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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfOsjVT8mlU    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcJEZYPe6IE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ydvexj9d8 Kinu Nishimura fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Aug 18, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 09:45
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alcharagia posted:This is a thread where you can talk about [spoilers] for [Zero Time Dilemma.] wait phi is her own adoptive mom? I missed that part, that's amazing. The journey that stupid brooch must have taken - I wonder where it came from first, if it's going from young phi to diania to old phi to young phi to diana.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:52
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Wolpertinger posted:wait phi is her own adoptive mom? I missed that part, that's amazing. The journey that stupid brooch must have taken - I wonder where it came from first, if it's going from young phi to diania to old phi to young phi to diana. dang the phi from 1904 who stays behind after the transporter is used continues to be a researcher all the way up until 2004 and adopts herself when she arrives from 1904. didn't realise that the brooch doesn't appear to have any actual origin.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:55
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Delta killing Gab as a final gently caress you in the self destruct time line made me laugh because of how cartoonishly evil it was.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:04
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Delta killing Gab as a final gently caress you in the self destruct time line made me laugh because of how cartoonishly evil it was. The guy in the thread who suggested it was to make it so the 9 there had absolutely nothing holding them back from SHIFTing out had the most plausible theory I can think of for that. A couple of the people there wouldn't want to leave the dog to die.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:09
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I for one love that after two games of a non-Zero crazy person antagonist and Zero being actually kind of sympathetic, now we straight up have a 124-year-old Bond villain with the power to Mind Hack
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Jul 1, 2016 10:12
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It's really weird how everyone just kind of glosses over the fact that Mira is an emotionless serial killer once they all get memories of the other timelines.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:14
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It's really weird how everyone just kind of glosses over the fact that Mira is an emotionless serial killer once they all get memories of the other timelines. yep also her claim of emotionless is really weird. she just seems a) a bit number than most other characters and b) to be a sociopath. She still gets shocked, mad, wants to live etc. And touch hearts. she's like sylar but with hearts
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Jul 1, 2016 10:20
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Also the fact that the entire "?" ending part of VLR basically never got re-addressed at all. I know it's a nod to e17 with Blick Winkel and all that but I expected it to actually come up at some point here.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:21
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Well, if Mira was so unchecked that she was legit able to just go out and murder people for 17 years, she probably never got any, like, help or even a proper diagnosis, so coming to her own conclusions, I don't think "I don't feel emotions" is a particular stretch to arrive at
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Jul 1, 2016 10:22
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I worry for Sean, but he's a strong boy who got through a lot of nasty situations, so I'm sure that his family being a pile of nutcases and Carlos won't hurt him too bad.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:27
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Also the fact that the entire "?" ending part of VLR basically never got re-addressed at all. More specifically VLR's ending also claims that Kyle went back to Dcom separately from ?. It did seem possible for a while that Sean was hosting him somehow; that could potentially explain why Sean 729 seems to be conscious when none of the other Sean units are. Nothing was even confirmed, though. There was also nothing specific about Akane's plan to get Clover and Alice back from the future. The Transporter seems like the most likely option for this, and it would be entirely in character for Akane to knock them both out, copy them to the past then kill the originals in their sleep. The 20th century researchers must be completely bemused at the array of random people that keep climbing out of their output pods. The bottom line is that Uchikoshi made a lot of promises in interviews that "this question will be answered in the third game", and I guess there just wasn't enough room to hold them all.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:27
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I guess we just have to wait for the post mortum Q&A where he just kinda shrugs and goes "well I forgot about that, but I guess <X> is the reason"
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Jul 1, 2016 10:29
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VLR still the best game in the series.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:32
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Something I really disliked about this, even though I absolutely loved it, was Phi, Sigma, and Akane, were far too emotional. Phi and Sigma both came back from the future, and didn't get amnesiad about their shifter powers so it's just really weird to me that they get so worked up over some of the choices. But that wouldn't be terribly entertaining I suppose. Akane going psycho in some paths just seemed odd considering all the poo poo she pulled. Also the comment Delta made telling Akane to wear the Free The Soul robe and attend the meeting felt completely pointless, maybe it's to patch up something mentioned in VLR that I forgot, or literally just to show the existence of the robe that Mira used in that one timeline to kill D team.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:32
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akane is wearing free the soul robes in the last scene of VLR (in the past) and that's it, that's all it explains.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:34
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alcharagia posted:akane is wearing free the soul robes in the last scene of VLR (in the past) and that's it, that's all it explains. Oh right. I remember that now.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:34
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Looking back on the series I don't actually have nearly as many unanswered questions as I thought. Aside from Kyle and Clover/Alice/All-Ice you've got "What happened to X after 999?", to which the answer is usually "helping Crash Keys", and "Why did Free the Soul do X?", to which the answer is usually "because Delta felt like it". I can't think of any others that bother me right now?
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Jul 1, 2016 10:36
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I'm glad that this game confirms that robopeople can move around outside of where their consciousness is contained via SATELLITE, because that means Luna can leave and not be stuck with Akane "gently caress You" Kurashiki and Oldma. Maybe move down the street from Tenmyouji and Quark. Bring awkward brephew Kyle along. The new hit post-apoc slice of life anime.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:39
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Something I really disliked about this, even though I absolutely loved it, was Phi, Sigma, and Akane, were far too emotional. Phi and Sigma both came back from the future, and didn't get amnesiad about their shifter powers so it's just really weird to me that they get so worked up over some of the choices. But that wouldn't be terribly entertaining I suppose. I think Akane going psycho was basically to show how attached she was to Junpei even though she's a conniving mastermind also. Like the AB game ending where she brains Carlos, I thought that was amazing, and totally made me think about how much she must've thought about Junpei all those years if that was the reaction she was immediately going to flip to. Do you have to have somewhere in mind to SHIFT to to use those powers? Cos I think part of the reason for the amnesia drugs was to cut down on the alternate histories they could jump to. I really liked that SHIFTing had a visual effect added this time, but it kinda looked like a persona power. lmao
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Jul 1, 2016 10:41
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I was under the assumption that SHIFTing was automatic, considering that when Sigma explains it he talks about how he would find himself in situations where he was about to die only to wake up somewhere else, not sure why or how it happened. But it also seems to be able to be directed? Honestly the whole "and uh..if you're near SHIFTers you also shift!" stuff felt like Uchikoshi wrote himself into a corner with having Eric and Mira not be SHIFTers but didn't want to just leave them stuck there.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:43
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Old man Carlos shows up as the sitcom nemesis because Junpei can't stand that fucker, he's in his 70's and he's still so chiseled, proud, and American.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:45
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I was under the assumption that SHIFTing was automatic, considering that when Sigma explains it he talks about how he would find himself in situations where he was about to die only to wake up somewhere else, not sure why or how it happened. But it also seems to be able to be directed? i dunno why because gently caress both eric and mira i get that eric had a loving shithouse life (because of mira, haha) but seriously that guy had a shotgun in my face for like 60% of the game /edit actually you did remind me that if C team gets executed both Sigma tells Phi to get ready to jump before their heads explode and Di's just like wut Jintor fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 10:47
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Yeah, I could never bring myself to care about Mira or Eric in the slightest. They basically made up a team that was two-thirds Dios; if it weren't for Sean I would probably have just blown all of Q team's heads off and ignored them for the rest of the game.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:54
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Sean's a sweet boy.
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Jul 1, 2016 10:58
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now that i think about it uchikoshi was asking about the ancient aliens guy on twitter like two or three weeks ago
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Jul 1, 2016 11:01
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NRVNQSR posted:Yeah, I could never bring myself to care about Mira or Eric in the slightest. They basically made up a team that was two-thirds Dios; if it weren't for Sean I would probably have just blown all of Q team's heads off and ignored them for the rest of the game. I believe this was entirely intentional, using Q as a sympathetic protagonist in a team of batshit alienating and abusive parental figures.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:23
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The thing that confused me most while playing was the VLR canon ending because initially it appeared that Akane and Junpei were dead. I had all kinds of theories about why Sigma assumed this was that timeline. For a long while I was suspicious that this wasn't even really Akane and Junpei because Akane says in VLR that she wasn't there and Junpei knows nothing about it. But no it's just transportalizing. I assume Akane told Sigma at some point that in the VLR timeline she and Junpei would appear to be dead but don't worry they're fine. And then she drugs Junpei and lies to everyone because gently caress you
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Jul 1, 2016 13:14
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Also when the Transportalizer was first revealed I was also suspicious and suspected some elaborate Zero trickery but no They're Out There
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Jul 1, 2016 13:18
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NRVNQSR posted:Looking back on the series I don't actually have nearly as many unanswered questions as I thought. Aside from Kyle and Clover/Alice/All-Ice you've got "What happened to X after 999?", to which the answer is usually "helping Crash Keys", and "Why did Free the Soul do X?", to which the answer is usually "because Delta felt like it". I can't think of any others that bother me right now? The thing that bothers me the most is that for a man who was so obsessed with the death of his weird adoptive brother that he created an army of clones of him over a hundred years after his death, he sure as hell doesn't seem to care about him in the slightest and like is very flippantly dismissive when someone brings him up. NRVNQSR posted:Yeah, I could never bring myself to care about Mira or Eric in the slightest. They basically made up a team that was two-thirds Dios; if it weren't for Sean I would probably have just blown all of Q team's heads off and ignored them for the rest of the game. Dio was at least a funny/interesting/weird character. Like come on, his cover story was that he was a circus ringleader. That's goofy as gently caress. Regy Rusty posted:Also when the Transportalizer was first revealed I was also suspicious and suspected some elaborate Zero trickery but no They're Out There I was honestly surprised by how much the whole alien technology out of nowhere thing didn't bother me. On paper it's the kind of plot device that would piss me off but it was just ridiculous enough that I was ok with it. The big issue with it is that it all but tells you who Delta is, so when it's revealed later it makes it kind of fall flat. alcharagia posted:I for one love that after two games of a non-Zero crazy person antagonist and Zero being actually kind of sympathetic, now we straight up have a 124-year-old Bond villain with the power to Mind Hack Don't forget his weird Evil Eyes he has for *reasons* Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 13:22
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man i wonder what old phi thought about her brother
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Jul 1, 2016 13:30
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Regy Rusty posted:The thing that confused me most while playing was the VLR canon ending because initially it appeared that Akane and Junpei were dead. I had all kinds of theories about why Sigma assumed this was that timeline. For a long while I was suspicious that this wasn't even really Akane and Junpei because Akane says in VLR that she wasn't there and Junpei knows nothing about it. I had the same reaction and loving freaked out when Akane and Junpei got to that timeline and I realized what was going on.
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Jul 1, 2016 13:39
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So for those who are still confused as to how everything ties together, Wikipedia actually has a pretty good summary. This also nicely ties up the rough timeline. In addition, apparently someone worked out that Zero Time Dilemma can be unscrambled to 'Me, I'm Zero. I'm Delta.'.
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Jul 1, 2016 13:56
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Regy Rusty posted:Also when the Transportalizer was first revealed I was also suspicious and suspected some elaborate Zero trickery but no They're Out There my fave thing is just how many times Sigma has basically cloned himself by this point, there should be an entire timeline where everyone is a clone of Sigma i would play that game ApplesandOranges posted:In addition, apparently someone worked out that Zero Time Dilemma can be unscrambled to 'Me, I'm Zero. I'm Delta.'. UCHIKOSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII edit: is there anyone who did not PRESS THE BUTTON the second they were able that explosion was the funniest moment of the game for me vaguely fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 14:02
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Of all the retrospectively humorous posts I made in the other thread, this is my favorite:Regy Rusty posted:I just got to the BIGGEST REVELATION IN ZERO ESCAPE HISTORY I didn't realize how significant it was until well after I beat the game. 
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Jul 1, 2016 14:09
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Regy Rusty posted:Of all the retrospectively humorous posts I made in the other thread, this is my favorite: God loving dammit
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Jul 1, 2016 14:12
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The more time I have to think about the story now that I've completed it, I think I'm a little disappointed. The interactions with Akane and Junpei were erratic as gently caress. I know we're talking about different timelines, but they would ping pong between being close and bickering over if they should kill the other teams or not. Considering Akane's past with using people as pawns to get what she wants, I didn't quite understand her reluctance to do what was necessary to move forward in the game. You can argue that she did what she did in 999 for the greater good, and in the true end she didn't cause anyone to die, but even in Q&As Uchikoshi implied that Akane is a lot more cold than she lets on, so having Junpei be the cold one and Akane being the voice of reason felt a little odd. There were several points where I was hoping Junpei would call her out on what she did to everyone a year ago when she was being a goody two-shoes. Speaking of doing things for the greater good, can we just have one game where people do lovely things because they're lovely people? Zero 1 was Santa/Akane who made everyone play a death game in order to save Akane's life in the past, so she wasn't actually bad after all! Zero 3 was Sigma/Akane, who made a death game to train Sigma on how to SHIFT so that he could use the power to stop a terrorist organization from killing 6 billion people, so he wasn't actually bad after all! Now Zero 2 turns out to be the leader of the terrorist organization who killed 6 billion people, and he makes people play a death game so that he can kill those 6 billion people to save 2 billion people from dying(so retroactively, killing 6 billion people wasn't bad), oh and also give 9 people the motivation, knowledge and powers to try and stop a fanatic from killing everyone on the planet, retroactively removing the need to kill the 6 billion people, so I guess he wasn't actually bad after all! In VLR, Junpei points out that these timelines people jump away from are still real for the people left behind, they still happen, and ultimately these people are putting several different versions of themselves through hell just so they can get to the history they're comfortable with, and in that sense everyone involved in this story is a bad person, but we never have an antagonist who is out and out evil. Morally grey areas are good and interesting, but I never felt like I got a real pay off of turning it around on my tormentor in any of the games, except maybe 999 and Ace, who was, in my opinion, a secondary antagonist. I went through the stories, found a way to make things better, and the guy who put me in this awful situation then goes, "Thanks bro, you did exactly what the world needed you to do" and pats me on the back. The only real antagonist in the Zero Escape series is fate. An unfeeling, uncaring, intangible concept that the Zeroes of the series have been fighting tooth and nail to stop from killing humanity. And even that's not true, they're just fighting to make a history where it doesn't happen to them. Fate doesn't win or lose, and beating it doesn't feel satisfying. The journey of these games have always been amazing, but I feel like they don't always stick the landing when it comes to the destination.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:21
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The more I think about it, the more the Sean/Delta plot twist seems cheap and a cop-out just to have a twist. Sean is exclusively there to trick the player, he serves no other purpose than to fill in the player's "There are 3 people on each team" assumption. From the perspective of the characters and Delta, there is no reason to have a suspicious kid with a metal head as a fourth participant in one of the teams. Another question - why is Delta there as a team member when he has a camera feed into his glasses and is clearly able to mind hack people at a distance (If the idea that he mind hacked Diana and Carlos into picking the "bad" options in the first vote is to be believed), and why the hell did he, if he is so interested in shifters, decide to participate in the only team with no people with shifting abilities?
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Jul 1, 2016 14:31
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Sean has shifting abilities.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:36
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Oh my god a friend just pointed out another Q/Delta clue to me: In the bad end where you try to shoot Mira in the standoff, he was confused the first time through as to why the voice announced Q's death before he was actually dead as "Q" (Sean) was still barely alive at that point. But if you go back and look at the scene Mira shoots twice and you can hear the clatter of Delta falling out of his chair. And it's his death that gets announced loving Uchikoshi
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Jul 1, 2016 14:38
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