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Digirat posted:Where was it mentioned that you can refuse your powers? Harvey Smith mentioned it on twitter I think. It's also been mentioned in a whole bunch of articles for the game and showed up on the achievement list. In other demo related spoilers, Emily's lethal take down for the clockwork mansion mission is all sorts of amazing. mania fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 18:33
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Digirat posted:Where was it mentioned that you can refuse your powers? Thematically that sounds extremely cool but also a lot less interesting to play after a couple levels. I like the idea of just being some random moron skulking around filthy corners with a gun, but I could see myself regretting the decision to limit myself to that before long. it's basically a Mostly Flesh and Steel run++. Mostly Flesh and Steel can be really fun if you're of a certain mindset, but i don't think the reason so few people have the achievement on Dishonored 1 is because it's hard (it's really not).
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Oct 3, 2016 19:28
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Coolguye posted:it's basically a Mostly Flesh and Steel run++. Mostly Flesh and Steel can be really fun if you're of a certain mindset, but i don't think the reason so few people have the achievement on Dishonored 1 is because it's hard (it's really not). I remember MF&S being about as close to a Thief: TDP/TMA experience as there is these days, and enjoyed the hell out of it. I'm definitely looking forward to going powerless. Asbury fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 20:41
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I'm playing dishonored 1 on very hard right now and I'm reminded what a smart game it is. There are so many little touches and so much thought behind the mechanics, and the controls are great. I didn't think about how good the controls are until I played deus ex mankind divided and got annoyed at platforming in that game. Correctly interpreting whatever the gently caress the player wants to do right now has got to be extremely difficult in a game with complex environments, and dishonored nails it. I've never felt like it made me do something I didn't want to, or that it blocked me from doing something I wanted to do. I enjoy dishonored a lot more than deus ex in general. In the newer deus ex games I feel like I have to spend ages looking around the environments for a million little secrets they hid everywhere (and which can be mission-relevant, which means you don't want to skip doing that). I spent probably four times as long searching for things in mankind divided as I did going through areas with enemies still in them, which is the part of the gameplay that's actually interesting. It's a weird extreme to reach, but that game actually goes too far with the secrets and little nooks and crannies everywhere, because my dumb personality compels me to look through all of it before moving on. Dishonored's environments are much simpler while still giving you a great deal of freedom, and it nails that balance. The kinda muddy graphics and bad textures actually work in its favor because you can make out useful items really quickly, and there's not a million possible places things can be hidden--just enough to encourage exploring. They also give you the heart to find the most important stuff (while making its use 100% optional), which is another case of very smart design. I never feel like I have to slow down the pace of the game more than I want to, and both stealth and loud gameplay are implemented equally well. By now I am thoroughly jonesing for some dishonored 2. The clockwork mansion level looks fantastic and since the level design of dishonored 1 is so good about giving you decisions without overdoing it, I'm very confident in the rest of the sequel too.
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Oct 4, 2016 06:06
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If you refuse your powers does anything differentiate corvo and emily?
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Oct 4, 2016 06:16
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not that we know of but we won't know for sure until release probably
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Oct 4, 2016 06:21
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You should ask Coolguye about playing on Very Hard because it turns the game into a Warner Bros skit.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:34
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Which happens to cost you the Cleanest Hands achievement 
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Oct 4, 2016 07:37
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Mostly Flesh & Steel was a fun run and like Coolguye said, it's not that hard and "going loud" isn't so bad either because with all the upgrades your crossbow is a beast of a weapon.  I forgot about the painting Sokolov does in the intro. You drink the brandy on the table and it's not there in the finished product when you see it again. 
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Oct 4, 2016 09:10
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You can also stand around and hop back and forth between the guys and they will get progressively more annoyed at you. Naturally, I did it for as long as possible
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Oct 4, 2016 16:04
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CJacobs posted:You can also stand around and hop back and forth between the guys and they will get progressively more annoyed at you. Naturally, I did it for as long as possible A real great piece of reactivity would be if you stood there long enough you would be included in the portrait as well.
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Oct 4, 2016 18:38
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Video featuring part of my level. Beware spoilers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDF8O6zymeY
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Oct 6, 2016 16:12
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PLEASE let there be a running tab showing if you've been detected/someone has died. Just done the whole Daud mission there in the first game and didn't get "Ghost" and I can't recall being spotted and that's a long loving mission. 
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Oct 8, 2016 21:14
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something seems different about emily's pictures in high chaos...
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Oct 9, 2016 08:10
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Playing Dishonored for a second time recently gave me an appreciation for how good it is. Don't get me wrong I liked it the first time, but it really is just about the best in class despite some flaws and being a little on the short side. it just nails what it's trying to do really well. Played the new Deus Ex right after and it felt piss weak by comparison. Playing again definetly shot D2 to the top of my hype list. It looks gorgeous and assuming the gameplay is still great it'll be one of the best games of the year. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 08:52
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veni veni veni posted:Playing Dishonored for a second time recently gave me an appreciation for how good it is. Even on my 20th playthrough I'm still finding little things. Also killing Granny Rags as soon as you can to avoid her sidequest in the already too long Daud mission which I THINK I'm getting Ghost on. The scene that plays out when one of the Assassins informs him you've escaped played out differently. He said someone thought they caught a glimpse of me, so they checked the pit and I was gone as opposed to just saying I'd flat out escaped. Also River Krusts best not be in DH2. Didn't get GHOST again and I made absolutely sure I wasn't spotted. Dang. Diesel Fucker fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 12:00
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Resource posted:Video featuring part of my level. Beware spoilers. I really wanna click this dude but i ain't cause I really don't want to know anything
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Oct 9, 2016 15:43
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Digirat posted:something seems different about emily's pictures in high chaos... yeah, that picture's pretty messed up. Like what kind of 11 year old girl still writes her "E"s backwards?
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Oct 9, 2016 16:46
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3mily.
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Oct 9, 2016 16:49
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I can't really tell since that video is sort of an abilities showcase, but it looks like dark vision might be changed to be more like listen mode in the last of us? I hope so. It was horrendously overpowered in the first game.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:03
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But then how will I loot everything?
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Oct 9, 2016 17:05
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That aspect is cool. The thing that bothered me about Dark Vision is A. It just flat out lasted too long and B. as a result you can spend too much of the time looking at a very pretty game through a very gamey lens and it makes everything less cool to look at and easy. I think it would be better if it only lasted while you were holding the button and also it burned through your Mana. Maybe loot could be marked in some other way? Because yeah, it's easy to miss otherwise. Yes my complaints could be changed with a little bit of self restraint, but I am going to use the tools the game gives me regardless.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:13
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I'm not really a fan of having to play games in Batman vision or by constantly pinging some radar/sonar/search pulse in order to find loot and stuff you can interact with. However, if the game DOES require Batman vision don't do dumb things like add a large cooldown or resource cost because that just makes it more annoying.
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Oct 9, 2016 17:23
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veni veni veni posted:That aspect is cool. Its an interesting issue. In terms of in the moment gameplay, I totally agree. It is quite OP. But in games where there is a degree of openess, there is also the whole 'cleaning up' aspect; mooching around to collect all the loot, before you move on for good. Gotta collect it all! 'See the item' powers are nice for when you are sweeping up. But of course, the imperative is different; generally at that point, you aren't you aren't trying to 'beat' the mission - in all liklehood you already have - you are just checking that you didn't miss anything before moving on. Or its your 'get all the dangling bits' completionist run, so the whole focus is different.
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Oct 9, 2016 18:26
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yeah during the LP we're just wrapping up, TheLastRoboKy compared it to Detective Vision from the Batman games, and i felt that was really apt. really if you got rid of the visual effect (sepia in Dishonored, wireframe in Batman) you'd have an objectively superior form of vision, with no downsides. so really it just becomes a matter of are you personally offended by the visual effect's aesthetic enough to not abuse the hell out of it in the context of a stream or a LP the visual effect makes sense because it's harsh and you don't want to piss off your viewers. but in terms of just playing the game yourself i think it's difficult to argue that there's a real downside to darkvision and that's not really a good thing. even just disabling mana regen while it's active i think would be plenty.
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Oct 9, 2016 18:43
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But the thing is, this just makes it more annoying to handle. You haven't changed why you'd want to use it (ie. still as much as possible), so in situations where timing is important you may not use it a few times because of the added resource use/drain, every other time though you will simply be waiting longer for it to be usable/for mana to recharge etc.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:08
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Coolguye posted:yeah during the LP we're just wrapping up, TheLastRoboKy compared it to Detective Vision from the Batman games, and i felt that was really apt. really if you got rid of the visual effect (sepia in Dishonored, wireframe in Batman) you'd have an objectively superior form of vision, with no downsides. so really it just becomes a matter of are you personally offended by the visual effect's aesthetic enough to not abuse the hell out of it This is a good point and the problem with these abilities (In a lot of games not just Dishonored) is that the only downside is that it's less pleasing aesthetically. I can see why developers put super vision mode in stealth games now, in old stealth games you'd often have to wait minutes for the right moment to strike. I don't think people have the patience for that in a AAA game these days, myself included probably . So I can see why it exists, but I think there needs to be some sort of tradeoff, so these modes are something you don't spend too much time in. I don't see why developers would go through the effort of making these beautiful games that are full of atmosphere, just to give you an ability that washes the whole thing out lights up enemies and points of interest like a christmas tree. It's why I brought up TLOU. I actually think it is much better without listen mode, but at least it doesn't hamper the atmosphere like it does in most games. You just kind of use it for a few seconds here and there when you need it and you aren't altering how the whole game looks.
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Oct 9, 2016 19:34
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veni veni veni posted:I don't see why developers would go through the effort of making these beautiful games that are full of atmosphere, just to give you an ability that washes the whole thing out lights up enemies and points of interest like a christmas tree. These type of things are a reactionary band-aid to basically two things - either poor level design resulting in unsatisfying scavenging/exploring for secrets, or bad mechanical design, poor level design, and/or a focus on art over design resulting in impractical stealthy reconnaissance. Dishonored doesn't really have any of those problems too badly, mostly there are just some badly hidden items that you would never find without Dark Vision/Heart. MGS V definitely has the best set of systems for this, because they're integrated into the gameplay rather than feeling like a hack you press a button to toggle. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 19:51
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orcane posted:But the thing is, this just makes it more annoying to handle. You haven't changed why you'd want to use it (ie. still as much as possible), so in situations where timing is important you may not use it a few times because of the added resource use/drain, every other time though you will simply be waiting longer for it to be usable/for mana to recharge etc. uhhhh it means it costs more to be mobile and active while you're using the power, which is a very good reason why you wouldn't want it on all the time veni veni veni posted:This is a good point and the problem with these abilities (In a lot of games not just Dishonored) is that the only downside is that it's less pleasing aesthetically. I can see why developers put super vision mode in stealth games now, in old stealth games you'd often have to wait minutes for the right moment to strike. I don't think people have the patience for that in a AAA game these days, myself included probably . So I can see why it exists, but I think there needs to be some sort of tradeoff, so these modes are something you don't spend too much time in. thought about this a little bit i think the number one way you could get around it is to have more elaborate intelligence gathering procedures. the biggest difference between stealth games and what we know of covert ops from declassified documents and poo poo (i'm not about to pretend i know a ton about modern irl poo poo) is that the actual execution is a strict minority of the actual time that goes into an operation. beyond that it's an absolute assload of intelligence gathering and analysis. i think Dishonored 1's events take place over the course of like 2 weeks total. really what it should've been is that you have like a week or two before each mission to just walk around the target area, get a feel for the place, and figure out what it's going to be like when you get to the actual mission. maybe you grease a guard's palm to get the duty assignments for that evening, maybe you poison the captain so he's puking his guts out and everyone stays put instead of going on patrol like they should, etc. daud's favor purchases were kind of a step in the right direction. in the meantime you can also do odd jobs to get off-path keys and money, explore gutters for the like 10-coin pickups you can get in the actual mission, and otherwise just do stuff to build up. that way by the time you actually set the player on the mission, you can reasonably expect that players know what's going on, and if you want to make it really easy you can set up outlines or whatever of expected guard places or other stuff based upon your intel. trouble of course is making the build-up as interesting as the actual mission, which would legit be hard Coolguye fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 19:53
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khwarezm posted:although I have gained new respect for CJacobs. just came in to say lmao to this, best post in the thread
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Oct 9, 2016 19:56
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Coolguye posted:uhhhh it means it costs more to be mobile and active while you're using the power, which is a very good reason why you wouldn't want it on all the time Now you made it so you have to stop to use it all the time. You have to move parts of the functionality, just stacking penalties on it is not a great solution.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:16
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Resource posted:Video featuring part of my level. Beware spoilers. dude that looks dope as hell, nice work. professional level design strikes me as a really tricky job since you need to make just a little segment of a whole believable world. all that's left is good gameplay 
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Oct 9, 2016 20:21
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I really didn't like dark vision in the original. It costs very little mana and had a long duration so you could have it literally always on and the visual effect made the entire game look like poo poo. For dis 2 I was really hoping they 1) change the effect to something more visually pleasing and 2) alter the spell's mechanics so it's either not desirable or possible to spam it. Make it a toggleable spell that constantly drains mana or give it a some kind of a negative effect, like you see all the characters and objects around you but the actual world around you melts away so you can't navigate while it's on. I'm still not sure exactly how this new version works and not convinced that all the things I didn't like about it are fixed but I'll wait till launch to make that judgement.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:21
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orcane posted:Now you made it so you have to stop to use it all the time. You have to move parts of the functionality, just stacking penalties on it is not a great solution. i don't understand what you are talking about so let's start over a minute the problem presented was that wallhack stuff like dark vision and detective vision have no actual downsides or costs beyond the visual effect, which is dubious at best i proposed a cost and you don't seem to be talking about that at all, you seem to be talking about how people would continue to keep it up at nearly all times and it'd be not worth it or something, which is kind of the point (???) like what exactly are you proposing here
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Oct 9, 2016 20:23
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Also since they've talked about having various difficulty options I hope there's one that disables the passive mana regen. I think this single change would make me enjoy the game even more.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:27
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the passive mana regen was really good i thought, otherwise you'd see people using the super cool and fun powers they had a lot less. casual use of blink or dark vision isn't an issue and can help the experience out a lot i felt, without them it becomes a lot more annoying to move around and get things done. constant use of both was a serious problem sure, but in blink's case that consumed your mana pretty quickly. darkvision didn't but we all basically agree that was a problem.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:33
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Coolguye posted:the passive mana regen was really good i thought, otherwise you'd see people using the super cool and fun powers they had a lot less. casual use of blink or dark vision isn't an issue and can help the experience out a lot i felt, without them it becomes a lot more annoying to move around and get things done. constant use of both was a serious problem sure, but in blink's case that consumed your mana pretty quickly. darkvision didn't but we all basically agree that was a problem. Yeah most people probably like the passive regen which is why I said it should be an optional toggle like the guard vertical vision cones. For me the lack of regen would immediately make resource management more important, suddenly even something as simple as blink has a real cost associated with it and you need to consider your movements and actions a lot more carefully. It also balances the powers without nerfing their actual effects. I was constantly capped at 10 mana vials in the original and never felt like my resources were limited which made the exploration feel a bit meaningless at times. I still searched every corner I found because the art and level design are best in class but I'd really like to have an actual gameplay reason for the exploration.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:42
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Coolguye posted:i don't understand what you are talking about so let's start over a minute My point is that the issue is largely in the function of Batman vision, and that just adding a cost only makes it more obnoxious to use, it doesn't greatly change the fact that you want to use it as often as possible. I even wrote that but I can see you didn't read it and I'm starting to understand posters like khwarezm. Plenty of games have a version of Batman vision with penalties but if you want to see enemies/hidden things, you will hit it as often as possible regardless. If it takes mana/cooldowns/turns off if you walk, people just refresh it every few steps instead of having xray vision up all the time, but that still isn't fun or good, to some people it might actually be worse. Some use a pulse that you have to hit far fewer times, or passive "radar" abilities that don't require keeping up a false color mode, I don't know. Basically: K8.0 posted:These type of things are a reactionary band-aid to basically two things - either poor level design resulting in unsatisfying scavenging/exploring for secrets, or bad mechanical design, poor level design, and/or a focus on art over design resulting in impractical stealthy reconnaissance. Dishonored doesn't really have any of those problems too badly, mostly there are just some badly hidden items that you would never find without Dark Vision/Heart.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:48
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Coolguye posted:i think Dishonored 1's events take place over the course of like 2 weeks total. really what it should've been is that you have like a week or two before each mission to just walk around the target area, get a feel for the place, and figure out what it's going to be like when you get to the actual mission. maybe you grease a guard's palm to get the duty assignments for that evening, maybe you poison the captain so he's puking his guts out and everyone stays put instead of going on patrol like they should, etc. daud's favor purchases were kind of a step in the right direction. in the meantime you can also do odd jobs to get off-path keys and money, explore gutters for the like 10-coin pickups you can get in the actual mission, and otherwise just do stuff to build up. Corvo spends 6 months getting tortured in the prison after the assassination so your estimate is off.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:08
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Alternatively, batman-vision is an important part of gameplay for games like The Last Of Us because you move very slowly and the enemies move very quickly, so it's relatively important to have some way for you to be aware of them before they're aware of you to make up for what you lack in speed and stopping power. Dishonored is a first person game where you can move real fast, so a batman-vision thing isn't really necessary because the style of game it is doesn't have much room for it as a skill you might have.
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Oct 9, 2016 21:16
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