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ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012
So I have this 86 Ranger.




I want to turn it into some cool offroading thing. Something like this:




Aaaand I have until July 24th to make it happen. I have some tools at my disposal:
12 ton harbor freight tubing bender
Summit racing tubing notcher
Plasma cutter
Welder
Chop saw
A bunch of other hand tools and stuff

I also Have some Fox shocks for the rear and some very heavy duty heim joints for the 4 link. Some 2" DOM is on the way for the 4 link. I also have a (almost done) rebuilt (by me) 5.0 with GT40P heads out of an '86 Mustang GT and a T5 world class transmission from a Cobra ('87 I think).

What I don't have is know-how. I can throw about $3000 more at it. I need help from goons to get it all done.

First questions:
What transfer case do I use? The T5 is straight out of a mustang and I've heard that I might need to change the tailshaft(?). I've also read about doublers and being able to run just the front axle which would be cool if we can fit that into the budget.
4-link: I understand that the upper links and lower links should be mounted as close as possible to the same longitudinal points so that the rear diff yoke swings on an axis instead of getting more angular as the suspension travels. That is all I understand about the geometry of a 4-link. Would it be best to try to make the front mounts of all 4 links at the approximate location of the yoke coming out of the xfer case? Then the 4 links and driveshaft would all travel together. I really don't know.


I also have this problem:



There's about a quarter sized hole in the front diff. I have a friend that swears he can weld it shut. I don't know how well that will work out.

ChewedFood fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 18, 2016

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TWSS
Jun 19, 2008
Were you planning to learn how to use those tools to finish your project, or are you actually hoping a swarm of goons will descend and put $10,000 of labour into finishing it for you?

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.
Just weld some seats to that frame, put the engine and a driveshaft to the rear and a roll cage :v:

I think you have more than a month's worth of work to do.

For the four-link setup, you want something similar to a Wrangler's control arms when viewed from the side: a trapezoid that keeps the diff yoke pointed roughly at the transfer case output. From the top view, you'll have the double triangle that keeps the axle centered. This kind of setup requires a driveshaft with a double-cardan (or some other kind of constant-velocity joint) at the transfer case yoke.

Don't get slag in the internals of that front differential when it gets welded. This is the time to make sure both axles have the exact same gear ratio. Don't wait until there's a truck over it to regear.

In the interest of saving time, don't gently caress with a doubler. If we need to roll in fwd mode, we'll just remove the rear axle. You'll be carrying the tools to change u-joints and tires on the trail, which should cover that too. Make sure your toolbag is secured well enough that rolling the truck doesn't send it smashing into our heads.

Get that tailhousing and transfer case situation sorted out asap. You need to get the engine mounted up and the four link done up before you can start figuring out the driveshafts (you need to know what kind of u-joints the yokes use and the minimum and maximum lengths they will go through when the axles flex). Kastein might be able to jeep whisper up a parts list if this were a jeeprod, but you are kinda doing this the hard way.

Wait. Is that a TTB front axle? Aren't those a total pain in the rear end to lift, modify, etc? I think a junkyard trip for stronger axles is required.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe
the gently caress is this

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
We are legion.

Also: Hole in the diff? From what? Something going in or coming out :iiam:

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
Let's crate up Kastein and ship him over.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

TWSS posted:

Were you planning to learn how to use those tools to finish your project, or are you actually hoping a swarm of goons will descend and put $10,000 of labour into finishing it for you?

I guess I should have been more clear. I know how to use the tools. I don't know how to make the truck work. Like the transmission tailpiece question. That's why I'm in a forum about cars not tools.

Also, I have no expectations of this thing looking good. I expect it to take a good beating. There will be very little painting. I'm not making half doors. It needs to be drivable.

ChewedFood fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 17, 2016

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe
haha thats your budget for the cage right?


Seriously. you can't go from the first pic to the goal for 3000. Even if you buy FOA shocks, you're still looking at 10-12 thou, and 4-500 hours of fab time.
(a decently built -rear- axle will eat 3 thou alone)

bob it, channel it, Cage it, boatside it. throw some yota solid axles under it, rock the leafs or go quarter elliptical. you'll be just fine.



"heavy duty heims" who made them, and full details.

I'm not making GBS threads on you, I don't want you to die or end up with a garage full of metal parts.




kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
CSB is right, though his budget numbers may be a bit off, I'm not sure. EightBit is also right.

I hope you are expecting to take the entire time off of work because if you want this done by your deadline, it's going to involve not working on anything else, 12 hour days, and possibly not sleeping.

For the suspension, look up a 4-link calculator spreadsheet. I would urge you to do a 3-link instead, honestly. Bear in mind a triangulated 3 link or 4 link will absolutely require hydro steering (add another 1-2k to your budget) and a non triangulated one using a track bar will not. This is all assuming you mean front suspension, if you are keeping the stock TTB front suspension you can leave it right the hell alone but TTB sucks.

For rear suspension, go with a triangulated 4 link, again, you want to use a 4-link calculator spreadsheet to figure out all your angles and poo poo. Try to keep your roll steer minimal, the one you posted looks alright for that from that angle but I can't really tell. Roll steer is basically where the rearend will have a different thrust angle depending on which way the suspension is flexed, and is not something you want.

You can do a cage for way less than 3000 if you are designing, bending, and welding it yourself. I wouldn't go under 1.75x0.120 DOM for a rock crawling cage. If you haven't done so already, price your cage DOM from Marmon Keystone, most of my friends have gotten the best price quote from them and they deliver. Speaking of which, what wall thickness is the tubing you got for the 4 link? What rearend is in your Ranger, the 28 spline 8.8 (kinda lovely) or the 7.5 (really lovely)? Hope you intend to replace the diff cover with a beefy aftermarket one too, those stock covers are like pie tins. Where are you getting driveshaft(s) made? Have you figured shipping time on all the parts you need to order into your build schedule?

I know nothing about 4x4 converting a T5.

The HF pipe benderkinker sucks balls. You want a JDsquared or gottrikes bender, preferably.

Gingerbread House Music
Dec 1, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
First step would be to sell that T5WC and replace it with something that won't explode when you get apply rocks and throttle to it.

Gingerbread House Music
Dec 1, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy
Basically buy a rotten solid axle ford fullsize, slap those axles/tcase/trans into it and tube the rear. Then if there's any money left, buy tires and break it all, lol.

Astonishing Wang
Nov 3, 2004

Ozmiander posted:

Basically buy a rotten solid axle ford fullsize, slap those axles/tcase/trans into it and tube the rear. Then if there's any money left, buy tires and break it all, lol.

Heck yeah to this plan!

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

cursedshitbox posted:

haha thats your budget for the cage right?


Seriously. you can't go from the first pic to the goal for 3000. Even if you buy FOA shocks, you're still looking at 10-12 thou, and 4-500 hours of fab time.
(a decently built -rear- axle will eat 3 thou alone)

bob it, channel it, Cage it, boatside it. throw some yota solid axles under it, rock the leafs or go quarter elliptical. you'll be just fine.


"heavy duty heims" who made them, and full details.

I'm not making GBS threads on you, I don't want you to die or end up with a garage full of metal parts.

I'll get pictures of all the parts that are standing by today.




kastein posted:

CSB is right, though his budget numbers may be a bit off, I'm not sure. EightBit is also right.

I hope you are expecting to take the entire time off of work because if you want this done by your deadline, it's going to involve not working on anything else, 12 hour days, and possibly not sleeping.

For the suspension, look up a 4-link calculator spreadsheet. I would urge you to do a 3-link instead, honestly. Bear in mind a triangulated 3 link or 4 link will absolutely require hydro steering (add another 1-2k to your budget) and a non triangulated one using a track bar will not. This is all assuming you mean front suspension, if you are keeping the stock TTB front suspension you can leave it right the hell alone but TTB sucks.

For rear suspension, go with a triangulated 4 link, again, you want to use a 4-link calculator spreadsheet to figure out all your angles and poo poo. Try to keep your roll steer minimal, the one you posted looks alright for that from that angle but I can't really tell. Roll steer is basically where the rearend will have a different thrust angle depending on which way the suspension is flexed, and is not something you want.

You can do a cage for way less than 3000 if you are designing, bending, and welding it yourself. I wouldn't go under 1.75x0.120 DOM for a rock crawling cage. If you haven't done so already, price your cage DOM from Marmon Keystone, most of my friends have gotten the best price quote from them and they deliver. Speaking of which, what wall thickness is the tubing you got for the 4 link? What rearend is in your Ranger, the 28 spline 8.8 (kinda lovely) or the 7.5 (really lovely)? Hope you intend to replace the diff cover with a beefy aftermarket one too, those stock covers are like pie tins. Where are you getting driveshaft(s) made? Have you figured shipping time on all the parts you need to order into your build schedule?

I know nothing about 4x4 converting a T5.

The HF pipe benderkinker sucks balls. You want a JDsquared or gottrikes bender, preferably.

2" DOM with .120 walls for the 4 link. 7.5" rear end and multiple people have told me that it just won't handle off roading but I've taken it off roading before I took the whole truck apart and it didn't explode. I was going to use that diff and the current front suspension until I needed something more.
I wish I would have known about the tubing bender thing before I got the harbor freight one. Is it so bad that I need to send it back and buy one from jdsquared?

As for metal supply, a good friend of mine runs a fabrication shop out of his garage so I just add my metal orders onto his. Usually takes a week or two to get it but I get it at a huge discount.

Maybe I have been too optimistic about how fast I can get this done. However, my budget for the whole thing was $6000 and I've got three left but not really a lot of parts left to buy. And since I plan on doing all the fab myself, I think it can be done.

I think I posted a picture of a goal that was too nice. I'm not taking this to Moab, I'm taking this on the dirt trails around here that have some bumps and tree roots to drive over. I can't justify hacking the frame up other than it will look really cool. I'm not building my retirement dream crawler I'm just looking to go break this little ranger on some trees. It was mostly an excuse to use all these tools.

What transmission goes from 5.0 to a transfer case? Maybe I can steal a bronco transmission and transfer case.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

Ozmiander posted:

Basically buy a rotten solid axle ford fullsize, slap those axles/tcase/trans into it and tube the rear. Then if there's any money left, buy tires and break it all, lol.

This is definitely how this project should have started. Maybe I'll still do this. If I can get a whole bronco, it would be easy enough but then maybe I should just use a bronco.

CommieGIR posted:

We are legion.

Also: Hole in the diff? From what? Something going in or coming out :iiam:

I don't know but I plan on finding out today.

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗
Easiest transmission would be a C4 or C6.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

iwentdoodie posted:

Easiest transmission would be a C4 or C6.

Aw but I really want it to be manual. I got an offer for my t5 for $500 today, makes it real easy to change that plan. I could get the tranny and xfer case from a 5.0 explorer or bronco if they made that. I think the explorers were all electronic xfer cases though. I don't know how to make that work with a computer. If I got the auto tranny and transfer case from an explorer, I could also just use its computer but it will be way less fun with no levers and pedals to play with.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
I've got to ask, what have you spent the other $3k on?

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde

InitialDave posted:

I've got to ask, what have you spent the other $3k on?

Meth

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
I doubt it, we've seen how that results in a much better thread.

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

InitialDave posted:

I doubt it, we've seen how that results in a much better thread.

This is the far more usual side of it.

Gingerbread House Music
Dec 1, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy

ChewedFood posted:

Aw but I really want it to be manual. I got an offer for my t5 for $500 today, makes it real easy to change that plan. I could get the tranny and xfer case from a 5.0 explorer or bronco if they made that. I think the explorers were all electronic xfer cases though. I don't know how to make that work with a computer. If I got the auto tranny and transfer case from an explorer, I could also just use its computer but it will be way less fun with no levers and pedals to play with.

T18/T19. Possibly from the donor truck, depending on year and luck.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

InitialDave posted:

I've got to ask, what have you spent the other $3k on?

$1000 on the truck, about $1500 rebuilding this 5.0, $500 on the t5, $200 on the shocks, $200 on the big rear end light bar, $440 on heim joints. Then I sold the old transmission and transfer case for $300 and the c4 from the mustang for $50. I'm not good at math.

I also have come to the realization that i can not get this done in time. I shouldn't have started a thread yet. But if it helps me get it done then it will be worth it.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
This is a joke right? Should have been 300 for a junkyard 5.0, 0 on the lightbar, 100 on a 4x4 mantrans for that engine/tcase (what oz said or an m5od or whatever was native to the ranger/f150), and $2k on airshocks. Spend your money where it matters, on bulletproofing suspension and axles, tires, and shocks. I'm very leery of any $100ea shock that is allegedly fit for coilover+4link style suspension. $100ea whitebody monotubes for leaf/coil+link suspension? Sure, I'd believe that.

I'm also rather worried about 0.120 wall tubing for suspension arms. It would be fine for a shortarm setup but for a longarm, long travel setup, if you drop one on a ridge or something wrong it is going to go banana shaped fast. I have seen it happen too many times.

Did you buy heims with weld in threaded bungs? What size heims and what's the OD of the bung where it has to slot into the tubing?

As for the 7.5 you are wasting your time even welding link tabs to it when the explorer 8.8 is 130 from any yard and actually worth using. But hey it is your choice.

kastein fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jun 19, 2016

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗
Explorer 8.8 is at least 400 here :v:

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

kastein posted:

This is a joke right? Should have been 300 for a junkyard 5.0, 0 on the lightbar, 100 on a 4x4 mantrans for that engine/tcase (what oz said or an m5od or whatever was native to the ranger/f150), and $2k on airshocks. Spend your money where it matters, on bulletproofing suspension and axles, tires, and shocks. I'm very leery of any $100ea shock that is allegedly fit for coilover+4link style suspension. $100ea whitebody monotubes for leaf/coil+link suspension? Sure, I'd believe that.

I'm also rather worried about 0.120 wall tubing for suspension arms. It would be fine for a shortarm setup but for a longarm, long travel setup, if you drop one on a ridge or something wrong it is going to go banana shaped fast. I have seen it happen too many times.

Did you buy heims with weld in threaded bungs? What size heims and what's the OD of the bung where it has to slot into the tubing?

As for the 7.5 you are wasting your time even welding link tabs to it when the explorer 8.8 is 130 from any yard and actually worth using. But hey it is your choice.

The shocks are CL Fox 2.0 air shox




The heim joints are weld in bung 1.75"



I can get an 8.8 for about $300 here on CL it seems. I can definitely squeeze that in there. I honestly don't understand what the problem is with the 7.5 but I've been wrong too many times about this kind of thing to not take the advice. FWIW I took it off road on that 7.5 and drove it like I stole it and it held up fine (until the driveshaft died on the drive home).

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.
Did you do it with the factory size tires and engine? You're going to severely increase the shock loading on the axleshafts, the thrust loading on the bearings in the differential, and the flex of the ring and pinion gears. I'm going to guess that the 7.5 axle is weaker than a dana 35 even.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012
I found two donor 5 speed broncos that I am pursuing on craigslist. Both have bad engines but supposedly good transmissions and transfer cases. So maybe soon the axles, transmission, and transfer case problem will be mostly solved?

Are those fox air shocks not going to work for the rear end?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
They look alright to me, but I don't know if they're valved right for your setup. I didn't realize you bought them for a steal off CL, those are pretty expensive shocks if you get them new.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
Broncos use a TTB front end, so you'll still be shopping for a steer axle.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

Broncos use a TTB front end, so you'll still be shopping for a steer axle.

Is there a preferred setup I should be looking for? I don't really understand the different steering options.

It's not that I'm not willing to look it up myself, I don't really know where to start

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
If you lack experience, using a standard truck and modifying stuff as you need to is likely to result in something that better suits your needs than a scattergun build from scratch.

glyph
Apr 6, 2006



Posting so I remember to check back in a month to see if the ranger clawed itself and its owner out of the well.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Judging by the fact that nothing of import has happened in the first week of a 4-5 week build, I'm not crossing my fingers.

That being said, it takes me years to get anything remotely resembling progress done on my projects. So I can't really throw stones on the timeline side of things, just act as the depressing voice of reality.

Noise Complaint
Sep 27, 2004

Who could be scared of a Jeffrey?
OP where are you located? I have a NP435 4 speed manual with super low granny 1st grear and a BW1356 tcase out of a ford truck. I'd let it go cheap.

EightBit
Jan 7, 2006
I spent money on this line of text just to make the "Stupid Newbie" go away.
He's up in Bangor, Washington.

Noise Complaint
Sep 27, 2004

Who could be scared of a Jeffrey?
Ah that's way too far. If it were Bangor, Maine I'd deliver that poo poo in person.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012
Great now goons know where I live.... I know that's going on some weird spreadsheet somewhere.

I got a bronco! M5od r2 and bw 1356 and I think an 8.8 rear end. Pictures later. It's a 91 xlt

I have given up on the time line. I'll get done over time I guess.

autism ZX spectrum
Feb 8, 2007

by Lowtax
Fun Shoe
Mad respect on the idea, but apart from the timeframe being absolutely insane why not build a regular truggy? If you're not going over crazy rocks there's no point on going balls out on suspension/exo cage.

ChewedFood
Jul 22, 2012
Got the transmission and transfer case out today.



Not a bad looking truck IMO






Nubile Hillock posted:

Mad respect on the idea, but apart from the timeframe being absolutely insane why not build a regular truggy? If you're not going over crazy rocks there's no point on going balls out on suspension/exo cage.

Honestly, I saw some dudes absolutely tearing up the 4x4 trails next to the dirtbike trails I've been riding with similar rigs and thought I could build one myself. They were going way faster than the Jeep dweebs that just putt around out there and I watched one of them use the exo cage to ram a tree to turn his truck and it just looked really fun. I've got nothing better to do with my time or money. Also, Mad Max made me want to play with cars/trucks.

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autism ZX spectrum
Feb 8, 2007

by Lowtax
Fun Shoe
"For fun" is a pretty good reason. And that truck looks pretty clean! Sweet find.

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