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Cathode Raymond posted:I dunno about everyone else but I had sort of assumed that a clean shot from a 76 would have a better-than-average chance to pen a Panther from the front. In fact I based many of my recommendations on that assumption. Nope, not at all! But, hey, you're not alone: Dwight David 'Ike' Eisenhower posted:You mean our 76 won't knock the Panthers out? Why, I thought it was going to be the wonder gun of the war. Why is it that I'm the last to hear about this stuff? Ordnance told me this 76 would take care of anything the Germans had. Now I found out you can't knock out a drat thing with it.
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Aug 14, 2016 05:28
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The Panther is strong against the 76 regardless, but if you look at the video you can see that its hull is pretty much perfectly angled against the Sherman. If it were dead-on against us we'd have a better chance of doing something, but as it is there was basically never any chance of actually damaging it from that angle, even with HVAP (Which we probably wasted this turn  )Also sorry for not posting for a while, I've been trying to keep up with the thread but I just haven't had any time to do any kind of detailed orders (Which fortunately haven't been really necessary for my platoon, but it's still not great).
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Aug 14, 2016 06:46
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HVAP will kill it pretty reliably actually.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:52
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dtkozl posted:HVAP will kill it pretty reliably actually. But our Easy 8 doesn't have HVAP, so that point is moot.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:53
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Call in a supply drop.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:54
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In the first demo mission I had a couple of 76s dispatch a King tiger over 1000 meters away remarkably quickly with three penetrating hits, but I think in this case the massive sloped armour plate is stopping everything.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:56
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Davin Valkri posted:But our Easy 8 doesn't have HVAP, so that point is moot. You have an apcr round that I highlighted in the vid. It has a very good chance of killing the panther.
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Aug 14, 2016 06:59
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dtkozl posted:You have an apcr round that I highlighted in the vid. It has a very good chance of killing the panther. Does it have any accuracy penalties like the 57mm AT guns' special shells do? Also, I should mention Cathode Raymond posted:I learned a lot during the course of this game. I guess other people learning from my screw-ups is the best result I could hope for. I'll definitely have to write a post mortem of some kind in the general thread after the next turn is resolved and we call the game. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 07:40
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I believe they humbugged us on this one  .
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Aug 14, 2016 14:00
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dtkozl posted:You have an apcr round that I highlighted in the vid. It has a very good chance of killing the panther. Is there a way to tell the crew to use it?
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Aug 14, 2016 15:58
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Davin Valkri posted:Does it have any accuracy penalties like the 57mm AT guns' special shells do? Not that I've seen. At the ranges you see on this map pretty much anything outside of really low energy big bore guns (wespe) are going to hit on the first shot. This is knife fighting range for armor. I didn't know the 57mm had accuracy penalties. Where did you see that? As for using the round, you can't "tell" the crew to use rounds, that is up to the AI. I'm a bit mystified why they didn't do it last turn. All that's left is to hope in one hand.
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Aug 14, 2016 17:11
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dtkozl posted:I didn't know the 57mm had accuracy penalties. Where did you see that? Isigny tests showed the sabot rounds for the 57mm and 17pdr were very difficult to actually hit with reliably. e: though at these ranges, it shouldn't come up too much The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Aug 14, 2016 |
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Aug 14, 2016 17:14
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dtkozl posted:As for using the round, you can't "tell" the crew to use rounds, that is up to the AI. I'm a bit mystified why they didn't do it last turn. It's already been established that Gamer's driver is drunk, his loader is probably drunk too.
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Aug 14, 2016 17:30
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The Merry Marauder posted:Isigny tests showed the sabot rounds for the 57mm and 17pdr were very difficult to actually hit with reliably. Yeah I know the 17 pdr apcr had real problems because the crap around the penetrator didn't separate uniformly but I hadn't heard about the 57mm. I dunno if that is modeled in this game. I think the british made the apcr ammo for the Isigny tests. The apcr available to the 76mm tanks in this should be american made iirc.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:13
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76mm HVAP at Isigny was US Ordnance-built and didn't display the inaccuracy, as I recall. I guess the Sherman crew should actually try using the drat stuff, eh? Too awesome to use, it's like they're in a video game or something!
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Aug 14, 2016 18:17
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The combined industrial capacity of the biggest economy on earth has managed to provide that tank crew with exactly one APCR round and they are saving it in case they run into a Tiger II or something. This is some Catch-22 poo poo right here!
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Aug 14, 2016 18:34
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The loader popped the casing out of the rack and stuffed in the top is a share certificate for the syndicate. "Milooooooo!"
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Aug 14, 2016 18:39
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I come back from camping hoping for glory and I see frustration instead  But yes we should try to kill the Panther - if we somehow take it down we still have a shot.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:33
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pthighs posted:I come back from camping hoping for glory and I see frustration instead Honestly, I'm probably going to surrender even if we get the Panther--most of the battalion is discouraged, and the Easy Eight only has one APCR/HVAP shot. Which it doesn't want to use for some reason. I hope this isn't a bug.
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Aug 15, 2016 00:35
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And of course our sole bazooka decides to shoot at infantry instead of a vehicle. At least they killed the guy. Guess that's it for 1st platoon.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:32
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Decoy Badger posted:And of course our sole bazooka decides to shoot at infantry instead of a vehicle. At least they killed the guy. Guess that's it for 1st platoon. I think they just got unlucky/shocked. They fired at least twice--one hit the infantryman, and one hit...a tree? Point is it dropped short. I'm not sure if they've got any shots left or if they're in any condition to fire it--the bazooka one is off to the left relative to the ones breaking, right?
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Aug 15, 2016 01:40
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Davin Valkri posted:Honestly, I'm probably going to surrender even if we get the Panther--most of the battalion is discouraged, and the Easy Eight only has one APCR/HVAP shot. Which it doesn't want to use for some reason. I hope this isn't a bug. What is this, the American Army or the French army  Seriously though, so long as our Easy 8 is alive, we have a shot. It's important to note that we still possess some pretty significant forces on the field, and we hold the objective area. It's very clear that we've wrecked their infantry forces significantly, and their entire strategy rests upon forcing our infantry off the objective area-which we are not going to let them do  Also, something we need to do right now is move our AT guns into position to deal with the SPAA and Wespe that are currently mulching 1st platoon. In retrospect, this is probably something we should have done a few turns ago, so that they'd be in position and ready to fire in time for the platoon's advance-but as it is, we have got to get them into a more effective position.
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Aug 15, 2016 20:47
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Yes, I understand that. Of course it's entirely possible that the Panther will simply turn towards the Easy Eight and kill it, since that's what happened last time... Since Gnoman isn't here, I guess I should issue provisional move orders on that side, then? AT gun #2 QUICK to Z22, FACE north? EDIT: and if we're issuing provisional orders, mortar fire mission, AREA L8-M9 (or as close to infantry contacts there as possible), HEAVY, MAXIMUM, IMMEDIATE? Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 20:51
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I think I can't add anything more to this (and I added precious little to begin with), so you can consider this my resignation. See you folks in the observer thread when this is over.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:17
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Thanks for the game, and I appreciate that you've stuck it out so far. That can be just as important as having a good knowledge of the game.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:58
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Guess I'd better do final orders: 1st Company "Vera Lynn Appreciation Society Of Matakawau"  Company HQ Orders: No Change Company HQ 30Cal team: Target any unit visible. If they can't see anyone, area fire in the same area as they did last time. Platoons: Do whatever you drat well want.
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Aug 16, 2016 08:06
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 1st squad: Panic! 2nd squad: HIDE. 3rd squad: A Team: HIDE. B Team: If there are any bazooka rounds left, TARGET the SPAA. Otherwise HIDE. C Team: HIDE. HQ: Continue previous orders. Towed AT Guns Limber and move the 2nd AT gun to Y17, using the closest truck available. DEPLOY at Y17.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:27
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Acebuckeye13 posted:What is this, the American Army or the French army I agree that while the easy 8 is alive there is a chance, it's just very slim. Even if we do knock out the Panther this round it'll be a tall order to kill that other Panther. We would basically need to maneuver our lone 8 in such a way that it got a side-on shot on the Panther while the cruel and cunning Nazi minds over in the other camp do their best to avoid exactly that scenario. This whole game there has only been one side-on engagement of a big tank (Fray vs the Panther) because tank commanders are very careful about their facing. It just doesn't seem that likely. Plus, our infantry is going to get even more chewed up while we try and make that Panther kill happen. I think the chances are just too slim. Our best - and in retrospect, our only - shot at taking out that western Panther was back a few turns ago when it was shooting at Chitoryu's jumbo. It's not a big deal, we made a pretty good showing but in the end we lost the tank battle. I think in future games what might be helpful is having a full time "quartermaster" position on each team whose only duty is to be familiar with the ordnance/hardware/game and quickly go through teammates' orders and evaluate whether or not they're within the unit's capabilities. Can a Stuart take out a Panther from the side? Can a panzerfaust take out a Sherman from the front? What are the chances that a bazooka team lands a shot on this vehicle at that range? I see you're not using your mortar this turn, did you know that mortars are awesome? Those sorts of things.
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Aug 16, 2016 16:01
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Cathode Raymond posted:I think in future games what might be helpful is having a full time "quartermaster" position on each team whose only duty is to be familiar with the ordnance/hardware/game and quickly go through teammates' orders and evaluate whether or not they're within the unit's capabilities. Can a Stuart take out a Panther from the side? Can a panzerfaust take out a Sherman from the front? What are the chances that a bazooka team lands a shot on this vehicle at that range? I see you're not using your mortar this turn, did you know that mortars are awesome? Those sorts of things. That kind of defeats the purpose of having the goon-run LP though. I liked the last game where each side had a dedicated order input person who could finagle with all the LoS and sanity checks in a helpful way instead of the default "gently caress you I'm interpreting your orders as conveniently as possible" we get when it all falls on one person. I think this game went downhill when we saw the enemy tanks and didn't immediately rain everything we had down on them. That scramble to defeat the enemy tanks really defined the last game, and the rest was just cleanup. Seems like we went for the latter without bothering with the former until it was too late.
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Aug 16, 2016 16:54
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 Final orders, hide those guns and make our way back behind friendly lines for coffee and the next USO show.
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Aug 16, 2016 18:28
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 Turn 15 https://youtu.be/CKJVnj3X4pI Next turn Fri 12pm est
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Aug 16, 2016 21:53
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For the love of...  We surrender. Good game to the German team. EDIT: For real though, anybody who's deeply experienced with the game, why did the Easy Eight not attempt to use the APCR round? I could understand using it and missing, but after bouncing the first two shots you'd think they'd have pulled out the big one. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 22:00
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Well I did a few play throughs before you guys gave orders and if the panther had stayed there on the second shot (on average) of turn 15 the sherman would use the apcr round and it would kill the panther.
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Aug 16, 2016 22:16
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Davin Valkri posted:For the love of... The combat mission series isn't exactly well designed and suffers from traditional Grog Game syndrome, being unique stuff in a niche market that has no competition to speak of, not really. So, in this case, probably because it's a janky game. 
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Aug 16, 2016 22:23
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Good game allied bros - gonna migrate over to the main thread.
professor_curly fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 22:25
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Good game everybody.
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Aug 16, 2016 22:33
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That went about like I expected. Good game all around Ameribros.
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Aug 16, 2016 23:15
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Thanks Americans for a game well played. You threw us a lot of curve balls, and kept us constantly guessing, dealing major blows to our morale on more than one occasion. With a little more luck on your side, this could have been a very close match.
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Aug 17, 2016 04:59
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Thanks to dtkozl for running the game for us. You got the scale right for a real big messup. Thanks to Jaguars! for being my very capable XO. I'm pretty sure if you'd been in command from the start the Americans would've won easy. Thanks to Decoy Badger for being the team cartographer and taking over 1st Platoon in the end. You showed all the organization and drive that would really go far in these games. Thanks to Apocron, AceBuckeye13, and MohawkSatan for taking platoon command slots. Those were big responsibilities and you pulled it off well. And lastly but not leastly thanks to everybody who signed up and everybody who stayed on till the bitter, bitter end. That a cease fire would have assessed the game as a minor US victory is all on you. I just wish I could've gotten an actual victory for you. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 06:27
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