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Travis343 posted:
Look man, is fine if you don't like Jason or RHATO but don't be a dick and throw poo poo at Soy's excellent work on the series. Besides, RHATO isn't even considered a Batman book anyways 
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Aug 13, 2016 20:50
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WickedHate posted:He's wearing a bat on his chest, man. Tell that to DC. That is why RHATO isn't being edited by Doyle's group. And chances are, Damian's TT and Supersons also will be under a different editorial office.
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Aug 13, 2016 21:05
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Travis343 posted:Wonder Woman is under Doyle's group now, by your logic I should put Wonder Woman in the OP. I don't give a poo poo who's editing what book, Jason and Damian are Batman characters. Wonder Woman is Rucka's sandbox now. And hey, I don't care anyway but seeing you're so against Red Hood I thought you would be happy for the conversation about the book to remain in the General DC thread but whatever CharlestheHammer posted:Who is Soy Filipino artist that began his career at Marvel drawing some issues of Captain Marvel before moving to DC and doing the art for Mortal Kombat X, Batman Beyond, Batman Arkham Knight: Genesis and a couple of issues on Red Hood/Arsenal https://twitter.com/Newsarama/status/764229947426824192 He's currently helming RHATO and is delivering an excepcionally gorgeous art.   Although truth be told, it woudln't be the same without Veronica Gandini's excellent colors  If any of you want to see more samples of his work. This is his Devianart account http://nefar007.deviantart.com/
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Aug 13, 2016 21:30
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Travis343 posted:e: Like for real dude there's got to be some Batman stories you like aside from fuckin Red Hood. Can you please just chill for a second and post about Batman The Killing Joke, Knightfall, KnightQuest, Knight's End, that story where they raise the possibility of Bane being Bruce's half brother, Batman Year One, Batman: Anarchy, Batman: Earth One. A shitton of Elseworlds. Out of recent stuff, the only thing I've really enjoyed is Pak's Batman Superman. And that only when it was Bruce, not the Gordon's nonsense.
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Aug 13, 2016 21:47
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Travis343 posted:Year One is good though. Zero Year went by far too long and as usual, Snyder failed to stick the landing. It is a decent story but no way is better than Year One.
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Aug 13, 2016 22:30
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Travis343 posted:It's also incredibly boring to talk about the same three Batman stories since 1988, so I would seriously, 100% rather hear about those weird 80s-90s comics you love. Tell me about the poo poo you're uniquely passionate about. Everybody knows about Frank Miller's stuff, not everybody knows how great Batman/Grendel was. Let's talk about that stuff instead. Unless is Red Hood 
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Aug 13, 2016 23:57
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I love Scalera's variants 
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Aug 14, 2016 10:34
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Aug 16, 2016 05:01
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Then is wrong because Batfleck should be on the top and Adam West at the bottom. 
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Aug 20, 2016 21:59
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Dacap posted:Yeah, I've always thought the bigger question is "why hasn't the state given Joker the death penalty?" Nope. He simply vanishes in the movie but in the novelization is stated no one really knows what happened to him. quote:“The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumour had it, was locked away as Arkham’s sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really even sure. Not even Selina” http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/07/26/joker-mentioned-in-dark-knight-rises-novel
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Sep 12, 2016 21:22
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The Detective Issue was mediocre and Tim's fate stupid. However, there's at least one good thing to come out of this. The final issue of his Teen Titans is a memorial issue. With everyone in the team getting together to paid their respects and give their last goodbye to their fearless leader. Bedard did a great job to show what Tim meant to the kids and I thought it was nice he used Tim's disappearance to break up this iteration of the Titans and leave them go their separate ways until they're reunited again by Damian. Speaking of Damian, I loved the final panel of the book. Damian in the batcave looking in a respectful silence the glass cabinet holding Tim's Red Robin costume, not the lame pseudo Robin of Tynion but the true Red Robin costume. Is a really powerful moment that dovetails nicely into Damian's Titans.
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Sep 15, 2016 03:55
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Roth posted:It would be meaningful if it ever felt like Tim was actually friends with anybody on the Teen Titans. The only I felt it wasn't properly developed the friendship was with the new Power Girl and maybe Raven. All the others were well developed over time, Bunker in particular. Then again, Bunker was simply the best loving character in the whole series.
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Sep 15, 2016 04:53
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:I haven't read Endgame since it came out but I do remember that it implied this Joker had lived for centuries, maybe through multiple Lazarus Pit baths. Nah, Joker found a pond filled with the same chemical that gives the pits their regenerative properties. That is how he grew his face back.
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Sep 15, 2016 23:21
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Gaz-L posted:Except it's like the 3rd thing you learn about Batman after: -Dresses like bat That one depends on what is your frame of reference for the character since its status as a "hard rule" is relatively recent. Movie Batmen have never shied away of using guns or killing and during most of the bronze age Bruce was quite flippant regarding the use of lethal force on his foes. A tale in particular that stood to me from that period was O'neil's Venom where Bruce has no qualms to use a couple of islanders as live bait for sharks or causing the vilian of the story to die via drug overdose. And let's not forget that he needed of Superman talking him down of killing the Joker during Death of the Family.
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Sep 16, 2016 18:48
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Chaos Hippy posted:60+ years ago is not relatively recent in a medium that has only really been around for 80-odd years. One or two demonstrably bad stories published during that period do not invalidate the dominant narrative. Batman is actively and vocally opposed to killing, and has been for as long as comics have had any semblance of continuity. If that were not the case, your favourite lovely character wouldn't have been brought back from the dead to fill the "DC's lame Punisher knockoff" niche. More like 20 years or so. That is exactly my point. The character has been around for more than 75 years and only in the last period of those, the no killing rule has been really important. I'd say tha came in the heels of Jean Paul's tenure as Batman. Moreover, for the bulk of the people that grew with Burton's movies. They don't see Batffleck's actions as a big deal.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:21
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Travis343 posted:You can say that if you want, but you'd be wrong. The days of "A fitting end for his lot!" kill crazy pulp hero were very shortlived. Obviously in the days of the Comics Code, nobody in tights was killing their opponents, but somewhere in that period it became a core part of Batman. It's definitely not a thing that's only happened for like 20 years. As a focus of his character it is. How much relevance is given changes accordingly to the period. quote:And yes I grew up on Burton's Batman, I know it's a very inaccurate portrayal of the character even though it's one of my favorite movies. Comic book movies have changed a huge amount since 1989. You can be faithful to the characters now and trust audiences to follow you. Batfleck was a huge step back in the quality of Batman in every way except visually. Nah, Batfleck was the best Batman on cinema by a country mile. It combines perfectly comic book silliness with the pseudo realism of the DCEU. But more than anything, it humanized him as a very flawed man being overwhelmed by the reality of the world he belongs an that thanks to his meeting with Superman founds hope again. Bale was good, but his take was very differently. One that fit the story Nolan was interested on tell but nothing more.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:56
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Marin Karin posted:That intro with Bane was phenomenal. I showed it to some people who aren't currently reading Bats and it won them over pretty hard. I'm really excited for the rest of this arc to play out. Shame that we're back to weak willed, drug addict Bane instead of the awesome strategist and steel willed man that beat his Venom addiction by himself.
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Oct 20, 2016 05:59
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Also I am of the opinion that Bane is a villain who only works once, like Doomsday. He was created to serve a purpose and every subsequent appearance since that purpose was fulfilled is almost always just a series of callbacks because he's a lethally crippled character. So it's with all that bring said and a testament to the strength of King's writing how personally invested I am in his Bane, because basically every other post-Nightfall Bane appearance has no there there. No, the problem with Bane is that far too few writers actually bother to use him at his full potential and instead are satisfied to continue retreading the same plot beats (Venom Addiction, obsession with Batman, breaking spines) again and again and again Vengeance of Bane II and particularly Scott Beatty's work with Bane (and to lesser degree Simone's Secret Six) prove Bane has potential to stand on his own, as long he isn't reduced to a mere thug. And while certainly is too soon to judge, King's previous work in Batman and the current direction he's taking with the "I am Bane" storyline, doesn't make me think he will be able to make the character justice.
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Oct 20, 2016 07:49
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ImpAtom posted:Eh. Bane is no different than a dime a dozen characters where their gimmick is "super talented at a ton of things crime lord!" He is, for good or ill, defined by his venom addiction and the time he broke Batman's back and he'll never escape from that barring some writer doing a complete redefining of the character in a way that is not only well written but memorable enough to take Bane away from being Drug Luchadore Man. See, this is the kind of narrow minded and near sighted mentality that hinders the potential of every character. That Bane is known by some things doesn't mean that is all what he is. And again, Beatty did in fact re imagined the character during the Tabula Rasa and Veritas Liberat story lines. Anarky is other character that is pigeon holed into the same roles again and again simply because mediocre writers can't be arsed to take advantage of his whole character. Or as Roderick T. Long so eloquently described quote:Thesis: Anarky is too interesting a character not to write about.
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Oct 21, 2016 06:33
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purple death ray posted:King's Bane has been in one scene and he's managed to be both incredibly sympathetic and vulnerable and completely terrifying at the same time. I feel bad for yall if you're not on board at this point. That is the problem. King is simply retreading again the characterization Bane had during Knightfall instead of moving forward with him. Plus, there are elements on his take that are at odds with Bane's character: the fact he need the Psycho Pirate's help when one of the core elements of Bane is that he survived Santa Prisca and became Batman's equal out of sheer willpower. And the fact Bane is ruling Santa Prisca. Bane most ardent wish was to leave Santa Prisca so it makes no sense he's ruling it now. Honestly, I found more engaging the way Snyder used Bane in two pages back on Talon than King's.
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Oct 21, 2016 16:36
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ImpAtom posted:Sure it does. We're talking about a comic character here. They are not allowed to change, grow or evolve and will forever retreat back to the stories they are well known for unless someone does enough to completely and utterly redefine them. (And probably not even then. Barbara Gordon is Batgirl again after all despite Oracle being one of the most through reinventions of a character ever.) So? That isn't an excuse for writers to half rear end their way around the character. Hell, just look at Lobdell and RHATO Rebirth. Despite the whole setting being heavily inspired by UTRH it didn't ignored all the work put on Jason's character for the last five years (at the contrary, it used it as foundation to further develop Jason's character) and it gave its own original spin to the concept. Same with Barbara and Batgirl. So the only reason Bane is stuck as a junkie obsessed with Batman is due lovely writers that rather perpetuate the idea than putting an actual effort on it.
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Oct 21, 2016 17:29
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ImpAtom posted:He's stuck that way because writers can't come up with anything better for him to do that isn't already a niche filled by other villains anyway. It's a problem a lot of villains have. Villains (especially the villains who focus around a single hero) tend to be remarkably similar because they are reflections or counterparts to the hero. Batman has dozens of smart skilled abnormally talented scary crime bosses who are largely defined by their specific gimmick. I disagree. Bane is so much more than a mere "smart skilled abnormally talented scary crime bosses who are largely defined by their specific gimmick".    Hell, Bane wasn't even interested on running Gotham's crime after Knightfall.
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Oct 21, 2016 18:19
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purple death ray posted:If you ask me Bane has the potential to be DC's Dr. Doom. I don't think many writers see that potential. But in the same way that Dr Doom will always be defined by "RICHAAAAARDS" Bane will always be defined by that time he broke Batman's spine. Trying to argue against that is futile. And you can write great stories even with that Bane, who is kind of obsessed with Batman. I would rather keep it that way, just like a Doom who isn't obsessed with Reed Richards would probably feel kind of wrong. But I don't really read Marvel so probably that's already happened, anyway. You're right, it could come but what I've seen of Bane since the N52 until now doesn't fill me with confidence about that possibility coming. And honestly, the thing I'd rather want is for Bane to ditch the Venom entirely how he did it before. But again, the odds of that happening are minuscule.
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Oct 21, 2016 18:46
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And as expected, Batman continues to be offensively mediocre. But I admit I was wrong with the bit about King not going for a clean Bane. Although since is was essentially cheating by using the Psycho Pirate's powers I doubt it will last. Man, I miss when Bruce and Bane were actually able to have a rational conversation without devolving into "I'll break you" threats.
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Nov 2, 2016 18:40
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Actually Batman loving ruled and was probably the best issue so far. Hardly an accomplishement given how lovely King's run has been so far.
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Nov 2, 2016 22:43
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Roth posted:How have you made it 10 issues into a run you've hated that much? I drop things way faster than that. I skipped everything after issue 3 and only picked this one for Bane.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:04
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There are better ways to achieve that though.
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Dec 9, 2016 05:11
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Batman is so bad. And just like I expected, King can't write Bane for poo poo. At this point it would be merciful if Bane simply stayed in the limbo instead of making him this much of a venom addicted idiot.
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Dec 21, 2016 17:33
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ElNarez posted:plus I feel like "making him this much of a venom-addicted idiot", when the argument he makes in the issue is that venom was bad for him and made his problems worse, is really mischaracterizing what King et al. are doing That is exactly the problem. In his quest to make his story this "deep, psychological analysis" of Batman's psyche he's ignoring all the stuff that made Bane what it was. Is the exact same problem that happened with Morrison when he used Jason during B&R, he's cherry picking elements of the character as is convenient to move forward his plot. Characterization or research be damned. The kicker is how the fallout of Batman's actions are at odds with the frankly, asshollish way that King is writing Bruce. Plus, you know, one of Bane's defining characteristics with his relation with Bruce is the respect they have for each other. Something completely missing on King's take. Is kind of amazing how writers are still struggling to write a good Bane when it was perfectly defined on his first mayor appearance after Knightfall  
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Dec 21, 2016 19:40
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purple death ray posted:Yeah because none of that poo poo happened since the New 52 unless a writer specifically references it. Or it did, but it was stolen by Dr. Manhattan, depending on what Geoff Johns believes on any given day. Ironic, given Rebirth is all about going back to the pre N52 versions.
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Dec 21, 2016 19:57
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pubic works project posted:No I'm pretty sure it's about incorporating pre-N52 elements into the current iteration of the DC universe, ie. Wally coming back, Oliver and Dinah getting together, pre-N52 Clark and Lois, etc. The point still stands, there's nothing stopping King from introducing a clean Bane.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:28
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purple death ray posted:Well that's not the story he's writing. There's nothing stopping him from introducing an addicted Bane either. You're allowed to not like a story but man you come off like DC should be writing comics just for your tastes sometimes. Not different than all the people who didn't like the N52 I guess
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Dec 21, 2016 20:41
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pubic works project posted:Once an addict, always an addict. Who's to say that he wasn't slipped some Venom somewhere in the past behind the scenes and now he's addicted all over again? Show it then
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Dec 21, 2016 21:26
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purple death ray posted:I can't believe Tom King revealed Banes real name is Johnny Drugmuscles, hosed up if you ask me 
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Dec 23, 2016 17:50
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Lurdiak posted:Isn't that just because he minimizes the dumb lines and weird yellow outline to the bat-symbol as much as possible without just removing them? Like, he draws a good Bat-costume, then begrudgingly adds a couple details to make it technically the new costume. That would be weird given Capullo designed the new costume himself.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:24
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http://dccomicsnews.com/2017/02/23/exclusive-interview-graham-nolan-returns-to-dcn-to-talk-bane-conquest/quote:DCN: What was it that finally brought you and Chuck back to the world of Bane? How did the opportunity come about?  quote:DCN: Will Bane’s addiction to Venom be addressed here or is it pushed to the side to give us the Bane we all know and love? 
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Feb 26, 2017 17:25
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McCloud posted:I don't see it. I mean, him being a ruthless tactician is kinda there in his history, but it's vastly overshadowed by him being a dumb meathead on steroids. At best I can buy that he can come up with a cunning plan when brute forcing poo poo isn't an option, but comparing him to Dr Doom? The 2nd smartest man in marvel universe? Bane can barely outsmart Ace the Bathog, he's not even the smartest C-lister of Batmans rogues gallery, let alone the a-listers, and comparing him to the likes of Luthor is laughable. Not really, that was only true for his appearances on other media. The comics consistently depicted him as being if not a downright genius, as a very, very smart man. The best examples of this are the stories written by Doug Moench on Gotham Knights: Tabula Rasa and Veritas Liberat. Even when Simone dumbed him down a bit for Secret Six, it was mostly making him socially incompetent rather than an idiot. Even during the N52 they tried to make him a master tactician (aside of Finch's bullshit) but they failed to deliver. Aside of those instances, one of Bane's best uses outside the comics was during Arkham Origins...besides the ending derailed him to turn him on the hulking idiot from Asylum of course.
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Feb 26, 2017 22:42
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ImpAtom posted:"What if Bane was really smart and cool and awesome" wouldn't be Dr. Doom. To be a true character in that mold you need to have weaknesses as big as your strengths. To some degree this is what original Knightfall Bane was. He was terrifying, intelligent, capable, and defeated Batman both mentally and physically. (Something that tends to get overlooked in favor of He BROKE the BAT). Yet he was also crippled by his addiction and his weaknesses. Removing those weaknesses makes him less interesting and less meaningful because he just becomes Strong Smart Guy #932. Again, this is a pretty narrow view of the character. Bane still had weaknesses after kicking off the Venom habit in the shape of his need to belong somewhere that is why he agreed to work with Ra's during Legacy or why he latched at the idea of being Thomas' illegitimate son during Tabula Rasa. For all his power and intelligence, Bane was being crushed by the solitude he lived in. Even when he finally found a place to belong with the Secret Six, Simone crippled him with a pretty severe social ineptitude. So no, saying that he can't have anything else but his venom addiction is willingly ignoring his full potential. quote:You can't do the exact same Bane story over and over again but part of what you need to tell a Bane story is his weaknesses. Venom and his addiction to it is part of it and if you remove Venom you can't remove Bane's addictive personality and ability to self-sabotage because that's an important element of what defines Bane. He is someone who can beat Batman but also someone who can't defeat himself. The reason why material keeps going back to Bane having Venom or a Venom-alike is because it provides a simple glowing green visual for his true flaw. You can remove it but not without replacing it. And yet Bane went to be a successful character for more than a decade without using Venom. quote:To some degree Bane is defined by his addiction to power. This is again clear in Knightfall more than anywhere else where he wants strength, he wants respect, he wants women, he wants all these things because the are power. He wants to beat the Batman as a symbol of his power. If you want to set Bane up as a strong figure it has to be a figure who desires strength to the point of it being a weakness. He should be excessive in a way that is at once terrifying and crippling, as much as the Riddler leaving clues or Lex Luthor hyper-focusing on Superman. Bane was never addicted to the power. Even despite beating Bruce after Knightfall he did nothing more than laze around on his penthouse until Jean Paul's arrival. The reason Bane challenged Bruce was born from a childlike fantasy of deserving everything in the world due his incredibly lovely upbringing (something that King is making even more lovely just because)
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Feb 27, 2017 23:45
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Pity that every single huge, "everything changes now" storyline done by Snyder has failed hard to have satisfactory conclusions.
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Mar 20, 2017 21:54
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Massive delays aside, DK3 was a pretty enjoyable read. This final issue in particular shows that Miller still got it in him, then again Last Crusade was also pretty darn good as well. That said, I'm more impressed by the way Miller's artwork improved by leap and bounds over the course of this series.  
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Jun 8, 2017 04:59
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