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How good a LOS do you think I could get from the two hills in the corners (Farlander heights and Ten Numb Hill on the map with names)? I was considering those as spots if I can see past the trees due to height. Otherwise it looks like NE Arvel's Grove or the middle of Celchu's Woods would be decent spots, but those are a lot further away. My ideal plan for the towed guns (since they'll probably be able to handle the more likely German armor options at range if they're 57s) is to get them firing as soon as possible - even if I don't kill anything that should disrupt their advance and create an opening for the mobile units to exploit.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:03
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the corner hills are pretty thick woods which prevent any vehicles moving through so i'd avoid them unless you think you are about to get flanked hard.
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Jun 15, 2016 14:34
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So it seems like the best use of the flame tank would be to take it up to the Porkins Farm and burn it to the ground; otherwise, there aren't really any locations where German infantry might dig in to the point where we need the flamethrower to extract them. The trick will be getting it there alive. If we can do that, however, it lets us use our artillery to shell the forest south of Porkins Farm (the Central Janson Forest?) and the East Janson Forest up to the Y or Z column from Turn 1 as a way of screening us while we move up.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:07
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chitoryu12 posted:Exhaust Port Crossing and the road going north-south through the forest north of it seems to be where the bulk of the German vehicles will be at the beginning, as vehicles can't cross thick forest and will need to use that road. Acebuckeye13 and I had the idea of sending the Easy Eights to the east near Farrel's Forest to get a firing angle on that crossing early in the fight (maybe send a Stuart there to recon the crossing in advance first?) and harass the German tanks and guns coming through there. The buildings at South Road Junction should provide good cover for the Jumbo, Crocodile, and AT guns to spread their fire east to west across the main objective. I think this is a good idea regarding the 8's, and I think we should send a Stuart ahead to recon first. Also, I think it is a good idea to keep the 8's together and on the move, hunting for whatever the biggest german armor is.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:31
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The Sandman posted:So it seems like the best use of the flame tank would be to take it up to the Porkins Farm and burn it to the ground; otherwise, there aren't really any locations where German infantry might dig in to the point where we need the flamethrower to extract them. The trick will be getting it there alive. I had to check the map to confirm where Porkins Farm is, but that's not only on their side of the map, it's also parked right on their expected main line of advance for their armor, so I'm not sure how viable that is. Also bear in mind that our artillery consists of one battery of 81 mm mortars with an unknown number of rounds.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:32
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The Sandman posted:So it seems like the best use of the flame tank would be to take it up to the Porkins Farm and burn it to the ground; otherwise, there aren't really any locations where German infantry might dig in to the point where we need the flamethrower to extract them. The trick will be getting it there alive. My counterpoint would be that the best move would be to leave the flame tank in the back, at least initially-it's primarily an anti-infantry asset, after all, and won't be of tremendous help during initial contact when there's still tons of anti-tank assets moving around. I say we keep it in reserve until we eliminate their anti-tank assets, and only then bring it up to deal with lingering German infantry in the objective area.
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Jun 15, 2016 15:34
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Hey guys looks like we are almost there. Hit up your friends/spread the word! OG thread will be officially closed to you guys starting tomorrow morning 8AM EST and we will get this party started!
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Jun 15, 2016 15:43
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Lets show off the allies inf a bit. I know we don't have a full platoon yet, so let's move towards filling things out first. Remember your infantry is Veteran but suffers from low leadership. No one wants to be the last KIA in this war! Platoon HQ Apocron with 60mm mortar:  1/1 Squad David Corbett  1/2 Squad Decrepus  1/3 Squad (((Decoy Badger)))  Looks like 2nd platoon follows the same trend with bazookas in 2 and 3 squad, while 3 platoon has a bazooka only in 1 squad. I'll post those just so everyone knows what they got later when everything is assigned and as start. dtkozl fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 16:40
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I have signed up for some little plastic pixel americans. I hope to put them in some woods and then have a barbecue in the wreckage of a tank. Cool? Does my platoon chappie have a tommy gun like some low-life gangster?
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Jun 15, 2016 17:01
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goatface posted:I have signed up for some little plastic pixel americans. I hope to put them in some woods and then have a barbecue in the wreckage of a tank. Cool? Your squad NCO should in fact have a Thompson. You've also got Garands, so you, Sandman, and SeanBeansShako will be able to cover each other with suppressing fire better than your German equivalent. 3rd platoon! Okay, so 3rd Squad (led by SeanBeansShako) has the only anti-armour asset in our platoon. This means 3rd is gonna be our reserve squad, getting deployed to provide suppressing fire, or assistance as needed. They're not going to be going into the meat grinder first. That's going to be 1st and 2nd Squads, led by The Sandman and goatface respectively. Keep far enough apart to avoid getting hit by the same shell, and close enough together to provide support. You'll have a lot of leeway in how you want to do things, so just keep Jaguars guide in mind, and you might not even die horribly.
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Jun 15, 2016 19:17
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MohawkSatan posted:Your squad NCO should in fact have a Thompson. You've also got Garands, so you, Sandman, and SeanBeansShako will be able to cover each other with suppressing fire better than your German equivalent. If I remember correctly, the firepower composition of American and German squads is totally different and a major part of fighting them. German squads each have an MG 42 (I think discounting specialized squads like Panzerschreck squads?) which forms the base of their firepower. This gives the squads organic machine gun firepower, but also means that once their machine gun is taken out they lose the bulk of their firepower (soldiers can pick up discarded weapons and keep firing, but at lower skill level and thus lower effectiveness). American squads have separate machine gun units that have to be organized individually and the individual squads don't have anything more than BARs, but the semi-auto rifles give a greater spread of firepower that doesn't disappear as fast with casualties.
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Jun 15, 2016 20:03
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Zero anti-tank? In this battlefield? I demand a building to hide in until it gets demolished by a King Tiger.
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Jun 15, 2016 20:45
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I highly doubt the infantry teams will ever be in range of those menacing armored vehicles to be able to use their anti-tank, so it's fine.
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Jun 15, 2016 20:49
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goatface posted:I have signed up for some little plastic pixel americans. I hope to put them in some woods and then have a barbecue in the wreckage of a tank. Cool? My tank will burn the brightest and longest once it gets wrecked. Also, thanks for signing up! We almost have a full roster. I would thank the others from the arena thread who joined but according to the spreadsheet THEY ARE FILTHY FASCISTS and so will have to be burnt to death in the name of democracy.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:20
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Nice, almost a full roster! For the benefit of the new sign-ups, here's the two things from yesterday I need you to see.Jaguars! posted:Still at work atm, but I grabbed one of my old tutorials from the Red Thunder thread. This is the world's most basic formula for winning a firefight and I expect all infantry to stick to it. And here's my preliminary plan, things may change, especially once we know what the tanks are doing. If nothing else, note the areas the three platoons will operate in and how they envelope the center objective as much as practical. Jaguars! posted:Here's an illustration of my earlier thoughts how the infantry company will move. The orange text reads "Fire support" and "Defensive Fire". This is very much spitballing, feel free to ask questions or suggest. Are we going to have anyone controlling the tanks as a company? I think we need some co-ordination there too.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:34
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Jaguars! posted:Nice, almost a full roster! For the benefit of the new sign-ups, here's the two things from yesterday I need you to see. I think the tanks fall under company commander.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:39
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Definitely not me, Company commander only refers to the infantry company. It also depends whether Davin wants to direct his tanks personally or delegate it to someone else.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:44
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Jaguars! posted:Definitely not me, Company commander only refers to the infantry company. It also depends whether Davin wants to direct his tanks personally or delegate it to someone else. But I don't own any tanks? Just an M20 Scout Car, a mortar barrage, and a command team. But speaking of tanks, I see an area of forest on the left (west) flank that looks a bit thinner compared to the rest of it. It's F-17 or so on the gridded map, and northeast of the words "Arvel's Grove" on the landmark map. Can tanks go through that? Also, Jaguars!, I like your plan in large part, but I'm not sure if the platoon that takes the South Road Junction should also be the one that advances to the main objective, since that's basically a frontal assault. It might be better to have that platoon act as fire support (especially from the houses NW of the South Road Junction, N-19 on the grid map), and have the platoon you have labelled as "flanking" be the one that presses the assault, especially if they can be supported by tanks. But that might just be me being silly.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:51
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I did my thing. The roll20 now has a map-editor-pulled map with heightlines that is accurate to the roll20 ruler. (Tiles are 20x20 meters.) It's slightly off for... some reason, but I eventually just kludged it after a hour or so of poking at it. (I think the image provided was somewhat off. Not actually an issue.) You'll have to re-scribble your deceitful plans on it.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:54
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Davin Valkri posted:
I am also curious about this because it makes a big difference as to whether we're willing to send our 8's left. If it can't be gone through, I think we should send them right, going wide and sticking to the high ground with the eventual aim of parking near a strip of forest and facing toward the map's center.
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Jun 15, 2016 21:57
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Cathode Raymond posted:I am also curious about this because it makes a big difference as to whether we're willing to send our 8's left. If it can't be gone through, I think we should send them right, going wide and sticking to the high ground with the eventual aim of parking near a strip of forest and facing toward the map's center. I don't believe we can get through there, having played the demo. It's unlikely that our vehicles can flank left until they go north up the road from the spawn and reach the South Road Junction. Infantry can pass through the forest, albeit slowly. I'm betting the Germans are going to try and push most of their vehicles through the road just south of the North Farm, as it's the only path they have through the trees and any vehicles they leave behind will be relegated to trying to provide supporting fire through the trees. While this means their vehicles will be deposited out of the bottleneck practically inside the main objective, we have more room to spread out our force and pincer the center of the map. I also think they'll want to support their vehicles with infantry, putting a large portion of their forces on the eastern side of their treeline.
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Jun 15, 2016 22:10
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chitoryu12 posted:I don't believe we can get through there, having played the demo. It's unlikely that our vehicles can flank left until they go north up the road from the spawn and reach the South Road Junction. Infantry can pass through the forest, albeit slowly. If they can't get through the trees either, then most of their vehicles will be coming through the road bottleneck and the remainder (maybe the TD) will go west and take a high position and maybe try to fire through the trees(?) You know, we might want to just scoot the 8's into the very earliest available position with good lines on that road 
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Jun 15, 2016 22:22
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Someone is going to to make the goony-goon aggressive rush play. The only question is do we want it to be us?
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Jun 15, 2016 22:27
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1/3 Squad reporting! How bad is it to walk through snow versus roads? Would it exhaust infantry just walking up to the NW forest?
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Jun 15, 2016 22:31
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goatface posted:Someone is going to to make the goony-goon aggressive rush play. The only question is do we want it to be us? We have to rush to some extent, because the best defensive position for the main objective is right on top of it. Whoever gets there first will have a major advantage in gunning down anyone who approaches. Now, a crazy thought occurs: could we block the road in the northern woods with a recon tank? If so, it might be worth rushing one up there; if Porkins Farm is empty, we can occupy it, and if it isn’t, the burning shell of the recon tank will keep the Germans from using the road until it's cleared.
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Jun 15, 2016 22:57
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Cathode Raymond posted:You know, we might want to just scoot the 8's into the very earliest available position with good lines on that road This may very well be the best decision-after all, whoever fires first is typically the victor in a tank-on-tank engagement. On the other hand... goatface posted:Someone is going to to make the goony-goon aggressive rush play. The only question is do we want it to be us? The biggest benefit we have is that we're not nearly as bottlenecked by the terrain as the Germans are. Especially with the Easy 8s-I'll have to check, but it's very likely they'll have an easier time of making it through the snow than almost any other vehicle on either side. Personally, my suggestion would be a quick and rapid movement within the first five minutes of almost all our mobile assets to secure a number of strategic points across the map, like so:  To explain: -The Red line represents the Easy 8s and two squads of tank-riders. They use their mobility to secure covered positions near Celchu's Wood and Farrell's Forest, and the offloaded infantry would then move into Farrell's Forest to screen for them. -The Orange Line represents our assault tanks, the Jumbo and the M4A3 Zippo. They, along with another two squads of tank-riders, move up to the Antillies fork and secure covered positions there. -The Blue line represents the 57mm anti-tank guns. They move in front of the tanks, and secure firing positions in cover alongside the road. -The Green Line is our recon and another squads of infantry. The Stuarts secure flanking shots on the Pike heading south towards the crossroads, while the infantry moves through the forest to try and detect enemy infantry or -Finally, the white line represents a potential area for smoke bombardment to prevent the Germans from detecting (Or at the very least, recognizing the full scope of) our movements. --Quick edit-- The primary advantage of this movement is that it effectively cuts off the road from German use-they won't be able to move anything down the road with eight guns pointed at them from four different directions, and that will greatly slow their ability to move into the town quickly and to secure defensive positions. Meanwhile, this will allow our infantry to move up to the objective in a relatively protected fashion, and allow us to occupy and secure the objective without a tremendous amount of resistance from within the objective area itself. ------- Obviously this is all back-of-the napkin planning, and half the spots I chose might actually be terrible due to LoS issues or infeasibility of moving troops there. However, I do think we have to recognize that our starting location will possibly be our greatest asset in this fight, and we should definitely work towards making the most of it. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 23:09
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Just to confirm, what does my 81mm mortar battery have access to? Lots of shots and smoke, or is it literally one salvo of shots?
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Jun 15, 2016 23:16
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goatface posted:Someone is going to to make the goony-goon aggressive rush play. The only question is do we want it to be us? We're in Belgium, we have the high ground as well as a nearby scattering of urban buildings near the middle of the map. As one of the Infantry guys I got a good feeling about this. All we need to do is wait for the rain.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:21
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Davin Valkri posted:Just to confirm, what does my 81mm mortar battery have access to? Lots of shots and smoke, or is it literally one salvo of shots? Each tube has 10 rounds of HE and one round of WP. Sooooo, not a lot to work with. (Also, a quick refresher to those who don't know how artillery in these games work-when you call in artillery, you literally plot a fire mission-bombardment type (Point, area, or line), mission duration (Quick burst or a long bombardment) and intensity (Just a few shells or everything they can stick in the tubes). So depending on how many tubes we have access to, we can probably fire off at few light bombardments, or blow our load on one or two real heavy ones.) Edit: Oh yeah we'll also have access to a couple 60mm mortars* from each platoon, which should be good for disrupting the German infantry if they end up digging in anywhere. *Standard load is 32 HE rounds per tube, but no smoke. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jun 15, 2016 |
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Jun 15, 2016 23:22
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I have signed up as cannon fodder 2/3 Now to figure out what exactly is going on.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:39
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Keep in mind that our Shermans have access to smoke as well, with the Jumbo and 8s having WP and the Zippo having non-phosphorus smoke. We can deposit smoke onto pinpoint spots within line of sight.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:44
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Acebuckeye13 posted:TACTICS Unfortunately, I disagree with this plan. The anti-tank guns will be inherently slower then our tanks, for one, given they are on wheel-bound trucks and need to be unlimbered and set up and so on. Putting them that far up does us no real favors other then letting them get mulched by that SP-AA, which has nothing better to do then mulch things. We also need an infantry squad on the major objective, as it's a lot harder to dislodge a bunch of dudes from the Occupy zone then it is to kick off a fat tank. (At least when there are tanks all around, anyway.) I am also unsure if an entire squad can fit on a tank as a single rider unit. The German-Soviet one we had to do two tanks for one, if I recall correctly. Someone please confirm. (In this game!) Now, that said. I do agree with a few of the fundamentals. The shermans going east with a single squad of infantry to bolster them is good! I think it's a given the area will get flanked by something, so the AT-guns are right out and infantry are required to peep. I believe the AT-guns should hold up at the minor objective facing north west. It'll deter any sneaky flanks and, of course, occupy the spot. The Jumbo and Assault tanks can lumber down the road into the objective proper. Also of note; mortars have two firing modes in Combat Mission. They have direct fire, which they can do if they have a line of sight on the target and they'll just attack it like any other unit and indirect fire, which takes for loving ever and uses the usual artillery interface. Given that they're mortars, it might be wise to just lob shells at things directly.
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Jun 15, 2016 23:50
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The Sandman posted:We have to rush to some extent, because the best defensive position for the main objective is right on top of it. Whoever gets there first will have a major advantage in gunning down anyone who approaches. I definitely agree on a rush. With the short distances between both sides here, whichever side makes it there first will be able to fire as the other approaches and disrupt their advance. If we delay too long in reaching the East-West Road, we could easily arrive too late and be forced to dislodge the enemies instead of keeping them out. Porkins Farm is basically off-limits, though: the Germans start right next to it. Considering the bottleneck the Germans have to go through, it may be prudent (if unsporting) to drop mortars on that bottleneck to delay the advance of their vehicles.
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Jun 16, 2016 00:22
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chitoryu12 posted:Considering the bottleneck the Germans have to go through, it may be prudent (if unsporting) to drop mortars on that bottleneck to delay the advance of their vehicles. I was just going to bring that up. You can start an artillery bombardment immediately at the beginning of the game. Personally I think it's gamey, but unless there is some agreed upon rule that nobody does it, we don't want to be caught in one without doing it back to them.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:34
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goatface posted:Someone is going to to make the goony-goon aggressive rush play. The only question is do we want it to be us? The Germans should all drive and run down the right side and bowl us over.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:41
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pthighs posted:I was just going to bring that up. You can start an artillery bombardment immediately at the beginning of the game. Their artillery is by a SPG, a big wandering howitzer. It'd be pretty slow firing if they did it to use, while we have a lot more tubes going ot. That said, I'm against it. We have very little ammo and it'd be a total crap shoot. However, an immediate mission to smoke up the bottleneck road might be prudent. Depending on how long it lasts it will make them dramatically more cautious and give us the angle of surprise.
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Jun 16, 2016 01:46
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Gamerofthegame posted:Their artillery is by a SPG, a big wandering howitzer. It'd be pretty slow firing if they did it to use, while we have a lot more tubes going ot. Drop smoke on their bottleneck?
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Jun 16, 2016 01:51
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That is the thing I said, yes.
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Jun 16, 2016 02:13
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Okay, that's everybody then, cool! I'm going to post my orders now, but first, a few...let's call them "standing orders". 1) This is a game, and we're all here to have fun and enjoy ourselves. Yes, even the German players. If you ever start to get angry or frustrated at how things are going, I sympathize, but take a deep breath and remind yourself that it's not worth it to get worked up over pixelshooters. 2) As previously mentioned, I'm an idiot. If you think my orders are stupid and dumb, please tell me so and explain why. 3) dtkozl drew up a map with a grid on it in the initial package. Referring to "Skywalker Highway" and "Exhaust Port Crossing" may help with general planning, but please, for their sake, put grid references in your orders if you need fine details. Also remember to put your orders in the thread, if you plan them out on roll20. And now, the battalion orders:      I. Situation a) Friendly Forces: 1 infantry company with 1 mixed armored platoon (light tanks, jumbo, flamethrower, Easy Eights) and 1 AT gun detachment. 1 battery of medium mortars in support b) Enemy Forces: Unknown, but expect similar broad strokes, with perhaps slightly more artillery available (1 infantry company, with mixed armor, assault guns/StuGs, and artillery/AT guns/FlaK equal to about a platoon in support). i) Enemy most likely course of action: Rapid assault with infantry and armor into the center of the map. ii) Enemy most dangerous course of action: Possible "defeat in detail" of our forces through use of long-range firepower (read: Tigers, Panthers, MG42s) II. Mission Battalion will secure East-West Road (Main Objective) and South Road Junction for follow on forces. Expected time in contact: 45 minutes. III. Execution a) Commander's Intent Have at least one platoon of infantry, with supporting armor elements, on both objectives, in mutual support. Additional overwatch should be provided from armor and infantry on or near the "firing line" on Z20 and/or CC17 ("Farrel's Forest"). The Germans are expected to deploy their vehicles and main assault along the road from their side of the map to the Main Objective at T14-V12 ("Exhaust Port Crossing")--this road will be covered by Easy Eights and AT guns. Desired endstate is US infantry happily on both objectives, with German infantry/vehicles unable to approach without being shot at/destroyed. b) Concept of Execution Phase One: Establishing Overwatch  (Locations are approximate--lower level commanders have full discretion to adjust details and fine positioning as they see fit) M5A1s, AT Guns, 1st platoon and one recon tank move across "Celchu Woods" to establish anti-armor and anti-infantry overwatch over Exhaust Port Crossing. 2st platoon and remaining armor (except Easy Eights), take South Road Junction. 3rd Platoon and Easy Eights establish overwatch on left flank, with infantry preparing to assault the center. Battalion CO orders all 81mm smoke shells available at V12 to launch at H-Hour + 7'00"; armor assets may employ smoke at their discretion. Expected time to completion: 10-15 minutes Phase Two: Assault Commences  (Locations are obsolete per changes to Phase 1--lower level commanders have full discretion to adjust details and fine positioning as they see fit) 3rd Platoon and assault armor attack East-West Road through 2nd Platoon. All other assets provide overwatch. 81mm barrage to be held in reserve for viable soft targets. Expected time to completion: till end of contact. c) "Tasks"/Unit Responsibilities ORBAT as linked. IV. Administration Not Applicable This Battle V. Command Battalion CO is Davin Valkri. Alternates to include Jaguars! (priority one), chitoryu12, gamerofthegame, Acebuckeye13, The Sandman, MohawkSatan not necessarily in order. Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 02:46
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How long does smoke last? Are we going to miss out on shots on that bottleneck by dropping smoke there? Edit: Also, are the AT guns going to be able to get out that far in the snow? Cathode Raymond fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 02:54
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