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Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.

Gunder posted:

You're still a new player, you just don't see the mistakes you're making. Watching pros play on Twitch has really allowed me to up my game in ways I probably never would have thought about if left to my own devices. There was a recent tournament that, during the entire event, had a total of one monster win. That's how heavily slanted towards hunters this game is. At our lovely level, though, anything can happen.

But again I don't give a poo poo about super high tier play, almost none of us will ever approach that.

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Gunder
May 22, 2003

I didn't mean to suggest that you need to become a pro. I'm just pointing out that, at this stage of play, we're still grappling with the basics of strategy and teamwork. The game feels much more fair, and enjoyable, once you start to get some faint degree of mastery over the fundamentals. Play with friends too, it's infinitely better.

Tha_Joker_GAmer
Aug 16, 2006
The problem with Hunter is that it never really feels like you're doing anything wrong, you learn some poo poo as you play, you stop using up jetpack fuel trying to dodge monsters just because they are auto-attacking you and save it for abilites and you get a handle on how to make yourself annoying to kill by running around edges and repeatedly climbing cliffs and dropping off and stuff like that. But there'll still be games where you just get focsused down and shat on and feel like there was nothing you could have done, especially against good Krakens.

Then there'll be games where you queue up profile 50 matchmaking as hunter and get a Hyde teammate who literally uses his loving chaingun the entire game like I had yesterday.

When you play Hunter it's a total crapshoot since only one of your teammates being bad leads you to being shat on by any decent monster and when you play as monster the games are either too easy or almost impossible. That's just how asymmetric games go I guess.

aegof
Mar 2, 2011

Knifegrab posted:

I'm actually starting to think what it likely is, now that I am level 30 and being match made with level 30 the quality of hunter pubbies has remained about the same (herding cats, a bunch of non-communicative nonsense) while the monsters on the other hand have gotten better but don't have to rely on anyone else.

The game is definitely balanced around a single monster fighting an actual team of Hunters, rather than four assholes who who don't communicate with or pay attention to each other at all. If the monster's supposed to be a challenge for 4 coordinated hunters, of course silent pub teams are gonna get wrecked.

Fresh Shesh Besh
May 15, 2013

GentlemanSquirl posted:

Those are overall stats, so as a whole the population is close to 50/50. But if we sort by premade or high skill, Hunters go to 65%+ winrates.

The solo tuning feature we have allows us to tune for premades without hurting solo and low/mid tier winrates. Each week with the Hunter adjustments, I am adjusting the Solo Matchmaking knob and it's keeping everything in nice order :slight_smile:

From lead designer in the 7/26/16 balance patch thread.

I guess it's a little vague since I didn't bother to keep reading the thread and see if they expanded on this at all. However I'd never miss a chance to point out if you think monsters are overpowered then you're dumb and I hate you.

If you really feel like you're getting thrashed all the time as hunters, get a little charisma and make some friends to play with.

For the record a lot of upcoming changes posted in that thread are hunter nerfs. :getin:

To be fair I feel like they're gonna end up going overboard with nerfs in the end.

Fresh Shesh Besh fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jul 23, 2016

aegof
Mar 2, 2011

Won my first monster game tonight, entirely on the strength of Decoy I think. It's a really strong power.

Ularg
Mar 2, 2010

Just tell me I'm exotic.
Hey, where can I go to find goons to talk or play with? Any irc/discord or mumble? If not we could always start hanging out in CTS mumble.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.

Ularg posted:

Hey, where can I go to find goons to talk or play with? Any irc/discord or mumble? If not we could always start hanging out in CTS mumble.

Some of us hang out in the discord listed in the OP.

Lexusbeat
Jul 8, 2008
Its kind of silly that killing players isn't worth it until later on in the game, as in stage one they come back so fast you should just let them lie there and attract their teammates.
As a hunter you should probably just mash b if you get knocked down in stage one. Although truth be told, if you got knocked down in stage one the rest of the game is probably set in stone unless you have done significant health damage.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
Can anyone give me tips on using Gorgon's spiders in an active engagement? I keep trying to hide behind corners with them but most of the time they just die or get stuck on geometry trying to capture someone they can't reach. Should I try putting them at the tops of cliffs more?

Also I don't know if I'd go as far as to say this balance patch made the game drastically monster-favored but trapjaws being edible now seems like a pretty huge buff.

aegof
Mar 2, 2011

So someone on reddit put together a list of the perks you can get without keys.
I took that and cut it down to a list of perks you must spend keys on.

quote:

MONSTER
Minor

Enhanced Senses 2/3
Heavy Armor 1/3
Savage Nature 2/3
Unstoppable 1/3

Major
Insatiable Hunger 1/3
Mutated Claw 1/3
Mutated Haste 2/3
Mutated Recovery 3/3
Mutated Senses 2/3
Speed Climber 2/3

Superior
Deadly Brawler 1/3
Evolved Claw 3/3
Evolved Recovery 3/3
Ferocious Bloodlust 2/3
Paralyzing Attack 3/3
Plated Armor 1/3
Unending Endurance 3/3

HUNTER
Minor

Afterburners 3/3

Major
Enhanced Regeneration 1/3
Focused Thrusters 3/3

Superior
Overthrusters 3/3
Speedloader 2/3 (One from daily log in reward 24)
Superior Energy 3/3
Unbreakable Defense 2/3 (One from daily log in reward 17)

Of course, this is only gonna be as accurate as that reddit post. Lemme know if you spot anything wrong.

Fresh Shesh Besh
May 15, 2013

Ularg posted:

Hey, where can I go to find goons to talk or play with? Any irc/discord or mumble? If not we could always start hanging out in CTS mumble.

Along with the discord there is also an Evolve channel in the goon Mumble where at least 3 or 4 of us play regularly.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf
The new character rotation is interesting - tons of terrible wraiths balanced out by no one being able to aim Torvald's cannons

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

That and I keep seeing constant wailing about Lazarus, who seems fine because I'm not and don't plan to be playing at ~high level~ or whatever, where he's apparently worthless? :shrug:

Ularg
Mar 2, 2010

Just tell me I'm exotic.
I just played a bunch of games with Knifegrab and it was basically the best thing ever. :allears:

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.

Ularg posted:

I just played a bunch of games with Knifegrab and it was basically the best thing ever. :allears:

:blush:

Except for when I raged at those pubbies and told them to uninstall evolve :smith:

But yeah just having one more component hunter on the team is really the best thing. More people should join the discord.

Ularg
Mar 2, 2010

Just tell me I'm exotic.

Knifegrab posted:

Except for when I raged at those pubbies and told them to uninstall evolve :smith:

Silentkiller visibly got better as time went on. He lost two games as the monster then won two games as hunters with us.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.

Ularg posted:

Silentkiller visibly got better as time went on. He lost two games as the monster then won two games as hunters with us.

We built him up. (Also playing with Alu right now if you wanna come)

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.



How is Laz considering supports don't give him that extra cloaking safety net anymore? Granted you never really saw anybody use it unless you were actually communicating with people that knew what they were doing but nowadays with Laz without a shielding support you might as well not even try him i'm thinking?

pedro0930
Oct 15, 2012

Yardbomb posted:

That and I keep seeing constant wailing about Lazarus, who seems fine because I'm not and don't plan to be playing at ~high level~ or whatever, where he's apparently worthless? :shrug:

The entire gimmick of Lazarus is that he can revive downed and killed people super fast with no strike. With the dome mechanic change, getting downed greatly reduced dome timer, so how is his gimmick suppose to function? Maybe glove revive should add some dome timer back?

Tha_Joker_GAmer
Aug 16, 2006

HOOLY BOOLY posted:

How is Laz considering supports don't give him that extra cloaking safety net anymore? Granted you never really saw anybody use it unless you were actually communicating with people that knew what they were doing but nowadays with Laz without a shielding support you might as well not even try him i'm thinking?

He's getting buffed in the patch on the 26th so that while cloaked he heals 40 hp/sec which doesn't get interrupted with damage. Which is 2/3rds of a regular Val heal I think. That extra survivability will help a lot since cloak pretty much does nothing vs any half decent monster. Cloak is worthless and in time they will probably give him a different ability.

terrorist ambulance
Nov 5, 2009
Yeah the dome mechanic changes male him pointless kind of. You don't want people getting downed during your dome at all or the monster just jets and gets more time to eat, whether he picks them up for "free" or not.

Cake Smashing Boob
Nov 5, 2008

I support black genocide
I think Laz is a little weak right now, but I don't think he's super terrible when paired with offensive supports (Kala or Cabot) and Crow. Dome going down fast isn't much of a problem if you can get health damage done as quick, and Laz can often force the monster to either corpse camp during/after dome for a strike, or trade health damage for nothing.

I don't think it's as effective as other comps, but it's one way to make Lazarus work. Has been for us, at least.

Ularg
Mar 2, 2010

Just tell me I'm exotic.
Lost my 10 game win streak because I got made the monster. :smith:

It was a blast though. Now it's going to be hard to play this game without goons.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Jack feels fun and good, is this hopefully a thing that stays pretty true as you go? About the only thing I've kind of neglected is the push ray because it never feels like I'm doing much with it, or at least as much as if I'd still just been laying into the monster with my pistols.

Boing
Jul 12, 2005

trapped in custom title factory, send help

Yardbomb posted:

Jack feels fun and good, is this hopefully a thing that stays pretty true as you go? About the only thing I've kind of neglected is the push ray because it never feels like I'm doing much with it, or at least as much as if I'd still just been laying into the monster with my pistols.

I don't understand this because the push ray is the only part of Jack that is unique or interesting. It's a cool skill but it seems like you have nothing to do when you're not using it

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Boing posted:

I don't understand this because the push ray is the only part of Jack that is unique or interesting. It's a cool skill but it seems like you have nothing to do when you're not using it

Tossing the stake in the ground's gotten me a silly amount of monster finds, then pretty much blowing the scan the second it comes off CD and speeding around/sticking to the monsters is about what I've done so far.

That and for some reason I just really enjoy those pistols.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf
Played some great games tonight on the CTS mumble. Definitely recommend hitting up mumble or discord to see if anyone else is playing, really makes the hunter game a blast with coordinated teams.

Lamquin
Aug 11, 2007

Ularg posted:

Lost my 10 game win streak because I got made the monster. :smith:

It was a blast though. Now it's going to be hard to play this game without goons.

That game was something special. The fact that you let me as Emet keep on "respawning" people (which was hilarious because we were on the same voicecom and you became increasingly frustrated over where the hunters kept coming from) and it still boiled down to a lone Torvald at a sliver of health killing you means you did really well!



I'm fairly certain it gave me a new personal best in successful respawn calls! :shobon: We should totally play some more together.

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.
Honestly all the games today were a ton of fun guys, sorry if I sometimes put on my try hard pants.

Lexusbeat
Jul 8, 2008
Ugh this is game is frustrating for me for the same reasons it was when I played it when it came out: I'm currently running a 23:2 win ratio as monster and to be honest just kerb stomping people only holds so much appeal. Surely I should be seeing good teams by now?
The current free combo of hunters is also god awful. Nobody should be playing bucket. Or laz. Let alone together.

Do players get any better when you unlock competitive?

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story
Any advice on wraith? It's pretty easy to stay away from the hunters with his speed, but I just can't seem to get a lot of killing damage off. What skills should I be focusing on?

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
All of your skills do a significant amount of damage so you can just abduct someone, use decoy and supernova, click at them like you're playing Diablo and then use warp blast as a finisher if needed. If anyone tries to rescue a downed character either abduct them away or warp blast in and commence mashing buttons again. In my experience it can be worth waiting a second after abducting someone so they have time to dodge away, pressing the rest of your buttons after you follow them with a traversal, since the decoy has pretty fickle AI and supernova has a short radius and duration.

Personally I start out with 2 points in warp blast and 1 in abduct and decoy, then level 3 warp blast and decoy+supernova, then max out decoy and one last point in supernova. I don't know if that's actually good, I just like warp blast.

HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 24, 2016

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf

Lexusbeat posted:

Ugh this is game is frustrating for me for the same reasons it was when I played it when it came out: I'm currently running a 23:2 win ratio as monster and to be honest just kerb stomping people only holds so much appeal. Surely I should be seeing good teams by now?
The current free combo of hunters is also god awful. Nobody should be playing bucket. Or laz. Let alone together.

Do players get any better when you unlock competitive?

In ranked mode hunters will be winning around 50% of the time. Hunt is always a random crapshoot if the hunters are braindead or not.

Higher levels see more non random groups and especially people who have picked characters they like/work well. Like you said bucket and laz are not super great free characters and at low level most people don't unlock any others.

Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 24, 2016

yergacheffe
Jan 22, 2007
Whaler on the moon.

You can also stop the lunge part of warp blast early by pushing 1 again. I was overshooting a lot until I realized I could do this.

Drakes
Jul 18, 2007

Why my bullets no hit?
Not really feeling Jack, hes seems above average for tracking the monster down but just horrible when it comes to managing it. Can't tell if his pistols are better than other trappers primaries.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf

Drakes posted:

Not really feeling Jack, hes seems above average for tracking the monster down but just horrible when it comes to managing it. Can't tell if his pistols are better than other trappers primaries.

Playing as jack I'm total poo poo with his repulser ray but as the monster that thing is infuriating. I'm still not entirely sure how it works but there are times where you literally can not move forward at all.

I think it blocks the monster from coming straight at him, which if you stick next to the medic (or the current focused target) you can just lock the monster away. Other trapper abilities just slow me down and annoy me, but never completely make me turn around.

Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jul 25, 2016

Knifegrab
Jul 30, 2014

Gadzooks! I'm terrified of this little child who is going to stab me with a knife. I must wrest the knife away from his control and therefore gain the upperhand.
So I was doing some testing because I thought some things didn't make perfect sense.

First off, it seems almost every perk does stack, regeneration stacks with each other, as does movement speed, reload time, etc.

Even infra/ultra vision stacks which gives you a pretty drat hefty amount of wallhack if they are both fully leveled.

Thirdly, reload speed affects everything that isn't a class ability. Take cabot for example:

-His railgun will reload faster effectively upping his RPM
-His dust cloud will recharge fast
-His damage amp will also recharge faster.

So reload speed is actually a pretty dang good perk.

Also while wildlife typically respawn in the same place not everything is consistent.

Plant traps are randomly distributed around a map (there are a number of preset areas for them) but they do not respawn if killed it seems.

This is similar to megamouths although I do not know if they respawn (I believe they do) but they always can be in one of about three different locations on the map.

Fresh Shesh Besh
May 15, 2013

Drakes posted:

Not really feeling Jack, hes seems above average for tracking the monster down but just horrible when it comes to managing it. Can't tell if his pistols are better than other trappers primaries.

Sorry about your bad opinion. His pistols are nothing crazy sure, but literally the only time you should have your pistols out is if you're waiting for his repulsor gloves to recharge. The repulsor is incredibly frustrating for monsters, it's amazing.

Captain Beans posted:

Playing as jack I'm total poo poo with his repulser ray but as the monster that thing is infuriating. I'm still not entirely sure how it works but there are times where you literally can not move forward at all.

I think it blocks the monster from coming straight at him, which if you stick next to the medic (or the current focused target) you can just lock the monster away. Other trapper abilities just slow me down and annoy me, but never completely make me turn around.

The thing is you can curve the repulsor. If you're aiming to the left or right it will curve in that direction. This means you can block monsters moving towards you or horizontally in front of you in either direction.

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Drakes
Jul 18, 2007

Why my bullets no hit?
Theres not alot of feedback on the repulsor so it kinda feels like its notdoing much at times? Like when a harpoon trap goes on I can look at it and go "Oh yeah monster got poon'd!".

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