Disney Princesses & Upcoming Film "Moana" (2016)

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Empress Brosephine: Mar 31, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

The best disney princess is Brer Rabbit and I won't take any other answer

# ? Aug 3, 2016 01:17

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 01:13

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

Das Boo posted:

I remember that single episode because it was commonly referenced for starting that weird fetish trend.

Snake people are a pretty common fixture in mythology around the world for a lot of recorded history, I'm pretty sure there were at least a few dudes in India lusting after nagi long before Disney decided to adapt it for their show.

Now, if it was the other way around with the snake half on top and the human half on the bottom I'd be a little more worried...

# ? Aug 3, 2016 01:36

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Nah, it's like specifically people turning into stuff, that episode (which is a good episode, aside from its later ramifications) was an episode that apparently made people want to see ladies turn into stuff that isn't conventional ladies, for sex purposes.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 01:40

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

I recall that episode also revealed that the anthro cat spirit and the blind spirit man were once lovers.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 03:22

Das Boo: Jun 9, 2011; There was a GHOST here.
It's gone now.

Guy Mann posted:

Snake people are a pretty common fixture in mythology around the world for a lot of recorded history, I'm pretty sure there were at least a few dudes in India lusting after nagi long before Disney decided to adapt it for their show.

Now, if it was the other way around with the snake half on top and the human half on the bottom I'd be a little more worried...

Anything that's ever existed has been lusted after by someone, I assume. I'm more so talking about people alive today who realized their fetish from it, much in the same way Robin Hood is regarded as the awakening film for contemporary furries. People always been fuckin' animals, mon.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 06:35

Paragon8: Feb 19, 2007

Pick posted:

Nah, it's like specifically people turning into stuff, that episode (which is a good episode, aside from its later ramifications) was an episode that apparently made people want to see ladies turn into stuff that isn't conventional ladies, for sex purposes.

i thought that was the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles episode where April O'Neill turns into a cat.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 12:30

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Das Boo posted:

Anything that's ever existed has been lusted after by someone, I assume. I'm more so talking about people alive today who realized their fetish from it, much in the same way Robin Hood is regarded as the awakening film for contemporary furries. People always been fuckin' animals, mon.

This is pretty good evidence that Disney princess films and other similar media do absolutely have an effect on developing persons' sexualities and sexual expectations, though.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 17:50

Build-a-Boar: Feb 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Off the top of my head I can remember episodes where Jasmine turns into a naga and a rat, Iago turns into a lizard, Aladdin's a shark for one of them and somebody I can't remember turns into a werejackal? Maybe?

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:07

Magic Hate Ball: May 6, 2007; ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this

Oh please, this is clearly Don Bluth's domain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6ROv1JKfg

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:26

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Oh please, this is clearly Don Bluth's domain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6ROv1JKfg

God. Everything about this is revolting and weird. I dislike Don Bluth's animation more and more as time goes on

# ? Aug 3, 2016 18:39

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

Macaluso posted:

God. Everything about this is revolting and weird. I dislike Don Bluth's animation more and more as time goes on

That's because most people only remember Don Bluth from American Tail where his crazier poo poo is kept in check.\

I'm glad I'm not the only one that likes the Aladdin DVD movies, I don't remember the show at all beyond the fact that the guards still treated Aladdin like crap despite him being the next Sultan.

# ? Aug 3, 2016 20:13

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

Pick posted:

Nah, it's like specifically people turning into stuff, that episode (which is a good episode, aside from its later ramifications) was an episode that apparently made people want to see ladies turn into stuff that isn't conventional ladies, for sex purposes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOpirOeRV3E&t=75s

# ? Aug 4, 2016 01:32

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

dog days are over posted:

Off the top of my head I can remember episodes where Jasmine turns into a naga and a rat, Iago turns into a lizard, Aladdin's a shark for one of them and somebody I can't remember turns into a werejackal? Maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnVTx9D36L4

What the gently caress is with those side bony-fish-frills? Sharks have nothing like that! :tizzy:

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Oh please, this is clearly Don Bluth's domain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6ROv1JKfg

Nothing sexual about this, especially when her big rear end is shaking around or her tits pop out massively. This seems pretty innocent to me. no problems here. 0/10 no problematics problematicking.

# ? Aug 4, 2016 06:23

Avshalom: Feb 14, 2012; by Lowtax

i'm a disney princess

# ? Aug 4, 2016 06:39

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Das Boo posted:

On the topic of stylization of the human form, I actually support it as I see one of the primary benefits of animation being the ability to free oneself from the tethers of practicality. I won't deny ladies are typically stylized in the same manner, which I'd argue is not a problem if stylization in and of itself (and not to where the solution should be a more realistic design), but rather a limitation in that the design is expected to adhere to only the ideal feminine form. In other words, the problem is the stylization of women is even more restrictive than drawing realistic women, which defeats the purpose of stylization. The opportunity is being fettered when it should be encouraged.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying and I largely agree, and it articulates an important distinction. That said, I think part of my concern is that art can't exist in a vacuum, especially considering art is only "art" in a cultural framework. And I think the way we stylize and the way we idealize the female form reinforce each other. Western beauty standards present the ideal woman as thin yet curvy with big eyes, so the stylized woman magnifies these features to quickly communicate her as achieving the beauty ideal, but then the beauty ideal is validated, reinforced, or exaggerated by the support it receives from representations in the media, and stylization now operates from a reference frame three points over and wholly divorced from reality.

It's true that this is not the only way people are stylized in animation, but there's a tremendous, sexually-loaded character to how women who are meant to be read as "attractive" are stylized. One of my favorite female designs, divorced of socio-cultural context, is Madame Medusa.

And I don't have a problem with her, or someone with this design, being a villain. Except that you don't see women who are stylized this way represented in positive roles. And most of the aspects of her appearance are either out of her control (no chin), or mocking things within her control (e.g. "overapplied" eyeshadow)*. Just like it's not a problem when, say, a black or homosexual person is cast as a villain per se, it becomes problematic when those persons are exclusively assigned specific, and commonly negative, roles.

*For example, I would say things out of her control are: her "Chiclet" teeth, her large and pointed nose, her lack of chin, and her overall sagginess (considering her age). The things within her control are her presumably fake hair color, bright lipstick, bright eyeshadow, and false lashes. Of course, these are "feminine" things to wear, but it's positioned in a negative light because it's not "natural beauty" (where "natural beauty", as presented in for example Sleeping Beauty, doesn't exist, since humans aren't born with khol.)

Pick fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Aug 4, 2016

# ? Aug 4, 2016 18:38

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Current arguments about Moana are actually touching on this, sort of, but from a different angle!

quote:

Disney's latest animated film, Moana, will heavily feature South Pacific myths and culture, something rarely explored on film. The film centers on Moana, a born navigator who sets sail in search of a fabled island and teams up with the heroic demigod Maui, voiced by Dwayne Johnson. We've seen some posters and promotional images and recently got a teaser trailer giving us our first footage of the movie. While the trailer received lots of positive buzz, there is a group of people who has claimed that the film portrays negative stereotypes, specifically with the character Maui. These activists believe that Disney is misrepresenting their culture by making Maui severely overweight.
Moana

Maui in Polynesian mythology is a demigod who is responsible for many heroic feats, which include slowing down the sun and raising up the Hawaiian Islands from the ocean floor. That aspect of the character is represented in Moana, but several activists are taking issue with the way Maui looks. They believe that the character is too fat and that it portrays a negative stereotype about Polynesians. People collected a few statements from prominent figures in the South Pacific and why they had an issue with Disney's Maui. Jenny Salesa from the New Zealand Parliament had this to say:

""When we look at photos of Polynesian men and women from the last 100 to 200 years, most of our people were not overweight, and this negative stereotype of Maui is just not acceptable.""

Disney's version of Maui is certainly heavyset and it's understandable that people are speaking out to make sure their culture, which isn't represented often, is shown respectfully. Claims that Maui is "obese" like from that of Will Ilolahia from the Pacific Media Association may be a step too far, though, and it might be best to wait until more footage from the film is released. Maui in mythology is strong enough to stop the sun and the stockiness of the Disney version does convey that power. He looks both physically strong and confident.

Many people have come out to defend Disney on the appearance of Moana. Designer Louie Mantia pointed out that several Disney characters are portrayed as overweight like the Genie from Aladdin or Phil from Hercules. Samoan comic book artist Michel Mulipola also brought up that animation design is a big factor in conveying personality. He goes on to argue that Maui's "thick, solid build conveys power and strength."

Other people are mad for completely different reasons than that!

quote:

Moana is one of the most highly anticipated Disney movies in years � at least for me. The number of Disney princesses of color in the company's line-up can still be counted on one hand, and I never shy away from the opportunity to idolize another one, whether she's specifically black or not. Add to that, the report that Moana will not have a love interest in her film, which seemed at first, like another reason to be excited for the movie. However, the more I thought about it, the more I saw a downside to the same lack of love interest for Moana. While I'll reserve full judgement until I see how the film handles Moana's story, it has to be noted that when it comes to character of color, having a love life is something of a luxury in mainstream media.

As Hollywood struggles to create depth and complexity in its characters of color instead of relying on the same stereotypical tropes, there are often some missteps and some outright failures. It's a sad but true fact that characters of color are often rendered sexless and undesirable in films and TV shows, especially when compared to their white counterparts. In a Buzzfeed article aptly titled "Why Is Onscreen Romance So Rarely On The Cards For Black Women?" writer Bim Adewunmi wrote:

When it comes to mainstream movies (of which I am a huge fan), I am always doing an involuntary audit for black women � how many of us are there? In what capacity? Do we make it to the end? ...Because a lot of the time we are not there at all, and then when we are present, we are often � as in the rest of popular culture � rendered sexless, hypercapable (at the expense of all other facets of humanity), and deemed unworthy of greater character development and resolution.

The problem is one that is unique to the POC community; as we fight for women who are more well-rounded characters than simply being eye candy or love interests, there's another fight that black women are fighting to even be recognized as legitimate love interests at all. And it's worse when you consider it doesn't just happen to black women. For every Cookie Lyon from Empire and Michaela Pratt from How To Get Away With Murder, there are dozens of women of color in film and movies whose romantic arcs are either undervalued compared to those of white women or never materialize at all, as if having a romance would distract from their role as background decoration.

Take, for example, Areida from 2004's Ella Enchanted; she had no other role in a fairy tale romance movie than that of Ella's Best Friend. While Ella was overcoming adversity and falling in love, Areida was being used as a plot device to show how hard Ella's curse made her life (people could command Ella to stop hanging out with her closest friend, Areida). Then there are characters like Lily in the 2006 film The Devil Wears Prada, who seemingly has a life outside of her white friends' circle in that we know she works in the art world. Still, Lily also never has the opportunity to be desired and instead seems to exist only to further her white friend Andy's storyline in a negative way. And even being a main character doesn't make women of color safe, because they could end up like Bonnie Bennett on The CW's The Vampire Diaries: While white characters Elena and Caroline move from love triangle to love triangle, always the focus of multiple men's attentions, Bonnie's love life is given much less focus and her relationships, when she has them, often end quickly or badly.

The message in Hollywood has always been clear: you can't be a woman of color, a strong woman of color, and happily fall in love. Not for long. Or not at all.

Moana sets itself apart from those films by existing in the Disney animated canon, where the movie is an outlier in an otherwise formulaic universe: girl meets boy, girl and boy fall in love, girl and boy ride off into the sunset. Beforehand, the girl and the boy didn't even need to have more than half a conversation before getting married (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid). But, as times change, so too has Disney, so much so that we've had a series of films � Brave (Pixar created, Disney-distributed), Tangled, Frozen � in which the heroine had no love interest or, if she did, it was the start of a relationship, not the start of a marriage, that the audience got to see.

In light of that, it's revolutionary and progressive that Moana should choose to set itself apart as the first Disney princess film to not give that princess a love interest. It's revolutionary and progressive that Moana should state from the start that the woman in question will not have her journey defined or seemingly enhanced by the promise of a man by the end of it.

But it's also a very careful line that Disney has to walk. Moana is the first princess of Polynesian descent in Disney canon, which means she has the hopes and dreams of so many children from that culture resting on her shoulders. It's important that the movie endeavors to teach those children that they can have a full life even without a romantic partner in it, and not that they can't be strong, fierce, interesting, and loved romantically at the same time. Those are both lessons that can be taken from the same fact that Moana won't have a love interest in her film, after all, depending on how it's handled.

One film that struck that balance perfectly was Lilo and Stitch. Taking place in Hawaii and starring a cast of Hawaiian characters (and an alien), Lilo and Stitch showed us the young Lilo being raised by her older sister Nani. Throughout the film, Nani was pursued romantically by David, a surfer who was completely enamored with her. However, for Nani, her troubled little sister came first, and she was too busy, and often too stressed, to give David a second glance. It was only when Lilo was happy, and when Nani was happy, that she opened herself up to the idea of a relationship with him � making him no promises, but also not closing herself off completely to the idea.

In that way, Lilo and Stitch made it clear that Nani could do it all and have it all, but that she didn't need love in her life until she was already satisfied with that life. She didn't need a man to rescue her from her problems, and having a man didn't make her any less of a strong, independent woman.

And that's what I want from Moana. The world is already leaning forward and paying attention to the fact that she is a princess of color, and that she is a princess without a love interest. (The first of her kind, considering that Elsa of Frozen was a queen not a princess, and Merida of Brave had multiple love interests that she simply wasn't interested in.) If Disney can reward our attention and our interest with a story that doesn't treat the 16-year-old Moana as an undesirable being to potential age-appropriate romantic partners � a story that makes her neither an exotic siren or a sexless spiritual healer, two things Pacific Islanders are commonly portrayed as in media � then Moana could be the most progressive Disney film that it has ever been our pleasure to witness.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 22:26

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Maui also gets killed by being eaten by a toothy vagina in mythology but I don't see anyone complaining about them changing that!

# ? Aug 5, 2016 22:31

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Macaluso posted:

Maui also gets killed by being eaten by a toothy vagina in mythology but I don't see anyone complaining about them changing that!

Well hurry up, if you want to get outrage dibs you gotta move fast. This is the internet age.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 22:32

Das Boo: Jun 9, 2011; There was a GHOST here.
It's gone now.

I didn't register Maui so much as "fat" as a wall of a man. He'd be a kickass linebacker.

# ? Aug 5, 2016 22:55

Schwarzwald: Jul 27, 2004; Don't Blink

Macaluso posted:

Maui also gets killed by being eaten by a toothy vagina in mythology but I don't see anyone complaining about them changing that!

They need something to save for the sequel.

# ? Aug 6, 2016 01:22

resurgam40: Jul 22, 2007; Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

Das Boo posted:

I didn't register Maui so much as "fat" as a wall of a man. He'd be a kickass linebacker.

Same, but even if he was, isn't the character in question a shapeshifter? Seems a bit odd to take offense at a form he doesn't have all the time.

# ? Aug 6, 2016 14:47

Grogquock: May 2, 2009

"Many people have come out to defend Disney on the appearance of Moana. Designer Louie Mantia pointed out that several Disney characters are portrayed as overweight like the Genie from Aladdin or Phil from Hercules. "

How in the holy gently caress could Genie be considered overweight? His chest to waist ratio probably beats out the princesses.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 04:54

Unmature: May 9, 2008

Purposely haven't watched the Moana trailer online so I could see it on the big screen first. It played before Pete's Dragon last night. The first of many times I teared up over those two hours.

Grogquock posted:

"Many people have come out to defend Disney on the appearance of Moana. Designer Louie Mantia pointed out that several Disney characters are portrayed as overweight like the Genie from Aladdin or Phil from Hercules. "

How in the holy gently caress could Genie be considered overweight? His chest to waist ratio probably beats out the princesses.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 16:09

Grogquock: May 2, 2009

Of course in that scene he's shape changing and joking about getting "fat" because Aladdin is apparently smaller than his last master. I suppose they do share that shape changing element! Though Maui probably won't be doing anachronistic impressions.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 17:48

ungulateman: Apr 18, 2012; pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

Genie isn't 'fat' in the sense of being actually unhealthily overweight, he's 'fat' in the sense than he's a big guy (for Aladdin).

Imagine four fat Disney characters on the edge of a cliff. The Genie falls off, the others roll down a space, and the Genie falls back into the line. Maui works the same way.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 03:37

Unmature: May 9, 2008

He's certainly phat.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 22:52

Mazed: Oct 23, 2010

There'd probably be more cause for complaint if Maui's design was typical chiseled superhero style.
Frankly I'm surprised they resisted the temptation to just make him look like a cartoon version of his own VA. :v:

Either way though, it's supremely pleasing that he's got the super tattooed look going. It's about drat time CG animators took advantage of their craft in such a way, where the need to draw every frame prevented something that elaborate from being a regular onscreen presence. Hell, if it were culturally accurate (it probably isn't), they ought to have done the very same thing with the heroine. Just dedicate a whole sequence to her trying to get hers to do comedy routines like his does.

# ? Aug 20, 2016 04:15

TheBigBudgetSequel: Nov 25, 2008; It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

In regards to Aladdin the animated series and it turning characters into other things, I vividly remembering an episode where Aladdin became a shark and thinking it was the dumbest poo poo I'd ever seen.

# ? Aug 21, 2016 05:17

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

I guess the issue is in part that there's no way to please everyone (although trying to think of a Disney princess film that caused no upset is an interesting thought experiment in its own right). Oh and yeah watch the clip of shark Aladdin it's hilarious.

# ? Aug 21, 2016 16:05

The Bloop: Jul 5, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Thank you for posting, Pick.

Pictured: Disney non-princess cosplaying as Disney Princess in show with less-bad-than-average body proportions, a POC heroine, TNG voice actors out the wazoo, and possibly-confusing-to-developing-minds implied interspecies romance.

# ? Aug 22, 2016 15:39

Corek: May 11, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Trent posted:

Thank you for posting, Pick.

Pictured: Disney non-princess cosplaying as Disney Princess in show with less-bad-than-average body proportions, a POC heroine, TNG voice actors out the wazoo, and possibly-confusing-to-developing-minds implied interspecies romance.

So did those gargoyles just walk around all the time in front of everyone

# ? Aug 22, 2016 18:08

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

Corek posted:

So did those gargoyles just walk around all the time in front of everyone

No, it's Halloween, that's why she's dressed up and he can be out.

# ? Aug 22, 2016 18:32

davidspackage: May 16, 2007; Nap Ghost

Trent posted:

Thank you for posting, Pick.

Pictured: Disney non-princess cosplaying as Disney Princess in show with less-bad-than-average body proportions, a POC heroine, TNG voice actors out the wazoo, and possibly-confusing-to-developing-minds implied interspecies romance.

I've never seen an episode of Gargoyles, but I'm guessing just after this screenshot, a surfer kid walks by saying " Whoooaah, totally freaky costume, dude" and then the gargoyle is all sad.

# ? Aug 24, 2016 07:58

resurgam40: Jul 22, 2007; Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

davidspackage posted:

I've never seen an episode of Gargoyles, but I'm guessing just after this screenshot, a surfer kid walks by saying " Whoooaah, totally freaky costume, dude" and then the gargoyle is all sad.

That particular one would not be sad, no, just rather bemused. One of the younger Gargoyles might be disappointed, but might also be amused, depending on their mood. And there's one Gargoyle who wouldn't be anything, because mucking about outside is not proper. Gargoyles=\ TMNT.

# ? Aug 24, 2016 12:20

Grifter: Jul 24, 2003; I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

Pick posted:

Now the obvious retort is that people can differentiate fantasy and reality, but:

1. Can children differentiate these images from reality?
2. Can anyone actually differentiate fantasy from reality as well as we claim? Isn't 99% of advertising selling people on what they know are actually falsehoods?
3. Is it right to present this fantasy ideal, even if people can identify it as a fantasy?

Also, is it stylistically necessary? Or do we just expect it and react well to it because we are conditioned by pre-existing media? If we went back and re-animated all these films and made the Princesses more realistically proportioned, would children who had never seen the original versions like the new versions less? (We'll assume Bratz Babies doesn't exist in this universe either.)

Most women with eating disorders discuss or mention specific instances that set them off, for example Twiggy's idol status in the late 60s.

Parents, what's your take?

I'm a parent of a daughter. I feel pretty anxious about it. Our society definitely stuffs a lot of unrealistic body expectations into women and the princess model has to bear some culpability for that. I also worry about the values expressed in the princess movies, although the more recent ones are obviously better, but even as recently as Aladdin Jasmine has very little agency and pretty much exists to be desired and rescued. Even the character arc she has of wanting to break free from her surroundings is mostly there to explain why she would be interested in someone like Aladdin. I also worry that the princess culture may be pretty much inescapable in that if I go out of my way to have my daughter not experience the media empire that Disney has built then there may be an inevitable social cost for her. I feel like my choices are to either participate in a culture that I worry is toxic or by avoiding that culture have a net result of making my daughter excluded and unhappy. I'm a guy though so I may be worrying too much - how universal are these movies/tv shows/whatever for the experience of girls growing up?

Grifter fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 24, 2016

# ? Aug 24, 2016 15:42

Hedrigall: Mar 27, 2008; by vyelkin

This thread is really good, Pick. Just caught up.

Disney seems to be going for some size-positive male characters lately, with Baymax, Clawhauser and Maui coming to mind.

# ? Aug 27, 2016 17:47

Sinners Sandwich: Jan 4, 2012; Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

If anyone needs a good topic to write about maybe Disney Princess actors in Disney World? I'm not too good at research and writing to make that interesting but I think there's some ground there to tap

# ? Sep 11, 2016 22:17

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Sinners Sandwich posted:

If anyone needs a good topic to write about maybe Disney Princess actors in Disney World? I'm not too good at research and writing to make that interesting but I think there's some ground there to tap

"Happy Heart" used to be code for "retarded person."

# ? Sep 11, 2016 22:40

Sinners Sandwich: Jan 4, 2012; Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

I was part of that group of children so if I did went to Disney land as a kid I'd probably have a loving ball because like hell there told to avoid Happy Heart children

# ? Sep 12, 2016 01:57

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 01:13

Macaluso: Sep 23, 2005; I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Sinners Sandwich posted:

If anyone needs a good topic to write about maybe Disney Princess actors in Disney World? I'm not too good at research and writing to make that interesting but I think there's some ground there to tap

Elsa looks loving terrible every time and they've never made any effort to fix this. I don't understand why they can't get her look right. Cosplayers have no problem???

Ana always looks accurate

# ? Sep 12, 2016 02:05

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Disney Princesses & Upcoming Film "Moana" (2016)

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