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I've been a service advisor/dispatcher/assistant service manager in the car business for a little over 5 years now (Volkwswagen and NIssan), currently working at the top grossing dealer of one of those two in the Chicagoland area. In that time I've witnessed what goes on between 3 different dealers, but now that I finally have an out to something better than this soul crushing industry (and with only 3 weeks left), I'd love to answer any questions honestly about what exactly goes on in a dealership service department and help people from getting scammed like they do a million times a day. Got any questions? Ask away! I also have some tips and tricks for people wondering about the sales side, but more as a tertiary "Wow they purposely tanked that guy's credit for not buying a car" or "Wow they got them to buy a $3,000 extended warranty that literally covers 1% of the car".
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Jun 30, 2016 14:47
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How do you not get scammed? Other than the obvious "don't get the $50 wiper blades and $20 license plate light bulb"
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Jun 30, 2016 19:48
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Also, maybe it depends on the car, but what fluids do you actually have to change, and which ones are fake $$ scams? For example, both dealerships I've been to keep telling me to change the power steering fluid but the internet says that's stupid and wrong.
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Jun 30, 2016 19:51
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It depends on the car, but in general check your owners manual and add 25% to the time or mileage. Nissan says to exchange the brake fluid every 15k miles, and I've seen it not really needed until 20k. The one exception is engine oil. Most old and experiences techs will agree to stick with 3k miles/3 month intervals on conventional oil and 5k/6 months synthetic, and judging by who does what you start to see the results once a car is hitting 40-50k miles. On that topic I've never worked at a place that did fluids right. Each is supposed to have a machine that totally flushes the system, sometimes does a step with additives to clean it out, and then fill it with new stuff. For brake fluid, it should be pushed through each of the calipers. Currently our brake fluid machine has been broken for two years and the owner doesn't give a gently caress so we suck fluid from the reservoir and put new fluid in, which takes about 5 minutes and doesn't actually help the car at all. We still charge $125 and have to lie to customers. To not get scammed, knowing what your owner manual says is the biggest help you have. Every dealer I've worked at has trained their service guys to always reccomend services twice as often as the manufacturer reccomends, because money.
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Jun 30, 2016 22:18
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Interesting thread.Fenarisk posted:Every dealer I've worked at has trained their service guys to always reccomend services twice as often as the manufacturer reccomends, because money. I've seen a unicorn then. According to the manual, my new car should have been serviced by now, but the dealership guy said "The air in your tires and your oil are still really good, we usually change the oil when it has 30% lifetime left, not 71, have a nice day". Granted I haven't put a log of mileage on it. Any hints for buying new cars would be cool. I only know "buy at the end of the year". The next car in a few years will probably be something where I'll want an exact configuration on a newly released model. I won't care if it takes a few weeks get it. Is there any wiggle room in those cases?
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Jul 3, 2016 02:52
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I ussed to sell cars. Buying at the end of the year didn't really ensure any kind of better discount than any other time. Buying at the end of their quarter, maybe, at the end of the month definitely. The reason being we would often get retroactive promos like $150 per car rebate from the manufacturer if we broke 95 cars sold... well guess what, with 2 days left in the month sitting at 92 cars sold for the month, they're pretty incentivized to sell a car a few hundred bucks below invoice just to hit the bonus on everything else. However, as a consumer you have absolutely no visibility on any of this stuff, and it's their bonus, not yours. But that's why deals get a little better at the end of the month, oftentimes. The best way to approach getting a good deal is to email maybe 5 days before the end of the month that you're looking to buy before the end of the month and price shopping every local dealer for a 2016 spigot XX w/ premium package and all weather package and i'm a big baller package, and have them email you out the door price quotes for that exact config.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:06
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Fenarisk posted:It depends on the car, but in general check your owners manual and add 25% to the time or mileage. Nissan says to exchange the brake fluid every 15k miles, and I've seen it not really needed until 20k. The one exception is engine oil. Most old and experiences techs will agree to stick with 3k miles/3 month intervals on conventional oil and 5k/6 months synthetic, and judging by who does what you start to see the results once a car is hitting 40-50k miles. $125 to siphon off some fluid from the top and put some in?  Please tell me at least it comes with a flush...Man I think I did a 4 wheel brake job with all parts (incl new rotors and drums) and flush included on my last car for not much more than $125. It did take a few hours though.
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Jul 4, 2016 22:20
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Fenarisk posted:with 3k miles/3 month intervals on conventional oil and 5k/6 months synthetic this seems like a myth. newer engines have tighter tolerances and oils are optimized with better additivies. You cant straight faced tell me that both oil and engines have gotten better in the last 20 years, but oil life hasnt.
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Jul 5, 2016 01:28
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JohnGalt posted:this seems like a myth. newer engines have tighter tolerances and oils are optimized with better additivies. You cant straight faced tell me that both oil and engines have gotten better in the last 20 years, but oil life hasnt. My 2012 Mazda2 recommended 5000 mile intervals. I sent the oil in for analysis and it came back that the oil looked fine, so I pushed it to 6k. It looked fine at 6k, so I pushed it to 7.5k. It looked fine, so I pushed it to 8k. Oil lubricates better the longer it's been in service as long as the additive package is still there and there's no contamination (i.e. - gasoline) in it. My 2016 MX-5 has a 10k OCI and I'm waiting to hear back from the oil analysis company on what it looks like.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:20
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JohnGalt posted:this seems like a myth. newer engines have tighter tolerances and oils are optimized with better additivies. You cant straight faced tell me that both oil and engines have gotten better in the last 20 years, but oil life hasnt. Both are way better. I have a Toyota Highlander with a 3.5 liter v6 and engine oil is every 5k (for regular old dino oil) and Toyota/Lexus have been using this engine for years without a problem (my brother was a lexus mechanic for like 5 years). The transmission fluid doesn't even have a drat interval in the manual, unless you tow a lot, and then you change it every 120k. Again used for years by Lexus/Toyota and it's fine. Every aspect of a car dealership is a scam. Though the absolute worst part are the loving "service advisors" who don't know anything about how a car gets fixed yet somehow are the only one you are allowed to talk to about what's wrong with your car.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:23
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I do love to hear stories about dealerships purposefully damaging someone's credit or the outright fraud that happens on a regular basis. gently caress: double-post
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Jul 5, 2016 03:25
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What's the most egregious piece of unnecessary work you've seen done to a car? On the flipside, what is the dumbest thing that a customer has ever done or said to you?
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Jul 5, 2016 14:49
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fordham posted:I do love to hear stories about dealerships purposefully damaging someone's credit or the outright fraud that happens on a regular basis. Happens all the time. At the last dealer I was at if a customer wasted hours of time in sales, the salsa managers would run a hard credit check multiple times against the person and absolutely tank their credit for close to a year, ensuring they would have to get like a 30% apr somewhere else when they tried to buy a car. On the service side, techs are paid based on time booked, so a lot of one hour jobs turn into 5-6 hours of booked labor, meanings people pay $700 for something that should only be like $150.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:42
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MikeCrotch posted:What's the most egregious piece of unnecessary work you've seen done to a car? Most egregious are flushes to be honest, especially every 10k miles. Another ridiculous one is fuel injection service, which is dumping a $5 bottle of fuel additive into the gas tank and charging $170. Dumbest thing that usually happens are people way out of warranty with nothing ever done to the car yet will literally throw coffee in my face when I explain that no, it is not under warranty and the manufacturer will not cover it under good will. Or the guy who put his own brakes on backwards and wanted a refund on the parts, us to put new ones on free, and giving him $100 for the inconvenience because the pads didn't come with good instructions.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:45
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I called around for quotes for a trailer hitch and installation on my new car. Most places were quoting in the $200-300 range, the Mazda dealership quoted $1000. I asked them how they came up with that number and they said the hitch was $400 and it would be $600 for labor (6 hours at $100/hr). The hitch I wanted was actually $150 and almost everywhere else said it would take 30 mins to an hour tops (Uhaul did mine for $200 total, took them 30 minutes). Dealerships are a joke and they prey on people who don't know any better because for whatever reason many people think dealerships perform better work than independent shops. Similar to how people think brand names are automatically better than generic, I guess.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:15
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Fenarisk posted:Dumbest thing that usually happens are people way out of warranty with nothing ever done to the car yet will literally throw coffee in my face when I explain that no, it is not under warranty and the manufacturer will not cover it under good will. Or the guy who put his own brakes on backwards and wanted a refund on the parts, us to put new ones on free, and giving him $100 for the inconvenience because the pads didn't come with good instructions. Like, the pads facing the wrong way? How the gently caress do you put brakes on backwards?
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Jul 5, 2016 18:16
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Mind_Taker posted:Dealerships are a joke and they prey on people who don't know any better because for whatever reason many people think dealerships perform better work than independent shops. Similar to how people think brand names are automatically better than generic, I guess. My brother (Lexus mechanic, certified and everything) only ever knows how to replace parts until the problem goes away. He can read the codes from the computer but can't diagnose a drat thing. He apparently has no idea how anything actually works in a car. gently caress: double posted again
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Jul 5, 2016 18:19
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fordham posted:Like, the pads facing the wrong way? How the gently caress do you put brakes on backwards? This blew my mind too. I'm absolutely no expert mechanic but critical systems on cars tend to be designed so that things very clearly fit only the right way where you have try very hard to screw it up (friend said he knew someone that hooked his transmission cooling lines into where the engine coolant is supposed to go on the radiator even though... I mean, I've replaced a radiator on the very same model car and to this day I have no idea how he made it fit). Maybe I'm giving some people too much credit or I've never bought/worked on the "wrong" model car though. What percentage of those "27-point checks" that come free with every oil change actually gets done on a scale of 0-100? 
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Jul 6, 2016 00:06
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The Slaughter posted:I ussed to sell cars. Buying at the end of the year didn't really ensure any kind of better discount than any other time. Buying at the end of their quarter, maybe, at the end of the month definitely. The reason being we would often get retroactive promos like $150 per car rebate from the manufacturer if we broke 95 cars sold... well guess what, with 2 days left in the month sitting at 92 cars sold for the month, they're pretty incentivized to sell a car a few hundred bucks below invoice just to hit the bonus on everything else. However, as a consumer you have absolutely no visibility on any of this stuff, and it's their bonus, not yours. The Slaughter posted:But that's why deals get a little better at the end of the month, oftentimes. The best way to approach getting a good deal is to email maybe 5 days before the end of the month that you're looking to buy before the end of the month and price shopping every local dealer for a 2016 spigot XX w/ premium package and all weather package and i'm a big baller package, and have them email you out the door price quotes for that exact config. My (potentially wrong) guess would be that if I really want exact configuration XYZ, they're gonna look at me as if I just grew a third arm, then they'll have to order it for me and we wait a few weeks, and there'll be no option for a rebate whatsoever. Or is there?
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Jul 6, 2016 04:12
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seacat posted:What percentage of those "27-point checks" that come free with every oil change actually gets done on a scale of 0-100? Every single one because it only checks the stuff that makes money, most of the time. Brakes, flushes, belts and filters are high mark up. That and if we don't tell people tires are low or leaking or whatever it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Seconding to buy a car at the end of the month, it could mean the difference between a salesman being able to make his mortgage or eating ramen for the next month. I'll make a post soon about the worst part of the business: surveys. Fun little tidbit, if you mark something low the adviser had no part in (snacks weren't gluten free, toilet paper was low, etc), he could potentially be losing 50% of his pay for the entire month! I've seen guys go from a $4000 check for the month to sub $2000 in the last 48 hours because the car was vacuumed but wheel shine wasn't used by the porters. Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 22:11
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Fenarisk posted:I'll make a post soon about the worst part of the business: surveys. Fun little tidbit, if you mark something low the adviser had no part in (snacks weren't gluten free, toilet paper was low, etc), he could potentially be losing 50% of his pay for the entire month! I've seen guys go from a $4000 check for the month to sub $2000 in the last 48 hours because the car was vacuumed but wheel shine wasn't used by the porters. Last time we bought a car, the only survey was ten pages long or so and asked us to fill out our income etc., which I wasn't comfortable with. I'd love to have given the salesman a good review, even though he was wrong about the fuel type and had me accelerate on a car that wasn't broken in yet. But we never got a chance to review him.
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Jul 6, 2016 23:17
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Follow up to my oil change:quote:With this being the factory fill, it's not shocking to find high metals and silicon in the oil. The metals are from the new parts making elbow room and silicon is from harmless sealers used during assembly. It usually takes a few oil changes to wash this stuff out, especially if you stick with longer intervals like this. As long as things start looking more like universal averages, which are based on about 6,900 miles of oil use, we won't have anything to complain about. The TBN was strong at 3.1 since 1.0 or less is low. You could try 12,000 miles next. Check back for progress. So Mazda recommends 7500 or 10000 mile oil change intervals, and everything looks great when I changed it at 10k.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:19
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fordham posted:Like, the pads facing the wrong way? How the gently caress do you put brakes on backwards? It's possible to reverse the leading and trailing shoe if the vehicle uses drum brakes. fordham posted:My brother (Lexus mechanic, certified and everything) only ever knows how to replace parts until the problem goes away. He can read the codes from the computer but can't diagnose a drat thing. He apparently has no idea how anything actually works in a car. I would imagine many people smart enough to properly diagnose vehicles would choose not to be a consumer vehicle mechanic. puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 22:38
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Extra posted:I would imagine many people smart enough to properly diagnose vehicles would choose not to be a consumer vehicle mechanic. I don't doubt it. Just backing up that dealer mechanics may actually be a worse place to go than a local shop with some older guys who've been fixing cars for 30+ years, especially when factoring in the cost difference.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:44
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flavor posted:My (potentially wrong) guess would be that if I really want exact configuration XYZ, they're gonna look at me as if I just grew a third arm, then they'll have to order it for me and we wait a few weeks, and there'll be no option for a rebate whatsoever. Or is there? I've never come across a car with an exact configuration I was looking for. They'll end up calling some of their other lots to see if there's anything closer to what you want than they have. If you have the balls to negotiate to potentially save thousands, get quotes from other dealerships with what you're looking for, then you can pick one and you'll be able to negotiate a lower price when you say you're willing to call the other place to confirm the quote and go over there. The lot you're at will always say it's impossible they'll sell you that vehicle for that price. I always just say, "worst case they won't but maybe I'll find something else I like better over there". They'll probably let you leave but if you give them your cell number on the way out, they'll usually call you on your way over to the other lot to get you to come back and work on the price some more. They know once you get there you probably won't ever be coming back, so if they need to make a sale, they won't let you get to the other place.
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Jul 11, 2016 16:54
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^^^ The best thing for buying a new car is always spending at least a half hour researching prices and information beforehand. If you come in prepared and educated you have a LOT more wiggle room for price. fordham posted:I don't doubt it. Just backing up that dealer mechanics may actually be a worse place to go than a local shop with some older guys who've been fixing cars for 30+ years, especially when factoring in the cost difference. To be fair there's usually like 1-2 master techs at dealers who have been doing it for a long, long time, but nowadays they normally get the big electrical or engine/transmission jobs so things don't get hosed up. This sucks because then they don't really make as much money as the idiot kids who can pound out the easy and profitable maintenance. Then again the business has been getting shittier every year for the last 10 years, and in another 10 all those guys who have had enough will be retiring or just done with the poo poo so it'll be ten times worse.
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Jul 11, 2016 18:42
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chemosh6969 posted:I've never come across a car with an exact configuration I was looking for. This is exactly what I'm talking about, and hardly anyone seems to get it (hence my "growing a third arm" analogy): - I want an exact configuration. - I'm fully aware that if a car has, say, 10 yes/no selectable options, that there will be 1024 possible combinations and nobody, not even the combination of all dealerships in the country will have all of those. - It's also going to be very unlikely that anyone will have the exact configuration that I'm looking for. - Therefore I'm prepared to have the dealership order that configuration from the manufacturer. Ideally I would order this from the manufacturer directly, but that's probably not possible. - I don't care too much about rebates etc., I care about getting that configuration. - I don't care if it takes 8-12 weeks according to the manufacturer's website to get that. What I did last time is that I compromised on one feature and otherwise got exactly what I wanted. Anyway, what would be the best course of action for someone who stubbornly wants an exact configuration?
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Jul 11, 2016 19:35
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Do as described above (hit all the dealers in your area with your request, play them off each other until you get the lowest price). You won't get the lowest possible price but you'll get the lowest price you can get for your needs.
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Jul 11, 2016 19:56
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Thwomp posted:Do as described above (hit all the dealers in your area with your request, play them off each other until you get the lowest price). Alright, thanks!
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Jul 11, 2016 20:13
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Fenarisk posted:^^^ Also companies performing recalls WILL poach master techs like crazy, a client of mine recently lost dozens of master/senior techs across a couple states due to a recent recall, I believe it was Ford, but I could be mistaken.
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Jul 11, 2016 20:20
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flavor posted:This is exactly what I'm talking about, and hardly anyone seems to get it (hence my "growing a third arm" analogy): Isn't some of this due to bundling? Like sure you want heated seats but not alloy wheels, but you can't get one without the other because we know people will be willing to pay for both if they only want one.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:05
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junidog posted:Isn't some of this due to bundling? Like sure you want heated seats but not alloy wheels, but you can't get one without the other because we know people will be willing to pay for both if they only want one. Right, it's at the same time more complex and simpler than I phrased it, because not all possible combinations of features make much sense. I didn't want to write a dissertation about it, but yeah, certain things are parts of packages. Then you have tiers like I don't know, the Yugo L, the Yugo X and the Yugo XTL (making these up), which then all have different options and packages. What I'm basically looking for and will probably insist on next time is that I want, say, the Yugo X (haha) with all options available for it. And that wasn't available anywhere. I had to drop one feature that wasn't important for me, so I'm by no means disappointed, but next time I'll have no issues if it means I'll have to wait 2-3 months for delivery.
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Jul 11, 2016 23:32
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flavor posted:Anyway, what would be the best course of action for someone who stubbornly wants an exact configuration?
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Jul 12, 2016 02:59
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I've taken my car to Sears auto center a few times in the past, and I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid or if I really shouldn't go back. My dad changed my battery a couple years ago, and whenever he visits he looks at my car because he's dadly. He swears that the battery in my car is not the same battery he put in. Nobody has changed my battery since then, but I have been to the auto shop a few times. Is there any reason they would steal a newer battery and replace it with an inferior brand? Also, I had my brake pads, calipers, and wheel bearings replaced last fall, but I think something was installed wrong because there's lots of noise coming from my brakes, like the pads are grinding. At the end of this month I have to take my car to the dealership to get my airbag replaced per the recall, and I want them to look at my brakes just to see if there's anything obviously wrong. Am I going to get horribly ripped off, or is there some way I can prepare myself? A couple general questions... What is your opinion of chain auto shops? If a person is brand-loyal but there's only one dealership in their region, would it be better to commute to a large city where there are more dealerships to get a better deal, or does it not make much of a difference?
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Jul 12, 2016 05:19
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photomikey posted:E-mail negotiating was made for this kind of thing. In your e-mail be brief, be clear, and be specific. Never ever mention that price is not your #1 concern. (It doesn't have to be your #1 concern, but never mention it.) Right, thanks, I'm just mentioning it here. (When buying a Yugo, there are bigger concerns :P.)
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Jul 12, 2016 05:35
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Koivunen posted:A couple general questions... What is your opinion of chain auto shops? If a person is brand-loyal but there's only one dealership in their region, would it be better to commute to a large city where there are more dealerships to get a better deal, or does it not make much of a difference? Brakes are a thing that can go from a $100 fix to a $500 fix by waiting a couple of weeks. Have them looked at immediately. Yelp and Google are the best thing that's happened to auto repair since the invention of the wrench. In my experience chains vary by general manager, the general managers don't last long. You might get a couple of good ones in a row and as soon as you start to trust a place they'll be wanting to replace your blinker fluid. Independent places are either good or bad, and tend to stay. Find a place near you (or near your work) with a good Yelp review (and a good Google review) and try them out for the brakes thing. You should get a gut feel if they are yanking you around.
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Jul 12, 2016 06:30
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Koivunen posted:My dad changed my battery a couple years ago, and whenever he visits he looks at my car because he's dadly. He swears that the battery in my car is not the same battery he put in. Nobody has changed my battery since then, but I have been to the auto shop a few times. Is there any reason they would steal a newer battery and replace it with an inferior brand? I doubt anyone stole your battery, but it's possible I guess. There should be a date somewhere on it so you can check yourself if it's the correct age. Some brake pads can be very loud (especially cheap aftermarkets) and that's just how they are. Does the car stop properly, especially if you are pressing hard on the pedal? If so and they just make a consistent noise they are probably fine and just noisy pads. I usually buy OEM pads (and install myself) as they tend to be quiet and still have good performance, even if they cost a bit more. There are dealers online who sell OEM parts for pretty reasonable prices. Chain auto shops can be good or bad. They at least tend to have consistent (probably high) prices for the same services. Firestone tends to be outrageously expensive. I got quoted $500 for the exact same service I got at another chain shop (I think a speedy) for $200. They added in absurd amounts of labor (several hours) to do the struts on an old Honda I had.
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Jul 12, 2016 15:49
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photomikey posted:Brakes are a thing that can go from a $100 fix to a $500 fix by waiting a couple of weeks. Have them looked at immediately. Could the brake noise be from not going easy on them after a fresh install?
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Jul 12, 2016 15:54
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chemosh6969 posted:Could the brake noise be from not going easy on them after a fresh install? Not in my (albeit relatively small) experience. Burnishing the brakes after install helps mate the pads and the rotors so you get maximum stopping power right off the bat. They usually only get noisy in the last 10%-20% of material (to tell you they are almost gone).
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Jul 12, 2016 16:12
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You have to bed in the pads on the rotors, like you should never "go easy" on brakes because you're putting unnecessary heat over a long period of time when you brake. Someone who casually brushes the brakes to cruise to a stop over a quarter of a mile will have more wear than someone who brakes within 300 feet of a stop light.
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Jul 13, 2016 17:53
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