrench in the machinery is that all of the above is dramatically affected by atmospheric conditions. It wouldn't take much haze for absorption and scatter to obscure flares completely at that distance, and in the clear conditions predominant over Phoenix, lights are often distorted by an inversion layer, an effect that you can sometimes see when the landing lights of aircraft approaching an airport appear much bigger than they actually are. So we have a computation based on multiple unknown variables, any of which could wildly throw off our results. The one thing we can say with certainty is that the approximate brightness of the Phoenix Lights as seen in the photographs and videos does fall well within the wide range of brightness that's possible from LUU-2B/B flares at 70 miles.

Here's one final fly in the ointment. The photographic evidence itself is not necessarily a valid representation of how the lights would have looked to the naked eye: Still and video cameras are of varying quality and need specific settings to capture lights in the night sky. We have little or no information about the settings used in most of the available photographic and video evidence. Much has been made of a ham-handed spectral analysis of Phoenix Lights photographs and videos by prominent UFO advocate Jim Dilletoso, whose conclusions have been widely discredited since you can't even remotely do a spectral analysis of lights in a photograph and expect there to be any useful similarity to the spectrum of the actual light source, any more than you could expect a photograph of an orange to smell like an orange. Dilletoso found that, based on the colors in photographs, the Phoenix Lights could not have been from any known earthly source. Note that among Dilletoso's other claims to fame is having spent six weeks at an underground alien base in Dulce, New Mexico. Judge his credibility for yourself.

The UFO crowd and conspiracy theorists point out other problems with the flare explanation, most notably that a public relations officer at Luke Air Force Base contacted that night didn't happen to know that flares had been dropped, and so had no explanation for the lights. For this to be a real problem, you have to assume that everyone involved in training exercises immediately communicates every tactical detail of what they do, and their own personal estimation of its possible consequences, to the base PR officer. The officer also said that the Air Force had no operations over Phoenix that night, which was of course completely true. The A-10's were a great distance away and well inside their Military Operating Area airspace. This statement has been taken by the conspiracy theorists as evidence of a conspiracy, so discussing it is just beating a dead horse. The only other dissenting evidence put forward is the mass of eyewitness accounts following the triangle shaped craft on its journey across the southwest. Unfortunately all such stories are in direct contradiction with all photographic evidence. These witnesses had as much opportunity to document their sightings as did the people in Phoenix. The fact that they did not must be met, unfortunately, with a shrug. There are simply too many other reasons they might be saying what they're saying, and their reports are precisely contradicted by a mountain of hard evidence.

The Phoenix Lights were flares. Deal with it.

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:09

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

criscodisco posted:

Probably that weird natural satellite that they've known about since the 40s.

Edit:
This thing

It's called Black Knight. I think they claim that it broadcasts real signals and is an alien monitor.

You may want to read through this helpful pdf to clear up your confusion http://www.orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/newsletter/pdfs/ODQNv4i1.pdf

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:15

flubber nuts: Oct 5, 2005

wow just wow if you think it impossible for earth to be visited by extra terrestrials. did jesus tell you aliens dont exist or aomething idgi

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:22

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:47

a star war betamax: Sep 17, 2011; by Lowtax; Gary’s Answer

We are utterly alone in this universe

# ? Jun 10, 2016 09:44

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