Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
What's war good for anyway?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

gohuskies posted:

Have you guys heard about Wojtek the bear???

Sounds interesting, please tell us more!

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Raenir Salazar posted:

Should we go about compiling (a) a list of notable posters and their contributions

We already have one.


Also, I sent a goldmining request to Grand Fromage.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Grand Fromage posted:

I moved your old nerd poo poo thread to the dumb goldmine for nerds to read, spergs. :wotwot:

:tipshat: m'mod

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Tevery Best posted:

I have extracted whatever posts of mine from the old thread I think had value and put them in a Google Doc for easy access. I've even edited some of them.

As for continuing the series: I want to. But first, I started to write my MA thesis. This took up a lot of my free time (and also meant I was around the university a lot less often). A month or so ago I have finished it (available, in English, here, if you are curious ) and successfully defended it, which means I am no longer a student and thus cannot check out books from the University library, and there simply are no other good libraries anywhere near (aside from the National Library, which does not allow checkouts either). This means that the only way for me to continue working with a similar level of detail to what I did before would be to work directly within the Library, which is almost an hour's drive away, and I am gainfully employed now, which makes this quite impracticable.

But I want to finish what I started and I will certainly aim to do so, once I figure out a solution.

goatse mentioned, a+

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

P-Mack posted:

The strong post what they wish and the weak read what they must.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

almost every single general of this war looks like he's going harrumph in his pictures
try it yourself, look one of them up

at some point roman emperors also wanted to look grumpy in their statues

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nenonen posted:

re: radios, it's again a broad question but here's a broad answer. Americans had lots of radios, everyone else not so much. In later stages of WW2 you could expect handie talkies to be found at platoon level all over the US organization. The range of it wasn't great, but sufficient for below company communicating. They also had more portable wireless sets at other levels. Commonwealth I don't know, presumably a little better than most combatants thanks to L&L.

Finnish army, like most others, relied heavily on field telephones. This had disadvantages, but also some advantages due to which landlines are still used when radio silence is necessary. Portable radios were largely reserved for mobile forward observers (artillery general V.P. Nenonen playing an important role in developing this capability, again) and long range patrols.

The first patrol radio, Kyynel (Teardrop) was just a transmitter, which was then joined with a separate receiver unit, Töpö. The patrols would listen for special messages read at pre-defined times on Finnish Broadcasting Company's channel and send their own coded reports in Morse. Finland was advanced in radio intelligence during WW2, and when these long range patrols were being chased by Soviet security forces the GHQ could sometimes give them real time details on the movements of their pursuers. Soviet radio discipline was pretty lax outside maskirovka operations ordered by higher ups, from what I have learned.

Yeah, eg. at Suomussalmi and Raate Soviets didn't even try to encrypt their few radios' messages.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

they were not pre industrialized societies, op

what are you shortening to 'op'?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Wrt. folk etymologies, guns that are made only to wound, and stuff; many teachers, drill sergeants, profs etc. don't know poo poo.

Eg. my religious education teacher told the class how the medieval warfare was clean and fair, because the knights were Christians.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

The anti-spall face masks are terrifying.

always post pics!



Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nenonen posted:

I'm just saddened that Germans never completed the Großkampfwagen. I'm sure it would have changed the course of the war had the army not been stabbed in the back!






drat!

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

NLJP posted:

Btw well done new thread. Best tank chat in a real long time! I love these threads but the refresh has done a lot of good. Thanks all :) On milhist notes, I'm currently living in a small hamlet on a small island in southern sweden based on what used to be the residence of the official soldier of the commune.

How old is it? And ofc, post pics!

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nenonen posted:

To be fair, Soviets had also believed that their Bistro Tanks could run through the entire strategic depth of the enemy front and crush or run circles around everything stepping in their way. But they were smart enough to drop the concept much sooner than Brits did - but this can be attributed to them actually having their equivalent of Cromwell already in mass production (it also helped that most of the ~4000 Betkas were lost in 1941).

Sending 'volunteers' to fight in foreign civil wars and having little brawls with your neighbours clearly helps you to stay ahead in war technology, Russians knew it then and they know it today! :v:

BTs are one of my favourite armoured vehicles in bideo james because they are so drat fast. M18 Hellcats too. What was the fastest armoured ground vehicle of the war?


M18 Hellcat


BT-7

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Aug 12, 2016

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

spectralent posted:

That reminds me: Does the concept of pure infantry exist anymore? I'm aware infantry do still train to march and actually do marches (especially in asymmetric war where stuff like "the people we need you to attack are up this mountain, which is impassable to vehicles" happens), but if WW3 ever kicked off and there was peer-state tier conflicts going on, do we have any militaries that still envisage a significant role to walking, or is a BMP or M113 or whatever basically assumed to be standard for modern infantry?

Eg. Finland has many reservist local defense units equipped with jack poo poo vehicles.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
laconian if

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

NLJP posted:

Not a lot of old stuff other than undated dry stone walls sadly. The walls are rad though but nothing milhist related. Might have a wander and take some pics of the rad landscape though but doesn't seem relevant to the thread.

Edit: well, we might have found some stone tools when we were working in the garden and there is viking age and medieval archaology around but mostly in museums now.

Is it closer to which one of these:


Sveaborg Fortress' Commandant's mansion house.


Soldier's croft.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

ArchangeI posted:

We might get criminals and slackers, but by God, they will be smart criminals and slackers!

Ie. good jägers.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Kemper Boyd posted:

The Finnish infantry brigades are supposed to use tractors, trucks and buses for strategic mobility though. Besides, the only thing they're good for is for being a force-in-being anyway since they have almost no AA or AT gear.

Infantry Brigade 80 has tractors and trailers, but I was speaking of paikallispuolustusjoukot, ie. battalion and company sized local defense units.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

love the movie, disappointed by the battle scenes
the outfits are choice, the makeup is correct as far as i remember, the music is Real Cool

what was disappointing about the battle scenes?

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Aug 15, 2016

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SeanBeansShako posted:

Well, IMO not enough of them.

I did like how they handled the small skirmish and Prussians in that minor siege. Also, the music in that movie is indeed loving ace. Also taught me if you marry into 18th century nobility pack the son of the previous lord off to a school/the colonies ASAP.

Same! It's one of my favourite films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbBojWrOV2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPd14JPA--M
This one is a bit edited.


e: the film isn't just about combat. everyone should watch it!

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 15, 2016

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nenonen posted:

The fuel tank is pressurized by a nitrogen tank, but a hole in the fuel tank would just spring a leak or two and the pressure would be gone in seconds with some fuel sprayed to the vicinity. The worst case scenario is the operator & terrain around him catches fire.

P.S. does anyone else think it's a pity that gunpowder became a thing before manportable flamethrowers? Just imagine - flamethrower cavalry charging a pike column!!

Grand Fromage posted:



Here's a Roman handheld flamethrower.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Admiral Snackbar posted:

What's this?!

I come back to SA after an absence of only several years to find that there's not just one, but TWO follow up threads to the original from 2010 - I'm so happy to see this thriving!

I have no hope of catching up on everything that's happened since I was here last, so I'll just pick up at the start of this iteration and try to keep up.

I just want to say that it does me good to see so many people involved in the discussion!

Welcome back, Admiral! And thanks for kicking this thing off in the first place.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Aug 17, 2016

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
haha

I'm watching a bad but entertaining documentary about Nazi supertanks. There was a funny bit about Maus tanks. Looks like you needed 2 of them for river crossing. The one on the shore would give power by cable to the one underwater.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

chitoryu12 posted:

In case anyone hasn't seen it, here's the Panther videos by Nick Moran that we were talking about earlier. It's kind of marvelous how awful the ergonomics of this tank were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xKYicir_i8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL2KO2maIkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXYRQjzZZbk

How did their awfulness compare to other tanks of the same era? I've understood that Sherman was one of the few that had good ergonomics?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

david_a posted:

Some of the recent chat about 'horses' used in WW2 made me wonder if the noble mule was being lumped in with its flashier relative. A mule is a superior pack animal compared to a horse for a number of reasons (hardier, more endurance, eats less, etc) and it seems like the better choice for dragging your gear around. From a quick search it seems that most countries used a mix of the two (the US used mules in some of the awful terrain in Italy, for example).

However, the German army seemed to use primarily horses from what I can tell. Is this just a case of equine racism with the articles I skimmed or did the Germans actually prefer Equus ferus caballus? If so, why?

Gebirgsjägers in Finland at least used them. Maybe it was more of a thing for them, and rest of the troops used draught horses?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

OwlFancier posted:

Well more I figured that it might be true because it's a contemporary source, and also because it's exactly what I would do if I was a mercenary being asked to fight other mercenaries for money.

I've read the same thing too about the mercs just pretending to fight. I wonder who wrote about it in the first place?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Foul Fowl posted:

is there a good book to read about these mercenary armies? and also about italian city state politics during that period?

The Prince. :can:

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Mr Enderby posted:

There are contemporary reports of Borderers slacking off, or switching sides, during the Anglo-Scottish wars, particularly during the Rough Wooing. Of course, those weren't professional mercenaries, and the wars were being fought over their lands, so it's not really surprising that they were just out for loot and survival.


Did any army ever use mules or donkeys as mounts? Seems like they'd be good for mounted infantry. Also a donkey in barding would be adorable.

wild asses were used to pull early chariots

i guess that mules are slow and have attitude problems, otherwise someone would have used them

probably someone has experimented with most of the animals, but only very few of them are useful

eg. swedes and soviets tried to raise moose cavalry

sorry for the bad links:

http://stockholm.headsaflamemedia.com/2014/03/08/in-the-1700s-the-swedish-cavalry-experimented-with-moose/

http://onpasture.com/2013/12/02/once-upon-a-time-we-farmed-moose/

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

aphid_licker posted:

Are we just posting MAJOR HUNKS now?

Because



This is apparently the Spanish Foreign Legion. Kinda love those uniforms.

haha

Lieutenant Laaksonen would be proud :finland:.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Here's the rest of the story: http://www.warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Owlkill posted:

Sorry to bring something up from a couple of pages back...

This is a history thread, we don't mind.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

hello Nordic friends! have you heard of this guy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsten_St%C3%A5lhandske
fendrich in GA's bodyguard in the 20s
took 35 flags personally at Wittstock

you should be very proud of him. that article is wrong though: Luetzen was a draw.

Wikipedia's 30YW articles have a slight Swedish bias.

Some bad photos from the Finnish Cavalry Museum:



A painting of Stålhandske.




His coat of arms (stålhandske = steel glove)

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Kemper Boyd posted:

He's buried in the cathedral in my hometown. His tin casket has been put on display there, along with his armor. I usually give a tour to people consisting of "this wrought iron fence is 700 years old", "here is the only queen that's been buried in Finland", "Åke Tott was a big deal and probably The Biggest Deal in Finnish history and boy did he marry well" and "Torsten Stålhandske was one of the best commanders of cav Sweden ever produced and boy did he marry well."

Also: descendants of Stålhandske still leave flowers at his chapel in the cathedral.

Didn't he die childless? Do you have good photos of his mausoleum? What does the text on it say?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Kemper Boyd posted:

Should have clarified, not direct descendants because the noble side of the family has died out. But apparently some people related to him. A tour guide told me this when I wondered about a vase of flowers in the chapel.

It's pretty hard to get decent photos or read the text on his memorial since it's behind one of those fences. If I ever have the chance, I could try to ask the staff if I could get some photos.

cool

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Was it common for 17th century generals to be childless (or just having illegit kids) because they spent all of their life campaigning?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

anecdotally, i really think so. off the top of my head,

wallenstein: one surviving child, one dead infant
pappenheim: ditto but his son was also a soldier and died in the 40s in a duel, surprising nobody
aldringen: no kids, the noble line he founded is the Clary-Aldringens, that's his sister's kids
gallas: two kids
piccolomini: three kids, all also soldiers, all died before he did. The piccolominis, like the montecuccolis, kinda all were in the military.
tilly: no kids but he's a special case, his nephew was his heir
sporck: two daughters, the noble line he founded was the Swets-Sporcks
holck: was he even married? :iiam:

can anyone give a comparatively halfassed list of anti-imperialists

Gustavus Adolphus with one daughter Christina and one bastard son Gustav, who was raised to a count by his half-sister. Btw, the cavalry museum I mentioned is in a town that was chartered by Queen Christina.

And the aforementioned Stålhandske. Kemper Boyd probably knows more.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 21, 2016

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

HEY GAL posted:

...best queen?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Kemper Boyd posted:

itym best king

Åke Tott's son, Claes Tott, was one of Christina's favorites and so bad at fuckin' the Tott line died out.

Incidentally, I think there's a relationship between infertility/male impotence and riding horses. That would explain a lot, because all of those dudes spent a ton of their time on horseback. Dunno where I read this and if this is bullshit.

What about Genghis Khan?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5