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purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Ferrule posted:

Same applies to Year One.

Year One is good though.

It's under a post called "recommended reading", I'm not going to recommend people read comics I think are bad. I know I'm in the minority but Year One is the only Miller Batman book I can tolerate anymore. And even then Toxxupation is right, Zero Year is a better story.

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Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich

Travis343 posted:

Year One is good though.

It's under a post called "recommended reading", I'm not going to recommend people read comics I think are bad. I know I'm in the minority but Year One is the only Miller Batman book I can tolerate anymore. And even then Toxxupation is right, Zero Year is a better story.

Zero Year went by far too long and as usual, Snyder failed to stick the landing. It is a decent story but no way is better than Year One.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

Zero Year went by far too long and as usual, Snyder failed to stick the landing. It is a decent story but no way is better than Year One.

I agree with this instinctively, but I was biased towards Snyder's Batman already. I should really read the two back to back sometime for a fair comparison.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
Why do you think The Dark Knight Returns is a bad comic? Outside of the after-effects I mean. Overrated is worthless, but actually bad is something I'd like to read about.

Zero Year is great, but I don't even think Snyder would say it's better than Year One.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

SonicRulez posted:

Why do you think The Dark Knight Returns is a bad comic? Outside of the after-effects I mean. Overrated is worthless, but actually bad is something I'd like to read about.

Zero Year is great, but I don't even think Snyder would say it's better than Year One.

Nah, he wouldn't. But I doubt most writers would say that about their own work.

I don't like DKR because honestly, it's a sickeningly fascist story. People say Miller went nuts into hard-line right-wing reactionary mode after 9/11 but honestly it's all right here, simmering just below the surface. Anybody who leans liberal at all gets turned into a ridiculous strawman, for example Carrie's hippie parents who criticize police brutality are neglectful burnouts who apparently smoke so much weed they forget they have a child. Miller's uniquely (at the time it was unique, at least) brutal Batman is a 'rebirth of the American fighting spirit', and people who aren't okay with putting petty criminals in wheelchairs are framed as weak-willed crybabies who can't stomach what obviously needs to be done. It seems like the story wants to shine a light on the ease with which readers will accept brutal, vigilante violence when it's framed as a superhero story, but it quickly becomes obvious the story wants you to revel in this poo poo. DKR is Batman as a relic from an older time, as Miller obviously believes, a better time, a time when the undesirable elements of society were excised from the world rather than being coddled by a bunch of psychobabble-spouting TV personalities. The conflict comes from this relic smashing into the then-modern day of the 80s, a time of 'self-esteem' and 'political correctness' that simply cannot handle Batman doing what needs to be done to clean up society. And Batman is shown as being right every single time - the New Age feel-good fluff of Dr. Wolper can't heal Harvey Dent or the Joker, and young people are little more than violent animals who need to be led to a new master when their old alpha is put down. Their methods aren't bad - they're just hurting the wrong people. Comic books have always flirted with these concepts - Batman at his core is breaking the law to force his version of 'right' onto the world - but Miller's deliberately politicized it and made it as much like the 'real' world of the 1980s as he possibly can. It's impossible not to apply this story to the real world as it was when it came out and movies like Death Wish were doing the same thing in other media.


Yes, it is a very well-made comic book. The storytelling is top-notch, Miller was at the top of his game in the 80s. Lynn Varley and Klaus Janson don't get nearly enough credit for her role in the look of DKR (check out Grant Morrison's Gothic, which Janson illustrated, to see just how much he added to DKR independent of Miller) and the colors are excellent. I think the art devolves into almost formless scribbling about halfway through, but Varley's colors hold it together. But the story it's telling is pretty repulsive.

edited to correct: Klaus Janson illustrated Batman: Gothic.

purple death ray fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Aug 14, 2016

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Snyder has been on record as saying that he considers Zero Year an inferior work to Year One, and that he specifically went out of his way to make it as unlike Year One as possible outside of "Yes, father, I shall become a bat".

I don't agree. Having read both stories virtually back-to-back earlier this year (I read Year One, then all of Morrison's Batman run up to N52, then Zero Year through the entirety of the N52 Batbooks) I found Year One less of a story and more of a disparate collection of scenes. Now, admittedly, those scenes are some of the most powerful and iconic moments of all Batman-related media, what with, again, "Yes, father, I shall become a bat" or the dinner scene, but outside of that it's basically a story about Bruce Wayne coming back to Gotham and being Batman as hell. There's no real conflict, it's all basic Miller-patented male power fantasy. The arcing for Bruce in Year One is very loose, and as people have aforementioned Year One is more of a Gordon story anyways (especially considering Gordon goes through a much deeper and more complete character arc then Batman does.

There's also no real villain in Year One. It's a very eighties book, where the villain is Crime and the institutions that Enable Crime, so it's got a more unfocused feel in direct contrast to Zero Year, which has in my opinion one of the single best Batman villains of this century in Snyder's Riddler. I love how he wrote the Riddler, I love that he turned a goofball who I absolutely hated due to the Arkham games (where he's a literal annoyance) into one of the single most intimidating threats in Batman's career, I love his plan, I love its resolution. It's just fantastic.

But even beyond that Zero Year really arcs Bruce in a way Year One never really does. Bruce Wayne at the beginning of Zero Year is a loving rear end in a top hat, and the ways in which he alienates and comes into direct conflict with everyone around him but especially Gordon and Pennyworth makes his eventual character arc feel totally earned. From beginning to end of Zero Year Bruce Wayne becomes Batman, as opposed to Bruce Wayne stepping off the plane at the beginning of Year One and he's Batman.

Also, the art. I consider Greg Capullo to be the single best artist Batman has had. He totally knocks it out of the park with his Bruce Wayne design, especially Young Bruce where he conveys how he's this really powerful but still really impressionable and angry kid consumed with vengeance, and his art combined with whoever does the coloring on Zero Year makes Gotham into this psychedelic crazy nightmare where blimps and poo poo can swoop out of the sky and the sky is a crazy shade of neon. It's awesome. I love the art direction of Snyder Batman, especially Zero Year, especially in direct contrast to Frank Miller's noir portrayal of Gotham where everyone's feels silhouetted constantly.

Also there's a couple of parts of Year One that don't look great thirty years removed, in other words basically everything about Catwoman's/the child prostitute arc.

Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!
Look, you ask anyone to name the top 3 Batman books and its Year One, Killing Joke, DKR. Period.

Just because you hate two of the three doesn't change the status quo.

Is DKR outdated? Yeah. Is Miller a wacko? Indeed. Is it still a drat fine comic that changed not just the character but the industry and the format? Absolutely.

Same for Killing Joke. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a go-to for Batman reading.

I love the Batman Black & White books and I love the two Batman/Grendel crossovers. I like that weird run in the 80's-90's with KGBeast and NKVDemon as goofy as they were. I think the Batman/Swamp-Thing story arc was one of the best things ever. I'm also partial to the Knightfall arc and think the Zero Year run was really good.

But I'll be damned if I recommend any of those to anyone before I recommend Year One, DKR, and Killing Joke. I mean come on.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Oh and to finish off the Hot Takes, Dick Grayson is the best Batman.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Toxxupation posted:

Oh and to finish off the Hot Takes, Dick Grayson is the best Batman.

Terry. :colbert:

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Ferrule posted:

Look, you ask anyone to name the top 3 Batman books and its Year One, Killing Joke, DKR. Period.


If you asked anyone to name the top three most popular Batman books, sure. Nobody's debating their popularity nor their influence. But that's not the question. Three best, if you were to poll BSS right now, Batman stories would only have Year One on that list probably, with one of the other two probably being R.I.P. and the last being a true tossup between stuff like Knightfall/Black Glove/Inc/Black Mirror/Laughing Fish. I could go on. There's been a ton of pushback against TKJ and TDKR - the former I consider a failure on DC's part in taking a one-off and making it canon despite Moore's wishes and intentions, but TDKR deserves to be raked through the critical coals a bit. I think it's a weak story that strawmans Superman to make a point, on top of its art (which I find straight-up ugly) and as aforementioned muddied plotting where people can rightly infer that TDKR Batman is a kiler because he's so grotesquely violent.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Ferrule posted:

Look, you ask anyone to name the top 3 Batman books and its Year One, Killing Joke, DKR. Period.

Just because you hate two of the three doesn't change the status quo.

Is DKR outdated? Yeah. Is Miller a wacko? Indeed. Is it still a drat fine comic that changed not just the character but the industry and the format? Absolutely.

Same for Killing Joke. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a go-to for Batman reading.

I love the Batman Black & White books and I love the two Batman/Grendel crossovers. I like that weird run in the 80's-90's with KGBeast and NKVDemon as goofy as they were. I think the Batman/Swamp-Thing story arc was one of the best things ever. I'm also partial to the Knightfall arc and think the Zero Year run was really good.

But I'll be damned if I recommend any of those to anyone before I recommend Year One, DKR, and Killing Joke. I mean come on.

I think what you mean is, you ask anybody to name the top 3 most popular Batman books and that's what they'll name. Sorry, I don't take it for granted that these are The Best Ones and any discussion about Batman has to acknowledge how great they are. I guess you would recommend what you consider 'important' or 'significant' comics to people. I would recommend comics I thought were particularly good, or comics that nailed the personality of the character the best. I think there are mountains of Batman comics better than DKR and Killing Joke. I've said throughout this thread I'm obviously in the minority there, but that's how it is.

It's also incredibly boring to talk about the same three Batman stories since 1988, so I would seriously, 100% rather hear about those weird 80s-90s comics you love. Tell me about the poo poo you're uniquely passionate about. Everybody knows about Frank Miller's stuff, not everybody knows how great Batman/Grendel was. Let's talk about that stuff instead.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax
The AV Club did a great rundown of DKR awhile back.


Travis343 posted:

It's also incredibly boring to talk about the same three Batman stories since 1988, so I would seriously, 100% rather hear about those weird 80s-90s comics you love. Tell me about the poo poo you're uniquely passionate about. Everybody knows about Frank Miller's stuff, not everybody knows how great Batman/Grendel was. Let's talk about that stuff instead.

Don't forget Strange Apparitions! That's some good poo poo I never see brought up often. Also: we need to talk about the Silver Age more.

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich

Travis343 posted:

It's also incredibly boring to talk about the same three Batman stories since 1988, so I would seriously, 100% rather hear about those weird 80s-90s comics you love. Tell me about the poo poo you're uniquely passionate about. Everybody knows about Frank Miller's stuff, not everybody knows how great Batman/Grendel was. Let's talk about that stuff instead.

Unless is Red Hood :v:

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

Dark Knight Strikes Again is basically all the worst things about Dark Knight Returns magnified by a hundred with utterly awful art and coloring.

That was a book where:

Carrie Kelly for some reason becomes Catgirl and has roller blades
Superman and Wonder Woman gently caress so hard it shakes the planet and causes tidal waves (that was right after a scene where Wonder Woman described herself as a prize for Superman to forcefully claim)
Practically every page is covered in talking heads spouting off about nonsense
Batman shows up at Luthor's place, cuts him up, and then just leaves
Dick Grayson has somehow become an immortal Joker who goes around killing other superheroes
Frank Miller makes gay jokes about heroes he doesn't like (Hawk and Dove for instance)
There's some sort of sub plot about sexy cosplay with girls dressing up like female superheroes

It's such an amazing mess of a comic, and I have no idea how Miller got to make a third one after that one.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

Unless is Red Hood :v:

You talk about Red Hood more often than this entire forum posts about DKR though?

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
I see. I wasn't born in the 80's and I'm not really all that political, so I guess that just flew over my head. As you said, I thought the storytelling was really good and it's got some of my favorite story beats. It could probably do with another once over, but I don't imagine my opinion would change much. Still, that was a worthwhile read, it's good to be well-rounded.

Re: Year Zero, I agree that it's got really pretty art. I can't really say having a concrete villain makes Zero Year particularly better or worse. All-Star Superman doesn't really have one either and that story is amazing to me. I mean sure Lex is there, but Year One has its own villains too. From my perspective, I can kinda see a duality here. In Zero Year we get a character arc for Batman since he is the main character. Things grow up around him. In Year One, it seemed pretty obvious to me that Gordon is the main character and thus he gets the character arc. Year One is much more about setting the tone of Gotham for future stories and showing us how it transitioned from mob stuff to capes than it is about showing us how Bruce went from playboy to vigilante. I don't think that's inherently a bad thing though, just a different one. I also like Arkham Riddler cause he makes me laugh, but obviously that doesn't mean anything.

Remind me, Zero Year also includes the story with the bone monster, right? That's in between the Riddler actually taking over the city and the Joker stuff. I didn't like that very much. It's debatable whether or not it's worse than prostitute Catwoman though, fair enough.

Toxxupation posted:

where people can rightly infer that TDKR Batman is a kiler because he's so grotesquely violent.

I follow that it strawmans Superman (because a fair few Bat writers never show Clark any respect), but the only way to infer that TDKR Batman is a murderer is to misread the story. And that's not on Miller's writing at all. You have to blatantly ignore several story beats. I mean I've seen the argument before, but it's full of more bullshit than "Batman kills Joker at the end of TKJ" by a mile.

Toxxupation posted:

Oh and to finish off the Hot Takes, Dick Grayson is the best Batman.

Well, I find this reasonable if noting else. That's basically in-universe canon.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

I just remembered, I really adore The Doom That Came to Gotham.

One of my favorite DC Elseworld stories, since I love Cthulhu poo poo in general.

The art's pretty good, especially the design of the Eldritch beings



Also Jason Todd dies in it too.

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.

Roth posted:

Also, I think the current Spoiler costume is growing on me. I still prefer the old version though.



I prefer the new costume because it has the half-mask. I never felt like the expressionless full-face mask fit a character that's supposed to be as outgoing and expressive as Steph.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

Darth Nat posted:

I prefer the new costume because it has the half-mask. I never felt like the expressionless full-face mask fit a character that's supposed to be as outgoing and expressive as Steph.

I mostly like it for how it was drawn in Cassandra's series



They got pretty expressive with it for something that's just two eyes.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST

I don't know where its head is at and that is scaring me.

WickedHate
Aug 1, 2013

by Lowtax

Roth posted:

Dark Knight Strikes Again is basically all the worst things about Dark Knight Returns magnified by a hundred with utterly awful art and coloring.

That was a book where:

Carrie Kelly for some reason becomes Catgirl and has roller blades
Superman and Wonder Woman gently caress so hard it shakes the planet and causes tidal waves (that was right after a scene where Wonder Woman described herself as a prize for Superman to forcefully claim)
Practically every page is covered in talking heads spouting off about nonsense
Batman shows up at Luthor's place, cuts him up, and then just leaves
Dick Grayson has somehow become an immortal Joker who goes around killing other superheroes
Frank Miller makes gay jokes about heroes he doesn't like (Hawk and Dove for instance)
There's some sort of sub plot about sexy cosplay with girls dressing up like female superheroes

It's such an amazing mess of a comic, and I have no idea how Miller got to make a third one after that one.

I love DKSA's art but the story totally fucks it up.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

SonicRulez posted:


Remind me, Zero Year also includes the story with the bone monster, right? That's in between the Riddler actually taking over the city and the Joker stuff.

Yeah, that's Zero Year. What I like the most about Zero Year is that it's not the Joker - it's the leader of the Red Hood gang, and that dynamic makes for a more interesting character that isn't saddled with all the insane and awful baggage that Joker now has.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong per se with Miller's approach of having a more-or-less villain-absent story in YO, but to me it all sort of folds into how Year One is mostly an excuse for Miller to craft a bunch of scenes of Batman being a badass. And I also just don't agree with the supposition that Year One's a Gordon story, considering that again Miller drapes Batman with all these centerpiece sequences like the dinner party or the now-iconic flashback or "Yes, father, I shall become a bat" that all seems to build to "This is a story that tells the audience how Bruce Wayne became Batman". And the answer is, more or less, "He took a plane back to Gotham and immediately started punching dudes". There's no real conflict or tribulations there beyond Batman getting the poo poo beat out of him early on, which, even that is more so he can be a badass.

Actually if I'm being 100% honest the best part of Year One is that it enables issue six of Return of Bruce Wayne, a story I otherwise find too convoluted for its own good, to happen.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I remember zero year, it was okay but I lost interest and checked out. It was like it was NML without anything that made that interesting.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
That seems like quibbling. It is Joker, it's just a well-written Joker. In fact, I would argue that a fair bit of the story is working to establish that he was crazy before he ever hit the acid. He was always The Joker bubbling underneath the surface.

monkeu
Jun 1, 2000

by Reene
Scott Snyder is loving obsessed with the Joker. He's specifically writing a series around Batman's other villains at the moment but he's already telegraphed that it's all culminating in a big Joker reveal in the end. Give it a loving rest.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

SonicRulez posted:

That seems like quibbling. It is Joker, it's just a well-written Joker. In fact, I would argue that a fair bit of the story is working to establish that he was crazy before he ever hit the acid. He was always The Joker bubbling underneath the surface.

I would actually say this is the weakest part of Zero Year. I don't find Red Hood One well-written at all, specifically because he's already the Joker. Not only do I think that's a narrative cop-out but Snyder's Joker is consistently awful, and I did not appreciate having him around giving these huge page-spanning puppetmaster speeches in what is an otherwise excellent story.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Let's all dunk on how loving terrible Batman Annual 1 from N52 was. gently caress that's a terrible comic. Snyder's Mr. Freeze is the worst.

monkeu
Jun 1, 2000

by Reene

Toxxupation posted:

Let's all dunk on how loving terrible Batman Annual 1 from N52 was. gently caress that's a terrible comic. Snyder's Mr. Freeze is the worst.

He's pretty loving edgy though.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
I want to go there with you guys, but I just didn't hate it that much. I didn't love it, but I thought it was a fine comic. I've seen Heart of Ice. I played the DLC of it in Arkham Origins. I saw him in Batman Beyond. I know Mr. Freeze's story beats like the back of my hand by now. Doing a complete swerve was at least something fresh. I'm big on "different =/= good" and that may hold true for the story, but it just didn't bother me like I know it does so many others. I could be off-base, but I think I got out of Batman Annual #1 what other people got out of Iron Man 3.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

SonicRulez posted:

I want to go there with you guys, but I just didn't hate it that much. I didn't love it, but I thought it was a fine comic. I've seen Heart of Ice. I played the DLC of it in Arkham Origins. I saw him in Batman Beyond. I know Mr. Freeze's story beats like the back of my hand by now. Doing a complete swerve was at least something fresh. I'm big on "different =/= good" and that may hold true for the story, but it just didn't bother me like I know it does so many others. I could be off-base, but I think I got out of Batman Annual #1 what other people got out of Iron Man 3.

They didn't have to change the origin, just maybe tell a story that isn't an origin though. I agree everybody knows the Heart of Ice story but it's not like their only options for a Mr. Freeze story were a binary "Do Heart of Ice again" vs. "Completely change the character with a bizarre, tone-deaf new origin story".

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
They could've done another Mr. Freeze story, but I can't think of any that have been good and did not follow the same beats as Heart of Ice. I'm just saying they had a choice between keeping the old Freeze and making a new one. I'm in favor of the latter. I don't really see what's so tone-deaf about it, the new character fits right in with New 52 Batman's Rogues.

pubic works project
Jan 28, 2005

No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

Ferrule posted:

I like that weird run in the 80's-90's with KGBeast and NKVDemon as goofy as they were.

I was just re-reading these issues! Loved them.

They were among some of the first Batman issues I owned. My dad bought them for me when I was a kid.

pubic works project
Jan 28, 2005

No Decepticon in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.

I'll loving fight you right now.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

SonicRulez posted:

They could've done another Mr. Freeze story, but I can't think of any that have been good and did not follow the same beats as Heart of Ice. I'm just saying they had a choice between keeping the old Freeze and making a new one. I'm in favor of the latter. I don't really see what's so tone-deaf about it, the new character fits right in with New 52 Batman's Rogues.

I've gone off on this before, but overall the New 52 homogenizes the rogues into a bunch of insane killers whose only real difference is the gimmicky way they kill people. Mr. Freeze goes from being a person a lot of people could probably empathize with, despite his obvious issues, to being another Crazy Guy Who Kills People. He is different from the other Crazy Guys Who Kill People, only because he kills them with a freeze gun, as opposed to mind-control hats, or poison that makes your face into a smile, or whatever. I guess it does make him fit in with the New 52 rogues but that's just because the rest of them are also really badly written.

purple death ray fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Aug 14, 2016

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST
I agree with all of that. That just means that you didn't like it though, not that it was tone deaf. I would think that in the particularly good Bat stories, you're meant to empathize with most of his villains, because they're mentally ill and need help. Harvey, Ivy, Freeze, Harley, Jason, the newly face Clayface. The New 52 didn't want to do that though. And since there are very good N52 Batman stories, I can't say that it is inherently wrong for taking that stand.

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?

Yeah, I loving hated DKR, for many of the reasons stated, and turning Batman into a Bat-hypocrite, and I just wasn't a fan of the art and I hated the TV interviews that were a half page of talking heads over and over again. That said, I did like Carrie Kelly, and that scene at the beginning where Bruce is channel surfing and Zorro comes on. I'm also not as fond of Year One as most people either, but I'd still call it good.

Roth posted:

Also, I think the current Spoiler costume is growing on me. I still prefer the old version though.



Roth posted:

I just remembered, I really adore The Doom That Came to Gotham.

One of my favorite DC Elseworld stories, since I love Cthulhu poo poo in general.

The art's pretty good, especially the design of the Eldritch beings



Also Jason Todd dies in it too.

100% agree on both points. The Doom that Came to Gotham was one of my first comics and I still like it.

As for my top three Batman comics, I'd probably say Batman vs. Predator, Arkham Asylum, and either The Killing Joke or Batman and the Monster Men. Outside of Bats himself, I like Steph, Cass and Azrael.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Sean Murphy (Punk Rock Jesus, Tokyo Ghost) is DC exclusive for two years and working on his own Batman comic after All-Star.
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/764609884205813760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/764609950266040320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/764610049989894146?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/764610146588909569?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/764610317762588672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

If I have read Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and Batman Incorporated, what is the best way to proceed with Morrison's bat-universe? I'm also specifically wondering if there's anything that covers Bruce getting thrown back in time or whatever at the end of Crisis.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Ryoshi posted:

If I have read Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and Batman Incorporated, what is the best way to proceed with Morrison's bat-universe? I'm also specifically wondering if there's anything that covers Bruce getting thrown back in time or whatever at the end of Crisis.

That's Batman and Robin and Return of Bruce Wayne. They take place before Inc.
Then there's Time and The Batman which went back to fill in some stuff between RIP and Final Crisis, and finally, a second series of Batman Inc.

You also missed this stuff before RIP https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Son-New-Grant-Morrison/dp/1401244025/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1471141392&sr=8-2&keywords=batman+son+of

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 14, 2016

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redbackground
Sep 24, 2007

BEHOLD!
OPTIC BLAST!
Grimey Drawer

Ryoshi posted:

If I have read Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and Batman Incorporated, what is the best way to proceed with Morrison's bat-universe? I'm also specifically wondering if there's anything that covers Bruce getting thrown back in time or whatever at the end of Crisis.

Go back and read Batman and Son/The Black Glove, and then move on with Batman and Robin/Return of Bruce Wayne. Return specifically covers Bruce fighting his way forward through time (but maybe he shouldn't! Dramatic chord!) Goddamn Hyper-Adapter, love that thing.

You basically skipped the whole beginning, and jumped a bit too far ahead after FC with Incorporated.

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