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They shouldn't have done the New 52, but if they did they should've done what Rebirth eventually made it anyways and done a fifteen year timeskip from Zero Year, especially since Bruce has always come off as a forty-year-old in his past interactions with Damian. The issue with what they did in the New 52 was their attempts to continue with Morrison's canon but with the new stakes of the N52 and specifically the canon that Snyder established, not that Batman didn't get a full wipe like N52 Superman did. The best parts of Batman have been Damian and Steph and Nightwing and Dickbat and Oracle and the shifting relationships of the extended Batfamily, and resetting everything to Kane/Finger era with Dick Grayson's Goody Two Shoes-rear end Robin would've been just as bad as the lovely as gently caress erasure of all Batgirls besides Babs and Oracle, and the weird technical elimination of Tim Drake as a Robin. But instead they tried to stuff 70 years of bullshit and canon into five, and that creates the awful erasure that ended up happening in N52 Batbooks because four Robins in five years is just absurd, so better make it so Tim Drake was never technically Robin, even though that made no loving sense. And let's revert Barbara Gordon to the one and only Batgirl even though she's the arguable worst of the Batgirls depending on how you feel about Betty Kane, eliminating Oracle which is her by-far best incarnation, but we gotta keep Killing Joke canon because we're DC and can't stop sucking TKJ's dick, so that means that the entirety of Barbara's tenure as Batgirl to being paralyzed to being rehabilitated happened within that five year span, and because we're DC and it'd make a ludicrous amount of plot absolutely absurd if during Barbara's insane amount of trauma there were a bunch of other Batgirls running around, let's straight-up eliminate Cass and Steph from existence because gently caress it, we're super bad at this whole "rebooting" thing. Because three Robins and one "Red Robin" in five years, that totally checks out, but three Batgirls? No way. And then you pile the entirety of Morrison's canon onto it, which exacerbates all the issues. Seriously, if N52 had just made it so Zero Year was fifteen years before the N52 everything could've been avoided. It's the sheer compressed time schedule that makes none of this make any loving sense, because Snyder's Bruce Wayne and Morrison's Bruce Wayne are two completely different people with two completely different life stories and priorities. Batman., Inc volume 2 having to conform to Snyder's canon obviously really pissed Morrison off because of the way the story just straight-up drops a whole bunch of characters - it does not make any loving sense, at all, whatsoever that Barbara Gordon would allow Gotham to be taken over and do absolutely nothing about it, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I may not like Batman, Incorporated, especially volume 2, but it's a story that was totally and completely hosed by a shifting editorial direction completely screwing over Morrison's overall plan and should've been left out of N52 continuity.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:29
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Actually, Snyder did find something interesting to do with Tim Drake, he created Bluebird.
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Aug 15, 2016 05:29
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The real mystery is why, when given an opportunity to correct their mistakes, Batman Rebirth #1 isn't the story of Dick Grayson reclaiming his rightful role as Batman of Gotham. Like it's still really funny that the supposed thesis of the New 52 was to bring in readers with fresh, new stories and in the process they got rid of the single most refreshing thing to happen to Batman in 25 years. Even if I hate Snyder's writing, at least Black Mirror had a more interesting tone to it than all of his New 52 stuff. King, as it turns out, is also much better at writing Dick Grayson than Bruce Wayne so far.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:03
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Cause Dick doesn't want to be Batman.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:05
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That's why he's the best Batman.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:06
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Yeah I totally disagree. I love Dickbat, and am pissed that N52 more or less pretends that Dickbat never happened (and although I love Snyder his clear dislike of writing Damian really loving sucks), but using Rebirth to put Dick back in the cowl would've sucked. The most hinky part of Grayson was the really constructed as hell way it gives Dick's secret identity back, and a full measure of "Hey, remember Morrison's Batman? That sure was good, huh? Let's go reset everything to pre-Snyder!" would've been especially intolerable. I mean, look at Batwing. Batwing loving sucked, either of them, and that was DC's halfhearted attempt at bringing back the "two Batmen" dynamic from the last volume of Batman and Robin pre-N52/Batman Incorporated.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:09
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Detective No. 27 posted:Cause Dick doesn't want to be Batman. In many ways, he's like Gohan.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:13
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WickedHate posted:In many ways, he's like Gohan. I'll bite. Name some ways. I wanna hear this.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:15
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Detective No. 27 posted:I'll bite. Name some ways. I wanna hear this. Goku can't beat Cell and dies, so Gohan has to step up and save the Earth even though, unlike his dad, he really doesn't like fighting except out of necessity to protect people. He now bears the burden of being the strongest person on Earth, and thus, it's savior. But then eventually Goku comes back because he's way too popular to stay dead and Gohan gets pushed back to the sidelines, but it's a good ending for him because, as the new movies/Super and even GT show, he's much happier being a regular smart guy with a nice family. Dick doesn't have Bruce's driving dedication, the singular purpose of his life on an atomic level. Bruce needs needs to be Batman, just like Goku loves nothing more than fighting and chafes under a normal life. Dick will put on the cowl-or his Robin or Nightwing costume-for the sake of others, but at the end of the day, he's just a laid back casual dude like Gohan. If complete and utter world peace broke out, an unparalleled utopia for all humans, Bruce would probably build a space ship and go fight space crime(that one is free, DC). Because like Goku's one track obsessive need for fighting, being Batman is a must for Bruce-it's even his metaphysical eternal fate every time he dies, according to Whatever Happened to the Cape Crusader. Gohan/Dick will do what they have to when they have to. But ultimately it's better for everyone that the guy who really loving loves the job is around instead. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 06:26
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I can see that comparison. A story where a different universe Batman shows up in the main universe and crashes on Bruce's couch would be neat.
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Aug 15, 2016 06:38
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I will add that GMo reading order to the OP. I disagree that Final Crisis is in any way required reading for GMo's Batman stories, though, all you need is the knowledge that the Justice League was fighting Darkseid, which happens every month or so, and Batman shot him, but Darkseid blasted him with the Omega Sanction and everyone thinks Batman is dead now. Batman & Robin proceeds under the assumption that he's dead and Return of Bruce Wayne will gradually reveal what actually happened to him. The rest of FC might enrich these events but honestly it is just as likely to chase somebody away from superhero comics forever.
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Aug 15, 2016 12:56
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If Gotham were to suddenly one day be completely crime free in a permanent fashion, I can't tell if Batman would take that as proof that he works and move to Metropolis or something or if he would just quit forever. Probably the former, but I feel like there's room for the latter. Also DC should absolutely find a way to return Dick to the cowl.
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Aug 15, 2016 14:13
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It might be a bit early to tell but what's the most new reader friendly Bat book in Rebirth? I've read a good number of the classics (Year One, Long Halloween, Serious House, The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns) but for me I've always found the rogues more interesting than Batman but with the reboots I'm thinking of giving the character another go.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:39
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Detective Comics, followed by All-Star Batman, going by that criteria. Assuming you know who Kate Kane and Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain are, for Detective.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:47
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Final Crisis isn't that loving complicated, geez you guys.
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Aug 15, 2016 15:48
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SonicRulez posted:If Gotham were to suddenly one day be completely crime free in a permanent fashion, I can't tell if Batman would take that as proof that he works and move to Metropolis or something or if he would just quit forever. 
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Aug 15, 2016 15:49
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Anime_Otaku posted:It might be a bit early to tell but what's the most new reader friendly Bat book in Rebirth? I've read a good number of the classics (Year One, Long Halloween, Serious House, The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns) but for me I've always found the rogues more interesting than Batman but with the reboots I'm thinking of giving the character another go. I would agree with Toxxupation that Detective followed by All Star is your best bet but that's mostly because they're both better than the main Batman book is right now. All three of them start with the assumption that you know who Batman is and little else. Detective has a large cast bit starts with a pretty concise introduction to all of them so even if you don't know who Batwoman is it's pretty easy to jump in and run with the story. I guess Batman is using Hugo Strange and Psycho Pirate, those are kind of obscure characters. Also if you like the rogues gallery Clayface is on Batman's team in Detective and All Star heavily involves Two Face so both of those are great.
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Aug 15, 2016 16:51
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I would argue between Hugo Strange, Psycho Pirate, Lark, and it very clearly being written in the context of Rebirth (on top of it eventually addressing the three Jokers thing), main Batman is kinda hard to grasp if you're not up on the canon. I think it's really good, though.
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Aug 15, 2016 17:03
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Wait, so the book with the shapeshifter and the lady raised as an assassin without language is using an emotion-alterer and a psych professional as its villains? Gosh there's no way this will turn into a story about the nature of identity and the construction of self!!!!!
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Aug 16, 2016 04:46
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Aug 16, 2016 05:01
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Squizzle posted:Wait, so the book with the shapeshifter and the lady raised as an assassin without language quote:using an emotion-alterer and a psych professional as its villains
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Aug 16, 2016 05:19
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aww nertz
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Aug 16, 2016 05:22
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That Mask is so so terrible.
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Aug 16, 2016 06:17
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Squizzle posted:Wait, so the book with the shapeshifter and the lady raised as an assassin without language is using an emotion-alterer and a psych professional as its villains? Gosh there's no way this will turn into a story about the nature of identity and the construction of self!!!!! Squizzle for editor of the Bat books. I'm really enjoying the Batman books for the first time since Morrison left, but Squiz dog fell backwards into some poo poo.
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Aug 16, 2016 07:31
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Is that Nu-Bane on the right?
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Aug 16, 2016 14:28
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Castor Poe posted:Is that Nu-Bane on the right? Black Mask.
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Aug 16, 2016 14:39
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Really don't get how anyone could have looked at that mask and thought. Yeah that is better then an Ebony Skull.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:22
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http://www.multiversitycomics.com/previews/exclusive-batman-5/
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Aug 16, 2016 22:47
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I wish Bruce would grow a mustache for some kind of continuity between him and Alfred.
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Aug 16, 2016 23:27
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Madkal posted:I wish Bruce would grow a mustache for some kind of continuity between him and Alfred.  ?
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Aug 17, 2016 02:09
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Oh jeez the rest of that preview reads awfully. Way to speak ill of the dead, Alfred! I guess that in the New 52 Crime Alley was always called that even before the Waynes took that fateful stroll.
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Aug 17, 2016 12:48
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The narration boxes at the end of this issue are certainly intriguing. e: Though I'm sure it's some Psycho Pirate delusion and not actually setting up the future. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Aug 17, 2016 |
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Aug 17, 2016 12:58
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Yvonmukluk posted:Oh jeez the rest of that preview reads awfully. Way to speak ill of the dead, Alfred! I guess that in the New 52 Crime Alley was always called that even before the Waynes took that fateful stroll. Walking through Crime Alley after a movie is the rich Gotham citizen's version of a favela tour.
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Aug 17, 2016 17:49
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So did Batman #5 just end with Gotham Girl stating that she and Duke eventually get married? Because drat did King ship those two off pretty quickly.
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Aug 18, 2016 01:31
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Roth posted:So did Batman #5 just end with Gotham Girl stating that she and Duke eventually get married? Because drat did King ship those two off pretty quickly. Seems like it! Also looks like Batman's gonna die again. Unless of course Teenage Fansub posted:The narration boxes at the end of this issue are certainly intriguing.
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Aug 18, 2016 02:41
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Teenage Fansub posted:The narration boxes at the end of this issue are certainly intriguing. Either way, I kind of like it. This issue had some solid moments, particularly the Alfred thing, but overall it doesn't really feel like the Gotham characters have been built up enough for there to be any real emotional payoff. The whole thing has felt a bit rushed, so I hope he's just setting something else up. I am curious what it will feel like to do a full re-read, I may do that before issue 6.
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Aug 18, 2016 04:59
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Which would be the more correct title: "Batman '66 Beyond" or "Batman Beyond '66"?
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Aug 18, 2016 06:14
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Bongo Bill posted:Which would be the more correct title: "Batman '66 Beyond" or "Batman Beyond '66"? It depends. Batman '66 Beyond would be a sequel to Batman '66, while Batman Beyond '66 would be Batman Beyond done in the '66 style.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:17
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WickedHate posted:It depends. Batman '66 Beyond would be a sequel to Batman '66, while Batman Beyond '66 would be Batman Beyond done in the '66 style. It would be both, of course.
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Aug 18, 2016 06:18
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Alfred is the best Batman.
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Aug 18, 2016 14:39
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