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BetterToRuleInHell
Jul 2, 2007

Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop

Trabisnikof posted:

How was it kept hidden if we all knew about it pretty much right after it happened?

It would help you sound reasonable if you didn't make poo poo up.

As I explained earlier, press was prohibited from pictures or filming.

Lemming posted:

It looks bad the same way that having a hair on your shirt looks bad. It doesn't matter and nobody cares.

Again, why do you excuse it?

It's either 'This is not bad you're dumb' or 'ok it's bad BUT...'

gently caress that poo poo man, admitting without approval doesn't bleed you dry of your liberal blood. Clinton isn't going to personally kick you out of the democratic party.

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Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

As I explained earlier, press was prohibited from pictures or filming.


Again, why do you excuse it?

It's either 'This is not bad you're dumb' or 'ok it's bad BUT...'

gently caress that poo poo man, admitting without approval doesn't bleed you dry of your liberal blood. Clinton isn't going to personally kick you out of the democratic party.

Not turning something into a photo op doesn't make it a secret meeting and if you weren't concern trolling you'd realize that.


Next you'll be posting about the "secret meetings" in the senate bathroom, why won't they let reporters photography in there if they have nothing to hide!

Jarmak
Jan 24, 2005

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

The reporter who initially discovered the meeting was told no filming or pictures. Information being spread doesn't negate the fact that it was initially tried to kept secret.

I'm arguing with a loving fence post here. There's no positives to what they did. If they hadn't have done this there would've been something else republicans would have harped on. This entire discussion could have been avoided easily if Bill had just went on his way. There's no goddamn hidden conspiracy that I'm trying to argue here.

I'm just trying to get it through your head that maybe, just loving maybe it looks bad. LOOKS. That's it.

A meeting that everyone knows about is not "secret" because it's not filmed.


It looks bad to morons like you, I'm sick of the post-factual nonsense world where when something not-bad happens and idiots cry about it the analysis is "well that was a dumb move because it looks bad, look at all the idiots who say so"

You know what's dumb and bad and should be tsk tsked? The idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

Geostomp posted:

If it has any hope of destroying those check cashing scammers that prey on poor areas, that alone would be enough reason to demand it.

Last time it was proposed, check cashiers and payday loan places lobbied heavily against it.

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

No Butt Stuff posted:

Well, when she had demonstrably different ideas prior to their engagements, I think it's fair. I don't think it's fair that he'd get all the credit for all the ideas, but you can't deny his impact on some of it.

Also, at this point I view Hillary as a woman the same way that OJ documentary portrayed OJ as black. It's a convenience thing.

They weren't really that different though. In fact some of the things she is said to have moved "left" on she had the same positions even in 2008.

That was always my fear of Bernie getting in the race. That people would see Hillary's positions as not ones she really holds, but one she proposed because of Sanders. Even though the vast majority of them are consistent with her 2008 positions, or positions she stated before he got in the race.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

As I explained earlier, press was prohibited from pictures or filming.


Again, why do you excuse it?

It's either 'This is not bad you're dumb' or 'ok it's bad BUT...'

gently caress that poo poo man, admitting without approval doesn't bleed you dry of your liberal blood. Clinton isn't going to personally kick you out of the democratic party.

so really you're just mad that people don't agree with you

thanks for this amazing contribution

i dont really give a poo poo that bill met with AG lynch but it's funny because it's triggering the hell out of the alt-right

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

No Butt Stuff posted:

Well, when she had demonstrably different ideas prior to their engagements, I think it's fair. I don't think it's fair that he'd get all the credit for all the ideas, but you can't deny his impact on some of it.

Most of it they've agreed on since before he showed any hint of success in challenging her. So no, I think you actually can deny his impact on much of it.

quote:

Also, at this point I view Hillary as a woman the same way that OJ documentary portrayed OJ as black. It's a convenience thing.

Tell us more about how Hillary isn't sufficiently genuine, I've never heard this before.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

I'm just glad Sanders got Clinton to finally move to the left and support improving children's access to healthcare. :v:



Edit: and Sanders getting Clinton to commit to being pro-choice is another huge get for him.

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

Kalman posted:

Most of it they've agreed on since before he showed any hint of success in challenging her. So no, I think you actually can deny his impact on much of it.


Tell us more about how Hillary isn't sufficiently genuine, I've never heard this before.


Much not all, which is what I was attempting to say, but didn't really, I guess.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the OJ documentary I'm referring to. The idea was the he transcended race, and then it was utilized by other people (and to a small extent, himself) as a type of leverage in his trial, but that for the most part he was thought of outside of the context of race, which was a huge thing.

But yeah, I'm totally just being a dick about Hillary not being genuine.

Goatman Sacks
Apr 4, 2011

by FactsAreUseless

Trabisnikof posted:

I'm just glad Sanders got Clinton to finally move to the left and support improving children's access to healthcare. :v:

I assume this is a reference to SCHIP, which she was instrumental in getting through congress, while Bernie was renaming post offices and being more partisan than Ted Cruz?

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Goatman Sacks posted:

I assume this is a reference to SCHIP, which she was instrumental in getting through congress, while Bernie was renaming post offices and being more partisan than Ted Cruz?

It's just a knock at people giving Sanders credit for things Clinton has always supported.


As always, I'm not calling Sanders bad names dont worry, Maple Grandpa is double plus good.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Goatman Sacks posted:

I assume this is a reference to SCHIP, which she was instrumental in getting through congress, while Bernie was renaming post offices and being more partisan than Ted Cruz?

Or her entire legal career.

negromancer
Aug 20, 2014

by FactsAreUseless

Boon posted:

^^^
Oh come the gently caress on. It's like you have a google alert for the term "Bernie Bros" and every iteration therein and then feel the need to rush to the thread to be contrarian.


If you want to see the effect it has on stupid people, check out the Daily Show segment last night of Jessica Williams last piece where she interviews Bernie supporters who are voting Trump. It's.... wow.

E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lASt7GYdYx0

Someone explain to me why we shouldn't have voting tests again? Because I'm reminded of that quote (paraphrasing) "the biggest argument against democracy is 5 minutes with the average voter."

We should just be ruled by specialized committees and call it a day.

BetterToRuleInHell
Jul 2, 2007

Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop

Popular Thug Drink posted:

so really you're just mad that people don't agree with you

thanks for this amazing contribution

i dont really give a poo poo that bill met with AG lynch but it's funny because it's triggering the hell out of the alt-right

I was, but then your avatar perked me back up :)

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

Trabisnikof posted:

It's just a knock at people giving Sanders credit for things Clinton has always supported.


As always, I'm not calling Sanders bad names Jesus Christ chill out.



I think that a lot of posters seem to believe that if you say something sort of implicating that either Bernie or Hillary did a good thing, then you must be a complete fanatic for them and you should be shouted down. No shades of gray or anything possible here.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

No Butt Stuff posted:

Much not all, which is what I was attempting to say, but didn't really, I guess.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the OJ documentary I'm referring to. The idea was the he transcended race, and then it was utilized by other people (and to a small extent, himself) as a type of leverage in his trial, but that for the most part he was thought of outside of the context of race, which was a huge thing.

But yeah, I'm totally just being a dick about Hillary not being genuine.

"It's a convenience thing." isn't a "she transcends gender". It's pretty plainly "she only uses the woman thing when it's convenient" which is a little inaccurate.

(Besides, we have perfectly good evidence that Sanders is a dick to women when he wants their position stemming back thirty years all the way up to trying to take HELP from Murray despite having significantly less seniority than her.)

No Butt Stuff
Jun 10, 2004

Kalman posted:

"It's a convenience thing." isn't a "she transcends gender". It's pretty plainly "she only uses the woman thing when it's convenient" which is a little inaccurate.
It was probably poor wording on my part? The idea I'm trying to convey is that a lot of people are leaning on it pretty hard, when what I perceive is that for most of her career, she's been looked at as a capable politician and lawyer, not as a capable politician and a lawyer "for a woman."

I'm doing a poor job explaining this, I think.

Kalman posted:

(Besides, we have perfectly good evidence that Sanders is a dick to women when he wants their position stemming back thirty years all the way up to trying to take HELP from Murray despite having significantly less seniority than her.)

I had no idea about this, but I'm not necessarily surprised.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

gfsincere posted:

Someone explain to me why we shouldn't have voting tests again? Because I'm reminded of that quote (paraphrasing) "the biggest argument against democracy is 5 minutes with the average voter."

We should just be ruled by specialized committees and call it a day.

Sounds like Choose Your Own Adventure Time:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/voting_literacy.html

Business Gorillas
Mar 11, 2009

:harambe:



gfsincere posted:

Someone explain to me why we shouldn't have voting tests again? Because I'm reminded of that quote (paraphrasing) "the biggest argument against democracy is 5 minutes with the average voter."

We should just be ruled by specialized committees and call it a day.

Why take all that time and money setting up tests when we could just add a small tax for voting. To have a vote you should need to have some skin in the game, afterall.

theflyingorc
Jun 28, 2008

ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS
Young Orc

Business Gorillas posted:

Why take all that time and money setting up tests when we could just add a small tax for voting. To have a vote you should need to have some skin in the game, afterall.

I'm for land ownership, myself

now, let me tell you my plan to make sure that we count some people differently in the census.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

theblackw0lf posted:

You're right. And it's frustrating how few people know that.

It's easy when you think Hilldawg is Literally Hitler and Literally George Bush combined.

Business Gorillas
Mar 11, 2009

:harambe:



Oh I see we're going back into the Sanders is a secret racist/sexist derail again. Good luck, everyone!

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
I'm glad that voting test chat has come around again.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Business Gorillas posted:

Oh I see we're going back into the Sanders is a secret racist/sexist derail again. Good luck, everyone!

Lolol no one said anything like that. Barely anyone even mentioned Sanders....


You're so easily triggered it is pretty amazing.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

gfsincere posted:

Someone explain to me why we shouldn't have voting tests again? Because I'm reminded of that quote (paraphrasing) "the biggest argument against democracy is 5 minutes with the average voter."

We should just be ruled by specialized committees and call it a day.

Hey, thanks for reminding me of something I wanted to post!

So, remember the article How American Politics Became So Insane, and how it seemed pretty darn good?

I certainly thought it was well-thought out (except that it tried to do the 'both sides are bad' bullshit angle instead of just admitting the Republicans are the problem) but Taibbi has a rebuttal that's pretty darn good!

In Response to Trump, Another Dangerous Movement Appears

Only posting first few paragraphs that don't get into the meat of the issue but tell you where he's going with it:

quote:

The "too much democracy" train rolls on.

Last week's Brexit vote prompted pundits and social media mavens to wonder aloud if allowing dumb people to vote is a good thing.

Now, the cover story in The Atlantic magazine features the most aggressive offering yet in an alarming series of intellectual-class jeremiads against the dangers of democracy.

In "How American Politics Went Insane," Brookings Institute Fellow Jonathan Rauch spends many thousands of words arguing for the reinvigoration of political machines, as a means of keeping the ape-citizen further from power.

theflyingorc
Jun 28, 2008

ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS
Young Orc

Business Gorillas posted:

Oh I see we're going back into the Sanders is a secret racist/sexist derail again. Good luck, everyone!

You are completely insane on any issues related to Bernie Sanders. Nobody was doing anything of the sort

Business Gorillas
Mar 11, 2009

:harambe:



Trabisnikof posted:

Lolol no one said anything like that. Barely anyone even mentioned Sanders....


You're so easily triggered it is pretty amazing.

quote:

(Besides, we have perfectly good evidence that Sanders is a dick to women when he wants their position stemming back thirty years all the way up to trying to take HELP from Murray despite having significantly less seniority than her.)
:shrug:

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005


Yeah, that's not calling Sanders secret racist/sexist, but good try.





Also are you denying the facts of that situation or do you think Sanders deserved HELP more? If so, why?

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich

gfsincere posted:

We should just be ruled by specialized committees and call it a day.

Well, we could always institute some sort of group dedicated to a single focus, like some sort of college of individuals. Focused strictly on electoral issues.

Boon fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jul 1, 2016

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
It's the same people concern trolling every single loving time. Stop responding to them as if they actually want to talk in good faith.

Business Gorillas
Mar 11, 2009

:harambe:



Trabisnikof posted:

Yeah, that's not calling Sanders secret racist/sexist, but good try.





Also are you denying the facts of that situation or do you think Sanders deserved HELP more? If so, why?

I'm tired of getting dumpstered because of this thread so I'll be passing on this. Goon Bless and Goon Luck

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

BetterToRuleInHell
Jul 2, 2007

Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop
^^^^^ Never give up, never surrender ^^^^^

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It's the same people concern trolling every single loving time. Stop responding to them as if they actually want to talk in good faith.

No discussions in USPol

Circle up and grab the dick to your right and start jerking

BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 1, 2016

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It's the same people concern trolling every single loving time. Stop responding to them as if they actually want to talk in good faith.

Last I checked he didn't have an anime avatar. Makes you think.

Edit: Remember when you were a Sanders supporter? those were the days of low information.

Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 1, 2016

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Business Gorillas posted:

I'm tired of getting dumpstered because of this thread so I'll be passing on this. Goon Bless and Goon Luck

Lol didn't realize asking you what your opinion on Sander's attempt to get the HELP chair was "dumpstering" but somehow I think your hiatus won't last long.

BetterToRuleInHell
Jul 2, 2007

Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop

Trabisnikof posted:

Lol didn't realize asking you what your opinion on Sander's attempt to get the HELP chair was "dumpstering" but somehow I think your hiatus won't last long.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

It's the same people concern trolling every single loving time. Stop responding to them as if they actually want to talk in good faith.

USPol goons like throwing around the label concern trolling like GBS goons do with SJW

e: word filter bests me

botany
Apr 27, 2013

by Lowtax

Jarmak posted:

A meeting that everyone knows about is not "secret" because it's not filmed.


It looks bad to morons like you, I'm sick of the post-factual nonsense world where when something not-bad happens and idiots cry about it the analysis is "well that was a dumb move because it looks bad, look at all the idiots who say so"

You know what's dumb and bad and should be tsk tsked? The idiots who don't know what they're talking about.

I mean, you might be sick of it, but that's the world we live in. You're completely correct of course that the meeting is uninteresting, but Better is correct that it's bad optics. Optics are not about substance, they're about the climate of political commentary. Saying "this sucks" (which I agree with) doesn't change that it's still true.

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013

by sebmojo
Remember Dubya's "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" photo op? What is the official narrative on that? I watched it when it was broadcast originally, Bush's harness-crotch-bulge and all, and he was celebrating the "end of all major combat operations in Iraq." Some (between 2 and 6?) months ago, a non-CNN non-Fox news television media outlet tried saying it was the carrier's mission that had been accomplished, which is what the administration tried saying immediately in the aftermath when it looked loving stupid and terrible for them and the media at the time wasn't buying it, even as they went along with the "Saddam must pay for his crimes, we will liberate Iraq!" official line.

Are we really so far beyond 1984?

BetterToRuleInHell
Jul 2, 2007

Touch my mask top
Get the chop chop
^^^^^ That media outlet was correct, it wasn't bad optics, anybody mentioning or mocking was a idiot, Bush didn't deserve the criticism ^^^^^


botany posted:

I mean, you might be sick of it, but that's the world we live in. You're completely correct of course that the meeting is uninteresting, but Better is correct that it's bad optics. Optics are not about substance, they're about the climate of political commentary. Saying "this sucks" (which I agree with) doesn't change that it's still true.

No, don't get sucked into this, lest you discover you've been a dumb concern troll hater this entire time.

BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 1, 2016

MC Nietzche
Oct 26, 2004

by exmarx

botany posted:

I mean, you might be sick of it, but that's the world we live in. You're completely correct of course that the meeting is uninteresting, but Better is correct that it's bad optics. Optics are not about substance, they're about the climate of political commentary. Saying "this sucks" (which I agree with) doesn't change that it's still true.

That may be true but Bill Clinton is a master at politics. That pretty much leaves us with two interpretations. Either he forgot how the optics would look or he's signalling that Hillary isn't concerned at all about the FBI probe. My guess would be the second. Now Lynch has committed to following what the FBI recommends and everyone who knows jack all about the email thing knows the FBI is going to say there are no grounds for an indictment.

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Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Tubgoat posted:

Remember Dubya's "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" photo op? What is the official narrative on that? I watched it when it was broadcast originally, Bush's harness-crotch-bulge and all, and he was celebrating the "end of all major combat operations in Iraq." Some (between 2 and 6?) months ago, a non-CNN non-Fox news television media outlet tried saying it was the carrier's mission that had been accomplished, which is what the administration tried saying immediately in the aftermath when it looked loving stupid and terrible for them and the media at the time wasn't buying it, even as they went along with the "Saddam must pay for his crimes, we will liberate Iraq!" official line.

Are we really so far beyond 1984?

The official line is that it was for the ship, the WH had no idea the banner would be there, and their advance team didn't want to ruin the fun and have it taken down.

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